Browsers

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Hammer
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Browsers

Postby Hammer » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:27 pm UTC

Like this one needs any elaboration. :roll:
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Re: Browsers

Postby trickster721 » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:34 pm UTC

I'm against them.

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Re: Browsers

Postby zombie_monkey » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:36 pm UTC

I use w3m. I've tried lynx and elinks and others but w3m's definitely the best one out there, among text-mode browsers.

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tiny
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Re: Browsers

Postby tiny » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:02 pm UTC

Damn it! I read the rules and now I was beat to the first answer in this post. That's what you get for being a good user *cries*

I am an a-browser-ist. I don't believe in a 'best' browser. They are all little assholes that confuse me or crash on me or don't display sites I like or kick my friend Catherine and pee in my boots while I'm sleeping.

I used IE when I first got online from my mother's comp and it was ok. Now I hate it. For obvious reasons concerning M$ privacy policy and security.
Then I had AOL on my first own computer, I admit it. I wanted to get online sooo badly o.o But it was really only a month because it sucked big hairy monkey balls and was way too expensive.
After that I installed SuSe and used Conqueror. This browser annoyed me as much as the OS because it had issues with displaying of some of the pages I wanted to visit on a regular basis.
I then got a Mac and used Safari for a while until I found a site I liked and wanted to visit more often, but Safari didn't display it right.
So I changed to Firefox which turned out to be the most instable program ever to be installed on my machine. No three days passed without Firefox crashing. It got better with every update but it still annoyed me, especially when I found a great webcomic that Firefox seemed to hate. It crashed. Again and again when I loaded this page.
So I gave Opera another shot. Opera has always confused me (that's why I chose Firefox after Safari) and it was a pain in the behind to do the transition. Opera doesn't import bookmarks from Firefox. It doesn't have a horizontal bookmark bar. The 'back' button doesn't work right on some sites. It doesn't always react to clicks. It's annoying!!

So at the moment I have to say, as much as I loathe Firefox' instability I'm back to using it. As a sad, desillusioned a-browser-ist.
If anyone knows a sleek, stable, unconfusing browser for OS X that doesn't tend to fuck up sites, please tell me. I googled, but I only found some for Linux or *gulp* Win... stuff.
I'm willing to give myself into the hands of every good missionary. I am willing to believe in a browser! Just give me proof, someone! Give me proof that there is a browser worthy of my devotion!
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Re: Browsers

Postby Dingbats » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:44 pm UTC

tiny wrote:If anyone knows a sleek, stable, unconfusing browser for OS X that doesn't tend to fuck up sites, please tell me. I googled, but I only found some for Linux or *gulp* Win... stuff.
I'm willing to give myself into the hands of every good missionary. I am willing to believe in a browser! Just give me proof, someone! Give me proof that there is a browser worthy of my devotion!

I haven't tried it much myself, but Camino is supposed to be quite good.

Myself, I've never had any issues with Firefox on any OS.

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Re: Browsers

Postby LDJosh » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:41 pm UTC

considering I do web-dev for a living, I HAVE to test in all 4 major browsers for support (ie, ff, op, saf). There are pros and cons to each. each interprets css or javascript or something slightly different than the others, but as far as usability and features, interface, etc... firefox just seems ahead of the game. it's plethora of plugins and themes and end user shortcuts, features, etc. just make it my personal browser of choice. IE is too picky about security and whatnot. it just makes casual web browsing a chore. opera would be my second pick, closely behind safari. they're nearly tied, but i've seen safari screw up more web pages than opera.
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Re: Browsers

Postby BurntCornMuffin » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:45 pm UTC

Yeah, I love Firefox because it's very customizable through plugins, so you can make it as functional as you want. IE has always seemed to be rather clunky in my opinion, and very insecure despite the plethora of "features" designed to ward off bad things. Opera seems pretty nice, too.
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Re: Browsers

Postby sebbeklang » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:06 pm UTC

opera. the search engine keywords and the tab alt-tabbing makes it better than safari, which i think looks better. haven't put too much effort into making opera look better though.

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Re: Browsers

Postby Matthias » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:50 pm UTC

I mostly use Firefox nowadays, but I'm also rather fond of Avant. It's based off of IE (Version 6 now, I think), with a lot of added functionality. It had tabbed browsing way before IE ever did, although I'm not sure who came first between Avant and Firefox. It can also be minimized to your taskbar notification area if you want to go stealthy. And, you can set your windows to auto-refresh at various intervals, from 10 seconds on up to 15 minutes.

The coolest feature, however, is the built-in mouse gestures. You hold down the right mouse button, and move the cursor in a certain manner (the browser has 18 that it recognizes) and it performs different functions. Close all except current page, save all pages and exit, go to first tabbed page, etc.

I guess the only thing I don't like about it in comparison to Firefox is the whole IE security issues thing. I only seem to pick up adware when I use IE or Avant.
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Re: Browsers

Postby zombie_monkey » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:21 pm UTC

hah, Avant still exists? It was pretty awesome. I went like Netscape -> IE -> Opera -> Avant -> Firefox

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Re: Browsers

Postby zenten » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:29 pm UTC

So is there anyone here that actually *likes* IE? Or did IE 7 make them all give up and use Firefox? (talking just about the users who are smart enough to know how to install a program of course)

And I tend to use Firefox, but Epiphany isn't so bad.

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Re: Browsers

Postby b.i.o » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:39 pm UTC

While I haven't actually ever used Opera (I've been so happy with Firefox...) I can not stand using IE (beyond the general IE stuff the default interface is cluttered and ugly and no one I know actually changes any of it) and while Safari is clean looking I find it to be lacking features (and extensions...) that Firefox has. Firefox I love because it can have a very functional yet minimalistic interface, keywords for searches (I just started using these about a month ago--I will never go back) and extensions go without saying.

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Re: Browsers

Postby tiny » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:00 pm UTC

Dingbats wrote:
tiny wrote:If anyone knows a sleek, stable, unconfusing browser for OS X that doesn't tend to fuck up sites, please tell me. (...)

I haven't tried it much myself, but Camino is supposed to be quite good.
Thanks for the tip! I'll try it :-)
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Re: Browsers

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:36 pm UTC

Firefox+plugins. without plugins I'd use Opera though, which already has a lot of features included that I use Firefox plugins for (like mouse gestures), but the plugins definitely make the browser.
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Re: Browsers

Postby Rodan » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:03 am UTC

How can it be anything but Firefox?

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Re: Browsers

Postby semicolon » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:09 am UTC

Firefox + all the extensions needed to give it as much functionality as Opera < Opera. Firefox is pretty damn slow in comparison. That said, I still use Firefox.

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Re: Browsers

Postby Gadren » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:12 am UTC

I use Firefox because I'm addicted to its extensions. However, I use Lynx for Windows when surfing Encyclopedia Dramatica... for obvious reasons.

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Re: Browsers

Postby Master Gunner » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:03 am UTC

I alternate between Firefox and Opera. I've used Firefox for a couple years now after I finally got fed up with IE, and it's served me fairly well since then. Now my brother is trying to get me to switch to Opera, which he claims is better, but I just like and am used to Firefox, so I still use that most of the time.

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Re: Browsers

Postby bbctol » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:13 am UTC

Firefox! Rally to the banner!

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Re: Browsers

Postby nyeguy » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:00 am UTC

tiny wrote:
Dingbats wrote:
tiny wrote:If anyone knows a sleek, stable, unconfusing browser for OS X that doesn't tend to fuck up sites, please tell me. (...)

I haven't tried it much myself, but Camino is supposed to be quite good.
Thanks for the tip! I'll try it :-)

Definitely use Camino. It improves over Safari feature-wise, plus it uses Gecko, and its lightweight. Your Firefox experience doesn't surprise me, though. Its a good browser on Windows, but on Mac, it feels like... A Windows browser ported to Mac (very poorly).

zenten wrote:So is there anyone here that actually *likes* IE? Or did IE 7 make them all give up and use Firefox? (talking just about the users who are smart enough to know how to install a program of course)

I hate IE with a fiery passion. Web-developer. 'Nuff said.
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Re: Browsers

Postby Korandder » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:08 am UTC

Firefox.

Although I am rather annoyed that we are still using version 1.5 at work, especally considering that it does not get along well with Flash. Also as a dyslexic I need my spell checker.
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Re: Browsers

Postby photosinensis » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:11 am UTC

Firefox for the everyday stuff, and Konqueror as a "backup".
While I clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning,
And my heart was filled with mournng, mourning for my dear amour.
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Re: Browsers

Postby OfficiallyHaphazard » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:29 am UTC

I (with a mac) have been using safari. I have attempted to move over to firefox a couple of times but it consistently crashes for me.
with safariStand, safari isnt that bad.

what is better about camino?
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Re: Browsers

Postby dazomby » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:52 am UTC

Firefox.
The extensoins make it rule.

I tried Opera for a while, but it didn't quite agree with me.
Lynx was nice too. Though it has gone a long time since I used it.

For absolute horror, try IE ported to UNIX.
Yuck, now i've got to dip my hands in HCl to remove the stains from that sentence.

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Re: Browsers

Postby evilbeanfiend » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:34 pm UTC

telnet to port 80

nah firefox really +
adblock plus
adblock plus element hider
all in one gestures
british dictionary
dictionary tooltip
faviconize tab
long titles
options menu
undo closed tab button
update notifier
url link
in ur beanz makin u eveel

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Re: Browsers

Postby pieaholicx » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:51 pm UTC

tiny wrote:So at the moment I have to say, as much as I loathe Firefox' instability I'm back to using it. As a sad, desillusioned a-browser-ist.
If anyone knows a sleek, stable, unconfusing browser for OS X that doesn't tend to fuck up sites, please tell me. I googled, but I only found some for Linux or *gulp* Win... stuff.
I'm willing to give myself into the hands of every good missionary. I am willing to believe in a browser! Just give me proof, someone! Give me proof that there is a browser worthy of my devotion!

I've heard many people who will stand by OmniWeb as the best browser for Mac, however I've never tried it (don't own a Mac), and you have to buy it.

For me, I use Firefox, and on occasion Safari (Windows). I've tried Opera, but the UI annoys me for unknown reasons. I like Safari, however there's one bug in it that annoys the hell out of me, and that's that if I open a new tab while another tab is loading, it will occasionally clear out the url I'm typing in the new tab. I have IE6 and IE7 installed, however I only use them to check how compatible a site design is with them, and to do Windows updates.
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Re: Browsers

Postby davean » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:43 pm UTC

evilbeanfiend wrote:telnet to port 80


Dude, use netcat.

dazomby wrote:For absolute horror, try IE ported to UNIX.
Yuck, now i've got to dip my hands in HCl to remove the stains from that sentence.


I've got IE4Linux, its a nice wine install of IE 5 and 6. I use it whenever I want to see people curl up and die in horror. Also, it would be useful if I ever supported a browser. Only, browser bugs are the browser's fault; why should I avoid them?

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Re: Browsers

Postby evilbeanfiend » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:54 pm UTC

davean wrote:
evilbeanfiend wrote:telnet to port 80


Dude, use netcat.


but some web pages are best viewed in telnet http://www.dgate.org/~brg/bvtelnet80/
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Re: Browsers

Postby tiny » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:14 pm UTC

nyeguy wrote:(...) Your Firefox experience doesn't surprise me, though. Its a good browser on Windows, but on Mac, it feels like... A Windows browser ported to Mac (very poorly).
That would explain why most people are surprised when I bitch about Firefox.

I'm using Camino at the moment. The transition was easy, I could simply import all bookmarks.
Up until now it works fine and can handle my habit of opening dozens of tabs. I even found a nice skin (though I only have the 'back', 'forth' and 'stop loading' button plus url-thingy in my toolbar, so a skin doesn't make that much of a difference to me).
Btw: Firefox is ugly. Opera is the one with the highest level of aesthetics when it comes to skins. Camino is somewhere in the middle (though you could consider it a negative point that you don't have skins that encompass all graphical aspects of the browser, plus you have to install an extra program to pimp it, and manually put themes in the correct folder. Personally I like figuring out stuff like that - on a medium level of difficulty - and doing some DIY, but I guess most people don't.)

EDIT: Best thing about Camino: With the extended preferences pane I could tell him to do a google search whenever I type something in the url-thingy that isn't a web adress. Gone the additional 'do google'-thingy in the toolbar!
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Re: Browsers

Postby SimonM » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:07 am UTC

Firefox

Best Browser.

There are so many reasons but the main ones are...

* Awesome rendering engine
* Fast loading
* Plugins
* Extensions
* Sweetness

Problems

* Who stole my memories?!
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Re: Browsers

Postby OfficiallyHaphazard » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:15 am UTC

SimonM wrote:Firefox

Best Browser.

There are so many reasons but the main ones are...

* Awesome rendering engine
* Fast loading
* Plugins
* Extensions
* Sweetness

Problems

* Who stole my memories?!


This thread doesn't have enough flare


We are talking on a mac:
Firefox Sucks
Why? It is slower than hell* and crashes all the time. Also it is ugly, and for some reason I hate their tabbed-browsing system, or at least their old one.

Also, I have not yet found a plugin that I could live without.

Safari (3) has what I need for a fast and simple web browsing experience, and I can easily drag feeds into my toolbar such that a single click will open up all of them sorted however I want.
Plus, it just fits right in with the mac feeling.

*Hell, according to my calculations moves at 4mph.

also, I cannot wait to see what wrathful responses I will receive
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Re: Browsers

Postby Kythyria » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:31 pm UTC

zenten wrote:So is there anyone here that actually *likes* IE? Or did IE 7 make them all give up and use Firefox? (talking just about the users who are smart enough to know how to install a program of course)

And I tend to use Firefox, but Epiphany isn't so bad.

It was seeing IE7 on someone else's computer that made me use Firefox: IE7 has a weird interface with no way of making it look like IE6 or FF, but it had tabs. Then after the first ten minutes using FF, I started hating IE6 for not having tabs, and for not having the extension system.

Now I occasionally middle click on links when forced to use IE6 and wonder why nothing happens.

I've ended up thinking FF is the best browser yet. Extensions, tabs, XUL, and the renderer isn't weird like IE6's.
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Re: Browsers

Postby b.i.o » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:44 am UTC

OfficiallyHaphazard wrote:Also it is ugly [...]


That's what themes are for...

My Firefox is currently dark and beautiful and minimalist and very very functional.


And as for addons...TabMixPlus (tabbing options galore!) + FEBE (I have 600+ bookmarks I would really hate to lose) + Adblock Plus (you mean people still look at flash ads?) + Scrapbook (It was more useful when I was in dialup but it's still nice to be able to save perfect snapshots of pages without having to worry about formatting or having an internet connection)

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Re: Browsers

Postby Amnesiasoft » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:56 am UTC

I went from IE -> Firebird (because IE hateed Earthlink for some reason) -> Firefox -> Firebird (because Fx was slow also) -> Opera. Because every single extension that was needed to make Firefox a useable browser is built into Opera. I think the real problem with people and the Opera UI is that stupid Start bar, it's just annoying and in the way 99% of the time. Still can't beat my Opera setup in terms of usability and minimalism, address bar and web page. Nothing else.

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Re: Browsers

Postby wing » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:23 am UTC

I wrote out a detailed post reviewing every browser I ever used. And then Firefox memleaked-out and killed Linux, so I had to restart X.

Here's the brief summary.

I. Hate. Them. All. They all have their own distinct showstopping flaw.

Of them, IE7 is the least combatative and it does everything I fucking tell it to do. I don't give a rat's about standards compliance right now, because the basic ability to USE a modern web browser is such a hard commodity to come across. However, IE7 does not run on 64-bit Linux. This is the showstopper.

Firefox leaks memory like a stuck pig. Under Windows, this isn't too bad, because task manager runs with an abusrdly high priority so you can kill Firefox when it smashes the system. You can't do that in Linux. Also, Flash support under 64bit Linux doesn't officially exist, so either you have to hack the 32bit plugin into 64bit Firefox, or hack 32bit Firefox into 64bit Linux (which involves installing a 32bit kernel and chrooting).

Opera only JUST became available for 64bit Linux. In Alpha format. It's currently my browser of choice. However, there is NO way to get Flash to work in 64bit Opera (aside from, theoretically, gnash. Which doesn't work in practice, and sucks anyway). So, if you want Flash, you either have to keep Firefox around for those occasional viewings (and thus inevitably forget the window is open and have it nuke everything you're working on with a memory leak) or hack 32bit Opera to run on 64bit Linux (which involves installing a 32bit kernel and chrooting)

Other Linux browsers (Konquerer, et al) are USELESS.

Text mode browsers are cute toys.

Wget doesn't display anything.

Mozilla proper is undermaintained and sucks.

Netscape is Mozilla.

Seamonkey is Firefox with some fins glued on.

Safari doesn't run on 64bit Linux. It didn't run on Vista-64 either. I understand the Safari-on-Windows experience wasn't nice anyway.



Yeah. That just about covers it.
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Re: Browsers

Postby davean » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:04 am UTC

You clearly know nothing about linux at the very least. There is no problem at *all* just running 32 bit apps on 64bit linux. *nothing special is done at all to accomplish this*. You just run it. In addition, you can't chroot into another kernel. Can not be done. Doesn't even make sense.

Also, you can run IE on 32 or 64 bit linux just fine. IE7 on linux is experimental but works fine it seems.

Also, just change to another console. If you can restart X then it didn't kill linux at all.

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Re: Browsers

Postby wing » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:47 am UTC

davean wrote:You clearly know nothing about linux at the very least. There is no problem at *all* just running 32 bit apps on 64bit linux. *nothing special is done at all to accomplish this*. You just run it. In addition, you can't chroot into another kernel. Can not be done. Doesn't even make sense.

Also, you can run IE on 32 or 64 bit linux just fine. IE7 on linux is experimental but works fine it seems.

Also, just change to another console. If you can restart X then it didn't kill linux at all.

Intriguing. This information conflicts all that my mentors have told me. Perhaps is it time for the student to break free from his masters, who apparently don't know of what they speak. (And no. I don't know shit about Linux. I have less than a year put into it, and only a few months SERIOUSLY into it)

Now excuse me while I download some 32bit binaries and see if what you speak is true.

Hrm. The package manager didn't like the 32bit package.

Annnd. Apparently, no. I can't just run 32bit Opera in 64bit Linux.

Code: Select all

tony@SLAB-UBUNTU:~$ opera
ERROR: ld.so: object 'libjvm.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
ERROR: ld.so: object 'libawt.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
/home/tony/lib/opera/9.24-20071015.6/opera: error while loading shared libraries: libqt-mt.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

I have that - in 64bit format. So, apparently I also need to build the full dependency tree in 32bit format. Unfortunately, that's not doable without breaking 64bit apps.

So. I guess simple 32bit code will run - but complex stuff with dependencies can't be run unless you want to break other things.

This is probably where the chrooting comes in - having a duplicate filesystem for the 32bit apps to sandbox in.

So... You can run 32bit Opera in 64bit Linux. If you have lots of free time.

Similarly, you can run IE on Linux using Wine. But for fuck's sake - why in the name of god should I have to do THAT?! OpenSource developers and fanbois love to make a great deal of noise about why they're better than the boys in Redmond, and the best web browser I can run on Linux is... Microsoft's? It boggles the fucking mind that back in the day, with my Netscape on a mac with 24mb of RAM, the full web experience could be handled with primitive, crappy software on a primitive, crappy computer (WE EVEN HAD FLASH! AND IT WORKED!) - and here we are, a decade later, and the experience hasn't changed much at all, but web browsers have regressed in quality and now consume HUNDREDS of times as much RAM with ease.

And as for "if you can restart X it didn't kill Linux at all" - pure pedantry. If I have to lose everything I was executing in my primary (Read: X) session, it killed it. This isn't Windows where you can kill and restart Explorer willy-nilly and never lose anything of value.


Edit: Well, fuck. IE in Linux doesn't even work well. Okay, the web browsing part works fine. But I already have 3483848924389438883249089032454798 browsers that do that decently. However, the whole Flash part is.... Uh, yeah. Broken. It WORKS, but it flashes in such a manner as to cause epileptic fits, I think I'm noticing a pattern, here. And this pattern is best defined as "Web 2.0 morons are obsessed with a technology that simply only works if you went and bought a Dell with Windows XP on it and didn't try to change anything."

I should probably go back to my corner and pretend this whole Web 2.0 mess isn't happening again, because it's quite obvious that the marketroids driving the "movement" have no interest in the 64bit Linux platform (just like they had no interest in the 64bit Vista platform I used before this - but then I had an inbuilt 32bit compatability layer that made their crap work anyway)
I AM A SEXY, SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!
Akula wrote:Our team has turned into this hate-fueled juggernaut of profit. It's goddamn wonderful.

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davean
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Re: Browsers

Postby davean » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:38 am UTC

Code: Select all

ls -1 /usr/
X11R6
bin
games
i686-linux-gnu
i686-pc-linux-gnu
include
kde
lib
[b]lib32
lib64[/b]
libexec
local
man
nagios
portage
powerpc-linux-gnu
qt
sbin
share
src
tmp
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu


See that? Thats your 64bit and 32bit libs installed right along side each other. No problems there. Maybe your problem is you are runnign Ubuntu, the only OS buggier then Windows Vista (Windows ME being the beta release).

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davean
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Re: Browsers

Postby davean » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:43 am UTC

Fine, fine, I suck at being mean; look, I've found you a tutorial on not sucking: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/534 . Not that you shouldn't have known all that already. Your ignorance isn't the browser's fault though. And, yah, other distros you just go "enable 32bit also", much better and cleaner then buggy Ubuntu's.

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wing
the /b/slayer
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Re: Browsers

Postby wing » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:12 pm UTC

Obnoxious. But doable.

But it seems that we have digressed from the holy war and from my point - MODERN WEB BROWSERS FUCKING SUCK ENORMOUSLY. It shouldn't require the use of 4 different apps to get the whole "Web Experience" to the user in a simple, easy-to-use fashion. In these days where I can count the number of websites I go to on 2 hands, I *CERTAINLY* shouldn't - especially when, in 1997, aside from being able to take a nap while an image loaded, I was able to go to HUNDREDS and see every last bit of content from within the walls of Netscape 3.

Seriously. Yes, I know, a significant number of my bitchpoints hinge on a fucking plugin developer's lack of support for anything (well, actually, on idiot web developer's insistence on throwing large sums of money at that plugin developer despite their lack of support for anything) but they've been around since I had a fucking 28.8 modem on my motherfucking Pentium-flawed Packard Bell and a fucking 33.6 modem on my motherfucking M68020 mac! It's not like they haven't burned us before by being lazy cunts - they've been at it for a GOD DAMNED DECADE. WHY DO WE STILL FUCKING USE IT FOR CONTENT!? If GCC only worked on 16-bit systems, and only if you had a certain kernel version, we wouldn't be using fucking GCC now, would we?


On a side note, Ubuntu has been getting on my tits enough recently that I've been tempted sorely to switch to Gentoo or something. Maybe while I'm on break here. But that's for ANOTHER religious war. Why don't we have that one yet?
I AM A SEXY, SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!
Akula wrote:Our team has turned into this hate-fueled juggernaut of profit. It's goddamn wonderful.


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