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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:40 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
Ok, not much has happened yet to change things since my previous post, except for DJ's post. I feel somewhat better about him, though I'll be expecting more from him before day's end and then tomorrow. I'm concerned by the lack of the promised content from dimochka and the lack of anything from Madge since before the weekend.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:41 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
EBWOP:

Vote Madge

Maybe this will make clear my concern. I'll review this vote again if/when Madge produces some useful content.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:36 pm UTC
by mpolo
I had an unexpectedly overfilled day today. I am going to bed, and will post reads tomorrow.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:32 pm UTC
by flicky1991
I was going through all the players and kind of decided the ones I found most suspicious were Dj and Madge (general lurking), followed by dimochka for never sufficiently answering my questions about his apparent contradiction regarding the conclusions he can draw from his role.

And then I saw this:
Djehutynakht wrote:But I'm sort of leaning town toward Dimochka, Flicky (who seems to be doing the whole 'innocently new to this' thing), and Madge (I can respect the whole no-D1 thing).
His most likely candidates for town are the people I find most suspicious, myself excepted. That's another strike against him on top of the lurking, in my eyes.

If we look at it assuming Dj is town, the fact that he's come up with different reads than everyone else isn't necessarily wrong, and I can understand ignoring lurking as a point against someone when you've posted the least out of everyone (two posts total since day one started...)

Whereas if we consider the situation where he's scum... from my point of view I would be a red herring in his post to avoid simply naming the two other scum as his most likely town reads. I'm definitely not saying "I think these three are the mafia" (I'm not even assuming there are three mafia, obviously), but the fact that his reads are almost the complete opposite of my own jumped out at me as soon as I looked at his list.

For reference, I was reading Sabrar as the most likely townie of all of us, which is also the opposite of what Dj was seeing. If Sabrar's scum then he's incredibly good at it, as he's been contributing the most and hasn't said anything that looks suspicious at all from what I can see.

FoS: Djehutynakht (Can you give more explanation as to why you've ordered the players the way you have? What's Dimochka done that's made him more townie than other big contributors like Sabrar or mpolo? Why are Madge and I, the biggest lurkers other than yourself as far as I can see, so high on your list?)
FoS: dimochka (Less strong than on Djehutynakht, but my earlier questioning of you + finding you at the top of DJ's list makes me eager to hear a bit more from you. Why were you so quick to suggest that mafia might kill their own pen pals, especially given that your later elaboration contradicts that?)

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:51 pm UTC
by moody7277
So, based from my votables list, DJ is on for lack of content that he should have a chance to correct, jimbob was on for a one-time event that needs corroboration before acting on, while Madge was more of a gestalt feel. emlightened comes in a close second.

Vote: Madge

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:23 am UTC
by emlightened
I just realised that except for a possible post a couple of hours before deadline, this is my last post for the day, so I need to decide who to vote. Sorry for how short the reads are, but it's late and I want to sleep.

Sabrar - I can't discern anything scummy about him. He makes good reads posts, and good suggestions. Pretty townie(, or, if I didn't use metas, very townie).
jimbobmacdoodle - Has gone in-depth on each player with sound opinions and statements on what he would do. Asked about what people's strategies would probably be if they were scum, but this seems fine. Townie.
flicky1991 - Not got very original positions on some posts, but acknowledges this and also makes effort to amend it. No (recent) experience. Fairly townie.
Carlington - Seems somewhat paranoind about not trusting watchers/trackers or cop results. Because of how he defends this, I'm saying slightly scummy.
dimochka - Backpeddled on opinion, and hasn't followed up on mentioned explanation. The phrasing of said explanation makes it seem like he's rather sure, and this pings me slightly. Moderately scummy, but I have my doubts.
Djehutynakht - My main point against him before was lurking, and now that he's posted more, he's not really coming up as scum for me. Neutral-townie.
mpolo - Has been helping make discussion, but hasn't actually participated himself, or really provided any reads. Neutral.
moody7277 - NL response is claimed consistent with meta, and the reads and other content are fine. Fairly townie.
Madge - Very little content, but I'd prefer to let her live into D2 than do a lurker-lynch. Neutral.

Until dimo comes back with reasoning, I'll keep my vote where it is.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:27 am UTC
by dimochka
sorry for my absence, i was in vegas for the last class-wide social event of my MBA and had no time as well as terrible reception (and no free internet). I'll reply to whatever was said (plus what I promised) in the next hour.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:45 am UTC
by Madge
Argh guys had a packed long weekend owing to RL drama rather than plans I could have anticipated, so sorry about that. (That said I have ended up with a bunch of cynical mafia boyfriend's mum's delicious lasagna in my freezer, and I was happy with who won the Rockhold-Bisping fight, so I feel like I've come out on top).

Responses to questions:

I reckon the game would absolutely do a mafia-mafia pairing, I'm sure Snark just let the chips fall where they may (I keep on thinking mpolo is modding and then get confused when i see him posting about being about to make reads).

An SK might be a good way to balance a 'weak' mafia team, since we've sort of decided that 8/2 is too weak and 7/3 is too strong, so 7/2/1 with SK could balance the mafia faction. Don't think it's likely we'll have one though because I think Snark wants us to be alive and pen-palling as long as possible.

Lovers in a game as small as this would be silly, especially with penpals. With at least 2 kills in the first day/night cycle, there's a 40% chance of hitting a lover (source: I am bad at maths so this is probably not quite right), which would mean that we'd have 3 of 5 penpal pairs broken up, making the whole 'tiwst' kind of kaput. So I'd probably bet that there are no lovers for that reason.

Reads:

Reads are the part I'm worst at and coincidentally are also why mafia likes to keep me alive (pssst mafia, keep me alive, i promise i'm not a cop or anything that's going to destroy you if you let me live).

Sabrar has been weirdly aggressive, but I respect anyone who gives interesting fun content on D1 so I'm not going to push a lynch for that. You might have to answer for it on D2 though. But TBH I think anyone who is as passionate about the outcome of the game as sabrar so early on is probably town.

Respect for emlightened for getting the voting off to a start. Scum would be happy with people just talking and not voting until the last minute since it gives us less time to talk and defend ourselves.

moody - OMGUS :[

Flicky - Flicky quotes a part of DJ's post that I thought was him saying who he wnats to lynch, but flicky interprets it as being a "town box" post. I think it's clear that DJ meant it to be "these are the people I don't like", so your FoS is un-needed. Makes me a bit suspicious of you though, but it's probably a genuine mistake

no vote yet. i'm at work today so I hope to follow this thread a bit more closely than over the weekend.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:16 am UTC
by Djehutynakht
flicky1991 wrote:FoS: Djehutynakht (Can you give more explanation as to why you've ordered the players the way you have? What's Dimochka done that's made him more townie than other big contributors like Sabrar or mpolo? Why are Madge and I, the biggest lurkers other than yourself as far as I can see, so high on your list?)


Madge: For clarification, because I didn't entirely understand your analysis: You, Flicky, Dimochka, kinda Mpolo, etc. are the one's I'm thinking most townieish.

Madge is high on my list because I find her antipathy to D1 to be genuine. Also, I empathize with it, as well as all accusations people get for being quiet on D1. That might not be the most scientific analysis, but in the absence of evidence...

Also, to restate, I don't believe that quiet D1 = scum. In my experience it's been a totally false stereotype that just as often as not particularly talkative scum have utilized to get an easy mislynch D1. I do get Sabrar's concerns about letting lurkers linger; we really should be more active D1. But reticence is a fact that I won't ignore and can't hold against people when it's obvious. If they continue to lurk into D2, I'll accept the argument as more substantive.

You... seem pretty much the new-guy townie sort. I think if you were hiding something you'd be doing a worse job of it.

Mpolo's on my 'not entirely sure' list because I find him hard to read. I have trouble detecting him when he's scum. Ergo I can't say that I feel he's definitely town.

For Sabrar, I've given my reasons.

From Dimochka's posts.. I feel he's townie. His setups ideas are similar to mine. I don't think the whole 'my powers are better...well, different... if my penpal is dead' counts against him; scum would be too cautious to put that forth so early, I think. I feel generally confident I can read him right now as town. It's just a hunch.

Ultimately, no matter how much 'proof' people provide for their suspicions, without a really obvious piece of textual evidence, D1 is mostly decided on what players are kinda feeling. This is what I'm kinda feeling about the crowd so far. I'm so bad at pointing to anyone as scum D1 because really there's nothing to point to.


Aaand... last point: I find there's always at least one I miss. One who I'm not giving as much attention to as the others. And this round that would be emlightened. So I should more closely there.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:23 am UTC
by Madge
Vote: Djehutynakht

Your town list reads like a normal person's scum list, so much so that I thought it was your scum list. I can see why I misinterpted it; I glossed over the word "town" in the phrase "leaning town", so I read it as "I don't have any scum reads, to be completely honest. But I'm sort of leaning [x] toward... ". The actual quote is below:

Djehutynakht wrote:I don't have any scum reads, to be completely honest. But I'm sort of leaning town toward Dimochka, Flicky (who seems to be doing the whole 'innocently new to this' thing), and Madge (I can respect the whole no-D1 thing). Kinda town-leaning on Mpolo. More neutral on Moody, emlightened, Carlington, Jimbob, and Sabrar.


So yeah, good a reason to vote as any.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:45 am UTC
by Djehutynakht
Well then I have to say that Madge is probably off of my town list.

Of course, OMGUS ultimately wines things up on this decision.

But your vote ultimately comes down to 'well, I read your list wrong and now I look kind of stupid for it'.

I gave my explanation for why I put people where I did. If it doesn't conform to the status quo, well, there's no helping that.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:08 am UTC
by Madge
No, your list was so bad that I read it wrong because that was the only way it made sense to me.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:14 am UTC
by Djehutynakht
Well then I'm just confused.

First, you rate yourself low on a scum list?

Second... Flicky? Really? How's he low on your scum-list. Maybe he's especially good, but he doesn't seem to hard to read as town (or at least non-scum) to me.

Dimochka... okay, fine, I can see that I appear to be in honest disagreement with most people here about that one. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's what I'm picking up.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:16 am UTC
by Djehutynakht
Edited the Flicky section for grammar. I couldn't deal with it.

Djehutynakht should have wrote:Second... Flicky? Really? How's he low on your scum-list? Maybe he's especially good, but he doesn't seem too hard to read as town (or at least non-scum) to me.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:17 am UTC
by Madge
I think it's reasonable for people to put me on their scum list when I didn't post for three days, yes. Your justifications all sounded like justifications for a scum read.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:28 am UTC
by Carlington
I really need to read through again and post proper reads/vote before deadline.
I'm on my way to an appointment, assuming that all goes okay then I'll post in a few hours. Sheer impressions from this page pending a proper read: I want to go and squint a bit at Dj and dimochka, potentially also Madge depending on whether I end up agreeing with Dj or not but I don't have a scummy impression from her.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:21 am UTC
by dimochka
... and I promptly managed to fall asleep. Anyways to my promised responses:

Flicky - that's a really good point. The second post about my role is much closer to the truth. My first post was more so to elicit some responses (especially because I knew that my statement was a half-truth), but I didn't realize that it could give me an avenue to go after my penpal. Now considering at that point not only did I have no knowledge of my pen pal's private thoughts, but also any of the public ones, I wanted to make sure that people realize that this wasn't my goal. For all I know my penpal could be scum, but I have no current knowledge of this. Essentially I didn't think it through and it's my fault. Just to clarify - the ONLY reason I suggested the "kill penpal" part was because I read this and interpreted it further as a way to not only setup someone else's penpal to be killed, but also mine.
Sabrar wrote:It appears to me like dimochka is deliberately setting up a potential mislynch on a townie whose pen pal was killed by scum.

To be fair, my power isn't exactly that great, but the "penpal" version of it is more antitown than protown (but as I said that part is optional).

emlightened pinged me not specifically because of the vote, but more so because of the randomness of it, as well as the quick explanation after (seems to me like there was a need to explain why, too hasty in my opinion). I also don't like how Though to be fair emlightened's first post felt townie to me (regarding the setup info). So my feel for now is neutral.

I don't think that carlington is scum, but I could read him as independent. I'm going back to find why I'm reading this. Possibly the discussion of the setup and spending several posts backing it up (including agreeing with me on the possible multiple kills). Although his last post is a little off, if taken separately. first he agrees with me then he needs to squint further at me? What's changed inbetween those two?

Flicky comes off townie, seems to have a good opinion and analysis (and is making sure to back up his opinions rather than stepping back).

I'm re-reading DJ and Madge now, but wanted to at least get something out there.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:27 am UTC
by Sabrar
dimochka wrote:I also don't like how Though to be fair emlightened's first post felt townie to me (regarding the setup info).

I think there's something missing here.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:44 am UTC
by dimochka
Sabrar wrote:
dimochka wrote:I also don't like how Though to be fair emlightened's first post felt townie to me (regarding the setup info).

I think there's something missing here.

Ugh did I really do that... I was referring to the last two posts by emlightened where he essentially took a safe position on his vote on me (ie. "I do want to note that I didn't actually look in depth at any of the players") and yet then says how the phrasing of my explanations (which hasn't changed between his two posts) pings him. That entire last post feels very careful and safe to me.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:50 am UTC
by flicky1991
Hm, fine, dimochka's explanation doesn't look too bad to me. On that basis, I'll put in:

Vote: Djehutynakht

(PS dim, emlightened is a girl, fyi.)

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:15 am UTC
by dimochka
flicky1991 wrote:(PS dim, emlightened is a girl, fyi.)

Chalk that off to my tiredness once again. I knew that and somehow used the wrong pronoun anyways :( Sorry emlightened!

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:24 am UTC
by Carlington
dimochka, I was only squinting at you to see what was so controversial about your posting that Madge and DJ were voting at each other over it. To be quite frank, I don't really see it. I still think you're town like I did before, and Madge has slid some to scum in my estimation for the amount she blew up about it.

It's hard to pick things D1 on any basis other than "yes, I agree with you, keep saying those good things that I like people to say." Standouts are:
- emlightened's willingness to throw a semi-random vote that far into D1
- flicky's following other people while telling us all how he knows he probably shouldn't follow other people (although this reminds me of babytown!Carlington so he slips through by virtue of fond memories and goodwill to newbies)
- mpolo's focus on Indies and Cult
- dimochka's and emlightened's claims
- Dj's lurking and Madge's quasi-active-lurking

I did like Madge's early discussion of claiming penpal deaths. I also think it's a good idea to claim when our penpals die, as it takes handy claims away from scum late game.

If we're going to lynch the lurker today, then Dj, but otherwise he hasn't given me any strong scum reads. Drawing a different conclusion or disagreeing doesn't make you scum (I typically think scum is more likely to agree with the majority, it seems smarter to go with the crowd). I could also see lynching Madge or emlightened, but I don't have mad scum reads on either of them really. Madge reads the closest I have to scum, and emlightened, if I had to guess, I would guess is an indie of some kind, more likely a survivor than an SK.

At the other end, although I feel like I say this a lot, Sabrar and jimbob are giving me good townie vibes.


Oh! Before I forget, reading back I saw this:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Post summaries:
Carlington...Should not claim pen pal and power role - no reasoning.

I thought my reasoning here would be fairly obvious so I didn't elaborate. I was just following the maxim of not giving scum more information if it can be avoided. If they know who is penpalled with whom, as well as what powers are enhanced by penpals, they can target their kills to tactically cripple some powers in addition to their ability to remove some completely. It lets them have more power over how the game develops, and to create weaknesses suited to a plan, much like trading a knight for a bishop.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:04 am UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
Carlington already said this, but I wanted to point out that is now forming part of my reason for voting Madge: scum are likely to try to blend in with their reads, so Madge's reaction to DJ's reads list looks bad to me. I could definitely see an element of scum wanting to keep things focused on a limited set of people if one or more of them have slipped under the radar.

Other things thar have stood out to me:
Madge wrote:Lovers in a game as small as this would be silly, especially with penpals. With at least 2 kills in the first day/night cycle, there's a 40% chance of hitting a lover (source: I am bad at maths so this is probably not quite right), which would mean that we'd have 3 of 5 penpal pairs broken up, making the whole 'tiwst' kind of kaput. So I'd probably bet that there are no lovers for that reason.
@Madge - Why are you saying there are at least two kills in the first Day/Night cycle?
emlightened wrote:flicky1991 -... No (recent) experience.
@emlightened - Did I miss something? Is flicky not completely new?

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:07 am UTC
by Sabrar
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Madge - Why are you saying there are at least two kills in the first Day/Night cycle?

Lynch + NK? What am I missing?

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:08 am UTC
by Madge
Yeah two kills = lynch + NK. Might have a SK or Vig or similar so it could even be as high as 4, which makes lovers almost impossible to justify.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:26 am UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
D'oh! Forgot about the lynch... I was half hoping it was a slip by SK!Madge or similar.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:02 am UTC
by mpolo
Notes from re-reading (which took longer than I hoped)

Spoiler:
Dimochka: 7/3 favors scum too much, 8/2 too much town. 6/2/1/1 oder 7/2/1. Relation of powers? VT makes little sense. Power is less useful with PP alive. Clarification of power statement. No indications of indies in role, prob. SK and survivor. NL bad idea D1 or D2. emlightened looking scummy. Comment about power was a half-truth. Power not great, PP version could be anti-town. a couple of reads. Emlightened seems to be hedging.

sabrar: not guessing numbers, powers prob. unrelated. Wary of pure probability arguments. Don't claim penpal. When is a claim good. Scum will prob. kill town-town-pp first. Doesn't like dimochka's claim – some role-fishing, corrects a number thing with Dje. Commentary about No Lynch (misread by myself and moody). Feels he has been misrepresented. Hopes that Nightkills are limited. Some PP powers may be "additional" powers. Getting ready to vote. Understands pressure on dimochka, but disagrees. Votes Carlington for downplaying scum abilities. Flicky's "mee too" posts are prob. just newbie. Spoilered argument for early NL. Emlightened looks scummy for preemptive defence. Don't have the info to give a scum strategy, assumes scum has daychat. Skeptical of DJs promises, enlightened is most likely scum.

Madge: Scum will keep their penpals alive. No cult. Don't claim PP while alive, perhaps when dead. Scum may have penpal related weapons against town. Hates D1. No idea how to improve it. M-M PP is possible. SK might balance a small mafia. A few reads. Emlightened gets town points for voting first. Town list looks like a scum list.

emlightened: Penpal claim doesn't help scum too much. Some setup from role PM. Waiting to reveal this. Utility of power greater when PP alive. Indies are SK and survivor. Semi-RV on dimochka. Votes based more on memory/feelings at this point. Last post, probably. Leaves vote on dimochka for backpeddling.

Carlington. Likely 7/2/1, 6/2/2 likely too chaotic. No claims at the moment. Probably SK, but there is also some town kill, prob. Comments about redirectors, godfathers. SK is likely because of town powers. As scum would destroy town-town PP pairs. Summary of reads.

jimbob: asks about reveal of penpals, sensible claim advice, sometimes claiming dead penpal is reasaonable. 6/2/1/1 (one indie is anti-town). Understands Sabrar's concern about dimochka. Two not particularly anti-town indies, like survivor or lyncher/traitor. FoS DJ and Madge. Feeling somewhat beter about DJ, votes Madge. Madge's attacking DJ for not agreeing with everyone is odd.

moody7277: 7/3 possible with good power roles. Then at least one townie has a scum PP. Likely no VT. Tick against Sabrar for NL discussion. Indies are survivor, poss. lyncher. reads list with some "votables". Votes Madge for Gestalt feeling.

flicky1991: Fairly vague agreeing; there is likely an independent group. Not willing to speculate about possible indies due to inexperience. No one is going to try to kill their PP. Godfather not likely affected by PP. If he were scum, would follow more or less the strategy that he's following. Asks about deadline. Suspicious of Djehuty, especially because his reads are totally out of line with his own. Votes Djehuty.

Djehutynakht: Best to keep PP secret, strategy will evolve, likely two TT und 3 T-NT PP pairs. SK more likely than cult. Leaning toward longer game. Town: dimochka, Flicky, Madge, mpolo Neutral: moody, emlightened, Carlington, jimbob, Sabrar. Watching Sabrar. Quiet D1=/scum. Flicky seems townie. emlightened slipping under radar. Doesn't understand criticism of lists. Doesn't understand Madge's criticism of scum lists.


dimochka: there's been some hemming and hawing about what he's saying about his power. I got a gut feeling that he has some sort of redirector that can affect more people while he has a penpal, but that's probably totally out of the blue and has no real basis in reality. Generally neutral, though a little concerned about apparent flip-flopping about what he is revealing or not revealing.

Sabrar: Seems to be fairly solidly townie. [I noticed why I misread the thing about NL – if you are skimming and read just the first line, it seems like a D1 NL is what is being advocated.]

Madge: As jimbob said, attacking someone for having a different read list than others seems a little weird. Even an incompetent scum knows how to parrot people's opinions while simultaneously trying to cover their buddies. And DJ isn't incompetent… Relatively low content. Her meta is that I always read her as scummy, so I am going to cautiously go with neutral-.

emlightened: A certain cautiousness vibe here. Was early to vote, but I don't see that as any hugely significant proof of good intentions, especially when she couched it with "semi-random". Somewhat scummy.

Carlington: Focuses a lot on godfathers in the scum. Does that mean he is scum or cop? No really big tells either way. Neutral.

jimbobmacdoodle: Good content, generally townie.

moody7277: Somewhat light on content. Neutral.

flicky1991: Very much a newbie vibe. I'm thinking townie newbie at the moment, but if more content doesn't come, I may change my mind…

Djehutynakht: Infrequent long posts. Generally positive contribution. Neutral to slightly townie.

So I have:

TOWN
Sabrar
jimbobmacdoodle
flicky1991
Djehutynakht
Carlington = moody
dimochka = Madge
emlightened
SCUM

Vote: emlightened

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:24 am UTC
by Sabrar
dimochka wrote:My first post was more so to elicit some responses (especially because I knew that my statement was a half-truth), but I didn't realize that it could give me an avenue to go after my penpal.

I believe Town shouldn't resort to gambits that rely on lying/misleading. An example that jumped to my mind was Snark's bait in Smalltown when he tried to get the (non-existent) Druids to claim by pretending it would be beneficial to do so. He was SK in that game, therefore I'm much more hesitant about dimochka right now.

The problem I'm having in the Dj-Madge debate is that I'm prone to second-guessing myself and have a hard time differentiating between a statement that is simply scummy and one that is so scummy no actual scum would say it. I see both sides exhibiting scummy behavior but feel that scum would play better than that and it makes me want to avoid taking sides.
Carlington's content has improved so I will probably vote for emlightened if nothing significant happens.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:55 pm UTC
by Snark
Deadline in ~11 hours.

Votals
Madge - 2 - (jimbobmacdoodle, moody7277)
Djehutynakht - 2 - (Madge, flicky1991)
dimochka - 1 - (emlightened)
emlightened - 1 - (mpolo)

10 alive, 6 to lynch.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:26 pm UTC
by Sabrar
Vote: emlightened

Will revisit in the evening.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:27 pm UTC
by moody7277
Couple of interesting things recently. jimbob's oops with forgetting the lynch counts as a death I am willing to consider an honest slip even with my current opinion of him. The Madge v. DJ thing is a bit meatier. My first read through of it had DJ looking very weird. Madge has some admissions against self-interest and good points about DJ's posts that have my opinion of her swinging away from suspicious.

Unvote

Vote: DJ

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:42 pm UTC
by Carlington
I've left it late enough, I can't hold out for more last minute developments that I'll be asleep for. This is the closest I've got to a scum read, and I don't want to policy lynch if I can avoid it.

Vote: Madge

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:13 pm UTC
by mpolo
I'm not going to be on much closer to deadline than this, which means that I feel like I need to do something to keep random.org out of our lynching.

Of the two frontrunners, I had Madge a couple of spots below Djehutynakht, so I will

Unvote

Vote: Madge

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:34 pm UTC
by Sabrar
Unofficial votals
Madge - 3 - (jimbobmacdoodle, Carlington, mpolo)
Djehutynakht - 3 - (Madge, flicky1991, moody7277)
dimochka - 1 - (emlightened)
emlightened - 1 - (Sabrar)

@mpolo: I'm not sure I understand you, as I see you just set up a random lynch with your vote. Did I make a mistake above?

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:14 pm UTC
by Sabrar
Unvote
Vote: Djehutynakht


So after I took a look at the votals there was one thing that kept nagging me over and over: why wouldn't Dj vote for Madge in the above situation? It would be the correct play whether town or scum. Then I realized that the only way it makes sense is if he's a Jester, waiting for the deadline to put himself in the lead. I think that would explain his whole content nicely. Now if I'm right then the case against Madge doesn't hold up in my opinion therefore with so little time left for actual scumhunting it's better to just lynch Dj as his win condition does not go against ours and with his nightly powers he would just cause trouble. A potential mislynch on Madge could be way worse.

I'll be awake for another 2.5-3 hours, please let me know your thoughts.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:21 pm UTC
by Snark
Deadline in ~5 hours.

Votals
Djehutynakht - 4 - (Madge, flicky1991, moody7277, Sabrar)
Madge - 3 - (jimbobmacdoodle, Carlington, mpolo)
dimochka - 1 - (emlightened)

Not voting: Djehutynakht, dimochka

10 alive, 6 to lynch.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:37 pm UTC
by flicky1991
Dj-as-Jester looks logical enough to me. It would explain why neither of the "suspicious" people I was basing my accusation on had any problem with me going after him.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:58 pm UTC
by dimochka
I assume DJ can confirm this? If so, I would really like to hear from him asap. I'll be here before the deadline (which I believe is in 3 hours or so? Please correct me if i'm wrong). I actually feel somewhat more strongly about a madge lynch over DJ, and I think it would tell us a lot more, though i could see the logic behind DJ trying to cause some kind of issue overnight.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:57 pm UTC
by Djehutynakht
Thinking back to my Jester win in Smalltown Mafia. Such a sweet memory...

Alas, no. I'm not a Jester. I'm honestly not sure where Sabrar got the idea. But I'd rather not die, if it's all the same to you.

Vote: Madge

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:12 pm UTC
by Sabrar
Saw you online multiple times during the day, found it weird that you haven't voted when you're so close to being lynched and there's an easy counterwagon ready. If you're Jester just admit it and we'll let you win.

Unvote