Smalltown Werewolf PYP - F is for Finished!

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Sabrar
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Sabrar » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:15 pm UTC

I was bored so decided to write this out. Please find below my refutation of jimbobmacdoodle's 'analysis'. Please also note that this is obviously not meant to be a complete and utter proof that I'm not buddies with patzer (as that would be impossible).

General remark first: you are invited to look through my post history and verify for yourselves that even though I sometimes talk about the vibes I am getting and the tone of a post, whenever I commit to a serious decision (be it FoS, vote or assigning an alignment to somebody) I always give my exact reasoning based on post-content and game rules. You won't find me defending patzer (or anyone else for that matter) just because I had a 'feeling'.

So with that out of the way let's look at jimbobmacdoodle's post. The first 'tell' he notices is that I list several ways in which Lawrencelot could be a 3rd party and patzer then agrees with me. Although I did not include what was the reason for that post, if you read it carefully along with its antecedents, you will see that it was a reply to Van, justifying from my point of view that we should lynch Lawrencelot even if he's 3rd party (but not suggesting that he is, just listing out possibilities). I have no idea how my post was interpreted by patzer, you should ask her about that.

The second point is that I suspiciously distance myself from patzer but then go onto indirectly defending her. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, no matter what I do he will interpret as being buddies. I mean by that token I should be clearly buddies with faubiguy instead as I never addressed a question to him, analysed him or defended him. Or I could be buddies with crucialityfactor, as I'm vigorously defending him from RoadieRich. Or may be jimbobmacdoodle and me are the real scum-buddies and this is just a huge smoke-screen. Who knows. With such logic anything is possible...
I have really no idea how to argue against this.

Third point is the reiteration of patzer's question here. I thought it was a legitimate inquiry, it sparked discussion and encouraged players to analyze more. SirGabriel and crucialityfactor already posted and didn't mention it, so I didn't want to let it slide into oblivion. As you can see from my post history I like it when people are active and participate in the game and want to have more content out there.

Fourth point is me questioning patzer's decision to investigate Znirk (among other things). I will now repeat for the third time that this move does not make any sense as Znirk could have only counteracted #HBC | YOLOSWAG (and possibly Sungura but there were infinitely more juicy targets than her out there) and he was more likely to kill/roleblock someone else instead. Again he talks about how this could be considered as a warning to my 'team-mate'. Sure it could be, but by the same logic what couldn't? Should we consider everything I say to anyone a warning to my buddy? Why do you single out this particular instance when I question somebody's decision? Oh right, because it 'supports' your argument. Guess what, it doesn't.

Next he continues to be wishy-washy, saying that my post could be either read as not-teammate-with-patzer!Sabrar or could be a hint. For the fifth time, how is that a tell? I'm getting frustrated here.

Regarding my wall-of-text, he doesn't like my certainty. I agree with everyone about not being able to be 100% percent sure in these games. However we have to use a significance level to know when to act, otherwise nobody would vote because they couldn't be completely certain. Clearly this level will differ from player to player. I've given my reasoning why I trust crucialityfactor's claim and why that means that patzer cannot be an alien. I can see why you would disagree with my certainty but to me this is clear as hell.

Finally he finds it interesting that a lot of my player-analyses contain patzer. I mean why the hell wouldn't they if they all vote for her and I find it scummy?
- crucialityfactor: obvious since he was instructed to vote for her
- jimbobmacdoodle: votes patzer, doesn't want to participate in alien-hunting (at least from my reading)
- freezeblade: you're counting him as well, right? It's a one-liner, containing his null-vote (patzer, what a surprise) and reiterating my previous position on him.
- ConMan: votes patzer (see a pattern here?), for reasons that he's also guilty of
- Suzaku: votes patzer (it just stops being funny)
- #HBC | YOLOSWAG: wants us to lynch patzer but doesn't vote for obvious reasons

Basically the statement that 'of the 8 people other than patzer looked at in depth, 6 of them discuss patzer' is just blatantly false, as that 'discussion' consists only of me mentioning the fact that they voted for her.

Apart from these he mentions a couple of other things but doesn't have any additional reads of them.

And that's it. No direct links, just a bunch of maybe-s and could be-s with a few misreadings thrown in there for good measure. Obviously if the others don't take the effort to read through the thread on their own and verify jimbobmacdoodle's claims then it might even sound convincing. This is why it's important to check on the things claimed in any analysis, which can be facilitated by providing links to the posts in question. Otherwise people will accept anything at face-value and you can easily confuse/mislead them.

One small point at the end: For me being in the same team as patzer without chat-abilities would mean that we're Sibling Survivors (as I don't think anyone ever suggested that she's town). However I think I would have played completely differently as that alignment and not gone into full scum-hunting, as per my understanding we would win with an alien invasion as well so there would have been no benefit for us to stick out our necks and be noticable. I know this isn't much, just something to consider.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby SirGabriel » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:32 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:For your plan to work:

We'd have to know two aliens.
Freezeblade would have to be an anti-alien faction (werewolves would work in this case).
Freezeblade would have to be willing to work with town (jester or traitor would likely not).

That's a lot of conditionals for a plan. It looks like you are disproportionately giving the upside in order to get fb off the hook.

No, we don't need to know two aliens, we just need two suspected aliens as lynch targets. If we already knew who all the aliens were, we would have plenty of time to lynch them one by one.
My plan also works if freezeblade is an alien: if he welds the wrong people, we lynch him, and if he goes along with the plan, we still have until day 6, so we can afford to wait a couple days before lynching him. Also, I would recommend someone investigate him tonight (perhaps Echo?).
If you think freezeblade might be jester or traitor, then say so. I'm not really sure what traitor play would look like, but freezeblade doesn't look like a jester to me, and I don't believe anyone else has accused him of acting traitory/jestery.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby patzer » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:36 pm UTC

RoadieRich wrote:I'm not going to accept any "Test of loyalty" that isn't proposed by confirmed town - especially when the proposer was high on a few people's scum lists.


The proposal was supported by Sungura, who has not been on anyone's scum lists afaik.

So, you're saying that you won't accept any test of loyalty unless it was explicitly proposed by Lawrencelot. (The only confirmed townie)
And you don't even bother analysing the proposal to see if it's a good idea. Could at least go over the proposed loyalty test to tell us why you think it's a bad idea, rather than just giving an ad-hominem dismissal.

And then you use some rather convoluted logic to work out that CF and I are probably scum. Notable absence of any analysis of freezeblade, the top suspect at the moment.

I really don't like this. At all. FoS: RoadieRich

and I think we should seriously consider voting RR to block his nightkill.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby RoadieRich » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:48 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:I don't think that [crucialityfactor AND patzer] would run this kind of distancing on D1.
Why not? A feeling is not a refutation. There's no reason scum shouldn't be trying to distance themselves right from the start.

Sabrar wrote:Final votals on D1:
Opus_723 (6): Sungura, Znirk, mpolo, Van, patzer, Djehutynakht
patzer (4): Lawrencelot, jimbobmacdoodle, crucialityfactor, SirGabriel
freezeblade (3): moody7277, Vytron, Sabrar
4 other people with 1 vote each

If, as you assert, Patzer is town, CF is the third vote on a town lynch, which is always a suspicious position. Once is happenstance, Twice is coincidence, thrice is the start of a wagon.

Sabrar wrote:See above, crucialityfactor was NOT voting for Opus_723, he was voting for patzer.

CF's (forced) vote today is irrelevant.

Sabrar wrote:Aliens did not have a realistic chance on D1 of eliminating at least 5 Werewolves before they are all killed, given the number advantage and additional NK that the wolves have. Even if just 1 wolf survives, the NK is still out there.

When did I said anything about D1? It's quite likely impossible for aliens to wipe out wolves D1 (although I've not done the maths to prove it), but reducing scum numbers have got to be part of their goal for the end game.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby RoadieRich » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:51 pm UTC

patzer wrote:
RoadieRich wrote:I'm not going to accept any "Test of loyalty" that isn't proposed by confirmed town - especially when the proposer was high on a few people's scum lists.


The proposal was supported by Sungura, who has not been on anyone's scum lists afaik.

So, you're saying that you won't accept any test of loyalty unless it was explicitly proposed by Lawrencelot. (The only confirmed townie)
And you don't even bother analysing the proposal to see if it's a good idea. Could at least go over the proposed loyalty test to tell us why you think it's a bad idea, rather than just giving an ad-hominem dismissal.

And then you use some rather convoluted logic to work out that CF and I are probably scum. Notable absence of any analysis of freezeblade, the top suspect at the moment.

I really don't like this. At all. FoS: RoadieRich

and I think we should seriously consider voting RR to block his nightkill.
patzer wrote:
Sungura wrote:Awesome. Someone kill diemo so if jester they cant win. And if scum we are over and done with them. Kthx.


To be more precise, we should ask RoadieRich to kill diemo.

That would be a useful test of RR's loyalty.


Vote: patzer
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby RoadieRich » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:52 pm UTC

EBWOP: misread.

unvote
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby RoadieRich » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:02 pm UTC

(For clarification: the misread was that you claimed Sungura had proposed it)

Hell no, the proposal is a bad idea.

You think I should kill someone. You, who have been on a number of people's scum lists. Never mind that Sungura supported it, she certainly isn't confirmed town either.

Scum wants town dead. It doesn't matter if they're alien or wolf, they want less players trying to kill them. More than that, scum wants to decide who to kill so they are not killed themselves. You see why you, who are not looking particularly townie right now, are in no position to be proposing tests of loyalty? If anything, it is your loyalty that should be under examination.

In addition, I was under the impression that a number of players agreed yesterday that blocking kills when there are aliens to find was a somewhat scummy move.

Hell, it's not even you I'm considering targetting.

If Lawrencelot decides he has a good idea of who he wants me to kill, I will obey. Anyone else may as well whistle dixie.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Sungura » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:07 pm UTC

Ninja'd by Patzer (in the sense that, I was going to post basically exactly what they just said, but had to finish reading the thread first, and found their post).

Roadie Rich - I am PRO just NK'ing Diemo, did you completely miss that it was *my idea* and I am on basically everyone's TOWN list?? I even quoted Firefly perfectly, for the win :) Here is the entire thread, for your convenience:
Sungura wrote:
patzer wrote:
Sungura wrote:Awesome. Someone kill diemo so if jester they cant win. And if scum we are over and done with them. Kthx.


To be more precise, we should ask RoadieRich to kill diemo.

That would be a useful test of RR's loyalty.

I would be for that. I cannot abide by useless people.


RR - you have done NOTHING to convince me you are town, and you don't even seem to be reading (or at least, comprehending?) this game at all. Whether you are town or not, this means you are very dangerous to have a kill.

To all - I would happily, at this point, take RR's kill from him. I suggest we let him have some time to reply, and then decide. I am tempted to take it from him right now but feel that would be unfair to not give him time to reply how he missed these HUGE issues.

Moving on to other things - earlier I had pointed out CF seems extremely town but I was worried about how much they seemed to just agree with me. Since they have started offering more independent analysis. I am getting a town vibe now, but still something seems off (perhaps left over from early game). I think if they are not town, they are a likely lone wolf.

New list - added a few and added replacement names

SDK(freeze) - Alien
HBC - Alien
Frog(echo) - Alien
Suzaku - Alien?

Jimbob - Wolf
Fabiguy - Wolf


Diemo(Madge) - Jester or SCUM

CF - Town or Lone Wolf

DJ - Jester

TOWN:
Sungura
znirk
mpolo
Van
Lawrence
Moody
patzer - LOVER or SIB Survivor (and sib survivor is win-con with town, so both can be "town" for all practical purposes)
Sabrar - LOVER or SIB Survivor (and sib survivor is win-con with town, so both can be "town" for all practical purposes)

I am quite happy where my vote is, and it shall stay.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby moody7277 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:19 pm UTC

@SirG

We have a couple of anti-town groups that have multiple members (one that has fewer now), so ideal reads should break down that way. More likely you're going to get suspected connected couples, and there you run into a couple of indifferent to town couplets and one pro-town one. If he should weld & lynch one of these by mistake, are you still going to say lynch fb? I also find your lackadasicalness about the aliens to be alarming, not that you should be running around saying "WOE IS US! THE GRAYS ARE HERE!"

On my read of fb, I find him scummy because of what SDK did D1 and what he hasn't done D2. We already have jestery play from DJ and apparently Diemo/Madge. As I haven't been in a game with a traitor to town, I too don't know what that would look like.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Sabrar » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:23 pm UTC

RoadieRich wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I don't think that [crucialityfactor AND patzer] would run this kind of distancing on D1.
Why not? A feeling is not a refutation. There's no reason scum shouldn't be trying to distance themselves right from the start.

Yeah, in itself it's not enough, but you have to consider the circumstances as well which you fail to mention.

RoadieRich wrote:If, as you assert, Patzer is town,

Please show me where I said that. You can't. I think she's 3rd party.

RoadieRich wrote:CF's (forced) vote today is irrelevant.

And you know this how exactly? Seems pretty close to me right now.

I agree with Sungura, we should probably deprive RoadieRich of his kill.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Misnomer » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:31 pm UTC

zombie!Dimochka is replacing faubiguy with immediate effect.

Full votals to follow.
moody7277 wrote:The role of SDK in this game will be played by Misnomer. [/soapopera]

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Misnomer » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:40 pm UTC

Votals:

patzer (4): Djehutynakht, Suzaku, ConMan, Dr Ug
ConMan (2): mpolo, SirGabriel
Freezeblade (5): Sungura, moody7277, Lawrencelot, Sabrar, patzer
zombie!Dimochka (2): crucialityfactor, jimbobmacdoodle

Not voting (8): YOLOSWAG, zombie!Dimochka, Echo244, Snark, Madge, znirk, Van, roadierich

Game Status:
Freezeblade is currently voteless.
Znirk is currently a Nurse.
3 Tenure Committee members remain alive.
11 votes are required to majority lynch.


Oh look, a deadline!

Soft deadline set for 8pm GMT, Wednesday 2 December.
moody7277 wrote:The role of SDK in this game will be played by Misnomer. [/soapopera]

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Sabrar » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:44 pm UTC

Welcome back dimochka! I hope there will be no hard feelings if we lynch you tomorrow? :D

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Sungura » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:49 pm UTC

Is it just me, or is it funny how the people I and others have said we thought are scum are the ones who have gone dark, and needed replaced?
I mean it is prettymuch *all* of them on my list of scum, now haha. Almost like "oh crap I give up". :P I feel bad for replacements on suspected scum because it can be hard to get over initial play, but also, initial play is still very important (aka just because the replacement can play a better scum game doesn't mean they aren't still scum).

Updating for the zombie replacement (all can read, kinda putting this here for me)
Spoiler:
SDK(freeze) - Alien
HBC|YOLO - Alien
Frog(echo) - Alien
Suzaku - Alien?

Jimbob - Wolf
Fabiguy(zombie!Dimochka) - Wolf


Diemo(Madge) - Jester or SCUM

CF - Town or Lone Wolf

DJ - Jester

TOWN:
Sungura
znirk
mpolo
Van
Lawrence
Moody
SirG - been getting a townie vibe have yet to re-analyze though
patzer - LOVER or SIB Survivor (and sib survivor is win-con with town, so both can be "town" for all practical purposes)
Sabrar - LOVER or SIB Survivor (and sib survivor is win-con with town, so both can be "town" for all practical purposes)
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Sungura » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:51 pm UTC

EBWOP - ok with the soft deadline, then for RR to explain themselves to sufficient level is about 24 hours from now, so we don't hit night without a decision on that. And ugh I forgot to put them in my spoiler
Spoiler:
SDK(freeze) - Alien
HBC|YOLO - Alien
Frog(echo) - Alien
Suzaku - Alien?

Jimbob - Wolf
Fabiguy(zombie!Dimochka) - Wolf

RR - Scum or maybe druid?

Diemo(Madge) - Jester or SCUM

CF - Town or Lone Wolf

DJ - Jester

TOWN:
Sungura
znirk
mpolo
Van
Lawrence
Moody
SirG - been getting a townie vibe have yet to re-analyze though
patzer - LOVER or SIB Survivor (and sib survivor is win-con with town, so both can be "town" for all practical purposes)
Sabrar - LOVER or SIB Survivor (and sib survivor is win-con with town, so both can be "town" for all practical purposes)
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby SirGabriel » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:54 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:@SirG

We have a couple of anti-town groups that have multiple members (one that has fewer now), so ideal reads should break down that way. More likely you're going to get suspected connected couples, and there you run into a couple of indifferent to town couplets and one pro-town one. If he should weld & lynch one of these by mistake, are you still going to say lynch fb? I also find your lackadasicalness about the aliens to be alarming, not that you should be running around saying "WOE IS US! THE GRAYS ARE HERE!"

On my read of fb, I find him scummy because of what SDK did D1 and what he hasn't done D2. We already have jestery play from DJ and apparently Diemo/Madge. As I haven't been in a game with a traitor to town, I too don't know what that would look like.

I'm not following you. If we have two people who are suspected of being alien, we can weld and lynch them, regardless of whether there's anything other than suspicions that each of them are aliens to connect them. If we tell freezeblade to weld two people together, and he does, and we lynch them, and they turn out to be town, then why would we lynch freezeblade? As I stated multiple times, I am opposed to letting freezeblade choose his own targets; we would lynch him if he refused to target who the town asked him to target.
Not sure where the comment about lackadasicalness is coming from, since hunting aliens is my primary goal at the moment. I might not be good at recognizing scummy behavior, but I am good at recognizing the potential of various abilities, and I've been claiming that freezeblade's ability is useful for alien-hunting.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:06 pm UTC

Okay, I have a serious need to slap myself and get back in this game.

Thanksgiving break was busy. And I've been a bit sick.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Sungura » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:08 pm UTC

I wish Freezeblade would weld themselves with someone though :P Since I am pretty sure they are alien. And somehow, I doubt they would ;) And would rather just lynch them and get it over with.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Echo244 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:11 pm UTC

Right, no time to post over the weekend and suddenly I have pages of catchup, and not much chance to do detailed re-reads of people on my list.

So, patzer's third-party-ness is looking much more benign now. Sabrar's doing his best to look scummy, so I just don't know about him, but I wouldn't particularly be pushing either of them right now.

freezeblade hasn't posted since my last post, which looks like acceptance of fate and not helping town any. I'm good with that as a lynch today.

Suggested research targets have been those with kill powers - YOLOSWAG and RoadieRich - plus Dje because of all his roleblocks. It's also worth remembering that Madge gets a kill from tomorrow - no point investigating her, but worth paying attention to her posts.

YOLOSWAG has popped up - not posting much but good questions. Not too sure how to read that, could be anything, but has some town points off the back of the D1 Vytron kill. More for us to read from would be useful, though. Information helps town, as well as dead werewolves.

RoadieRich pops up after a reminder, suddenly active, will listen to Lawrencelot on the kill and anyone else proposing loyalty tests can go to hell. Well, aggressive, looking to prove themselves a little too hard?

Dje's been quiet. Until that post, a little above me.

Aaaaaand, we have a soft, cuddly deadline. So I'll

Research proposal: investigate RoadieRich

So my tenure committe have a chance to vote.

We can't self-target, as I understand it, so no freezeblade self-welding. And it wouldn't work for tonight, anyway.
Unstoppable force of nature. That means she/her/hers.
Has committed an act of treason.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Echo244 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:12 pm UTC

And while I think about it,

Vote: freezeblade
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Has committed an act of treason.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby SirGabriel » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:19 pm UTC

Sungura wrote:I wish Freezeblade would weld themselves with someone though :P Since I am pretty sure they are alien.

I would be in favor of that, except for this:
Misnomer wrote:Specific Game Rules:
9. Players cannot target themselves.



Given that my plan relies on a general consensus of who to weld, I don't think we'll be able to reach a consensus in the next two days, so I think it might be best for freezeblade not to target anyone tonight (if he somehow manages to avoid the lynch).

Looking at the people who have been voted for, I think lynching freezeblade today might not be the best idea, although I do think he might be alien. I would prefer to lynch ConMan (obviously, since that's where my vote is). patzer is probably third party, possibly werewolf (I think someone mentioned the possibility that Opus chose not to dive to protect patzer), but almost certainly not alien and thus not a good target. I don't have time to reread at the moment, but I don't recall faubiguy being particularly suspicious, and I would like to hear from zombie!Dimochka before lynching them.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Sabrar » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:39 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:Sabrar's doing his best to look scummy,

Would you mind expounding on this comment in more detail? I'm really curious, as I've mentioned before I'm new to these forums and I have no idea what established scum-tells you currently take as granted.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:06 pm UTC

Woah! It suddenly got very busy! I'm not going to make any detailed posts this evening, as I'm not feeling too good. I'll try and get onto the reads of our quieter players when I can. I'm thinking, Znirk, and Snark as suggested fairly yesterday, and one other. Suggestions welcome, but I reserve the right to ignore those and select one of my own. Since my head feels like it's stuffed full of cotton wool, I'll also try to take a closer look at Sabrar's refutation tomorrow. At first glance, I think it sounds reasonable, but I'm not sure I'm able to really pass judgement as to whether it is correct at this stage. One thing I do wish to say about this is that when I made that post, I was aware that I was looking for reasons that the two of you are team-mates. I saw many reasons that suggested that you could be, if looked at from one point of view. Yes, it's fair to say that some, if not most of my points were over-thinking things. Either way, I doubt cf was lying about you not being able to chat, so I don't see you really as a threat (you could be lone wolf or traitor, both anti-town, but those aren't as serious threats as aliens, or possibly werewolves). I've also decided that whilst patzer may still be scum, I'd prefer a faubiguy/dimochka lynch due to my aforementioned points.

I think I may have mentioned this with regards to other people, but I don't currently agree with insisting on certain players performing certain actions, when such actions are particularly serious (e.g. kills). The reason is that the player in question may not agree with the target for various valid reasons (e.g. they might have knowledge of that players alignment). I do believe that offering suggestions is a good idea, but wouldn't say that ignoring those is definitely scummy, though I would expect good explanations for the alternative choice.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Lawrencelot » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:22 pm UTC

Don't block Roadierich please. I have a question for him.

@Roadierich: to prove that you are a participating townie, please find and answer my last question to you and answer this new question: please give me an unordered list of 4 people, and let your real kill target be in the list.

Investigating Roadierich is a good move, I proposed it Day 1 but investigating Suzaku was also important.

I see where SirG is coming from with using the welding to our advantage, but freezeblade has been scummy (or rather: not townie) enough to overcome this. Plus, the potential damage if he's scum is pretty high.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Lawrencelot » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:24 pm UTC

Also, I have to say Sabrar sounds pretty convincing in saying he's not linked to patzer. Since we weren't planning on lynching patzer anyway (only a few people were), there was no need to go through the trouble. I have Sabrar as town atm.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby RoadieRich » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:27 pm UTC

Lawrencelot wrote:@roadierich: why should we let you kill?

I've never been much cop at defending myself, but I'll try.

Put quite simply, town needs kills. If town is entirely reliant on the lynch, we honestly don't stand a chance unless aliens slip up and give themselves away. Perhaps one or two of them have, but only one (out of a worst case of four) needs to be alive on D6 for it to be game over. In a game this big, it doesn't take much to hide in the shadows and not draw too much attention, which I (inadvertently) demonstrated until just recently. Part of me suspects that I could have gotten away with just making this post. But I'm not, because I think there are things that need to be brought to light. I could have played batman, striking from the shadows... that actually sounded quite attractive to me, in some ways.

I'm not, I'm here, and I'm doing my damnedest to post something with substance.

Lawrencelot wrote:please give me an unordered list of 4 people, and let your real kill target be in the list.

  • Diemo
  • Sungura
  • CF
  • DJ

Echo244 wrote:Research proposal: investigate RoadieRich

So my tenure committee have a chance to vote.

For information, I am on said committee, and have voted to approve (as I did yesterday).
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:45 pm UTC

Please shoot CF, Roadie.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Sungura » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:18 pm UTC

I am satisfied. Not happy i am on the list mind you, but I feel like I am on the same page with your list, it is what i would say in your shoes.

I suggest we let RR kill tonight and see how it goes.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby ConMan » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:53 pm UTC

@ConMan, could you try posting some thoughts on a few more players. If you couldn't lynch patzer, who would you lynch? Similarly, if you could prevent someone, other than Lawrencelot (confirmed mason) or Suzaku (probably town, but possibly not I guess) from being lynched or killed today, who would it be and why?

Who would I lynch? I might be tempted to go for one of the not-quite-lurkers like Dr Ug. Not because anything he's posted has contained a huge amount of scumtells, but because I'm concerned that by keeping quiet and posting a bare minimum to avoid modkills, he could well be scum slipping under the radar. I would have painted RoadieRich with the same brush, but he's definitely contributed more significantly recently and will probably be confirmed one way or the other by D3 so I'm happier waiting for a little more info on him.

By the same count, if not protecting Lawrencealot or Suzaku, Roadie might actually be my next choice of target for protection - he's provided content now, so he doesn't look so much like Scummy McLurksalot, he will have a kill tonight and will hopefully hit someone nice and scummy, and by tomorrow we will probably have enough information to determine his alignment with some degree of accuracy. And while Sungura is all over him for having some misreads, it's hard for me to hold that against him since I know full well how hard it is to keep everything straight about this game.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby ConMan » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:54 pm UTC

EBWOP: Incidentally, I wrote all that just before RR posted his kill-list, so besides getting ninja'd about 4 times there's also a bit of info there ... that really just supports my belief that RR would be a good person to protect tonight.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Madge » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:09 am UTC

Guys I have replaced diemo and I'm currently up to page 8 in reading. It could take a while, I don't even know what happened on d2 yet, but I am making this post so I can try and keep reading AFTER this post and then maybe work backwards as well to get to the history, because a 15 page thread is a lot to deal with.

Just looked up my role and must say I'm thrilled to be a vig, which is like my nightmare power because I am like the worst scumhunter in the universe :roll:
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby SirGabriel » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:40 am UTC

Madge wrote:Guys I have replaced diemo and I'm currently up to page 8 in reading. It could take a while, I don't even know what happened on d2 yet, but I am making this post so I can try and keep reading AFTER this post and then maybe work backwards as well to get to the history, because a 15 page thread is a lot to deal with.

Just looked up my role and must say I'm thrilled to be a vig, which is like my nightmare power because I am like the worst scumhunter in the universe :roll:

The good news is, you don't have to worry about who to kill until tomorrow, and by then we'll have a lot more investigation results for you to use.

Misnomer, can you update the Player Roles section of the OP to indicate dead players and replacements?

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Madge » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:03 am UTC

Reading the beginning of D2 now.

Not under mind control. (unless Modnomer forgot to tell me in my replacement PM, I have sent a quick confirmation/clarification PM over just in case)

Why are people voting Patzer? Wasn't patzer a mind control target, which means Patzer can't be an alien unless they're doing a gambit? Even if Patzer is a wolf that the aliens have identified for us shouldn't we be going for someone who is more likely to be an alien and leave patzer for later? (this is in response to stuff happening on Nov 23 so I'm not sure if it's an out of date observation, but having read the thread since I wrote the beginning of this sentence it looks like people aren't really cottoning on to that fact?)

I've now skimmed the entire thread. I still don't feel like I'm on top of everything, though.

Dr Ug - you can submit night actions all through the day, can you please submit a set of targets and a backup set of targets as soon as you can, if you haven't already done so?

That goes for all the investigative roles, really. If I survive long enough to kill I'll be doing that, too.

ninja: yep very glad my kill is a sleeping kill, it's bad enough that I had to read the thread :P
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby dimochka » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:04 am UTC

I'm catching up, about 1.5 pages to go so definitely post in a few hours. For now let me know if there any any specific questions you want me to answer that you were looked for responses from faubiguy.

A few quick things to response to / that stick out to me:
- I would really prefer not to be lynched. I don't think my role is that useful to us, but I think there are better candidates.
- Faubi did not use any actions at night. I don't know why
- Heather can feel free to target me
- I can't remember if Faubi did the Suzaku vote thing, I know there was some controversy on it but I believe that at this point it's more beneficial for everyone to be able to be targeted by him.
- Freezeblade doesn't seem like jester at all to me. Therefore likely scum. Diemo I'm unsure on. SirG looked suspicious (re:Freezeblade) but I need to finish reading before saying anything definitive on that. ConMan is also in the suspicious pile.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby ConMan » Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:00 am UTC

Madge wrote:Why are people voting Patzer? Wasn't patzer a mind control target, which means Patzer can't be an alien unless they're doing a gambit? Even if Patzer is a wolf that the aliens have identified for us shouldn't we be going for someone who is more likely to be an alien and leave patzer for later? (this is in response to stuff happening on Nov 23 so I'm not sure if it's an out of date observation, but having read the thread since I wrote the beginning of this sentence it looks like people aren't really cottoning on to that fact?)

At least for me, I'm working on the basis that since the aliens can, at most, control 4 votes, which at this stage is nowhere near enough to achieve anything, meaning that there isn't a good reason (for me at least) to trust that the claimed vote target means anything.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:50 am UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Please shoot CF, Roadie.

Please explain yourself in more detail. I know that you found crucialityfactor scum here, but you didn't give any concrete reason for it. Gunning for someone based on a hunch (without allowing anyone else to analyze your thought process) does not seem very cooperative.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Lawrencelot » Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:54 am UTC

Ok I'm not blocking Roadierich. Anyone who does without discussing will feel my wrath (yes I'm confirmed town so I can be a hypocrite). Discussion is still possible of course.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:19 pm UTC

@all: Soft deadline is Wednesday evening GMT, based on previous experience we can expect that all results and pm-s will be available by Thursday morning GMT at the latest. With 6 possible night-kills and investigations, 4 possible mind-controls and a host of other powers it is very important to have all the results in as soon as possible. If you currently know that you won't be able to post on Thursday (even just a short one saying "I'm not mind-controlled") then please let us know now so we won't have to wait for you. Thank you!

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:49 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Please shoot CF, Roadie.

Please explain yourself in more detail. I know that you found crucialityfactor scum here, but you didn't give any concrete reason for it. Gunning for someone based on a hunch (without allowing anyone else to analyze your thought process) does not seem very cooperative.
I actually think killing off a hunch in a large game like this is fine, but sure.

I don't buy that a townie would use a "discover if X has outside communication" power on you N1. When I read over your D1 play, I cannot fathom how one would find you the scummiest player especially when we had a number of players the Town was discussing as a potential lynch. He could've gone for a player that was on the table to save town time and effort barking up the wrong tree but went with a player who frankly I don't find likely to be scum.

I also get a bad feeling from his posts, but I offer the above because it's more concrete. I also find a number of players unlikely to be scum and he's in that leftover pile of players I don't.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D2: B is for Blood

Postby mpolo » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:01 pm UTC

Wow, that was a lot to read. I am pretty convinced by Sungura at this point.

Roadie Rich is somewhat "prickly", but I am willing to wait for a result on him.

Con Man's last post was better than his super-defensive thing a while back.

Unvote: Con Man

Vote: freezeblade

Because following Sungura worked last time, the point about so many of the replacements being under suspicion, and the general argument against him, combined with general lurkiness.
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