Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

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RoadieRich
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby RoadieRich » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Nebuduck is looking suspicious. I'm looking suspicious. I thought SPACKlick was suspicious, but I can't remember why. Two replacements haven't posted yet.

It seems like at least half of us don't actually know what our power does, doesn't do, or doesn't tell us it that does.

My information gathering attempt got people talking, but I've got to agree with the previous two posts:

Vote: No Lynch

Please get it over and done with.

Hopefully we'll all feel better after a good night's rest. Except for the dead guy from the opening flavour, of course. And we might just get some hints as to what the actual hell is going on.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Nebuduck » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:37 pm UTC

RoadieRich wrote:Vote: No Lynch


As much as my gut agrees with you, I'm pretty certain that no lynches pretty much NEVER benefit the townies. I'd be more in favour of lynching a lurker, but don't know who.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby SPACKlick » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:57 pm UTC

With the level of powers it sounds like we have floating around, I'd advocate AGAINST no lynch.

I was confident Nebuduck and Carlington were scum. I'm still confident Nebu and Carlington were scum. I'm less confident Nebu is still scum.

Unvote
Vote Carlington


We should vote to lynch one of our suspects. Get a night over and done with and get some night powers used. Then see where we lay.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Vytron » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:02 pm UTC

frogman wrote:Also, hello Vytron and SDK!


Hello frogman!

Okay, so something about me first. I always tend to be a mislynch magnet D1, and current players of the forum won't let me lie, I very often am a big distraction D1, like, discussion focuses on me, and then we get less content about everyone else. That's a reason for moving to replacements even though I started as main player.

Second, while I joined the forum in 2009, I didn't play/mod a mafia game until 2012. What did I do in that time? Read lots and lots of mafia games on this section, watching you guys play, lurking in the shadows and trying to learn metas and all that, always dreaming to one day play and mod games with you. And when I finally was ready and joined, I realized most of you had already quit D:

So it actually means something to me to actually be able to play with the oldies!

Specially Sungura... Hi Amy! You've been my favorite mafia player ever (I've also read mafia games of other subforums) and... I guess I'll stop here since I could only appear more of a creepy fanbody than I am...

About the game: It's a bastard game, if the mod never said that roles would change and they're changing, they lied to us. I don't have a problem with bastard games, I actually find them more fun, and I understand why it was not announced as bastard (may people that hate them may not have joined it, though they're not pissed.) So let's not make comments like "the game may become bastard soon", it's fully bastard. I just hope it doesn't devolve into those games that are so crazy people stop caring about the outcome of them.

Finally, I'm not from the people that makes a big list with a summary of everything that has happened or a list of all players and what I think about each of them and gives a scale from townie-to-scum, and I actually think that's a cheap thing to do by scum and can somewhat easily be done in an acceptable way. I play to look for scumslips and scummy behavior, and... usually to defend myself because people tend to like the idea to mislynch me.

--------

Okay, if you're from the people that votes other people whenever they say a lot of things without saying nothing, just ignore everything before the following line.

My post starts now.

--------

I agree with frogman that Nebuduck's claim that their role has changed looks like a desperate move, and think that it would be really bad for the game if they changed alignment just after several votes piled on them (what would this be? "Oh, town is going to mislynch D1, I can't let that happen *ZAP* now, there we go, you're scum now and town will lynch correctly" or "No! Town is going to lynch correctly D1! That foils my plans and the course of the game! *ZAP* Okay, a mislynch is now on the way".) If Nebuduck was scum before then it changes nothing and if they're lying they've been always scum.

Vote Nebuduck

I find RoadieRich's No Lynch vote really weird. michaelandjimi was just replaced, but wasn't he the one that would spend a long while explaining why No Lynch is the worst of all outcomes for D1?

Besides, 3 out of 4 of the players that voted No Lynch recently weren't town, if the trend continues I'm voting RoadieRich tomorrow.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby freezeblade » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:23 pm UTC

this is written as I'm going through, for things that have changed as new information arrives, I have noted them after a statement
SPACKlick wrote:If position on the list makes a difference then I would appreciate if Freezeblade would say whether or not they gained a power they didn't have before.


I have recieved no messages (from anyone) since my role PM from the mod at the start of the game.
did anyone else's role change? I'm not liking Nebuduck at all this game, his play is confusing and pretty scummy smelling.

RR I'm reading as pretty townie, there is no reason for scum!RR to lie in such a way that it attracts more attention.
(Although I don't like the No Lynch vote, D1 no-lynch almost never benifits town, and I usually vote for people that do this, barring other information)

vote: Nebuduck

Because they are looking scummiest to me right now, and I feel like D1 is dragging on pretty long.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Nebuduck » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:52 pm UTC

So, a bit about my roles:

- My first win condition was as a bandwagoneer, a win condition based around creating a bandwagon. I would consider this win condition fairly town-neutral, and I will admit that I was certainly playing it in a fairly anti-town way (mainly because, hell, that's just a lot more fun). I was basically hoping to have met my win conditions within a couple of days, and then wreak havoc (because, again, fun).

- My second win condition is still lynch related (I have a lynch target). I would also consider this condition fairly town-neutral, except I'm 90% certain that the role who is my lynch target is mafia (I obviously don't know who has that role). I don't particularly want to mention what role it is, because - of course - that puts a target on me for today's NK. I think town could do worse than lynching me today (as I say, not strictly town aligned). However, I'm also fairly sure they could do better.

- Additionally, I have a power. I'm not going to go into details about it. However, suffice to say, it could be used for good as well as evil. My power hasn't actually changed - just my win condition has.

My feeling is that, though SPACKlick hasn't confirmed this, he had a fairly similar role change to me (i.e. same alignment, related if not identical win conditions). I also suspect others might have had similar changes, though no-one has said so yet.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby weiyaoli » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:48 pm UTC

First things first, I'm not going to claim my role or anything but I will just say I am exceedingly confused about the goings on in the second part of D1 so far. I'm getting the impression lots of you have way more complex roles than I do. I definitely have received no communication from the mod.

Stuff that came to my mind after reading through the thread again, roughly chronological (spoilered to hopefully make it less wall-y and easier to read, name at top signifies whose post it is and @ means I put a question in the spoiler to them:

@kalira
Spoiler:
kalira wrote:Spack brings up a good point to discuss... do we think that the elder states(wo)men were singled out for better roles? Personally it doesn't seem that likely, as once we figured it out we would just lynch all of them, but I suppose it is possible. And it would probably encourage them to come back for the game if they had interesting roles.

Why does "better roles" = we should lynch them? Do you think SPACK's vote was serious, or random? Also, seems a little like you're rolefishing, not sure what answer you would expect from any returning players. I'm not even sure at that point (before replacements), we would be even able to lynch through all returning players.


ConMan:
Spoiler:
ConMan wrote:Now back to the game itself. I don't have any particularly useful information so far. I assume any investigative roles didn't get a Night zero, but one can always hope, right? In any case, I'll start flinging some baseless accusations once we've got a few more people around.

If a cop HAD gotten a N0 check, I feel that under almost no circumstances would it be beneficial to claim so D1. Especially in a large game with a lot of players, an innocent check says nothing (could be godfathers running around, so not clear townfirm). Also, random guilty check N0 seems anti-fun (just from a modgaming perspective).

I don't really like this combination of comments, on one hand it's trying to get things rolling on D1, but it reads to me like trying to draw out claims. At this stage in D1, it's very unlikely that anyone has useful information to share, unless they are about to roleclaim like RR later did, so it seems to be a bit of a useless filler comment. The second one reads like a fishing comment to me.

FoS: ConMan


Dr Ug:
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:Image
Votals:

michaelandjimi 1 (quintopia)

No current deadline for day 1. Keep up the active discussion and we'll all be happy ;)


Given the fact that none of the later votals contained a picture, I'm tempted to suggest this is probably also game related in some way. I have no clue how though.


SPACK:
Spoiler:
SPACKlick wrote:Vote Freezeblade as the player with no posts and no votes that I know.

In hindsight of Nebu's claim, which brought lynch-based roles to the forefront of my mind. I'm beginning to get a little suspicious of how often he's voting already in this game based on pretty much nothing. Anyone familiar with their play could say if they often vote lurkers on p2 (for my default forum settings)?


RR:
Spoiler:
Posted my thoughts on his claim post already, but the only thing I have to add is that reading back on his posts, I'm kinda feeling like he is overthinking a bit in his first post about it. His jester paranoia is a bit jarring to me, since he picks out that indep/anti-town role in particular. I can definitely see more drawbacks if cult, or SK etc... He was more concerned about being able to corroborate his claim.

From initial reactions to RR's claim. I liked kalira's first post, but definitely did not enjoy the edit later on after's Nebu's post. It seemed a bit keen to sit on the fence a little once pointed out it made it seem that they found RR suspicious. I like Nebu's post, but it's analytics I feel any faction can do, especially if they know that they might have a day RB/power stealer.


SPACK:
Spoiler:
3) When you say probably pretty minor, are you on this expanded list? [I'd forgotten the sequels existed when I posted the last list

Very much disagree with this question being asked at all. I don't think it's useful information to know D1 anything to narrow down potentially more "interesting" roles as I have said before. It also allows the claimer more wiggle room, later on if they have to fake claim, as they are more likely to not hit a role of another player.


Nebu:
Spoiler:
Nebuduck wrote:Of the people who have been FOS'ed or voted for, and haven't yet replied, I think we have:

megatriorchis - whose profile says 'Last Active: -'
michaelandjimi - whose profile says 'Last Active: Sunday 5th July'
Carlington - whose profile says he was last active 3 minutes ago

Vote Carlington


Regardless of whether he is a lyncher or not, I don't like this vote. I do remember the start of D1 being very slow, but the vote on a lurker this early instead of engaging with any other more active player is scummy to me. Kinda avoiding interactions I think.

FoS: Nebu


@Madge:
Spoiler:
Madge wrote:I'm also happy for RR to choose his own target; I think that's perfectly logical for the reasons I think Quintopia has stated. (if he's town then town chooses unmitigated by scum; if he's scum then he probably has the power anyway to make a claim like this, and his target will get suspicion on them if he flips scum, which is great for WIFOM, but at least gives the cop/s I can only assume we have in a 25 player game someone to target)

How did you get this from quintopia's post? I felt he was pushing the opposite, that a town majority should decide.


@SPACK:
Spoiler:
SPACKlick wrote:I know people have called me a bastard for this before, but Carlington's long list of reasons why he was unable to post set off my scumdar something chronic. EGMEOY upgraded to FOS Carlington.


I feel he's playing in a contradictory manner right now. He's happy to vote early, but is super careful with Carlington, starting from IGMEOY to FOS.
FoS:SPACK

Not much to add about the context of the FOS except that I feel it's BM to ever lie about RL and to accuse others of doing so, but he could have been pinged about the way Carlington wrote that first post. If that is the case though, I feel his reason in very vague.

For SPACK, I read my post and my response was supposed to have been a question - oops! So here it is reworded:
Why did you suggest infina as the day-chat target for incorrect reasoning, since both moody and infina suggested Nebu as the target?


RR:
Spoiler:
Won't quote the post since it's his long spoilered rambly one, but I see that paranoia again, pretty strong for a self-claimed day-chat "weak" power. I can sort of understand where his thought process could have come from, but it seems like a bit of jump.


General:
Spoiler:
Not much to read into the discovery of the list shuffling. It's interesting again how quickly RR jump to his conclusions. At that point I just feel there wasn't enough data to find a pattern. Especially since it happened more than once, jumping to roleswaps in particular seems confusing to me, since it means we'll all end up changing roles so frequently throughout the game.

FoS: RR


Sorry, ran out of time for today, but will just leave what I've written so far so we can get responses etc... Also even with spoilers it's a little long, so hopefully this is manageable in readability.

I was going to vote at the end of the summary, so since I didn't finish I'll just leave them as FoS for now and decide who I find the most suspicious later.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby moody7277 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:54 pm UTC

Well, that was more annoying than I figured it'd be:

Aardvarki: couple of posts on RR's daychat claim. nothing since the 8th. neutral to slightly scummy

Azrael001: couple of comparisons to previous game, votes frogman off what he considers weird analysis of RR's daychat. Prefers Van for daychat. slightly townie

Carlington: concerned about lack of scum-hunting. discusses wine re RR not getting daychat. neutral

ConMan: discussion of RR and player list. RR not getting daychat not a point against him. Neutral to slightly townie.

cycoden: one post about the lack of RR's daychat. Insufficient data

ElectricHaze: some discussion of side events. Suspicious of the Nebu v Carlington deal. Pet theory for RR not getting Van in daychat is Van already talking to Nebu, revised due to current events. neutral

Freezeblade: setup spec, pinged off me, answers question from SPACKlick. neutral

Frogman: analysis of RR's daychat, says he would have kept it to himself longer, with the example that pinged Az. couple of posts here smack of self-conciousness:

"why would scum draw suspicion to themselves? ... People seem to be suspicious of my caution."

neutral to slightly scummy

_infina_: some setup spec, suspicion of frogman, after some discussion this abates, then votes Az for quote mining frogman. sightly townie

Jar'O'Jam: three in-character posts. flavor is one thing, but this seems like obfuscation. scummy

kalira: some rolespec, some interest in the RR daychat issue. Looks to be the first to notice the player list swapping. suspicous of fb for posting weirdness. neutral

madge: role breadcrumb which SPACK guessed, votes him for daychat, some PA spec, then comments on the Nebu-vote daychat thing, reveals breadcrumb. roleblock role could go either way, but for now she looks slightly townie

MasterOfAll: some rolespec, prefers to pick RR's daychat (not Nebu), votes Van for daychat, the votes Nebu & unvotes to get in in Nebu-vote daychat. slightly townie

Minestrone: RR daychat not necessarily town, wants to give daychat to someone who agrees with that (SPACK), then switches to Van due to Van-Nebu chat. Chastises Carlington for not thinking RR, PA, and other daychat discussion as scum-hunting. townie

Nebuduck: setup spec and nostalgia. RR analysis (fairly exhaustive). Voted Carlington for lurking. RR's claim most likely makes him town. Favors open voting for daychat. Theories on PA guy. Switches reasoning for voting Carlington from lurking to something having to do with list-switching. Claims role-switch and post-hoc reasoning for Carlington votes. Up until there, I might even had him at slightly townie, but that makes for a bit of a backslide.

quintopia: RR town for claim, discussion on how to decide daychat, votes SPACK for daychat, Carlington's no scumhunting comment odd but semi-justified. switches daychat vote to Van, votes Aardvarki for lurking, points out JoJ's correct prediction of room spinning.

RoadieRich: Claim of daychat power comes in second post, so it's not in response to suspicion, so veracity on it looks good. Discussion includes analysis from outside perspective, counting votes, decides to pick Van (had been trending that way). Something happened to prevent it. Most recently pulled the "No Lynch" thing *twitch* Despite that, previous behavior looks townie.

SDK: no data

SPACKlick: character list. post count and votes fb for lurking, questions for lots of people, comments on Nebu's lurker vote, pro-voting for daychat, switches vote to cycoden for list weirdness. Pays a lot of attention to the list weirdness. switches vote to Nebuduck also beased on list issues, and then Carlington. The tunneling on the list issues seems a little weird to me. slightly scummy

sungura: some discussion on the RR and PA guy. unconvinced by pings, votes frogman for daychat. displeased by RR dithering, FoSs VZ, Nebu, Carlington, then votes Nebu. slightly townie.

ThinkSweet: some comments on daychat. confirms daychat ability with Nebu, currently hypothesised to be from voting. a bit sparse on posting. neutral

Van: some setup spec. asks people not to confirm about character list. RR daychat discussion, mostly positive on him. votes Nebuduck, claims daychat with him. likely townie

VectorZero: several opening posts which were fluff. vote Van for daychat. reads list, vote electrichaze based off their spec on RR's daychat failure. Switched to Nebu to get in the vote-daychat. slightly scummy trending to neutral

Vytron: one post yet. insufficient data.

weiyaoli: some rule and role spec. agrees against people claiming about character list. daychat vote discussion, votes kalira for daychat. votes maj for lurking, then unvotes for replacement. reads and questions post. slightly townie

in addendum, looking at Nebu's last post, I'm calling it now: Nebu's a jester. Vote for him if you want, but don't be surprised if you hear cackling in the night (or that might just be the DTs).
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby SDK » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:05 pm UTC

Hello! Who should I vote for? The first person to answer this question gets my vote for today.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Vytron » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:25 pm UTC

@weiyaoli
Spoiler:
Hi, just wanted to let you know...


@weiyaoli
Spoiler:
That I'd prefer if you didn't make so many spoilers to talk about stuff.


@weiyaoli
Spoiler:
As I don't find it improves readability.


@weiyaoli
Spoiler:
But forces one to open each of them to read all content.


@weiyaoli
Spoiler:
While the length of the post doesn't matter much.


@weiyaoli
Spoiler:
It's probably just me, though, and others do like opening all these spoilers to read stuff, this demonstration was for them.


On content: I do like weiyaoli's points, though it seemed a bit overkill with so many Fingers Of Suspicions (they ring a bell because I'd imagine a scum player not knowing how many FoS's they should be making if they were town, so they overkill them.)

Still giving them townie points because they're asking questions to other players, but let's see the follow up.

On moody7277: What did I just say about such long summary posts? :P But Moody does them both as town and scum, so it's fine (still neutral.)

I don't like the scary tactics of pointing out Nebu could be a jester. Nebu accepts he acted scummy on purpose, this isn't something constructive to say for someone that wants to be lynched, and also, the whole claiming their role changed is something done to avoid getting lynched, not something jestery.

On SDK: A man of few words, I see.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby VectorZero » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:37 pm UTC

unvote

I haven't received daychat with Nebu, but that seems to be a thing of the past.

I don't know when I'm going to be able to post much before the weekend after next. I'll try to keep up but *shrug*
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby weiyaoli » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:19 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:
@weiyaoli
It's probably just me, though, and others do like opening all these spoilers to read stuff, this demonstration was for them.

On content: I do like weiyaoli's points, though it seemed a bit overkill with so many Fingers Of Suspicions (they ring a bell because I'd imagine a scum player not knowing how many FoS's they should be making if they were town, so they overkill them.)


Quick reply before bedtime.

I tried it both ways, but it seemed to me spoilers made it a little easier to find whose post I was talking about and when. Although looking back at it, the post got longer than I expected, so the number of spoilers was probably a little high. Note taken, I'll mess around with the formatting next time.

I don't feel I overkilled the number of FoS at all. Why should there be any given number of FoS "town" should make? I would probably be willing to vote for any of people I fosed in that post if the second half of the thread corroborated my suspicions. I'd be more concerned if someone couldn't find suspicious things in a large game, having read through half of D1.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Van » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:33 pm UTC

Mixed commentary from last day or so/trying to catch up, been a little busier than I'd like. I will start off by saying my role did not change in any way, which makes me extra suspicious of SPACKlick and Nebuduck.

SDK: You should read the thread and make an informed decision based on your fresh perspective on who to vote for 8-)
SPACKlick wrote:Madge breadcrumbed her role in one of her first posts. She's a roleblocker. (A boiled Mackerel).
Literally what. How on earth did you catch that?! I'm not sure I follow the logic behind "this person breadcrumbed, therefore they are scum". I'm really not following on you saying you've not only gotten scum links down, but have determined teamings - on day one. Admittedly, it's a long day one, but still. Are you always this aggressive in FoSing half the game?

Regarding Nebuduck: We've continued to idly chat on and off (including after the ThinkSweet development), and I don't think I've seen anything in-thread or out that makes me want to unvote. Especially given the weird claim of role/win condition changing - I'm not really willing to let that slide. That seems like an extremely unusual thing to happen, especially in a game which is not yet claimed to be bastardly. Either Dr Ug is lying, or Nebuduck (and SPACKlick) are lying, and I'm inclined to believe the latter. As an aside, did the vote-to-chat hypothesis fall through? I think it has been long enough and I didn't see anyone comment on it.

I will say that I don't see the Nebuduck/Carlington link, to be honest. Am I correct in saying that the main argument is that Nebuduck is trying to bus a scummate on D1? Without provocation? Or are you suggesting that he didn't think anyone would go for Carlington so early? I dunno, I'm not seeing it.

ElectricHaze wrote:Well if Thinksweet is able to pm with Nebuduck now I guess that gets rid of the possibility of RR's ability not working due to such an ability already being active on the target. That leaves Role-block/thief or an outright lie from RR for whatever reason...
Agreed. If Nebuduck is really daychatting with 2+ people, I think we can safely reduce this to one of:
day roleblocker targeting RR
day rolethief targeting RR
RR is a jester

I ... I don't know what I think here, to be honest. I felt like RR's initial play and discussion prompting was really pro-town, but after this falling through, I'm starting to have my doubts. Especially on the NL bit. I don't really want to lynch RR today, but going forward... I'd really like to see a successful RR chat come out of this. For the moment, I'd argue we're better off not lynching or vigging RR. If there is a day roleblocker/rolethief, they pretty much have to be scum. So, as long as RR lives we are forcing them to continue to target RR, possibly saving our other day power roles? I'd rather have daychat get blocked than daycop or something. I don't know. In the meanwhile, if RR does manage to get off a chat at some point, we can at least confirm he's probably not a jester (though not confirmed town, still).
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby SDK » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:40 pm UTC

Gonna try to do a quick readthrough in 30 minutes... Think I can do it?

Page 1 Impressions
Nebduck might be scum
moody's probably town
kalira might be town since this
kalira wrote:Spack brings up a good point to discuss... do we think that the elder states(wo)men were singled out for better roles? Personally it doesn't seem that likely, as once we figured it out we would just lynch all of them, but I suppose it is possible. And it would probably encourage them to come back for the game if they had interesting roles.
is a strange way for scum to be blending in. She's a tired and mistaken townie, I think.
VectorZero I'll have to keep my eye on...
Van is not mafia... and also probably town.
MasterOfAll might be scum
ConMan makes me nervous
Sungura feels like town

Page 2 Impressions
SPACKlick is probably town
... Nice claim, Rich.
Nebduck is still scum
weiyaoli is probably town. I think I thought that page 1 too, but didn't write it down.
_infina_ says something interesting here that I won't expand on at present since he's probably town.
MasterOfAll is still scum... probably
frogman might be scum
Van is still town
Madge: fish is meat, for the record

(30 minutes is up, by the way...)

Page 3 Impressions
Nebduck's posting here feels a little better...
_infina_ feels a little worse...

SPACK and Rich look like a nice townblock so far.

Page 4 Impressions
Aardvarki might be town
That PA mod post was not a player communicating. That's flavour, probably related to an ability, but not player words.
ConMan is bugging me. Need to verify later.


...

Okay, that's all I've got time for now. More to come.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby SDK » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:42 pm UTC

Van wrote:SDK: You should read the thread and make an informed decision based on your fresh perspective on who to vote for 8-)

Ha! Thanks, Van. Apparently no one is interested in taking me up on my offer, though it's still on the table right up until I finish my reread!

You talk about some interesting stuff in this latest post. Gotta get up to speed here.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Minestrone » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:01 pm UTC

I'm pretty convinced that RR is not town at this point. People are excusing his failure to daychat with "it would be a gutsy claim if he was lying," but given the way people are reacting to the fact that he failed to demonstrate his power, it clearly wouldn't be as gutsy a claim as we thought. I was going to be in favor of waiting a few days for a scum day RBer to flip or the power to go through before lynching him if those things don't happen, but then he went and voted No Lynch of all things, which almost seems jestery, but could also be scum trying to look like a jester. I hate that kind of wine but maybe lynching isn't the best fate for them anyway, so I'm very much in favor of RR getting vigged, since even if it's a vig wasted on a jester, the vig is likely to have weak reads anyway and better to kill RR than misvig a townie or withhold. Plus, I would be very surprised if we didn't have a vig in a game this big.

I don't think I'd be unhappy with a Nebuduck lynch today, especially if no one else has a change to their role to report, but I won't vote them yet since they seem to be gathering plenty of votes anyway and I'd like to read a bit more closely before I put a vote down.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Nebuduck » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:12 pm UTC

About to head to bed, but a couple of people are asking about the vote to chat. I'm still pretty certain that there was a link - both Van and ThinkSweet should be able to confirm that their messages from Dr Ug stating that we could chat came through shortly before Dr Ug posted the first vote tally in which they had voted for me. Apparently that's no longer the case - I'm guessing that it's something to do with the role change.

A couple of people also don't believe that Dr Ug would do the role change. I don't really know what to say, except that it definitely happened... I guess you'll have to take my and SPACKlick's word for it. We have no reason to both be lying, and aren't in cahoots or any such, though again you'll have to take our word for that. I think the main argument I can make in defense of it happening is that it would be a very odd thing to claim for either or both of us if it hadn't happened. I also expect that a few other people also had role changes, based on some of the wording of the role change PM.

I guess to me, this game is definitely bastard. There's no way it isn't. Also, looking at some of Dr Ug's previous games, that doesn't surprise me too much, though it does sadden me a little.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby moody7277 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:36 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:On moody7277: What did I just say about such long summary posts? :P But Moody does them both as town and scum, so it's fine (still neutral.)


Mostly wanted to get an exhaustive list of impressions down as a base to compare changes in my opinion. [OTjoke]I also figured that last spoiler would say Panther Salve[/OTjoke]

Minestrone wrote: People are excusing his failure to daychat with "it would be a gutsy claim if he was lying," but given the way people are reacting to the fact that he failed to demonstrate his power, it clearly wouldn't be as gutsy a claim as we thought.


My impression on the consensus about RR's failure to daychat was third-party mischief. The claim had been out there so long that if there was a way to monkey with it, it was bound to happen. I guess that was part of why frogman would have preferred RR keep that ability closer to his vest. The comments you're referring to about RR's claim came early on D1, yes?
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:38 am UTC

The long gap between the claim and the use was probably a mistake. Given the initial results of RR's attempt to day chat, and Nebu's actual chat with Van, I was inclined to believe that Nebu had stolen RR's power use.

Role blocker is typically a scum role, which makes the whole bread crumbing thing pretty suspicious. But then again there is the whole WIFOM thing where 'scum would never bread crumb their role'. Still, pretty major ping on madge.

With the spinning thing making a muddy mess of things, I'm less sure that Nebu was stealing powers, so I'm not really inclined to immediately vote for him. The room spinning might imply that RR's power wasn't what he thought it was anyways, though I expect that he would be told so by now.

In other news, I am out of data until the 16th, so I can only post and read from home, which makes my ability to post regularly more difficult.

I am content to leave my vote where it is, though it wouldn't take a lot at this point to switch my vote to Nebuduck, since only the supposed role change is what stayed my hand.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby RoadieRich » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:24 am UTC

unvote

I don't even know any more.

In fact, I do.

vote: cycoden for only pretending to participate.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Aardvarki » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:36 am UTC

Again, sorry for abysmal activity levels, though I did explain it in my first post. It's quite difficult to follow 20-something players worth of activity, have a RL vacation in a country where I have intermittent access to internet, and try to make sense of mod bastardry at the same time. As the game calms down, I imagine it will be easier for me. I am reading the thread, and will try to weigh in from time to time, but I don't know how much help I will be in the short-term.

I've had two other chances to post, but honestly I've really had nearly nothing to add, so rather than making the "hi guys i'm here and making a useless post" post (which in my opinion is worse than not posting), I've just opted to not. Now that there's a vote on me, I'll actually post (as per the "explain your stuff when you get voted" custom).

Thoughts: If player order determines player abilities, it seems like it should be pretty easy to eventually figure out what every slot does. My gut tells me this falls into the realm of "more information favors town", though since we have no idea what happens to the dead (whether they keep rotating or remain fixed in their slot) we should be careful about revealing powers near night-time. I don't have any other leads on the room spinning.

Has anyone else gained or lost powers throughout the day? Or only win conditions? I will come out and say that I have not experienced either, at least, not that I am aware of. I feel like a yes/no on whether abilities/wincons were gained/lost would be useful information for people to share.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Vytron » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:51 am UTC

weiyaoli wrote:I don't feel I overkilled the number of FoS at all. Why should there be any given number of FoS "town" should make?


Not FoS's town should make (sneaky way to claim town BTW) but a given player. I apologize in advance if this is nitpicking and irrelevant, because, I recall I've had this discussion before, and I was so. But I think there's three levels, IGMEOY (I Got My Eye On You), FoS (Finger of Suspicion) and Vote. That is, you FoS when you're thinking about voting someone. My claim is, one only has one vote, one isn't really going to vote as many people, so if one suspects them one can just say so, or one can use IGMEOY for that, but FoSing basically dilutes the effects of FoSing, like, if you FoS 4 people then you're just 1/4 FoSing each of them.

It's probably just that I'm feeling distant memories from some scum player that was FoSing willy-nilly many people and applying the concepts to you though. As I've said, I do agree with your suspicions. But if you're cum I'll be all like "Gah! That's the second time it happens", or something.

--------

SDK: Wow, you're going to spend hours reading the thread :shock: That's why I read it every day religiously, I just can't blitz anymore. Speaking of blitzing...

moody7277 wrote:[OTjoke]I also figured that last spoiler would say Panther Salve[/OTjoke]


I think it's a disgrace that I didn't think of doing that :(

Azrael001 wrote:Role blocker is typically a scum role


Is it? I've seen them as common in both sides, specially recently where with few players, mods haven't been able to accommodate many scum roles in the same game. I however think that it's possible both sides have a roleblocker, so if there's another one, I suggest they claim now. There'd be probably at least one scum in {Madge,that other person} so it's worthwhile to sacrifice the town player to catch the mafiosi.

-I'm liking RoadieRich less and less. This vote-hopping of them isn't productive (maybe THEY're the jester and are getting desperate :P )

Minestrone wrote:I'm pretty convinced that RR is not town at this point.


I'm absolutely certain Nebuduck isn't town, and that's the reason I want them lynched. As town my win condition does not include a lynch target, so what is happening here is that Nebuduck, even if he's truthful, won't help us lynch scum because he doesn't care about it at all, he just wants to find who is their target and lynch them.

I haven't seen anything more damning, but I agree a quick-lynch wouldn't be good, since that would give us less potential info, so let's see if something better pops up.

NINJA'D by Aardvarki: I'll keep them as neutral, though it's always hard to distinguish whether a player can't post much due to lack of access or they're doing it intentionally (though I don't recall seeing lurking scum claiming RL vacations as their excuse to not post.)

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby quintopia » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:12 am UTC

Unvote until Aardvarki falls short on their promise to be more active in future. (I'm still getting a lot of scum feel here, so I'm leaving behind a FoS where my vote used to be.)

Now, however, we have this:
Vytron wrote:(sneaky way to claim town BTW)


from someone who spent an entire post earlier explaining how he scumhunts to reinforce towniness, and then slips this in the very same post as the above:

Vytron wrote:As town


Hypocrisy much? What's worse is that he misinterpreted the post he quoted. weiyaoli was clearly putting scare-quotes around "town" so as to imply "you don't know i'm town, but why would town!weiyaoli obey a FoS limit?" Intentional misinterpretation? Who can say? Let's find out...

Vote Vytron

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby ConMan » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:05 am UTC

On chats:

Just a small note that I did try activating a daychat to test the suggestion I might have picked up RR's ability, but the mod didn't even dignify it with a response so let's assume that was a failure.

On role blocks:

I think that in a large game like this that a scum role blocker is much more powerful than a town one, and hence more beneficial for their respective teams (although many of the points I'm about to make are true of many similar pairs of town/scum abilities). A town roleblock is much more likely to hit a useful ally by accident, while scum will guaranteed hit an opponent of some kind and the only question is how good a role they block (and since I suspect there are few vanilla roles, the chance of a complete whiff is small). Whats more, the presence of *any* role block can sow confusion and discord by casting doubts on whether someone actually has an ability they claimed to (as demonstrated with RR). On that basis, I've got an eye on Madge more from a concern of how dangerous she may be as scum than from any pings that she actually is.

On bastardry:

It does look like we're playing a somewhat bastardy game here, based on the information so far. However, at this stage I'm moderately comfortable assuming that it's the kind of bastardry where a few underlying mechanics introduce confusion and keep us on our feet, not the kind where the mod is actively interfering with the game to produce a particular result. However, that does mean there's a pretty broad scope for roles that can mess things up too - at this stage, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a listener role to keep all of these chats in check.

On Nebuduck:

It seems quite lucky, if that's the right word, that he would get swapped from one independent-vote-related-wincon to another, if the swaps were happening completely at random. It's another very weird thing to claim without any real prompting, so I'll take it at face value for now, but given that only he and SPACKlick have admitted to changing I suspect that the swap might have only affected independent players (or maybe just the two of them?). Swapping people in and out of scum tends to be a tricky thing to balance so I'm leaning against either of them being scum at this point. And if both Nebu and SPACK are neutral indies then we're better off ignoring them and going after the real scum (and I would have expected one of them to claim that the other is now a super-anti-town person if that were a possibility).

On SPACK:

I'm pretty sure he said something about having seen someone use a similar anagram as breadcrumb in a different game, so there's no real reason to jump on him for having spotted it. I think if I'd been looking harder at unusual phrasing in people's posts I might have spotted that too (and I think I saw what looked like another crumb or two myself, so I doubt Madge is the only one to do it).
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Dr Ug » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:31 pm UTC

Votals:

frogman 1 (Azrael001)
Nebuduck 5 (Van, Thinksweet, sungura, Vytron, freezeblade)
Azrael001 1 (_infina_)
Carlington 1 (SPACKlick)
cycoden 1 (RoadieRich)
Vytron 1 (quintopia)

14 to lynch
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby SPACKlick » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:21 pm UTC

This is just swinging past between meetings. Will respond directly to things addressed to me/about me now and hopefully get a good read this evening.
weiyaoli wrote:SPACK:
SPACKlick wrote:Vote Freezeblade as the player with no posts and no votes that I know.

In hindsight of Nebu's claim, which brought lynch-based roles to the forefront of my mind. I'm beginning to get a little suspicious of how often he's voting already in this game based on pretty much nothing. Anyone familiar with their play could say if they often vote lurkers on p2 (for my default forum settings)?

It's my general principle to 1) vote at random early on, leave a vote on a lurker while there are still lurkers but things have gotten serious, only FOS until I have reasonable confidence in a vote for a non-lurker. I think others will bear me out in this from previous games.
weiyaoli wrote:SPACK:
3) When you say probably pretty minor, are you on this expanded list? [I'd forgotten the sequels existed when I posted the last list

Very much disagree with this question being asked at all. I don't think it's useful information to know D1 anything to narrow down potentially more "interesting" roles as I have said before. It also allows the claimer more wiggle room, later on if they have to fake claim, as they are more likely to not hit a role of another player.

Yeah, I agree. I'm not particularly au fait with this sort of flavour game. I hadn't really thought through the impact of the question on others when I asked. I was trying to narrow down my knowledge to work out how much flavour I'd need to research to get up to speed. Wouldn't do it again.

weiyaoli wrote:For SPACK, I read my post and my response was supposed to have been a question - oops! So here it is reworded:
Why did you suggest infina as the day-chat target for incorrect reasoning, since both moody and infina suggested Nebu as the target?

I don't know. When I saw moody propose nebu I discounted it as potential scum bond. When I saw _infina_ do it I didn't even consider who she'd suggested. I'm inconsistent I guess. Sorry I don't have a better answer.

Moody7277 wrote:The tunneling on the list issues seems a little weird to me. slightly scummy

Early on, I had suspected the list of being in order of roles. For a variety of reasons. I didn't want it to be forgotten about because that information would have been really useful to town if confirmed. Once I'd started tracking the shifts I got a bit distracted by analysing it for patterns. I don't believe there's anything left to analyse or useful to gain hence ignoring the last switch and not posting about it any more.

Van wrote:
SPACKlick wrote:Madge breadcrumbed her role in one of her first posts. She's a roleblocker. (A boiled Mackerel).
Literally what. How on earth did you catch that?! I'm not sure I follow the logic behind "this person breadcrumbed, therefore they are scum". I'm really not following on you saying you've not only gotten scum links down, but have determined teamings - on day one. Admittedly, it's a long day one, but still. Are you always this aggressive in FoSing half the game?

I spotted the breadcrumb because 1) I went looking for breadcrumbs. 2) Madge made a reference to Ace Rimmer from Red Dwarf which felt weird on its own but then added a parenthetical diversion about fish. 3) I've seen Mackerel used before in an anagram of roleblocker.
The logic behind x breadcrumbed so x is probably scum is firstly an experience thing, most breadcrumbs are left by scum. (followed by masons). Scum breadcrumb so they can point to it later and say "See, i've been honest about my position all game". Secondly I see no logical reason for a roleblocker to breadcrumb. When could pointing to it help town?
In terms of seeing the teamings, I have no confidence in the teams I listed. I just went down the list I think is in faction order and went. In a game this size, major scum should be about 5. Minor scum would be about 3. There may or may not be one or 2 independents. I'd put Carlington and Nebu together from their play so 5 then 3 then indies made more sense than 3 then 5 then indies. Then looking a the size of groups I threw flavour at it to see what stuck.
It all boils down to, I think the role list first posted in this thread was in order of how the players were assigned. I also believe that means adjacent players are likely to be of the same alignment. Since everyone I suspected of being scummy was in the top 8 I presume at least 8 non-town.

ConMan wrote:...so I'll take it at face value for now, but given that only he and SPACKlick have admitted to changing I suspect that the swap might have only affected independent players (or maybe just the two of them?). Swapping people in and out of scum tends to be a tricky thing to balance so I'm leaning against either of them being scum at this point. And if both Nebu and SPACK are neutral indies then we're better off ignoring them and going after the real scum (and I would have expected one of them to claim that the other is now a super-anti-town person if that were a possibility).

I am not now, nor was I before an independent.

Conman wrote:(and I think I saw what looked like another crumb or two myself, so I doubt Madge is the only one to do it).

I agree. I haven't decoded any others but there are a couple posts with weird wording that made me take a second look.

I'm torn between Nebu and Carlington for voting. I favour lynching Nebu but there could be a large scum faction so I don't really want to pile votes on at this stage.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Carlington » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:35 pm UTC

This is a quick, mildly inebriated post before bed, just because I was reading through to see what new Bastardry could have taken place. (Seriously, Hangafia is apt, reading this thread leaves me feeling dizzy, nauseated, and headachey!)
SPACK's latest post makes me wonder why exactly they thought the list might be in order of roles so early on. What evidence was there? I didn't see any until recently.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby _infina_ » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:44 pm UTC

SPACKlick wrote:When I saw _infina_ do it I didn't even consider who she'd suggested.

Gender pronouns for our players!

At this point we have spent over a week on day one. I have a couple of people I think are quite possibly scum, including Azrael001 and Nebuduck. I think day one has gone on long enough, and it is time to get some more concrete information by lynching and ending the day.

unvote
Vote: Nebuduck
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Vytron » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:43 pm UTC

quintopia wrote:from someone who spent an entire post earlier explaining how he scumhunts to reinforce towniness, and then slips this in the very same post as the above


There's a difference between implying you're town and claiming you're town directly. I did the latter. The line you quote by weiyaoli does the former. I don't think putting quotes around town changes that, because weiyaoli was claiming "town" was doing something he was doing.

But anyway... That's moot because you were right...

quintopia wrote:Vote Vytron


Okay, yes, AT THE POINT YOU VOTED ME I WAS MAFIA... Sort of. I was a kind of mafia that didn't know who were their scumbuddies, so actually what I was trying to do was trying to discover them because I was told they knew it was me. That's the role megatriorchis started as.

But, the mod has just informed me that my role has just changed to town, and that my new win condition is to kill all anti-town factions.

That's happening after I said...

(what would this be? "Oh, town is going to mislynch D1, I can't let that happen *ZAP* now, there we go, you're scum now and town will lynch correctly" or "No! Town is going to lynch correctly D1! That foils my plans and the course of the game! *ZAP* Okay, a mislynch is now on the way".)


So, yeah, that's kind of happening now...

Corroborations: You can always ask my old scumbuddies that knew I was their buddy, though of course claiming they knew me would be equivalent to claim being mafia :P (unless megatriorchis/me were being bastard lied all along and we never had scumbuddies...)

For now, this new role of mine allows me to chat with VectorZero, so I have sent them a message. At least they can corroborate that they used to not be able to communicate with me, but are able to do so now...

I won't blame if people suddenly decide to mislynch me now, since it turns out they would have been right from the start, but not now.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby freezeblade » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:49 pm UTC

that...how...ok. I was going to say that there was no way the mod could balance changing someone's alignment, but then you say you didn't know your scumbuddies.

I'm not sure how I'd play that, or if it even sounds plausable of a call to make as a mod.

But then, I reminded myself who was writing the post. Vytron being Vytron.

EGMEOY though.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Vytron » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:58 pm UTC

Prediction: There's so many anti-town factions that there's going to be a point at which they, together, have the majority, and at that point most players will claim being scum, and will then decide to lynch me will all confirmed town players :P

It's like Mafia Redux mixed with Back to the Future Mafia, except in the latter people started with 3 roles for three simultaneous games, and these kind of alignment changed only happened with cult recruits, but at least I'm used to these crazy concepts (too bad only as mod, never as player...)

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Van » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:58 pm UTC

SPACKlick: I think that's a very reasonable explanation and your logic makes a little more sense now, thank you. I don't know if I believe that Dr Ug would leave the scum as a single group in the player list though, that's kind of a huge mistake (or a very weird intentional thing).

Vytron: You're claiming you were scum and your alignment just changed to pro-town? What? When did this happen? When the room stopped spinning, before, after?
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Vytron » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:05 pm UTC

Van wrote:Vytron: You're claiming you were scum and your alignment just changed to pro-town? What? When did this happen? When the room stopped spinning, before, after?


Yes, right as the room stopped spinning I looked at my hands and couldn't recognize them. Specifically, I used to be Kingsley, but I'm no longer them.

I guess I could claim who am I now, but with lynchers out there I'd rather not. Who knows, perhaps we have some kind of Kings going on and there's some Assassin out there with a one-shot kill that they have to use on their target, and that target is me!

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Van » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:09 pm UTC

Er, so more than just your alignment, the character you are playing changed too?

Well. I guess we are in a BM game then. The odds that Nebuduck, SPACKlick, and now you all lying over this are not amazing.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Sungura » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:17 pm UTC

I'm super fucking done with this game. It's clearly in light now that this is a bastard game and I don't do bastardy games. I would never have agreed to it had I known. I have requested replacement. I stand by everything I've said and if I had to finger mafia (or at least, anti town) it would be nebu, carlington, minestrone, mega (she's always scum :p), Madge. Ardvarki and Az I don't have a read on yet so guessing maybe either they are independents or I'm missing something or whatever. Freezerblade strikes me a bit odd but can't tell if it's scum or just their gameplay id have to go back and read so consider that an FOS. Which since I have asked for replacement I can't be arsed to do to flesh out the rest and get more clarity. Nebu and carlington most obvious, probably freezerblade after that, then minestrone and Madge. Mega because always. Is also suggest paying attention to the players at the top of the original list. Not all have pinged me But there are few who are not really talkative / I haven't played with before. I also suspect based on the number of players, the lack of large links among players, and it's easier to run a bastardy game where clearly folks are being roll switched with multiple mafia, there are at least two, if not three, scum factions. This is going to make it harder to sniff out.
"Would you rather fight a Sungura-sized spider or 1000 spider-sized Sunguras?" -Zarq
she/<any gender neutral>/snug

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Vytron » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:31 pm UTC

Van wrote:Er, so more than just your alignment, the character you are playing changed too?


That's correct. It's not like I suddenly became a good guy when the room stopped, it's that I had a CHANGE, NOW with some guy, I guess. It's interesting to wonder whether some guy that used to be me just became Kingsley as I became them.

@Sungura: Sorry to see you go, but I understand. It's also kind of double-bastard that the mod knows you don't play in bastard games and still invites you to one while keeping it hidden. I still hope the game stabilizes and doesn't become a joke game, for instance, if by D3 people are still switching characters/alignments it could be game-ruining.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby VectorZero » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:39 pm UTC

I can confirm Vytron has day chat with me.
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby quintopia » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:41 pm UTC

My guess is that it wasn't supposed to be a Bastard game, but the mod made a huge mistake somewhere, and all this rejiggering is meant to fix it. On the other hand, it remains possible that there are powers at work. Given I'm unlikely to be in a game this large ever again, I'll stick it out just to see what happens.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby RoadieRich » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:43 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:I agree with frogman that Nebuduck's claim that their role has changed looks like a desperate move, and think that it would be really bad for the game if they changed alignment just after several votes piled on them (what would this be? "Oh, town is going to mislynch D1, I can't let that happen *ZAP* now, there we go, you're scum now and town will lynch correctly" or "No! Town is going to lynch correctly D1! That foils my plans and the course of the game! *ZAP* Okay, a mislynch is now on the way".) If Nebuduck was scum before then it changes nothing and if they're lying they've been always scum.

I did mod a game where there were a lot of things that were kept from the players. If we'd kept things as they were, the game would have ended N1, purely through (bad) luck. So we swapped a couple of pre-game random.org results - although nothing as critical as alignment - and continued as normal. It was well publicised, however, that there was information the players were missing.

Sungura wrote:Nebu and carlington most obvious, probably freezerblade after that, then minestrone and Madge. Mega because always.

Based purely on my knowledge of Sungura's meta, I'm really tempted to change my vote to Nebuduck, and vote Sungura/Replacement D2 if Nebu flips Town. But I'm not going to, because Cycoden still hasn't said anything else.

Vytron wrote:It's like Mafia Redux mixed with Back to the Future Mafia, except in the latter people started with 3 roles for three simultaneous games, and these kind of alignment changed only happened with cult recruits, but at least I'm used to these crazy concepts (too bad only as mod, never as player...)

I didn't play those, but I'm seeing definite hints of Somnambulist Amnesia Mafia (the game I mentioned above).

Fair warning: My Doctor is adjusting my anti-depressants, so I'm not sure how reliable my brain is going to be over the next few days.
73, de KE8BSL loc EN26.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 1. Where are we?

Postby Vytron » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:47 pm UTC

Yeah, guys, we're not making this up. I've just been informed that ThinkSweet or ConMan used to be Alan, but are no longer them, so one of them should be able to corroborate that they have switched characters (that sounds to weird... I mean to say one of them was Alan, and now they're someone else.)

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@quintopia: I disagree, the flavor and mechanical changes mentioned in my PM seems very elaborate and looks as if it was planned all along. Everything seems intentional, though I don't know if the mod is rolling dice to decide what is being changed (i.e. Mega would have become who am I now regardless of everything else, or not if the dice gave different numbers).

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@RoadieRich: Yeah, it's that we weren't told about the possibility of alignment changes what makes this bastard.


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