Pen Pals Mafia [D3: Dear Zachary]

For your simulated organized crime needs.

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Carlington
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Carlington » Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:57 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:re Dj and Madge: while your analysis on the end-of-day happenings are spot on, what are your thoughts about how they basically started each other's train when there was no pressure on either of them (apart from general comments about lurking)?

re Jester fixation: this has been mentioned often enough to warrant a response though I think I've explained myself already here and here. It was not a fixation, I thought I was able to connect some dots and make a good read (like e.g. I did in Smalltown) and you would be all amazed how clever I was. I don't even know why you would call it a 'fixation' as I unvoted immediately after Dj denied it.

re role-fishing: could you point out the 'little bits' you perceive as that? Evidently I'm not the most objective judge of this but I just don't see the multitude of such fishing that your comment would imply.

re forgetting about dimochka: did you forget about moody as well?

Re DJ and Madge: You're right, I rushed myself a bit and so only bothered to look at the end of yesterday. Seeing their earlier interactions makes it seem less likely that they're co-aligned, so Madge looks less like a Mafioso to me in light of that.

Re Jester fixation: Maybe fixation is too strong a word, but I did think you went for the idea pretty quickly. That said, I am very familiar with the feeling of thinking I have a very impressive case put together and being very eager to share it, so your explanation there does ring true.

Re role-fishing: While I swear there was more of it before, all I can find now as evidence is you waiting for more claims at the start of D2. Given the apparent state of my memory, and in view of the fact that it doesn't actually seem to have been true, I'm perfectly happy to drop this one.

Re my memory: Apparently I did forget about moody...I'm very clearly on the top of my game. It's 1am, I'll sleep and then come back to this.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby dimochka » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:10 pm UTC

I'm sorry again and i hate having to apologize. I'm reading d2 now, but please see my notes regarding d1 (and the stuff in parentheses are things that jump out at me, for the most part). At this point carlington jumps out at me as the most scummy one; you can just search for his name and see what I meant. but I still need to do d2, hopefully in the next 20-30 min.

Spoiler:
[[D1]]
sabrar - disagrees with my setup suggestion, and thinks powers of pairs have no relation to one another
mpolo - scum may want to keep their penpal alive for better abilities. use penpal ability when possible (i clearly disagree). maybe cult? (unlikely).
madge - scum will keep penpal alive; claim if penpal dies... but may help scum decide whom to kill.
sabrar - ppl may vote to break tie to keep penpal alive if ability is good; dont trust probabilities
madge - dont claim penpal pair while alive
emlightened - claiming penpals wont help scum, they know who arent scum; has some kind of setup details
madge - probably not worth sharing
emlightened - it'll probably be obvious later
carl - setup talk, don't share setup details, don't claim BOTH power and penpal (this stands out to me for some reason, noted for later)
sabrar - examples of when to claim / not claim setup info
jimbob - claim if good info (blah blah everyone has same opinion). claim if penpal about to be lynched and you'll lose strong ability. should claim if penpal dies otherwise scum can kill 2 and claim to have strong ability with one another (good point!)
sabrar - T/T pairs will be targeted first more likely
moody - setup talk. unlikely to have vt. claim penpal-ness if penpal dies (seems very short, would've expected more discussion at this point)
emlightened - penpal power makes regular power more useful
mpolo - power is more flexible with penpal alive
flicky - no strong opinion on claiming power when penpal dies. power not useful if only town/scum, so there's an independent (good, useful)
dj - mafia could be 2-3 ppl, 2 seems small, but could make sense in game of 10. keep penpals secret. figure out if you can trust penpal. MATHS.
sabrar - questions my (somewhat untruthful) claim. i might be setting up mislynch on townie if their scum penpal dies. + rolefishing (good points). but unlikely for scum to claim that out of the blue. may have scum-scum pair.
jimbob - agree with the rolefishing piece. weird that penpal power is better after penpal dies (thats not what i meant but irrelevant for now). may also be set to say that penpal abilities aren't that useful
mpolo - scum-scum pair may have day chat?
me - just digging a bigger hole. as usual.
sabrar - may want to no lynch if 100% sure no SK. if only one death N1, may want to NL N2 (is this still the case? why?)
mpolo - not a fan of sabrar's idea to NL
sabrar - thats why N2, not N1
moody - against NL, especially leaving it open for N1 (that's not what sabrar said)
sabrar - [rant]
madge - anti NL, fos on quiet ppl, don't like D1. mpolo/sabrar are good, dim is good
mpolo - questions for ppl
emlightened - cult unlikely. indies = sk and maybe survivor
carl - 2 mafia 1 indie, maybe 2/2. probably sk. also at least one town kill in game. cop probably too, but scum may have godfather / roleblocker
[im ignoring all the lovers talk for now, that could be a mistake but just my opinion]
sabrar - hopefully not too many kills, so game can last longer. points out that roleblocker doesn't affect cop trustworthiness (good point)
flicky - can be any type of independent (based on what he knows)
carl - thought cop wouldnt know if roleblocked. thinks godfather + goon; godfather power can't be enhanced, or will they lose their godfatherdom if penpal killed (strange that he talks so much about godfather)
sabrar - both scum will have some kind of abilities
moody - writes down SK possibility (why?), thinks we have survivor instead (ie sounds to me like he might be a survivor)
me - against NL
sabrar - should start throwing votes around
eml - votes me semirandom (pick 3 ppl and use rng...). other people were dj for lurking, moody for NL stuff, me for backpedaling
flicky - agrees with eml, my claim is contradictory (yeah it was, i failed in my attempt to weed out scum), but it's not exactly a good strategy for scum either.
jimbob - agree with me looking scummyish. survivor more likely than sk.
sabrar - my backpedaling may not be scummy, let me explain. carl trying to invalidate cop results (again, agree). mpolo's question seem to create activity but aren't actually useful.
carl - pushes back regarding sabrar's scum ability thing. thinks sk is likely. agrees with my setup thoughts. as scum would destroy town/town pairs.
flicky - recognizes that so far he's been mostly reacting to people (ie "me too"). godfather could be normal ability given the non-vanilla game.
eml - backpedaling about voting for me because i said she's scummy (i dont like it)
mpolo - answers questions (i dont think it's useful)
flicky - scum would make claims consistent with roles. kill non-suspicious ppl.
moody - finds jimbob (seems like pre-night discussion), dj (lurky), emlightened (semirandom vote on me), madge (obvious statements) to be candidates to be voted. (seems to be keeping pretty safe, again the survivor thing may be possible)
sabrar - emlightened looks scummy. asking what scum would do is not helpful, circumstancial. assumed scum daychat.
jimbob - carl slightly scummy, i'm leaning town, dj somewhat scummy, eml slightly town (unsure why he thinks though, though i agree), flicky slightly town, madge somewhat scummy for lurking, moody townie, mpolo slightly townie but need player opinions, sabrar townie
dj - didn't think about daychat (so they probably don't have it), thinks 2 T/T pairings or 3 T/T pairings (not helpful), sk more likely that cult. votes leaning towards dim, flicky, madge. mpolo townish (now we know it's because of penpal pair). others neutral. sabrar pings him but not as scum.
sabrar - possibly votes are carl/dj/eml
jimbob - concerned about lack of content from me yet votes madge...
flicky - dj's candidates are exact opposite of flicky's...
moody - vote madge based on previous analysis
eml - keeps vote on me, carl scummy, mpolo and madge neutrals, others on the townie side
madge - keeping opinions really neutral...
dj - backing up his opinions but again seems very cursory.
madge - votes dj for his list
dj - madge is off his town list (just like that??).
madge - is basically saying dj's list is awful (strange that later she was ok with gambit?)
carl - wants to examine dj/me more. maybe madge too.
me - trying to dig myself out. sharing probably more than i should
flicky - ok with my explanation, vote dj
carl - wanted to examine me because dj/madge were fighting each other over it (i dont think they were? that was regarding dj's overall scum list). thinks having different opinions doesnt make one scum, but dj was lurking a lot. sabrar/jimbob townie.
jimbob - madge's reaction to dj looks off.
mpolo - dim neutral (flipflopping re:power), sabrar town, madge neutral, eml scummy, carl neutral, jimbob townie, moody neutral, flicky townie newbie, dj neutral/townie
sabrar - my gambit makes me less likely town. votes eml.
moody - agrees with madge, vote dj
carl - votes madge (why? i dont remember him pointing out her as scum)
sabrar - votes dj because maybe he's jester?
flicky - dj could be jester
dj - not jester, vote madge
sabrar - unvote
eml - for some reason tries to stop me/sabrar from moving the votes in one direction?
[skipping a bit because focused on dj=jester stuff]
eml - (seems to have overreacted, just my personal read)
dj - happy to vote eml, agreed with sabrar and voted madge, and his townie list accuses him of being nontown (well yeah!)
me - try to get some more info from dj
dj - happy to vote eml, puts last minute suspicion on sabrar re:jester discusion, madge is scummy for directing attention at him.
....
DJ lynched. scum.
[[D2]] no kills
sabrar - roleblockers dont claim
me - worried about lack of kills, strange to me since i thought sk is likely. still possible but less likely.
sabrar - doesnt think eml/flicky/madge/moody are dj's scummates
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby dimochka » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:46 pm UTC

D2 notes. I'll do more analysis later today, but at this point carlington still stands out to me as most suspicious, moody seems like a survivor, and i think sabrar might have been the night target. wonder if he also got the feeling that someone tried to gun him down :D for what it's worth I am unable to kill anyone at night (wine and beer and stuff).

i still think we might have an sk and be in some kind of 6/2/2 (6/1/2 now), especially if we have enough powers to stop nightkills somehow.
Spoiler:
[[D2]] no kills
sabrar - roleblockers dont claim
me - worried about lack of kills, strange to me since i thought sk is likely. still possible but less likely.
sabrar - doesnt think eml/flicky/madge/moody are dj's scummates
---------------
flicky - madge + emlightened unlikely mafia based on dj's last post
mpolo - claims dj as penpal, claims weak power now that he's dead (only watch self)
sabrar - notices the exact same things I did about carl, notes that i could have saved dj but would looks suspicious, jimbob is a bit suspicious for thoughts re dj/madge
mpolo - eml not likely to be teamed with dj (then would make 2/3 chance that scum dies in lynch gambit)
flicky - unlikely to have scum/scum pairing based on dj (so mpolo probably not scum)
jimbob - doesnt think madge is scum (because doesnt think both madge and dj were scum), sabrar = odd but not scum, eml - confusing but again not scum probably, i'm not scum for not breaking tie
moody - moody thinks more likely 1 save and no sk (again seems to be hinting that no sk but maybe another independent - so really think he's a survivor!). thinks madge more likely town
carl - vote on madge was due to active lurking vs inactivity. against writing off sk.
madge - indirectly brings up a good point about people being immune to kills (maybe she is immune to kills while her penpal is alive?)
mpolo - thinks reading into dj is going to be a bad idea (i disagree, only towards the end it could be misleading)
jimbob - thinks sabrar is rolefishing, the dj/madge thing couldve been a gambit between two scum.
mpolo - doesnt trust his reads, thinks flicky might be quietly starting a wagon
flicky - wants me and madge to share more. mpolo could be scum.
madge - also thinks mpolo's claim is strange, but her power is more limited without penpal too so probably truthful; townie points to sabrar
sabrar - agrees with mpolo regarding flicky
flicky - madge's post makes him feel better about mpolo
eml - still suspicious of carlington, me and sabrar. thinks sk is still possible.
moody - jimbob scummy, sabrar townie, eml slightly scummy, flicky townie, carl neutral, me independent (?), mpolo slightly townie, madge neutral. votes jimbob.
mpolo - sabrar is townie, same with madge/eml
jimbob - player analysis, with sabrar at top and carl at bottom. (im actually now thinking sabrar was a very likely nightkill target, and someone saved him or for whatever reason he didnt die. i know if i was scum i wouldve at least considered targeting him)
flicky - gist is he sees moody as most scummy, and i'm next for lack of content. (basically tunnelling on mpolo fmpov, don't like it)
moody - eml is probably town, explains his pov
mpolo - claimed power because no longer useful
carl - votes mpolo for focus on cult/indie yesterday (wasnt that much focus imo), lovers role fishing, and for his vote for scummiest of the two top votes rather than scummiest read (i dont know that this would strike me as odd... we need to lynch someone)
sabrar - waiting for content from eml. moody - only summaries. jimbob - good point about mpolo's claim, but questionable list. flicky - likes his content. mpolo - thinks of his as very townie. carl - feels scum, but may be OMGUS. replies to carl's suspicions (dj/madge, jester, rolefishing). and carl forgot about moody?
mpolo - thinks townie for sabrar/flicky, town/indie for madge/eml. jimbob - nitpicking only, moody - don't understand reasoning re:madge so neutral, dim - i didnt vote to break tie, carl - nothing particular but not strong town feeling
sabrar - dont trust PMs, scum more likely to want to talk
mpolo - shares pms (who knows how true it is)
carl - seems to have backpedaled regarding most of his suspicion on sabrar (i might be tunneling so i'd like someone else to read this)
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:49 pm UTC

Quickly going through the posts since my last one.

@flicky - I accused Sabrar of role-fishing because to me any attempts to encourage people to claim this early in the game looks bad. You'll note however that I otherwise have no issue with him, as he is my towniest read at the moment.

@moody - thank you for your response. I think it makes it clearer what you meant.

I'm a little concerned about how quickly Carlington dismissed the D1 wagons as a place to analyse votes. Surely, seeing who voted for who and when, especially given a scum flip, tells us who is more likely scum? Similarly, if anybody flipped between two lead wagons, where they ended up could be significant. Hang on, one of the reasons he is voting for mpolo is because he voted for one of the wagons? Him concluding that emlightened is an indie is a bit of a stretch, given the information. Why couldn't she be town? Also, his reads post says nothing about moody. Possibly an honest mistake, like dimochka, but still... (Just realised that Sabrar picked up on most of these points already - I wrote this paragraph after reading Carlington's reads post, and before re-reading either Sabrar's comments or Carlington's response. I'm leaving it unedited so that people can see my thought process).

@mpolo - why is nit-picking an issue? I've been trying to find things that look bad in people, to see who is likely scum. Most scum players make some bad decisions and so by picking at decisions, I can see if they have good reasoning. By the way, your response on the reason behind your claim is satisfactory, if disappointing due to being a little short-sighted, since there are other things people might do to you that don't involve killing you.

@dimochka - thank you for posting your brief summaries. Would you be able to provide a short digest of what you think about each player, and in particular why you find Carlington scummiest, please? I struggle to see the useful parts of your thoughts in the notes, as there is too much else there.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby dimochka » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:31 pm UTC

OK first of all I just re-read my post and I have no idea why I said that I can't kill anyone (specifically) at night. I know I'm raising attention to something that may be minor, but I want to preempt questions. I have no killing powers at all.

Mpolo - did you have daychat with DJ? NEVERMIND I just realized I have both day and night chat, I thought it was only night. Hey penpal, reply to my last message from the night please :)

quick side note - it seems that people are correlating volume of writing with towniness more than I think they should. just because someone writes a lot does not make them town (but I'd agree that scum would rather say less to avoid saying the wrong thing, and just get on a bandwagon instead).

Now let me try to summarize (knowing that DJ is scum). In order of sign ups:

Sabrar - very outspoken about his ideas. some things that stood out include that scum will target T/T pairs, thinks both scum will have active powers (some disagreement with carlington there, although I think they weren't speaking about the exact same thing), assumed scum have day chat (now this feels a more obvious/likely). I think I've had him as solidly town for a while, so his (scum) read of carlington might have rubbed off on me. I'll list out my thoughts later and it would be great if someone else could evaluate whether it has merit.

emlightened - her very first post made her seem townie (pointing out that she has setup info), but I'm not sure if that ever came up. (Emlightened - do you think we should know now? Or not?) Then there was a shift towards focusing on me (initially it made sense, but not for the reasons she listed, as it looked like a random vote). However the posts towards the end of D1 seemed more genuine than scummy. I did misread DJ though, so I could be wrong here. Based on the exchange between madge/dj, I consider emlightened very likely to be non-scum. Emlightened - Q2 for you - why are sabrar and carlington scummy again? I know why you think I am.

jimbobmacdoodle - I felt his content the first half of D1 was not useful, and he was nitpicking on little things or agreeing with others. he doesn't strike me as scum, but I feel like his reads are way too careful (other than his read on mpolo, which upon further investigation still ended in the town pile). so I'd really like some stronger opinions.

flicky1991 - points out the presence of an independent faction (based on his ability, whatever it is). pointed out my inconsistency (and if he didnt, someone else would've). he pointed at DJ pretty hard. I don't read DJ as having a M/M pair, but that's me. Also seems to have a lot of town reads.

Carlington - initial read gave me the feeling that he might be some kind of vig. I don't like his view on cops and not being able to trust them as much (isn't that most non-straight-vanilla games). His pointing out godfather stuff several times makes me think that he might be a godfather. He then wanted to look at me for some dj/madge thing which I'm still not sure what he means (Carlington - if you can point me to what exactly you meant, that would be great). He tried to save madge BUT I would've done the same so I give this little weight, though his original reasoning did seem a little off. I'm too lazy to go back and see whether Carlington has been against policy lynches in the past. In general little things here and there don't add up, so he's most scummy to me.

mpolo - his claim looks fine to me. Sure it's not very helpful now, but I can see it making sense. Especially looking at his first (non-confirmation) post, he said that we should opt to use penpal power, which aligns with his power now being not great. Since I don't think DJ was his scummate, his vote on madge makes sense to me (but I am watching him). Revealed power when it was probably not the best idea. He's neutralish but given the circumstances I don't think he's scum.

moody7277 - Similar to Jimbob, I found little value in his contributions for the first half of D1. His reads were more useful later on. Votes DJ for the discussion that was happening, now on jimbob. He thinks Survivor more likely than SK, but his coming back to it a number of times makes me feel that he might be a survivor.

Madge - doesn't like d1. one of the first people to point at DJ for actual content. Her switch to emlightened feels more like an independent move though, as well as how she phrases some things in D2. SK or survivor possible here.

One more observation. I REALLY don't think we started with 3 scum. Or we're all really bad at our reads (or scum are really good at their game). Several people have almost everyone as town. So I think 2 scum and 1-2 independent based on that.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Snark » Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:14 am UTC

Deadline in ~2.5 days.

Votals
jimbobmacdoodle - 1 - (moody)
Carlington - 1 - (jimbobmacdoodle)
mpolo - 1 - (Carlington)

9 alive, 5 to lynch.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby mpolo » Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:37 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Quickly going through the posts since my last one.

@mpolo - why is nit-picking an issue? I've been trying to find things that look bad in people, to see who is likely scum. Most scum players make some bad decisions and so by picking at decisions, I can see if they have good reasoning. By the way, your response on the reason behind your claim is satisfactory, if disappointing due to being a little short-sighted, since there are other things people might do to you that don't involve killing you.



A couple of the nits seemed to be so small, that they were more like "let's see if somebody else starts making a big deal of this, and starts a safe wagon for me". However, they could also be classified as, "let's pick at this, and see if the pickee has a wildly inappropriate reaction". So, I'm not saying that you are scummy per se, but that I need to watch to see what kind of nit-picker you are. Essentially, I have four people that I feel I have no read on…
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:26 am UTC

Was in the process of putting together the cases for everyone when I noticed this:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:D'oh! Forgot about the lynch... I was half hoping it was a slip by SK!Madge or similar.
Was this a scum-slip from jimbob? It would make more sense for scum to remember about his NK and Town shouldn't forget about the lynch.

Anyway, back to collecting thoughts.

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:46 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:Mpolo - did you have daychat with DJ? NEVERMIND I just realized I have both day and night chat, I thought it was only night. Hey penpal, reply to my last message from the night please :)
Did you really not communicate with your penpal during D1?

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:41 pm UTC

So as I said earlier I won't vote today for anyone who voted for Dj D1 as nothing indicates to me that his scum-buddy as among them (obviously would be even more comfortable with this if emlightened and Madge could provide more content). There might or might not be an SK but I think for now the best play is to try to eliminate scum altogether as that would guarantee a reduction in the number of NK-s.

mpolo: I think his content matches his previous townie games, his answers are reasonable while not getting overly defensive and I detect no scummy vibes from him. I've made a similar early claim in Shakespeare while being scum after a bad N1, however that turned out to be a bad play and mpolo is certainly aware of that so I don't imagine this being the case here. There are a couple of minor things that look fishy when seen from a specific angle but could also be honest mistakes. Currently leaning town.

dimochka: late D2 content due to IRL. Hard to read, nothing jumps out as scummy to me but there are a couple of things where I disagree with him. He suspects Carlington to be Godfather because of mentioning that role and moody to be Survivor for the same reason. I would think that people would instead generally avoid mentioning their roles to not give out information. Given that Dj was immune to night actions in my opinion a Godfather is quite unlikely as that would make the Cop (who must exist if there's a GF) totally useless. Good point about emlightened's very early claim, would also like to hear it answered. Obviously made the effort to re-read, doesn't feel like nit-picking. I don't think he's Dj's scum-buddy.

Carlington: I was ready to vote for him when I started to read his earlier content, held back to clear up potential OMGUS feelings and his response looks townie to me. Would be great if he could complete his list with dimochka and moody. Still have reservations about him.

jimbob: Upon previous readings I found nothing suspicious about him. Then I noticed that at first he also only analyzed the end of D1 when trying to determine whether Madge could be scum. However he corrected it later of his own accord but maintained suspicion on her of being indie. There is one additional thing that jumped out to me and that is the discussion about scum's likely target tonight. I purposefully didn't comment so far about me dying tonight, not wanting to give scum any additional info. However it strikes me as odd that he would bring this topic up as it could be an attempt to influence a potential Doctor to protect me so that he can kill someone else more easily. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it as always and it was really meant as a joke, but generally I feel like openly discussing this is not beneficial to Town.

Potential lynch-candidates: Carlington, jimbob
Will decide after their response.

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby dimochka » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:48 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
dimochka wrote:Mpolo - did you have daychat with DJ? NEVERMIND I just realized I have both day and night chat, I thought it was only night. Hey penpal, reply to my last message from the night please :)
Did you really not communicate with your penpal during D1?

Yes, really :( I should learn to read.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:00 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
dimochka wrote:Mpolo - did you have daychat with DJ? NEVERMIND I just realized I have both day and night chat, I thought it was only night. Hey penpal, reply to my last message from the night please :)
Did you really not communicate with your penpal during D1?

Yes, really :( I should learn to read.
Apparently so should your pen pal, if they never messaged you either...

As noted earlier, I am away Friday to Sunday, so may not get much more chance to comment after this post. If anybody has anything they want me to answer or comment on, please ask me tonight, as I should have a chance to post on my way to work tomorrow.

@Sabrar, you say that there are minor things about mpolo that could look fishy. Are these the same things others have pointed out?

Regarding the comment on Sabrar's potential death, it was intended purely as a joke, based on your recent reaction to dying by the end of N2. It was certainly not intended to influence anyone's action in a specific direction.

I stand by what I said about Madge's behaviour not being good for town at the end if D1, since she seemed more concerned with saving her own skin. As I noted, I doubt she is mafia buddies with DJ, which leads to the logical conclusion of her being a potential indie. As Sabrar notes, it makes more sense to be looking for a team-mate for DJ than an independent, since there's a chance that an indie will be taken out by scum anyway, or otherwise does not prevent town from winning.

Is there anything else that you'd like me to comment on, Sabrar?

Out of time now, but if I can I'll try and post more later.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:24 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Sabrar, you say that there are minor things about mpolo that could look fishy. Are these the same things others have pointed out?
Both others and myself (like mistake in counting votals, early claim) but nothing new.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Is there anything else that you'd like me to comment on, Sabrar?
Actually yes. You agree that neither emlightened, nor Madge can be Dj's scum-buddy, you suspect Madge to be indie and you have no other opinion on emlightened. Yet in your latest list there is a huge difference between the rankings of those two, which at this point can only be explained if you specifically think that Madge is SK. Is that the case or am I misunderstanding something? Why is emlightened so high on your list when she could just as well be an indie as Madge?

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby flicky1991 » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:09 pm UTC

Sorry for no post yesterday - I was out all evening.

dimochka wrote:flicky - unlikely to have scum/scum pairing based on dj (so mpolo probably not scum)
I think you got my reasoning backwards there - I was suggesting that Dj was pointing us away from scum/scum pairings because he was in one, which would be a point against mpolo.

dimochka wrote:flicky - gist is he sees moody as most scummy, and i'm next for lack of content. (basically tunnelling on mpolo fmpov, don't like it)[/spoiler]
As I've said, the only reason mpolo is at the bottom of my list is because no-one else has quite as many points against them. If I was certain about mpolo, I'd've voted for him. (And I think you typoed mpolo as moody in that first sentence.)

mpolo's post content and reasoning since my last post are all fine, but I don't know whether I'm being influenced by him having me so strongly town! It's like reverse-OMGUS.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:58 pm UTC

I would like to request a mod-prod on emlightened and Madge.

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:35 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Actually yes. You agree that neither emlightened, nor Madge can be Dj's scum-buddy, you suspect Madge to be indie and you have no other opinion on emlightened. Yet in your latest list there is a huge difference between the rankings of those two, which at this point can only be explained if you specifically think that Madge is SK. Is that the case or am I misunderstanding something? Why is emlightened so high on your list when she could just as well be an indie as Madge?
A reasonable question. At the time of writing, mpolo and Carlington were the only two that I really found even remotely scummy (and mpolo more because of situational reasons than his play). Madge, as noted, I felt could be a possible independent, not necessarily SK. There are several other anti-town indies she could be, including lyncher or traitor, for example. Even if she is a survivor or other pro-town or at least not-anti-town indie she was clearly not all that bothered about helping Town. I didn't feel the same from emlightened at any particular point, so that's why she was firmly on the town end of my spectrum, and why there is a gap between her and Madge.

To summarise my previous list: Town = Sabrar, emlightened, flicky, moody, dimochka; Indie = Madge; Scum = mpolo (very slightly), Carlington. I expect I'm wrong about one of {Madge, mpolo, Carlington}, as I don't expect 3 scum and an independent. I might be wrong about one of the Town reads, though less likely, and I don't think we can rule out there being two independents.

Speaking of emlightened & Madge, neither of them have contributed anything for about 2 and a half days.
Requesting mod prods on emlightened and Madge (Ninja'ed by Sabrar)

Just going through Carlington's posts to see how I feel about him now, and whether I am still happy with my vote:

Post 2 (not counting confirmation post): thinks all scum have powers; thinks SK likely; plays up godfathers and roleblockers as being likely.
Post 3: forgot that cop would know if roleblocker - probably means that he's not a roleblocker, based on the way it's written. Also seriously plays down scum powers (godfather + goon, with goon getting additional pen pal power). I guess his previous post referred to scum powers including pen pal powers?
Post 4: his response to what he'd do as scum was very generic. No specifics at all.
Post 6 (long break between 4 and 5): picks out a few things that he noticed, but doesn't give any actual thoughts on most of them. Defends DJ's reads list. No scum reads on DJ (other than lurking). Scummiest is Madge. I can't criticise his defence of DJ or his finding Madge scum, given that I myself did it, but obviously in hindsight it looks bad for both of us that DJ flipped scum.
Post 7 (last post before day end): votes Madge. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, since it makes sense by that point in the lynch cycle to vote for one of the leading contenders, and Madge was one of his scummier candidates from earlier.
Post 8/10: Doesn't like that we had no NKs, as it gives less information, then promptly in post 10 also doesn't want to look at the wagons or DJ's flip. Odd, given that was basically the only piece of concrete evidence we had over D1. Also in post 8, tries to draw out reasons why Sabrar thinks there was no NKs, but backs off this with reasoning afterwards in post 9, although the reasoning is basically just a reflection of what Sabrar said.
Post 10: Reflects on most (but not all players) with some reasoning for a few players. Doesn't state why he believes emlightened to be an indie. Does vote mpolo (and is the first to do so), which is good, in that he has taken a stand early on. On the other hand, it could be seen as a little convenient since scum!Carlington will have noticed that several others have voiced concern about mpolo, and wants to get in early with a vote. Consequently, I consider this a null tell.
Post 11: Responds to Sabrar's response to his read on him, and mostly backs down from his concerns.

Overall, there's plenty there that makes me happy to be voting Carlington. I don't see him doing many things I'd consider townie. About the only things of any significance I saw in the first two days was his reads list on most players in Post 10, and his vote on mpolo (but note the caveats in both those points). I unfortunately don't have time to do further reads on anyone else this evening, as I have to go and pack for tomorrow, and this is likely to be my last post from a computer. If anybody would like me to re-examine anybody in particular, I will try to do so when phone posting tomorrow morning. If not, I'll likely look a little more at emlightened (to see if there is anything that screams independent about her in response to Sabrar), and/or mpolo (as my second scummiest read from my previous reads list).
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby emlightened » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:04 am UTC

@flicky&dimochka: I don't find Sabrar as scummy as a few of the other players, I'm just putting an effort into being suspicious of people with really townie metas. Going off reads alone (and ignoring D1 votals etc.), he'd probably be one of the towniest players for me.

jimbobmacdoodle: I'm not getting anything scummy from him, except perhaps repeating his reasons for voting Carlington a couple of times.
mpolo: Being dj's penpal and having his watcher power seems somewhat convenient, but that's all the scumminess that I can get from him.
Sabrar: He's asked a couple of fishy questions (e.g. about a cop reveal), but has otherwise seemed consistently townie.
dimochka: I was initially much more suspicious of him, due to not voting on D1 and a couple of posts back then, but nothing new stands out towards me, and his content's picked up a lot.
Carlington: He seems to be quite defensive in what he says, and many of his actions (e.g voting Madge, his comments on scum powers) make more sense for scum!Carlington than town!Carlington

Almost definitely non-scum:
flicky1991
moody7277
Madge
Not very likely scum:
jimbobmacdoodle
mpolo
dimochka
Sabrar
Probably scum:
Carlington

Vote: Carlington

I have no idea where the indie is (there's almost definitely an indie). If I had to guess, I'd say Madge, but mainly because of jimbob's strong opinion, and that indies often lurk without showing any particular scum signs. (Which I guess applies to me a bit, too.)

(Sorry for the relatively short post; I decided to wait until 1am to do this for some reason...)

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby dimochka » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:41 am UTC

I'd prefer not to vote until Madge and Carlington post and discuss, but that's just me.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:14 am UTC

I'm here. Sorry. Doing a re-read of D2 now.

Quick defense of my attempted actions at the end of D1: I'm my only 100% town-read, so I am all about self preservation, this is not new knowledge about my meta, and TBH I think unless you are a cop who is willing to be lynched to preserve their results or similar, then all townies should try and avoid being lynched themselves. This is not new or particularly groundbreaking game knowledge so I'm always shocked when people say "so and so tried not to be lynched! SCUM!!!!". Every single alignment except jester is best served by remaining alive. If anything walking willingly to your death could be a scummy thing, because scum can accept the funeral pyre so that their bussing scummates get credit; but I digress, I just wanted to make this rant.

I saw more speculation about mafia-mafia penpal pairs and I'm just wondering what is the point of speculating? Even if we assume it's random there's a decent enough chance that everyone is paired with people of the same alignment, or as many people as possible are paired with people of other alignments, or any combo you like. It doesn't get us anywhere. Maybe on D5 if it turns out all the pairs have been town-town and we unlocked one scum-scum and someone is trying to decide between two people and it's mpolo and someone else... but even then. You can't make a decision based on that. Is it just to see if there's any useful information to be obtained from your penpal by way of slips/etc??? I really don't understand. I think most people are similar to me and just assuming that their penpal is scum because that's safest. Based on DJ's posts yesterday I'm happy to accept that we likely don't have scum-scum pairs but mpolo isn't above suspicion.

As has been said to death the people who think they were responsible for preventing the kill last night should be tight-lipped, because you'll just tell mafia who to kill to prevent N2 also being bloodless.

Jimbob is probably at the top of my scum list, though Carlington's silence has me curious, so I'm by no means locked in.


Some notes on a few players:

Sabrar - I see why he tends not to live through the night, going between peoples' past posts and finding inconsistencies is really cool

Dim expected two kills - possible Vig or SK slip? Or just expecting one to exist?

I like Flicky, not sure why as nothing realy jumps out to me, just an overall feeling

Mpolo - seems rather quiet despite being DJ's penpal and giving us lots of gossip, so probably isn't actually quiet, so not sure why I think he's quiet?

Jimbob - Has a go at sabrar for role fishing, I might be being over-charitable but I took from Sabrar's request for the cop to claim in that hesitant way to be like "if the cop has a scum result it might be a good idea to claim", which is a generally accepted method. He's also saying that DJ voting for me could have been a way of making it look like I wasn't his scummate even though I was??? I think that voting for anyone other than me would be really weird behaviour for my self-preservation justifications above





Moody

  • Good list of reads though I don't agree with them all (especially emlightened being scummy for reasons I specify below).


emlightened


  • FMPOV is confirmed non-mafia (but could still be other kind of scum) since I don't think DJ would have willingly sold a scummate out like that; is only confirmed FMPOV because I know I'm not scum, other people could see it as some crazy 3 way gambit to get at least one of the 3 scum cleared
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:51 am UTC

Skimmed through emlightened's posts, and I don't get any real feeling about her being an indie, unlike with Madge. She doesn't show the same survivalist traits as Madge. Also her confused series of posts looks like a townie trying to work out what to do, rather than someone trying to survive.

Speaking of Madge, she raises a fair point about her meta, but the difference here is that she actually considered DJ to be scum, yet backed off him to save her own skin. Whilst it's no bad thing for town to want to survive, once it strays into ignoring trying to lynch the scummiest player, I think it is bad play.

The difference from D1 on mafia-mafia pairs is that DJ was actively trying to discount such pairs. Most of the discussion on that front is whether this makes it more likely for mpolo to be scum. For me, it is one of multiple circumstantial reasons for mpolo to be scum.

Can't remember if I mentioned this already, but I read the Sabrar cop-claim comment the other way around, namely that if there is one, to claim regardless.

...and I'm at work. If I get further chance to post, it will either be whilst my code is compiling or whilst I'm on a boat just off the coast of Britain.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby mpolo » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:22 am UTC

For me, in retrospect, DJ's big tell was pushing scum-scum pairings in thread, but pushing town-scum pairings in PMs. Guilty conscience, much?

I can buy Madge being a survivor with the desperate ploys to save her life. This seems more likely than her being scum, to my mind. Emlightened is very likely non-scum (otherwise there's no point in DJ switching to her). If Madge is a survivor, obviously she would only be going for the easiest target. I think that at this point, a survivor has a huge advantage to side with town, so I'm not terribly worried about Madge.

@Madge: It is true that town would rather be night-killed than lynched, but, particularly on a D1, a pure townie would be more likely to accept a mislynch (so that we have a list of voters that almost certainly includes 1 or more scum) than to blindly flail out in desperation to save himself. Obviously, he would rather be alive, but desperately trying to save himself at all costs (possibly taking out a better town power than his own) would point toward not being simply town. As you point out, it's not black and white, but I think the tendency is real. I agree that the probability of town-scum or scum-scum pairings is pretty empty as an argument, and jimbob's trying to keep that alive speaks poorly of him.

I need to review the argument about Carlington before posting about it, and I've already got a reasonable block of text here, so I'm going to hold off a moment, reread Carlington, and then come back.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:40 am UTC

Some reactions to new stuff:

Madge's post looks honest to me because I get the feeling that she's simply writing out her thoughts as they occur to her. In my opinion it would take a lot of effort to fake this and I probably wouldn't be able to do it. Wanted to post basically the same as mpolo about her attempt at survival, if suspicious townie stays alive because of lynching another townie then they will just get mislynched later. However I can completely relate to wanting to stay alive for selfish reasons.

To me emlightened's content is more indicative of a Survivor, posting very little just to get by, wanting to stay in the background. Actually same could be said of SK, I have no real idea how to differentiate between the two. So as long as everyone is speculating about the identity of our indie, my bet would be on her.

jimbob's mentioning of a Traitor reminded me that PyPokemon had a very similar setup with 10 players and 'weird' powers and in that game Snark balanced the numbers by adding a Traitor who didn't know who scum was and vice versa. Could be the same here.

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Snark » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:00 am UTC

Deadline in ~29 hours.

Votals
Carlington - 2 - (jimbobmacdoodle, emlightened)
jimbobmacdoodle - 1 - (moody)
mpolo - 1 - (Carlington)

9 alive, 5 to lynch.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:13 am UTC

emlightened wrote:jimbobmacdoodle: I'm not getting anything scummy from him, except perhaps repeating his reasons for voting Carlington a couple of times.

Started to feel slightly better about jimbob but this made me rethink. This could easily be a preemptive attempt to justify a known mislynch. Will hold off voting until tomorrow.

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:22 pm UTC

Quick check-in before I leave home:
Sabrar wrote:This could easily be a preemptive attempt to justify a known mislynch. Will hold off voting until tomorrow.
Or it could be a Town player collecting their thoughts and presenting their case. As people who have read some of my Gojoe posts about in progress games in the past, I'm rarely all that convinced about my reads, so I wanted to justify my vote to myself, given I may not get much chance to change it should more information comes to light.

That comment by Sabrar pings me a little. Just as my post could be "justifying a known mislynch" so could his comment be lining me up for a mislynch if Carlington flips town. I accept that this is a little OMGUS, and it won't affect my vote today, but I feel like I should call him out on it.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:44 pm UTC

Quick reply: as previous games have shown my reads are usually not so great either. So when I have to choose between two candidates I will always try to look at every comment from different angles, pointing out things that I think could be read differently, waiting to hear other players' opinions on the matter. Your post for example could either be frustrated Town or overly defensive scum and I have no idea which is the case.
Really hope Carlington will have the opportunity to comment, would hate if 'reverse OMGUS' should influence my decision.

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby mpolo » Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:36 pm UTC

Review of the current vote-leader:

Spoiler:
Carlington:

No scummy vibes. Voting based on active-lurkage. Still thinks a SK should be considered. Keep scum in the dark about the reason for no kill. Wagons at the end of D1 seem meaningless. jimbob looks fine (other than wrong reads). Madge not looking scummy. Starting to worry about Sabrar (jester fixation, role-fishing). emlightened a neutral/pro-town indie. Flicky seems townie. Madge not scummy. Sabrar's explanation on jesters O.K. Role-fishing charge was unwarranted.

Reasons for votes on Carlington:

jimbob: D1 focused almost solely on setup, No substance D2. No comment on end of D1.

emlightened: Defensiveness. Some actions make sense only for scum!Carlington


Well, I was kind of hoping to be blown away by the evidence, and I'm not finding so much. I can see a certain defensiveness/trying to please everybody, though.

I guess that puts him in the scummy pile, though I can't say it looks extremely damning.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:38 pm UTC

I'm not sure I understand. You expected completely convincing evidence when there are 3 players who have been voted for and the vote-distribution is only 2-1-1 with 9 players? This just shows that we are undecided.

On another note the following request will be clearly seen as role-fishing by some but at this point I don't really care as it's more important to avoid a mislynch now than what might happen in the future.
I can imagine a couple of scenarios where if you claim your ability someone else would be able to verify it and you might be cleared from suspicion. Therefore in case you think that it's likely you're getting mislynched and you have an ability that is clearly townie and that ability can be verified, please don't leave your claim for the last minute like it happened in Dollhouse.

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby mpolo » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:10 pm UTC

I was being a little facetious there. But I had hoped that there'd be something meaty to latch onto. I'm kind of worried that we're going to be forced into a last-minute decision here. Well, I guess we are clearly going to be forced into a last-minute decision.

I should check in tomorrow morning, and possibly one time more before the deadline.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:03 pm UTC

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that's not quite seeing the argument for Carlington being scum. He's not the towniest, but not more so than any of the other slightly-non-town-looking players.

That said... to bring back my read list from before
flicky1991 wrote:TOWN
Sabrar
moody7277
jimbobmacdoodle
emlightened
Carlington
Madge
dimochka
mpolo
SCUM
I did consider at the time of posting that this was "top half = probably town, bottom half = less certain", so Carlington was already on the scummier side.

Ugh... I should probably vote now in case I sleep in and don't have time in the morning.

mpolo's not looking as bad to me now after those last few posts. If Madge is anti-town then she's still not mafia (battle with Dj) so not the target right now. My only point against dimochka was the lack of reads, and he's made up for that now... so that kind of does leave Carlington as the only one that makes sense to vote for. It's not a strong read at all, but none of my reads were, and all the others are losing the points I had against them. Plus, everyone that's voted for Carlington so far is on the townie end of my list.

Pending any last-minute interference...

Vote: Carlington
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:32 pm UTC

@moody: any new thoughts?

moody7277 wrote:...

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby moody7277 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:47 pm UTC

I think, as was mentioned before, that the tradeoff of no night kills N1 is the lack of information for D2. The mad rush of voting twoards the end of the day also means that scum weren't likely to be bussing as they might if there was a clear favorite. With two people not posting until just recently, it's not that surprising that there are only 4 votes down with under 24 hours to go.

Post-by-post on frontrunner Carlington:

Spoiler:
D1
Post 1: Setup spec with 2 scum and heavy on independents. Convoluted statement that
is mostly anti-claiming.

Knee-jerk reaction is that he's heavy on independents because he is one and is speculating on the existence of another one.

Post 2: Powerful town and powerful scum. Role spec, including roleblocker and godfather to confound investigators. "Naturally this is all baseless."

Naturally. :roll:

Post 3: Slight correction to previous spec and further spec

Post 4: Questioning Sabrar on scum powers, answering jimbob's scum strategy question with taking out double town penpal pairs and "subduing" independents. dimochka not likley scum, smart to expect multiple kills, awaits setup info N1 will bring.

Bit of a let down on that last point :P

Post 5: Outside issues, wants to look at DJ, dim, Madge

Post 6: dim still not scum, likes Madge's penpal claim idea, but still could vote for her, DJ for lurker lynch, most other people look townie.

Post 7: Votes Madge as scummiest looking.

D2
Post 8: Discusses Madge vote re lack of scum reads, whether lack of night kills means one or two saves.

Post 9: Agrees to close discussion on lack of NK to limit scum info.

Post 10: Madge and DJ behavior looks a little bad for Madge, emlightened not with either. mpolo looking a little odd, everyone else still townie (or town friendly indie for emlightened). Votes mpolo

Post 11: Response to Sabrar about Madge makes her less scum looking, other issues including not including me in his analyses.

I was wondering a bit about this in my re-read of Carlington.

Basically, the only things that stand out are the lack of strong scum reads and the independent heavy setup speculation and some discussion of it later on. Don't know if either of those count as scummy, but I wouldn't feel entirely comfortable calling him town.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Sabrar » Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:57 am UTC

Vote: jimbobmacdoodle

I find him just a bit more scummier than Carlington.

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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby dimochka » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:24 am UTC

I find Carlington more scummy than Jimbob, but I simply don't want to put him at L-1 yet. However, if he doesn't respond in the next 2.5 hours or so, I'm going to go to sleep and will therefore vote on him.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:03 am UTC

*Yawn* bad night's sleep is not conducive to mafia, but I should probably post some final thoughts on players before deadline.

Sabrar - generally townie feel, but has slipped somewhat from his towniest slot, partly due to OMGUS from me, but partly because some of his reasoning felt a little tunnely to me. Others will need to judge as I am too much in the firing line to be able to make an objective opinion.
Madge - very low content still, but did post a lengthy post recently. Nothing massively stood out except she never commented on Carlington.
Carlington - scanning through on my phone, but I believe he hasn't posted anything since Wednesday. This doesn't exactly help his case.

Requesting modprod on Carlington

Mpolo - nothing scummy stood out to me in his recent posting, but I haven't got time for a full reread. I'm feeling better about him.
Moody - has posted less than I'd expect from him this week. Seems to be cautious about calling Carlington scummy. Hasn't really attempted to draw further content from the person he is voting on (me), nor posted anything further as to why I am scum. Getting concerned about lack of comment on most players since his reads list.
Flicky - generally felt fine with him. He has posted regular thoughts on a range of players. Biggest issue for me is that he doesn't have much in the way of a strong scum opinion on anyone. Town.
Emlightened - I don't really have anything more to say here about her, except that I noticed that she didn't give any reasons behind her three town reads. Likely town still.
Dimochka - out of time to do a solid read of his recent posts, but nothing struck me previously here. Has held off voting so far.

Town (loosely in order): flicky, emlightened, Madge (if not indie), Sabrar, dimochka
Probably not scum: Moody, mpolo
Scum: Carlington
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Carlington » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:24 am UTC

Carlington wrote:Also, my activity may decline a little bit from Thursday, as I'll be spending time with my family. My internet access will actually be better there than here, but that's contingent on the fact that I can't really go and visit my family and spend my entire visit looking at my phone.

Catching up, will post soon
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby Madge » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:28 am UTC

Vote: jimbob

His leaps of logic don't make much sense and just seems all-around weird in his justifications for many of the things he posts. I definitely think he's a better candidate than Carlington who was not posting for honest reasons, not even due to lurking.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:54 am UTC

Sorry Carlington. Forgot you said you'd be occupied.

Madge - care to explain what leaps of logic?
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby dimochka » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:58 am UTC

Madge you know you put us in a tie, right?

This may end up being a bad idea, but I'm going to do it anyways.

Vote Carlington

Now if he gets back, he's going to force a tie as well, which is perfectly logical. Optimally, an extension would be great, but otherwise I feel better about a carlington lynch than I do about jimbob.
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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:16 am UTC

@mpolo - looks like you'll be getting the casting vote. Would you mind expressing which way you are planning on voting before doing so. I'm prepared to claim if I have to, but would prefer not to.
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