Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

For your simulated organized crime needs.

Moderators: jestingrabbit, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Van
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:15 pm UTC
Location: 39.74, -105.12ish

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Van » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:51 pm UTC

I suppose we can assume that secondary win conditions tag along with the player unless they are logically inconsistent (Minestrone can't kill Stu without a kill, etc).

Minestrone wrote:This may not be a normal game but as you yourself have even admitted by now it's still not a good idea to massclaim. So I don't see what your point is?
I've agreed that it isn't a good idea to mass claim (town roles, mind - I don't think there is any risk to claiming previously owned scum roles) until we have confirmation that the spinning will continue. Because the room spin was the entire motivation for claiming.

Minestrone's second post wrote:That's not an accurate representation of what I said. I never said that you never admitted to being wrong, only that you stuck with the idea for a couple posts until it was clear everyone was against you, which you did.
Minestrone's first post wrote:I don't like the way Van is talking about mass claiming on the assumption that roles will keep changing without recognizing that a) the room has stopped spinning and b) there's no way the roles can just keep changing if this game is going to work at all. ( ... ) Other than Van's suggestion (and more scummily, their continuing to push it for a couple posts instead of dropping it) I haven't noticed anything standing out as scummy in today's discussion.
??? In your first post, you condemn me for supporting my own suggestion, and in your second post you condemn me for agreeing that my suggestion has weaknesses. And again, you've somehow missed that I still think it is a worthy idea if the roomspin continues. I literally have not changed my stance, and you're saying I'm defending it too much and not enough.

My vote stays.
Oregonaut wrote:You are a fucking idiot. (Insult.)
You say that you disapprove of sex before marriage, but you are fucking that idiot. (Ad hominem.)
You say that you disapprove of sex outside of marriage, but you are fucking your mom. (Ad mominem.)

User avatar
Vytron
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:11 am UTC
Location: The Outside. I use She/He/Her/His/Him as gender neutral pronouns :P

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:46 am UTC

Van wrote:Regarding recent posts: it's she :P


Okay BAM! Check my location. The fact that I call people he/his/him doesn't mean I assume they're male. I have apologized enough about it, so I finally officially declare my instance about it on my Location box. I'll only use she/her/her for people that have let me know they want female pronouns used for them, in either their Location, Signature, or in public. Hopefully I'll be able to point out there in future stance (because, it happens to me a lot.)

So, huh, Van, she's been speaking to me and that has caused me to like her more, but in the discussions with Mines I'm still siding with Mines. But I'd rather lynch inf now than either of them.

Also, if inf actually flips town I'd like to lynch SDK. He's playing friendly neighbor, but usually he's an active scumhunter that comes with suspicions and votes of his own, instead of following people. He has worked magic before so now his meta is that if he's a sheep like on this game, or actually builds cases on people but it turns out they keep flipping town, he's scum. Sorry SDK.

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby SDK » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:29 am UTC

That's okay. Apology accepted.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
moody7277
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:06 pm UTC
Location: Extreme south Texas

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby moody7277 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:41 pm UTC

So, this game did not quiet down over the weekend like I was hoping (page and a half catch-up :roll: ).

Provisional townie status to the former scum:

Vytron
Madge
fb

Van discussion is interesting, both about and by her, and RR's confirmation as to the role Van has now being his on D1 seems to imply that Van is town (although with secondary conditions that are not in town's interests). I was ambivalent on lynching Van, but with this info I think it's a definite no. I also think RR's confirmation was the kind of thing kalira was wanting me to wait for before decoding the breadcrumb.
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby SDK » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:01 pm UTC

Okay, two things.

1) If someone currently has a role that someone else claimed previously, I think they should claim it (provided that's not an extremely stupid thing to do). For example, if someone else is currently Sid, they should claim. I want confirmation that these roles are being passed around instead of just changing at random.

2) Van, since you've been keeping track, can you recap who the claimed-former mafia teams were? In your chart you've got Nebuduck pointing at a couple people as having been mafia previously, but then he flipped scum. I can't find that in a skim of his posts, and I don't see a reaction to that in Carlington's posts either. I'm trying to figure out how people are flipping here (ie: did Nebuduck change roles, then flip his original, or was he entirely lying when he said he'd changed - and what does that mean for his claimed former team?).
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
weiyaoli
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 2:21 pm UTC

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:07 pm UTC

SDK wrote:Okay, two things.

1) If someone currently has a role that someone else claimed previously, I think they should claim it (provided that's not an extremely stupid thing to do). For example, if someone else is currently Sid, they should claim. I want confirmation that these roles are being passed around instead of just changing at random.


We have a way of confirming 1) without any person claiming, since they can use the Wedding Singer's PA announcement anon.
And you thought I was crazy...

User avatar
Van
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:15 pm UTC
Location: 39.74, -105.12ish

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Van » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:12 pm UTC

SDK wrote:2) Van, since you've been keeping track, can you recap who the claimed-former mafia teams were? In your chart you've got Nebuduck pointing at a couple people as having been mafia previously, but then he flipped scum. I can't find that in a skim of his posts, and I don't see a reaction to that in Carlington's posts either. I'm trying to figure out how people are flipping here (ie: did Nebuduck change roles, then flip his original, or was he entirely lying when he said he'd changed - and what does that mean for his claimed former team?).
Yeah, I kind of wish I had included links to these claims (at least in my more detailed notes). Let me try to rebuild it.

Kingsley's people:
freezeblade - claims Smoking Monkey, says madge, Vytron were scumbuddies
madge - says she is 1 of 4, Vytron is a scumbuddy, claims Silent Monk
vytron - claimed Kingsley, claims fb/madge as scumbuddies

Either I'm missing something, or we're missing one player in Kingsley's gang. Who was the original 4th?

Marshall's people:
Nebuduck - claims he, Carlington, ElectricHaze, cycoden were in it on D1 start
cycoden - Has only posted once.
Carlington - never claimed
ElectricHaze - says Nebuduck's claim was a lie

So, hmm. We know that when they died, Nebuduck (D1 lynch - Marshall) and MasterOfAll (D2 modkill - Black Doug) were both members of mafia 2. I missed EH's rebuttal of Nebuduck's claim the first time, which sucks - if EH had confirmed it, then there is a pretty good chance cycoden and Carlington were D1 mafia. At the time, I was wondering if Nebuduck had been swapped into scum after being lynched? I don't know - should we toss that out? Or, if someone owned Black Doug before MasterOfAll, now would be a great time to claim it and ID your D1 mafiosos.

My gut feeling is that MoA was not mafia on D1, and became extremely angry after he inherited the role on N1, thus asking for his modkill. Also on re-reading that post, I just noticed that he said:
MoA wrote:I was originally Jade, Town, and didn't actually have any powers, but I was supposed to send a target every night to try to find Carlos/Tyler.
So. It looks like Jade is Carlos' mom, and may just want to find me? I guess I'll find out tonight.

Here's an updated table - the last one classified ThinkSweet as a D1-SK, but I can't find where I got that from, so I removed it.
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

                                               Initial Role                            after swap 1               after swap 2/N1
Nebuduck                        Black Doug/Marshall's Mafia  Lyncher, same power,Died:Marshall/Godf                             
Aardvarki                                                                                                                       
Thinksweet                                                                                                           Role changed
Frogman                                                                            Kimmy/Flavor cop                  Role changed
_infina_                                                                                    Officer                  Role changed
Jar'O'Jam                                                                                                                       
weiyaoli                                     Wedding Singer                                                          Role changed
cycoden                      Marshall's Mafia - by Nebuduck                                                                     
Minestrone                                     Melissa (SK)                                                          Role changed
Carlington                    Marshall (Scum - by Nebuduck)       Died: Mike Tyson's tiger/town vig                             
Van                                           Fat Tazer Kid                                                                Carlos
quintopia                                                      Died: Fat Tazer Kid, town rb/lyncher                             
madge                     breadcrumbed RB Silent Monk, Scum                                                          Role changed
maj/SDK                                                                                                                         
Freezeblade    Smoking MonkeyKingsley's Gang w Vytron&madge              Role changed at some point                             
Azrael001                              Chow, "not quite SK"                                                                     
moody7277                                                                                                            Role changed
sungura/Murrin                                                                         Role changed                             
kalira                                                                                                                           
ElectricHaze                 Marshall's Mafia - by Nebuduck                                                                     
RoadieRich                                    1/day Daychat                                                          Role changed
ConMan                                                 Phil                                                                     
VectorZero                                                                                             Role changed at some point
MasterOfAll                                            Jade                              Changed N1  Died:Black Doug, rb/Marshall
SPACKlick                mason Cop, lynch-related wincon      given rolenames, power, still mason                               
mega/Vytron                                        Kingsley                            Chat with VZ              Gained nightchat
Unrelated, but wow do we have lurking going on. cycoden has only posted once, Murrin has never posted, Jar'o'Jam/Aardvarki haven't posted in almost a month, etc.
Oregonaut wrote:You are a fucking idiot. (Insult.)
You say that you disapprove of sex before marriage, but you are fucking that idiot. (Ad hominem.)
You say that you disapprove of sex outside of marriage, but you are fucking your mom. (Ad mominem.)

User avatar
_infina_
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:55 pm UTC
Location: R'lyeh

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby _infina_ » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:58 pm UTC

Ok, so I missed part of MoA's posts, and now my theory is at least partially useless. MoA was also not completely revealing with the original win condition. It is now a fairly easy one to lose. I still am not entirely trusting of former scum, based on the boilerplate like warning in my role change pm about win conditions.

unvote

Vytron wrote:Why Madge and not me? I know what's her new role, and I know it's a rule useful to town, so it's a mistake to lynch her.

It was a name I could remember as claiming former scum, as all I could remember of you was the avatar (which I had somehow confused with b.i.o...) and I was on my phone. This is the first chance I have had to start to go over things on an actual computer.

Van, I originally was an officer. My role only changed during the night. This could be important if we can nail down all of the changes to roles for people, unless two players had the same role at the same time...
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Only if your friends know what rhino dong smells like.

Malo mbwa mwitu

User avatar
kalira
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:03 pm UTC

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby kalira » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:36 pm UTC

Just for clarification's sake, I thought I implied it in my first(?) post today, but yes, my role has changed (during N1). I was and continue to be town, so I'm holding off on any roleclaiming until/unless it's needed.

frogman claimed he used to be flavorcop. Can someone clarify that for me? I can't access the mafiascum wiki here.

I've been reading along, but trying to avoid posting much from work recently, so I'll try to catch up commentary-wise from home.

I'm going to apologize now, however, for my total inability to remember more than like 3 character's name + alignment combo.
plytho wrote:Isn't bowling just a subcategory of pottery?

User avatar
Van
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:15 pm UTC
Location: 39.74, -105.12ish

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Van » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:33 pm UTC

I have an idea. I received my new role at the end of N1, exactly 10 minutes before Dr Ug posted D2. But if you recall from MoA's post...
MasterOfAll wrote:Sure, some of you got your roles swapped during D1, but many of us (including me) didn't get the new role until the start of N1.
Idea: new scum were given their new roles at the start of N1, so that they could discuss with their scumbuddies.

So let's review and carefully look at when people have said their new roles were given.

Aardvarki - no posts in D2
ThinkSweet - "given my new role which I was told over night"
Frogman - "I did a flavorcop on Vytron, but because my role changed partway through the night I didn't get the results"
_infina_ - "My role only changed during the night."
Jar'O'Jam - no posts in D2
weiyaoli - "I have a theory regarding why my role only changed at the start of N1"
cycoden - no posts in D2
Minestrone - "I was an SK yesterday but my role changed as night fell"
Van - ...
madge - "my role and alignment changed last night, too"
SDK - did not claim a time
Freezeblade - did not claim a time
Azrael001 - changed on D1
moody7277 - did not claim a time
Murrin - no posts in D2
kalira - "my role has changed (during N1)"
ElectricHaze - has not claimed any role swap
RoadieRich - "My role also changed as night fell"
ConMan - changed on D1
VectorZero - claimed a role change, did not specify when
SPACKlick - changed on D1
Vytron - changed on D1

So. If you follow my reasoning, the only reason someone would be swapped at the start of N1 is if they had a role which needed to participate in N1, or were gaining one. A doctor isn't at a massive disadvantage from having their N1 target selected for them - but a mafia member having to play through D2 without having spoken to their scumbuddies is kind of painful. If you buy this reasoning, this bodes extremely poorly for RR and weiyaoli, who were relatively-confirmed D1 town, but were swapped at the start of N1. Thoughts?
Oregonaut wrote:You are a fucking idiot. (Insult.)
You say that you disapprove of sex before marriage, but you are fucking that idiot. (Ad hominem.)
You say that you disapprove of sex outside of marriage, but you are fucking your mom. (Ad mominem.)

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby SDK » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:40 pm UTC

And Minestrone was also swapped early because he previously held a killing role? I'd buy it. Biggest question for me then is why some of the mafia were swapped Day 1. Or did they just claim they were swapped after Vytron outted them (like Nebuduck did)? I'll have to check into that.

Hey Dr Mod! What's the plan with all these people who never post?
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
weiyaoli
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 2:21 pm UTC

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:41 pm UTC

Given I'm pretty sure someone else has claimed the role I now have as their old role who can confirm I'm town, that theory is easy to disprove. I gained a night action I was able to choose the target for.
And you thought I was crazy...

User avatar
weiyaoli
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 2:21 pm UTC

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:43 pm UTC

EBWOP: I think it's currently anti-town for me to claim my role though in the thread though.
And you thought I was crazy...

User avatar
Dr Ug
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:58 am UTC
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Dr Ug » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:44 pm UTC

There is a loud ringing of audio feedback followed by some static. Suddenly a voice booms out, subtly different from the voice of yesterday:

"Oh hi there. Is this thing still on? Hey everybody, it’s me, the wedding singer again. Well, sort of me. I don’t remember making that announcement yesterday. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I had a very weird night. I woke up with certain… parts… that I didn’t have yesterday. Let me tell you, it makes for some confusion on the harmonies.

"Anyway, I don’t know how much anyone cares, but I definitely saw that guy quintopia with a mattress up on the roof yesterday -- he was kinda delirious, but I don’t know how he ended up with that taser. There should be someone out there who can confirm mattress guy is still around, but I’m cool if they don’t come forward. I know he’s here. Somewhere. Don’t know what he’s up to, though.

"Guess I'm going to be the only one working here at the hotel for the foreseeable future, so make sure you jerks clean up after yourselves!

"Beginning to get a bit lonely. On the upside, I just found out there’s a Wikipedia page for my band! SWEET!"


Aardvarki, Jar'O'Jam, cycoden and Murrin have been modprodded. They have three days to post or will be modkilled (unless some replacements miraculously turn up)
Where did my old signature go? :(

User avatar
ThinkSweet
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:04 am UTC
Location: Australia

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby ThinkSweet » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:50 pm UTC

SDK wrote:So... why aren't we doing a mass-previous-role claim? If we can identify all the roles in the game, we can narrow down the scum team every day just by doing another mass claim. Once we get all the roles nailed, I think it would be to our benefit to claim our actual roles. Assuming they keep changing, of course.


Well despite the fact people could probably work out my previous role, I don't want to explicitly claim at this point. Is there any chance that if someone's secondary (previous day) win is from Lynching someone that they might try and go for the previous version of that role just to test it? People have got to keep the original Mason/Scum PM groups so it's not like the D1 roles have no bearing on the current game. I'm not completely anti claiming, but I'm just not sure it's a great idea to have everyone claim 100%. I've never played a game like this before though so maybe it will end up being the best way forward?

Van wrote:So. If you follow my reasoning, the only reason someone would be swapped at the start of N1 is if they had a role which needed to participate in N1, or were gaining one. A doctor isn't at a massive disadvantage from having their N1 target selected for them - but a mafia member having to play through D2 without having spoken to their scumbuddies is kind of painful. If you buy this reasoning, this bodes extremely poorly for RR and weiyaoli, who were relatively-confirmed D1 town, but were swapped at the start of N1. Thoughts?


As weiyaoli pointed out, this is a good way to see who has a night action but not necessarily determines whether it's a scum or a town aligned action. It's definitely something to keep in mind though. I was actually a little suspicious of RR's jumping on the SPACKlick bandwagon at the start of the day since he was implying he found SPACKlick scummy D1 when I read him as very Townie.

I'm pretty curious what Jar'O'Jam has to say about yesterday given he didn't seem to be able to speak properly yesterday but no-one else has that problem today so far. Could be one of the non-posters I suppose since Jar'O'Jam didn't post until people were asking for Modprods on him yesterday.
</rant>

User avatar
Vytron
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:11 am UTC
Location: The Outside. I use She/He/Her/His/Him as gender neutral pronouns :P

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:55 am UTC

Van wrote:Either I'm missing something, or we're missing one player in Kingsley's gang. Who was the original 4th?


There was no original 4. We were originally 3. On the night, a 4th person was added to the chat group. I still don't know why, or how, but in any case I won't out them, as I believe that's a personal decision.

_infina_ wrote:It was a name I could remember as claiming former scum, as all I could remember of you was the avatar (which I had somehow confused with b.i.o...)


Oh, right. As a clarification I have to say that I changed my avatar at August 2. I used to have this avatar:

Image

(it was never my avatar, I was participating in an avatar switch activity with faubiguy and switched back because of FaiD)

--------

I like Van's speculation and would be willing to lynch RR or weiyaoily (rats, I can't type that blind) weiyaoili (/copy pasta) if nothing better comes up.

User avatar
Madge
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:45 am UTC
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Madge » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:11 am UTC

I am looking very suspiciously at anyone who is being cagey about their former role; strikes me as current scum wanting to keep their previously-town role available as a fake claim if it comes to it.

Vytron - you are mistaken. I was told in my first PM a list of 3 fellow scummates I could chat with. We started out as 4.
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

User avatar
VectorZero
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:22 am UTC
Location: Kensington

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby VectorZero » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:25 am UTC

Madge: please explain how you think that works against towns interest. As I see it, a current-scum's previous town role is now a town role for another player and will either be revealed on death or be open to a counter claim.

vote: madge

I get the feeling one of vytron and madge is still scummy and have the knives out for the other.
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

User avatar
Madge
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:45 am UTC
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Madge » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:15 am UTC

I was thinking about what I'd think in that situation. Let's say I'm town, and my role is say, Grace the doctor*, and I get real!Madge's old scum roleblocker. Now, I need to say I've changed because everyone's expected to have changed at this point; but, ever the foreward thinking scum player, I realise that eventually, if I keep my role (worst case) I will need to claim something. Now, if I make up a role - let's say a survivor with one-shot kill immunity - then there's a risk of everyone else in the game saying "no, I never had that role". If enough people say that, and the claim is bad enough, you can end up in hot water.

However, hypothetical!Madge has a good fake claim - she can claim to be Grace, which is certain to be counter-claimed, but that's better than nothing - but she'll only do it if she's forced to, or perhaps in a fit of wine to say that scum wouldn't claim that, or perhaps to counterclaim if the real Grace is in hot water. Bonus: if our roles flip around in the future, then someone who had Grace in the second iteration might say "yeah, I had that role last iteration!". However, once Grace is dead, this obviously becomes equivalent to being in the first situation.

Now, add to THAT the bonus that town gets from effectively making this an open setup (albeit with mysterious mechanics) if we do a full mass-old-role claim, I don't see a town reason not to do it. Nobody's made what I consider to be a compelling argument.

*if this resembles a real hangover character it's purely coincidental
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

User avatar
Vytron
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:11 am UTC
Location: The Outside. I use She/He/Her/His/Him as gender neutral pronouns :P

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:42 am UTC

Madge wrote:Vytron - you are mistaken. I was told in my first PM a list of 3 fellow scummates I could chat with. We started out as 4.


:shock:

Okay, that's right. I've checked the original PM that mega (the 'player I replaced) got, and indeed, it mentions the four of us. I, in fact, thought we were 3 and even made a Gojoe post mentioning my 2 scumbuddies (nobody can see it, but once I die and flip town they'll know that I missed the name of this 4th person, and was surprised when they appeared on the mafia chat.)

VectorZero <-> Madge

Okay guys, don't fight, you know I have PM communication with each other, and I can tell you you both are protown. I'm willing to be lynched so you can trust each other. I don't want any of the people I'm chatting with in private to be lynched, because I know they're not scum (except for Van...)

User avatar
RoadieRich
The Black Hand
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:40 am UTC
Location: Behind you

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby RoadieRich » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:27 pm UTC

Madge wrote:I was thinking about what I'd think in that situation. Let's say I'm town, and my role is say, Grace the doctor*, and I get real!Madge's old scum roleblocker. Now, I need to say I've changed because everyone's expected to have changed at this point; but, ever the foreward thinking scum player, I realise that eventually, if I keep my role (worst case) I will need to claim something. Now, if I make up a role - let's say a survivor with one-shot kill immunity - then there's a risk of everyone else in the game saying "no, I never had that role". If enough people say that, and the claim is bad enough, you can end up in hot water.

However, hypothetical!Madge has a good fake claim - she can claim to be Grace, which is certain to be counter-claimed, but that's better than nothing - but she'll only do it if she's forced to, or perhaps in a fit of wine to say that scum wouldn't claim that, or perhaps to counterclaim if the real Grace is in hot water. Bonus: if our roles flip around in the future, then someone who had Grace in the second iteration might say "yeah, I had that role last iteration!". However, once Grace is dead, this obviously becomes equivalent to being in the first situation.

Now, add to THAT the bonus that town gets from effectively making this an open setup (albeit with mysterious mechanics) if we do a full mass-old-role claim, I don't see a town reason not to do it. Nobody's made what I consider to be a compelling argument.

*if this resembles a real hangover character it's purely coincidental


The risk is that the "shuffle" isn't random, that there's a pattern to it. In which case, scum have enough information to work out exactly who has which role - they have Me->Van, and one point from each member of the scum team, which sounds like it started at about four per. That means they have five data points each, which should be more than enough to spot any pattern.

I'd maybe even go as far as to say that it was hinted at in the flavour: the room was spinning (i.e. simply rotating) rather than, say wobbling or swaying, which would suggest a more complex shuffle.

I can definitely say it wasn't a straight 9-position rotation (based on Van now having my D1 role) - I don't have _infina_'s claimed D1 role. That doesn't, however, mean it wasn't a more complex, yet still calculable transformation.
73, de KE8BSL loc EN26.

User avatar
Vytron
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:11 am UTC
Location: The Outside. I use She/He/Her/His/Him as gender neutral pronouns :P

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:14 pm UTC

Scum has enough information to figure out who is who? How come? If I have private communication with 3 different groups and still have no idea who is who other than the people that has given me privileged information?

What makes scum groups special? If I was scum I wouldn't trust my scumbuddies, so I wouldn't tell them my new role in private, if everyone does the same then scum is in the dark just like us.

User avatar
RoadieRich
The Black Hand
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:40 am UTC
Location: Behind you

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby RoadieRich » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:13 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:If I was scum I wouldn't trust my scumbuddies, so I wouldn't tell them my new role in private, if everyone does the same then scum is in the dark just like us.


You must be new to mafia: trusting scumbudies is the only realistic chance Scum has of winning, to do otherwise is breaking Rule 0: You must play to win.

Scum wins by having more information available than town.

The suggestion otherwise is... well, I don't even.

Vote vytron
73, de KE8BSL loc EN26.

User avatar
frogman
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:57 am UTC
Location: Corvallis, OR

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby frogman » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:44 pm UTC

kalira wrote:frogman claimed he used to be flavorcop. Can someone clarify that for me? I can't access the mafiascum wiki here.


Essentially, I would have learned the target's role name (e.g. Fat Taser Kid) but not their alignment nor their ability. This is normally what a flavorcop means, at least, and since I didn't receive anything for my night one investigation I don't have any evidence to the contrary.

Van wrote:I have an idea. I received my new role at the end of N1, exactly 10 minutes before Dr Ug posted D2. But if you recall from MoA's post...
MasterOfAll wrote:Sure, some of you got your roles swapped during D1, but many of us (including me) didn't get the new role until the start of N1.
Idea: new scum were given their new roles at the start of N1, so that they could discuss with their scumbuddies.


Woah, this is good! I didn't even think of that. I disagree with the argument that it would show simply who has a night action, because I have a night action as a part of my new role, and I wasn't informed until the end of the night. In fact, anyone claiming otherwise looks very suspicious to me.

Vote: weiyaoli

Also, I apologize for not being as active as I should be. I commented here on the things I have strong opinions about, but if anyone is interested on hearing my thoughts on something else, please let me know.
yeah yeah yeah

User avatar
RoadieRich
The Black Hand
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:40 am UTC
Location: Behind you

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby RoadieRich » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:05 pm UTC

So what you're saying is "Dr Ug didn't think of this thing that would break the game if it got out"?
73, de KE8BSL loc EN26.

User avatar
Vytron
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:11 am UTC
Location: The Outside. I use She/He/Her/His/Him as gender neutral pronouns :P

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:24 pm UTC

Vote: RoadieRich (OMGUS)

I don't mind being lynched, but in a game like this, you can't be sure your scumbuddies are your scumbuddies, or if they're lynchers/killers looking for you.

In this game, normal concepts don't apply, and RR should have been aware of this by now.

It's actually a scumtell for RR to be gloating about what the mafia is doing (it's not speculation, he knows they have figured out who everyone is because he has talked with them!) Plus, Van's argument that RR changed role to scum at the right moment to have nightchat.

UnVote
Vote: RoadieRich (emphasis)

User avatar
RoadieRich
The Black Hand
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:40 am UTC
Location: Behind you

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby RoadieRich » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:53 pm UTC

Fine, lynch me, if that's what it takes to finally disprove the crackpot theories that hinder town from actually making progress in the game.
73, de KE8BSL loc EN26.

User avatar
freezeblade
Posts: 1406
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:11 pm UTC
Location: Oakland

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby freezeblade » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:05 pm UTC

RoadieRich wrote:So what you're saying is "Dr Ug didn't think of this thing that would break the game if it got out"?


Pretty much this. This seems like a very tenious thing to hang a lynch on, and a pretty nooby mod thing to do. Dr. Ug isn't a nooby mod.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

User avatar
weiyaoli
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 2:21 pm UTC

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:09 pm UTC

Can we stop trying to mod-game? It's not looking at people's behaviours or actions, or scum-hunting. I know for a fact Van's latest speculation is not wholly correct, since I am town. We're already pretty directionless here in D2

@RR, knowing Vytron's role, unless he got recruited by a cult, he is 100% town. Please unvote.
And you thought I was crazy...

User avatar
Vytron
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:11 am UTC
Location: The Outside. I use She/He/Her/His/Him as gender neutral pronouns :P

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:37 pm UTC

Wait, how do you know my role?

User avatar
weiyaoli
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 2:21 pm UTC

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:42 pm UTC

weiyaoli wrote:My role changed overnight. I can definitely see what Vytron was talking about with regards to "incentive" and the back and forth at the end of the day could be about. Is there any reason to not disclose this now? I assume many people's roles have changed?

However, I am very suspicious about my result for my night action. I targeted Vytron N1 and gained a win. My new role had a bonus win if I ever targeted a specific role in the game, so to do so N1 seems fairly lucky to me. *shrug* (Is there anything helpful that the mod informed you about Vytron?)

Also I can understand why Vytron retains the ability to night-chat, but I am still confused because I lost my old ability when my role changed. Did you still have a NK?


I gained a win.
And you thought I was crazy...

User avatar
RoadieRich
The Black Hand
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:40 am UTC
Location: Behind you

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby RoadieRich » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:09 pm UTC

Unvote
73, de KE8BSL loc EN26.

User avatar
weiyaoli
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 2:21 pm UTC

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:36 pm UTC

Are we all just waiting for the prodded people to either get modkilled or post or something?
And you thought I was crazy...

User avatar
Vytron
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:11 am UTC
Location: The Outside. I use She/He/Her/His/Him as gender neutral pronouns :P

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:48 pm UTC

I don't know. I gotta say this is the game with the lowest {content/number of players} I've ever seen. I think we'd benefit from 48 hour deadlines or something.

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby SDK » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:45 pm UTC

We could also just agree to start lynching. Not everything has to be mod controlled. Eternal Day 1's are going to make this game a crapshoot anyway.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
weiyaoli
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 2:21 pm UTC

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:50 pm UTC

Well I mean if they are just going to be modkilled, I'd prefer it to happen during the day, so we have some time to discuss stuff before lynching. But I just don't have any other useful stuff to add to the thread right now, so I've not been posting.
And you thought I was crazy...

User avatar
Van
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:15 pm UTC
Location: 39.74, -105.12ish

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Van » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:32 pm UTC

Yeah. I've got nothing to go on besides some poorly received(/thought out?) ideas. I don't know how to handle Day 1 take two.
Oregonaut wrote:You are a fucking idiot. (Insult.)
You say that you disapprove of sex before marriage, but you are fucking that idiot. (Ad hominem.)
You say that you disapprove of sex outside of marriage, but you are fucking your mom. (Ad mominem.)

User avatar
frogman
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:57 am UTC
Location: Corvallis, OR

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby frogman » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:38 pm UTC

I say we wait for modprod kills to come out on the players mentioned - that might give us something more to go off of.

Also, you've all convinced me that my vote was ill-thought-out.

Unvote
yeah yeah yeah

User avatar
ConMan
Shepherd's Pie?
Posts: 1691
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:56 am UTC
Location: Beacon Alpha

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby ConMan » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:53 pm UTC

Yeah, while I'm not happy with losing so many people to mod-kill, it definitely looks like that's how we'll get the most information right now. And in the absence of said info,

Unvote
pollywog wrote:
Wikihow wrote:* Smile a lot! Give a gay girl a knowing "Hey, I'm a lesbian too!" smile.
I want to learn this smile, perfect it, and then go around smiling at lesbians and freaking them out.

User avatar
ElectricHaze
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 2:54 am UTC

Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby ElectricHaze » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:24 am UTC

Ideally the players probed will join the discussion or be replaced, but if not waiting for the info on roles and such certainly won't hurt. I've been slammed at work the past 2 days. There was a contractor working on our fire supression system and they tripped the main breaker which caused the super computing cluster I work on to crash :(

I'm sure there is enough information floating around at this point to get some reads and come up with connections and theories. Hopefully I will have some time to go back and read some more of the stuff that happened today more in depth.

Additionally, for the list my role did change towards the end of day 1. I'm still on the fence about claiming original roles. I've been giving it thought, and I don't really see how it helps. There is no reason to lie about a previous role as most of the players who had scum roles have done so already. So far it hasn't turned up a reliable way to pin down who has what roles now, and it gives info about what town power roles scum players need to worry about playing around. That being said I don't think that is a big deal so if we come to a consensus on it and figure out what benefit it would be to us I don't have a problem claiming my previous role if that's what we decide to do.
Who has never killed an hour? Not casually or without thought, but carefully: a premeditated murder of minutes.


Return to “Mafia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests