2015 Secret Santa by Suzaku - Game Over

[jimbobmacdoodle]

Quick question that I just thought of:
@SirGabriel - why would you rather lynch yourself instead of Minestrone?

[mpolo]

There is something really weird going on here. I am wondering if Sir Gabriel sent in the poisoner, so knows something here that he CAN'T say.

Unvote: moody

To see what happens, I guess.

[SirGabriel]

There is something really weird going on here. I am wondering if Sir Gabriel sent in the poisoner, so knows something here that he CAN'T say.

Unvote: moody

To see what happens, I guess.

I believe that brings us to a tie: two votes each for moody and Lawrencelot, one each for myself and freezeblade.

[Sabrar]

Unofficial votals:
Lawrencelot - 2 (moody7277, jimbobmacdoodle)
freezeblade - 1 (Minestrone)
moody7277 - 2 (Snark, Sabrar)
SirGabriel - 1 SirGabriel

Not Voting (5) - Djehutynakht, freezeblade, emlightened, mpolo, Lawrencelot

@mpolo: why would you do that? We know what happens in case of a tie:

4. If the votals are tied, then random.org will randomly select one of the tied players to be lynched, unless all players are voting solely for the tied players, in which case there will be no lynch.

You just opened up the possibility for scum lynching a townie without looking too* suspicious (either by busing Lawrencelot or by introducing a 3rd player into the tie, giving them more chance of surviving).
What was your reasoning here?

*I know this is very subjective

[SirGabriel]

Unofficial votals:
Lawrencelot - 2 (moody7277, jimbobmacdoodle)
freezeblade - 1 (Minestrone)
moody7277 - 2 (Snark, Sabrar)
SirGabriel - 1 SirGabriel

Not Voting (5) - Djehutynakht, freezeblade, emlightened, mpolo, Lawrencelot

@mpolo: why would you do that? We know what happens in case of a tie:

4. If the votals are tied, then random.org will randomly select one of the tied players to be lynched, unless all players are voting solely for the tied players, in which case there will be no lynch.

You just opened up the possibility for scum lynching a townie without looking too* suspicious (either by busing Lawrencelot or by introducing a 3rd player into the tie, giving them more chance of surviving).
What was your reasoning here?

*I know this is very subjective

If that's the case, then I'll just switch my vote back.

Unvote
Vote: freezeblade

[mpolo]

I totally missed the numbers there. I thought I was doing something intelligent there.

Now there's a three-way tie, though, right?

The scummiest player is voting for Lawrencelot.

At this point the argument against freezeblade is mostly lurkage.

It seems that people have reasons that I shouldn't vote what I feel is the right move.

If a coin-toss decides the vote, we have no voting information. I think I still want to prevent moody from using his night power, actually. I have to go to class now. If time hasn't been called by the time I'm back, I guess I have to vote again, and unless somebody gives me adequate reasons, it'll be for moody.

[mpolo]

Vote: moody

SirGabriel was so against this, that I backed off before, but I think it's the best move with the information available.

[jimbobmacdoodle]

@SirGabriel, you didn't answer my question at the top of the page. Please do.

I'm guessing that Suzaku will be in bed by now, as I think he's on Japanese time? I think that gives us a few more hours. I'll be fairly busy in that time, but will be keeping an eye on votals. I prefer a moody lynch above anybody apart from Lawrencelot at the moment.

Speaking of moody, do you have anything to say?

[SirGabriel]

@SirGabriel, you didn't answer my question at the top of the page. Please do.

This was my answer:

I don't think it will help anything for me to claim. I will claim that I am town, if that makes a difference.

I just realized that I posted that before your question, but it's still all I want to say on the subject at the moment.

I'm guessing that Suzaku will be in bed by now, as I think he's on Japanese time? I think that gives us a few more hours.

I agree, we probably still have some time left, if that makes any difference to anyone.

[jimbobmacdoodle]

Ok, thank you. I didn't realise that was referring to your view of Minestrone.

[Minestrone]

I don't know what the deal is with SirGabriel and me. We're not masons or anything and if they were a cop I wouldn't expect them to hint at it like that. Also don't understand why SirG would prefer lynching themselves over moody, even if they see a moody lynch as a no lynch, which it isn't exactly anyway. I understand that the main argument against freezeblade is lurkage but my worry is even if they get replaced we'll go into D3 with D1 level information on them. I guess the same can be said of Dj, and to a lesser degree Lawrencelot. SirG's voting behavior has been really weird, not exactly scummy but definitely not something I'd expect of a townie. If we had more time I would want to lynch them at this point but since we're already technically past deadline if my time zone converter served me right that doesn't seem likely. Still, moody doesn't seem to need help getting lynched right now and the 3 way tie has already been broken so I'll

Unvote

Vote: SirGabriel

ready to switch to moody if it will make a difference.

[SirGabriel]

Ok, thank you. I didn't realise that was referring to your view of Minestrone.

It's not.

[SirGabriel]

Unvote
Vote: SirGabriel

[Minestrone]

I honestly don't know how to respond to that. I remember you used to have Vytron's icon--did you absorb some of their mafia strategy along with that? I don't see how voting yourself could possibly be a townie thing to do at this point so my two ideas are jester or scum misguidedly attempting to look townie/jestery.

[jimbobmacdoodle]

Umm... what? SirG's behaviour at the moment is so weird that it's into third party or super crazy role territory. Given that he appears to want to be lynched, I'm not sure that voting him is a good idea though.

[SirGabriel]

Umm... what? SirG's behaviour at the moment is so weird that it's into third party or super crazy role territory. Given that he appears to want to be lynched, I'm not sure that voting him is a good idea though.

I think super-crazy-role might be a bit of an overstatement, but then again, maybe not.

Since it looks like moody will be lynched if I'm not, which would basically be a no-lynch since I suspect he's dying anyway, I think claiming now makes sense.
I am The Ghost of Christmas Present(s), inventor from beyond-the-grave. When I'm dead, I can't vote but I can still post, and once per day I can give a one-shot power of my choice to a player of my choice.
Also, as I said before, I am town.

[Sabrar]

11. You may not play to lose, or act in a way that is clearly against your win condition.

@Suzaku: Would the following situations fall under the above stipulation or are these kind of gambles allowed?
- Suppose a Mafia player acts in a way that makes it abundantly clear that he is scum but in the process makes one of his/her buddies appear townie.
- Suppose a Mafia player actively tries to lynch one of his/her buddies in order to appear townie. Would the answer change depending on whether s/he had the other player's consent to this plan?

[SirGabriel]

11. You may not play to lose, or act in a way that is clearly against your win condition.

@Suzaku: Would the following situations fall under the above stipulation or are these kind of gambles allowed?
- Suppose a Mafia player acts in a way that makes it abundantly clear that he is scum but in the process makes one of his/her buddies appear townie.
- Suppose a Mafia player actively tries to lynch one of his/her buddies in order to appear townie. Would the answer change depending on whether s/he had the other player's consent to this plan?

I'm guessing the day will be over by the time you get the mod's answer, but I think we can safely say no, those would not count as "clearly against your win condition." Only one mafia member needs to be alive to win, and those strategies are designed to increase the chance of a particular mafia member surviving to the end.

[Minestrone]

Ok if you're town that actually makes sense, a one shot power could be more useful than a vote in a lot of cases and you'll still be able to post. You could just as easily be scum with the same role but if you do flip scum then you wouldn't be able to give powers exclusively to your teammates without giving us information. If you're lying you're probably jester at this point, not scum, and I don't really know whether to believe you. Speaking of believing you, if this is your entire role why single me out as town if you didn't have any alignment information on me?

@Sabrar I'm not the mod but I'm pretty sure both of those things, and even more, are ok under that rule. iirc that rule was first put in place to govern how people play when there's a cult present (no trying to be recruited to the detriment of town if you think cult will win, or playing against the cult because you feel loyal to town after you get recruited) and is a standard rule to have around, especially in closed setups that don't want to confirm or deny the possibility of a cult.

[Minestrone]

Oh also why didn't you try to get nightkilled instead of lynched? (not that it would work now since you've claimed)

[mpolo]

Unvote

Vote: SirGabriel

If this is a ploy from a jester, well played.

[Sabrar]

- I know that the answer won't come in time to help to decide this issue today, however SirGabriel might not get lynched and then it will help me evaluate the situation tomorrow.
- I also assume that the mod will reply in the same way as both of you just did, still I would like to hear his stance on the matter.

[SirGabriel]

Speaking of believing you, if this is your entire role why single me out as town if you didn't have any alignment information on me?

Because, from my analysis, you were the only one who stood out as being townie.

Oh also why didn't you try to get nightkilled instead of lynched? (not that it would work now since you've claimed)

Good idea in theory. In practice, I can't think of any strategy that makes me a likely nightkill target, especially since there are no kills in the game that we know of besides the mafia kill. And I wasn't trying to get lynched until the wagon started forming on the guy who has already been poisoned.

[Sabrar]

In practice, I can't think of any strategy that makes me a likely nightkill target,

Couldn't you have claimed being doctor with some weird stipulation that you must reveal yourself or something similar?
Otherwise I tend to believe you right now, but It sure would have helped your case if you claimed earlier and not gone around in circles for some time.
Will re-read and possibly vote later. I agree with mpolo, if you're a Jester this is a wonderful ploy.

[SirGabriel]

In practice, I can't think of any strategy that makes me a likely nightkill target,

Couldn't you have claimed being doctor with some weird stipulation that you must reveal yourself or something similar?
Otherwise I tend to believe you right now, but It sure would have helped your case if you claimed earlier and not gone around in circles for some time.
Will re-read and possibly vote later. I agree with mpolo, if you're a Jester this is a wonderful ploy.

I could have claimed any power role I wanted. Doesn't mean anyone would believe me.
I didn't claim earlier because we wouldn't be in a good position if I had claimed right before deadline was called (the post in which I first self-voted was already after the listed deadline). But now there are plenty of people awake now to discuss it and vote, and Suzaku is unlikely to be awake now, so hopefully I'll get lynched today and moody will die of poison tonight.

[Sabrar]

The timing of SirGabriel's actions convinced me that he's telling the truth. Now one question remains: who do we want to lynch?
- a townie who will help us later but also furthers scum's goal by being dead,
- one of the 3 lurkers,
- or someone who's already poisoned, but most likely scum with some disruptive ability that he could use at least one more time?
Unfortunately I have no definitive answer as of yet. I will be awake for another 3-4 hours, hopefully by then I can come to some conclusion.

[SirGabriel]

The timing of SirGabriel's actions convinced me that he's telling the truth. Now one question remains: who do we want to lynch?
- a townie who will help us later but also furthers scum's goal by being dead,
- one of the 3 lurkers,
- or someone who's already poisoned, but most likely scum with some disruptive ability that he could use at least one more time?
Unfortunately I have no definitive answer as of yet. I will be awake for another 3-4 hours, hopefully by then I can come to some conclusion.

Since I've claimed, scum aren't going to kill me until the rest of the town is dead, so we're best off lynching me today. That way I can be useful as an inventor starting tomorrow instead of just being confirmed vanilla.

[emlightened]

Going from the votals, it looks like SirG is most likely to get lynched. moody is practically dead anyway, and unless SirG is a jester, killing him can only be beneficial. The only other choice (assuming we don't get a massive surge of vote changes, like we did with Madge) is lawrencelot, but I'd rather lynch a townie who is more powerful after dying than potentially mislynch a townie-lurker. Overall, it seems like SirG is the better choice.

Also: I took a look at the votals, and potential number of mafia/towin etc. at start, and I think that this could only put us on MYLO if a SK/Vigilante kill hits a townie (it would have had to collide with the scum kill last night, or be SK!mpolo, I think) and we started with at least four scum. It seems like a safe choice, so:


Vote: SirGabriel


Unofficial votals:
Lawrencelot - 2 (moody7277, jimbobmacdoodle)
moody7277 - 2 (Snark, Sabrar)
SirGabriel - 4 (SirGabriel, mpolo, Minestrone, emlightened)

Not Voting (3) - Djehutynakht, freezeblade, Lawrencelot

(6 votes needed for hammer.)

[jimbobmacdoodle]

Any objections to me putting SirG at L - 1? I'll vote for him in half an hour or so, if nobody says anything (I'll also hammer if somebody else votes before then). I could think of a couple of valid cases for not town!SirG to want to be lynched, but I reckon that he's being truthful and it's better to lynch him, since I don't have any strong scum reads atm.

[Sabrar]

Ok, let's do it.

Unvote
Vote: SirGabriel

[jimbobmacdoodle]

Ok, no objections were raised. The only people other than me not voting for SirG are our trio of lurkers plus probable scum moody and Snark, who has been quiet for the last bit, so I don't expect any solid objections.

Unvote Lawrencelot
Vote SirGabriel

Hammer, I believe, assuming emlightened's votals are accurate.

[Suzaku]

Hammer or not, it's now night.

Night will be extended to (probably) about 24 hours so I can deal with replacements and/or modkills.

Votals and day results will be up when I have a chance to double check them.

[Suzaku]

Final Votals:

Lawrencelot - 1 (moody7277)
moody7277 - 1 (Snark)
SirGabriel - 6 (Minestrone, SirGabriel, mpolo, emlightened, Sabrar, jimbobmacdoodle)

Not Voting (3) - Djehutynakht, freezeblade, Lawrencelot

SirGabriel is lynched by hammer and is dead.

Night processing and replacement searching is ongoing - updates ASAP.

[Suzaku]

Update:

Lawrencelot has contacted me and will continue to play.
bessie will be replacing Djehutynakht.
Echo244 will be replacing freezeblade.

D3 will start once I've sorted out the details and processed night.

[Suzaku]

The question on everyone's mind when dawn broke: had SirGabriel been telling the truth? Was he really going to turn into a ghost and give everyone gifts?
They couldn't wait to see what would happen next. Or who else had been killed.

SirGabriel was lynched. He was is The Ghost of Christmas Present(s) (Inventor from beyond-the-grave), a member of the Town.
Role details:

Spoiler:

Player - SirGabriel
Role Name - The Ghost of Christmas Present(s) (Inventor from beyond-the-grave)
Role Description - Wooo... you are the Ghost of Christmas Present(s), a mischievous spirit of Christmas who goes around handing out gifts to the living at this most festive time of year. Or at least you will be once you've actually died...
Role Abilities - This role is that of an Inventor from beyond-the-grave. While you remain living, you have no special abilities of any sort. Once you are dead, however, you DO NOT leave the game. Because of this, you must not read spoilers after dying (unless you are Ghost-Busted and leave the game for good). Note that your death will reveal your role and powers, and alignment to all other players.

After your death, you immediately gain access to an inventor ability. Once per day, you may send the mod a design for a present which grants a 1-shot ability to its holder, and the name of another player to give it to. That player will then receive that 1-shot ability, to use if and when they see fit. Each ability must be different from any that you have designed before, and you cannot give the same player an ability on two days running. The mod may nerf or outright reject abilities which are overpowered.

Once dead, you may no longer vote but you may post in the game thread. While a ghost, players may still vote for you or target you with actions: if you are lynched or are otherwise 'killed', you will be Ghost-Busted and will be removed from the game permanently.

SirGabriel is dead but remains in the game as a ghost and can continue to influence events. He cannot vote, but can post in thread, and be targeted or voted for. If he is 'lynched' or 'killed', then he will be Ghost-Busted and permanently removed from the game.

moody7277 died of poison during the night. He was the Game Breaker, a member of the Town.
Role Details:

Spoiler:

Player - moody7277
Role Name - Game Breaker
Role Description - You love causing havoc, chaos and disorder. Seeing people's reactions when they don't get what they expect. Outcomes with confusion and people suffering when they don't know what's going on and their despair after their find out their plans happened in a way entirely different from what they hoped, but they can't explain why.
Role Abilities - You are the Chaotic Redirector. Each night, you may select up to 1/4 of the living players (rounded UP). Any actions taken by those players during the following night will be randomly redirected onto new targets. Note that you may not target yourself, but you are a valid target for redirected actions.

Sabrar was killed during the night. He was the Paranoid Poison Candy Cane Owner, a member of the Town.
Role Details:

Spoiler:

Player - Sabrar
Role Name - Paranoid Poison Candy Cane Owner
Role Description - You hate carollers coming to visit you every evening in the Christmas season! To stop them once and for all, you give them a candy cane when they come and visit you. Naturally, the candy cane is poisoned, so they won't be coming back to bother you because they will die the following night. However, lately you've just started handing poisoned candy canes out to everyone who knocks on the door and then slamming it in their face rather than seeing if they start caroling. Things are simpler that way, and they can't start whatever it is they were planning on doing, which means you haven't heard a christmas carol in years. Of course, if someone really wanted to do something to you, they probably could just step inside before you got a chance to close the door in their face, so you probably can't protect yourself from everything. But at least you won't hear any more of them pesky carollers!
Role Abilities - You will poison any player who targets you with an action at night. That player will die at the end of the following night.
Hidden Mechanics - The poison action does not stop the triggering action from occuring. The poison action is reflexive, but can be roleblocked.

Minestrone was killed during the night. They were Ian, the Board Game Enthusiast, a Serial Killer.
Role Details:

Spoiler:

Player - Minestrone
Role Name - Ian, the Board Game Enthusiast
Role Description - Ian is a massive fan of board games. He has a collection of over 300 at home, most of which he never plays. The biggest problem until recently was finding anyone to play with! However, he recently found this large group of errrm... acquaintances he's been able to convince to play with him.
Role Abilities - Boardgamers' Chat - You may chat with other boardgamers via PM at any time. Once per day, you may PM the mod the name of another player. That player will be recruited to join Boardgamers' Chat at the beginning of the following night. This will have the additional effect of preventing them from carrying out, or being targeted by, any other actions during the night, as you explain to them all the intricate, little rules of the game.

Minestrone was poisoned

7 alive, 4 to hammer.

Deadline in roughly 108 hours (including weekend half time). Details once I figure out my schedule for next week.

[Sabrar]

Knew it. Have fun!

[SirGabriel]

I'm welcome to suggestions as to who to give what power to. I'm inclined to go with a day-use power, either a standard alignment cop or copy the drug-taking dog power from smalltown. Suzaku has confirmed that I can give someone a day-use power that can be used the same day I give it out. He had no comment on whether I can give someone an investigative power that gives public results, and if a power I sent is nerfed, I won't be informed how it's nerfed, so I don't think attempting to submit an investigation with publicly available results would help.

Is there anyone still alive who was part of the Boardgamers' Chat?

Also, can someone make a list of who is still alive?

[Suzaku]

Living Players:

1. jimbobmacdoodle
2. Snark
3. mpolo
4. VytronLawrencelot
5. emlightened
6. FreezebladeEcho244
7. patzerDjehutynakhtbessie

Ghosts:

1. SirGabriel

[jimbobmacdoodle]

Quick check in, in response to SirGabriel. I was the only other person in the Boardgamers' Chat, hence being roleblocked N1. I'll share anything you want to know from it, later on today, along with my night results etc, so please ask away. Am busy at work now though.

[mpolo]

I stupidly had a watch in on Sir Gabriel and realized too late to change it (I sent a message, but accidentally sent it to myself instead of Suzaku. I would have visited Minestrone if that had been in in time to process.)

It seems like we just lost a lot of town there. We should probably look at the numbers and see where we likely are. (I just got handed the "please insert subtitles into this defective video in the next 20 minutes" job, so will probably not be back until tomorrow.)

Moody turned out to be town, which means that most of us were wrong about stuff. I wonder if he redirected anyone?