Food fleeting thoughts

Apparently, people like to eat.

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby PAstrychef » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:42 pm UTC

It really depends on the filling, but an all butter crust with very little sugar, a bit more salt and some chopped herbs works well. If you can get good leaf lard that makes a fantastic savory crust. If the pie has two crusts then it doesn’t get par-baked. If it only has one then par-baking is a good idea.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Sungura » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:53 am UTC

PAstrychef wrote:It really depends on the filling, but an all butter crust with very little sugar, a bit more salt and some chopped herbs works well. If you can get good leaf lard that makes a fantastic savory crust. If the pie has two crusts then it doesn’t get par-baked. If it only has one then par-baking is a good idea.

Two crusts...as in a base and top? Yes it will have a top. Thanks I havenever heard that before! Makes sense i guess, so it seals around the top.

And thats good to know as thats what i havemade before. But willing to try something new...thinking sounds like hot water crust or moos just buy it idea lol.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Moo » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:52 am UTC

As I was typing out my request for ideas for a dinner party dish, I decided to do a broth fondue, so thanks Food sub for helping me clarify my thoughts :D
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby PAstrychef » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:14 pm UTC

The best bread for French toast is:
Brioche
Challa
White sandwich bread (fairly dense, NOT American air bread)
Sourdough
Cinnamon swirl, with or without raisins
Pound cake
Angel food cake (best topped with ice cream)
How do I make this a poll?
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Zohar » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:28 pm UTC

You don't have to, the answer is brioche.

Though I suppose if you really wanted to - create a new thread, or create a poll somewhere else and link from here.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby freezeblade » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:32 pm UTC

You'd have to start a new post I think.
My vote is challah, which also makes great hamburger buns. A naturally fermented (sourdough) pan di mie or vienna bread can work out really well as a close second, (a craggy sourdough lean bread can work, but needs a longer soak). Cinnamon swirl makes a great treat.

Brioche makes terrible french toast, as well as hamburger buns, contrary to what many restaurants seem to think. Although my vote for worst is pound cake, there's not enough air bubbles in there to soak up the egg mix properly. Never tried angel food cake, as I don't often have it laying around, but I could see it maybe working out pretty well.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Sandry » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:57 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:Brioche makes terrible french toast


Zohar wrote:You don't have to, the answer is brioche.


FIGHT! FIGHT! :P

(Actually, I want to hear why freezeblade asserts brioche french toast is bad.)

I think I might go cinnamon swirl (without raisins - raisins are abominations).
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby freezeblade » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:05 pm UTC

Brioche already has about 40% of the flour weight as butter*, which in buns and as french toast does not give it much ability to soak in Egg or burger juices without becoming a stodgy, buttery mess. It's also quite a delicate bread, due to it's high quantity of enrichment, and is hard to have it hold up to a proper juicy burger, or any length of egg mix soak.

*depending on who's making it, a "poor man's brioche" per Reinhart (IIRC) at about 20% butter could work, but at that point is basically pain au latte or pain di mie anyway
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby sardia » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:34 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:Brioche already has about 40% of the flour weight as butter*, which in buns and as french toast does not give it much ability to soak in Egg or burger juices without becoming a stodgy, buttery mess. It's also quite a delicate bread, due to it's high quantity of enrichment, and is hard to have it hold up to a proper juicy burger, or any length of egg mix soak.

*depending on who's making it, a "poor man's brioche" per Reinhart (IIRC) at about 20% butter could work, but at that point is basically pain au latte or pain di mie anyway

Isn't that only a problem for pub burgers? Most cheapo burgers are cooked well done, and rely on sauces and condiments.

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby freezeblade » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:24 pm UTC

I'm not sure what the differentiation is for "pub burgers," unless you mean "not fast food burgers." Honestly I've never had a fast food burger on brioche, nor have I had many of this type of burger in general, so my assessment may be skewed towards more "high end burgers."

I'm sure that a brioche bun from a fast food place wouldn't be an accurate representation of brioche anyway in the long run, too expensive to produce a proper one with all those enrichments (mainly butter). The only one of the major chains that I can think of that have this sort of bun is Jack in the Box, with their "buttery" series, but I don't think they call it brioche either. Compare this to burgers in a typical Bistro or medium/high end, where at least half seem to be on a brioche bun (around these parts at least).

I love a good burger, but if I have a craving for a burger, and the place only has it on a brioche bun, I choose something else.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby sardia » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:36 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:I'm not sure what the differentiation is for "pub burgers," unless you mean "not fast food burgers." Honestly I've never had a fast food burger on brioche, nor have I had many of this type of burger in general, so my assessment may be skewed towards more "high end burgers."

I'm sure that a brioche bun from a fast food place wouldn't be an accurate representation of brioche anyway in the long run, too expensive to produce a proper one with all those enrichments (mainly butter). The only one of the major chains that I can think of that have this sort of bun is Jack in the Box, with their "buttery" series, but I don't think they call it brioche either. Compare this to burgers in a typical Bistro or medium/high end, where at least half seem to be on a brioche bun (around these parts at least).

I love a good burger, but if I have a craving for a burger, and the place only has it on a brioche bun, I choose something else.

https://firstwefeast.com/eat/2013/01/th ... pub-burger
"large patties usually no smaller than 8 ounces, often 10 ounces or more. Typically ovoid in shape rather than flat. Most often seen in pubs (hence the name), where they’re often broiled.”"
There's other styles of burgers, but a pub burger is the most common. It's thick to get a crust+juicy interior. Another style is the smash burger,
https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/03/the ... ashin.html
thin patties that focus on good mallard reaction crust. There are other styles too, but the three categories are good enough.
Fast food burgers typically have higher ratio of bun to meat, but are optimized for cost savings and sanitation.

I wouldn't consider in out Burger or 5 guys to be a smash Burger style, but it's closer to a fast food style.

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby freezeblade » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:06 pm UTC

Well, pretty much every "not fast food burger" here qualifies as a pub burger then. Yes, these are the type that does not work with a brioche bun, yet seem most likely to have one. "Smash" style would seem to work alright with brioche, yet interestingly I've never seen a place (we even have a place called smash burger) with this type of burger advertising a brioche bun.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Thesh » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:23 pm UTC

I want to try and cut back on my meat, egg and dairy consumption. What are some good things to easily just add to my diet with little effort while ensuring I meet my dietary requirements? Spaghetti and falafels or other vegan "meatball" is an obvious one. I was going to try making a vegan chorizo with mushrooms and lentils with nutritional yeast for breakfast burritos.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Quercus » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:54 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:I want to try and cut back on my meat, egg and dairy consumption. What are some good things to easily just add to my diet with little effort while ensuring I meet my dietary requirements? Spaghetti and falafels or other vegan "meatball" is an obvious one. I was going to try making a vegan chorizo with mushrooms and lentils with nutritional yeast for breakfast burritos.


Scrambled tofu is a great alternative to scrambled eggs. As for fake meats I think the best of the bunch is seitan (assuming you're okay with gluten) - you can get vital wheat gluten to make it with relatively inexpensively online. Upping your intake of pulses is a good way to ensure you still get a good level of protein in your diet inexpensively. Middle Eastern and South Asian cuisines are a great place to look for recipes that have lots of pulses.

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby sardia » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:10 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:I want to try and cut back on my meat, egg and dairy consumption. What are some good things to easily just add to my diet with little effort while ensuring I meet my dietary requirements? Spaghetti and falafels or other vegan "meatball" is an obvious one. I was going to try making a vegan chorizo with mushrooms and lentils with nutritional yeast for breakfast burritos.

I feel that mimicking meat products is a fools errand (barring future advancements in the fake meat industry). Easy would be roasted or steamed vegetables. Broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, asparagus etc etc. As long as you don't cheap out by eating easily digested carbs with no fiber.
A simple bean or lentil stew works. Do you want recipes, and can we use flavourful meats as enhancers? Aka, using anchovies in your stew, meat stock, or an egg in your sauce? What equipment do you have? Pressure cookers? Blenders? Mortars? Dutch oven?

*Indian food is only worth it if you plan to cook it often. Otherwise you're stuck with a bunch of spices that isn't used in much else.

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby poxic » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:26 pm UTC

The above two posters are not talking nonsense. Here's another perspective.

I found that learning to cook veg*n was like learning to cook all over again, in some ways. My route was to buy a pile of cookbooks and try random stuff from each of them. (The internet is much more a thing these days so that's a cheaper option.)

Eventually I figured out some new cooking techniques, plus what kinds of things I liked and how much fuss in the kitchen I was willing to put up with. Now I rarely use recipes unless it's for company or a cake/bread thing.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Zohar » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:57 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:I want to try and cut back on my meat, egg and dairy consumption. What are some good things to easily just add to my diet with little effort while ensuring I meet my dietary requirements? Spaghetti and falafels or other vegan "meatball" is an obvious one. I was going to try making a vegan chorizo with mushrooms and lentils with nutritional yeast for breakfast burritos.

Legumes are a veg*an's friend. Learn how to cook them, and cook them well. Look for dishes and cuisines that use those a lot. Ethiopian cuisine has a lot of vegan options, we've been liking Teff Love.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby sardia » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:03 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Legumes are a veg*an's friend. Learn how to cook them, and cook them well. Look for dishes and cuisines that use those a lot. Ethiopian cuisine has a lot of vegan options, we've been liking Teff Love.

Got a good legume stew recipe?

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby freezeblade » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:07 pm UTC

As far as "fake meat" for breakfast burritos, I've found that the "soyrizo" chorizo replacement as a pretty damn good replacement, as the meat protein isn't the star anyhow.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Zohar » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:00 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
Zohar wrote:Legumes are a veg*an's friend. Learn how to cook them, and cook them well. Look for dishes and cuisines that use those a lot. Ethiopian cuisine has a lot of vegan options, we've been liking Teff Love.

Got a good legume stew recipe?

We make Missir Wat from that book relatively often. I make dahl sometimes.


Edit: Sorry, for Missir Wat I'd use a recipe from the book I mentioned, for dahl I'd just make it up on the spot. Chili is another option for good legume-y food.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Thesh » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:24 am UTC

Thanks, I'll look into some of that. I have a blender, and will probably need to buy a food processor and at some point I'll probably get an instant pot. I'll probably try that soyrizo, although as much as possible I'm trying to avoid fake meats and instead go with things that aren't meat in dishes that don't require meat.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby PAstrychef » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:41 am UTC

Koshary is an Egyptian dish of lentils, rice and pasta with tomato sauce and caramelized onions. Some versions add chickpeas as well.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Sungura » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:30 am UTC

Allll these recipes of adding dry ingredients together and mixing to add later....and they dont even have the common sense to put those first in the recipe. they'll be scattered all over the ingredient list like it was made in random order.
...I've *never* done that. Never mixed the dry beforehand.

I re-write my recipes so it's all in fucking order of what is being done. Dry ingredients get added like any other.

...it very rarely makes a lick of difference. the only time i've actually had to actually sift in the mix of dry ingredients is for macarons.

But even if it did matter - WHY IS IT A WHERE IS WALDO TO FIND IN THE MASSIVE LIST WHICH DRY INGREDIENTS WANT PREMIXED? All recipes written that way. Whyyyy. why tourture my mind like that? It takes 10 damn minutes to find the amount of ingredient to add 'cause it is always mixed up!

No. I write out my own cards and i make it logical. In order with the quantity, text of what to do. In. Order. None of the some of column A some of colum B find in both to match.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Mikeski » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:22 am UTC

My recipe pet peeve: quantities listed as one unit in the ingredients list which are then used in smaller quantities in separate steps in the instructions.

"1 cup of vegetable oil". OK.

"1 onion, diced". OK.

"fry the onion in 1/4 cup of vegetable oil..." Argh!

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Sungura » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:38 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:My recipe pet peeve: quantities listed as one unit in the ingredients list which are then used in smaller quantities in separate steps in the instructions.

"1 cup of vegetable oil". OK.

"1 onion, diced". OK.

"fry the onion in 1/4 cup of vegetable oil..." Argh!

I screwed up a recipe halfway theough last week doing that.

I think i need to re write the whole recipe BEFORE starting because they never seem written logically. And even pre reading them ill get to that spot and have forgotten!

We need a recipe-revolution. LOGICAL written ones only from now on!
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby PAstrychef » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:52 pm UTC

I try to write out recipes as if the next person following them will be some prep cook who is brand new. The only time I use comments like “creaming method” or “SBP” (standard breading procedure) is when it’s just a note for a coworker.
One reason for mixing the dry ingredients first is to ensure even distribution of things like salt and levening agents. This might be more necessary at the industrial scale. It also removes lumps and aerates the mixture a bit, which is important in some recipes.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Sungura » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:22 pm UTC

Not sure where else to ask this:
So someone sent me a french cookie cookbook. Not sure who! Drop ship no note!
Anyway. Most of the recipes call for weird thungs I have never heard of. I looked and there is no “prep section” or such.

One the things I see in a lot of recipes is “almond sugar”
...whut.
Internet seems unhelpful.
Considering like the macaron recipe doesnt have almond flour in it; i am guessing a fine almond flour? But then there would be no sugar. Is almond sugar some proprietary mix of of almond flour and sugar? Or is there really sugar made from almonds?

I can guess what “chestnut paste” is but no clue how to make that either. I dont even know where to buy chestnuts so i guess i have to wait for them to be in season here and grab them off the trails as I hike?
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby sardia » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:47 pm UTC

Can you post a picture? I would guess almonds coated with sugar.

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Quercus » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:10 pm UTC

Sungura wrote:I can guess what “chestnut paste” is but no clue how to make that either. I dont even know where to buy chestnuts so i guess i have to wait for them to be in season here and grab them off the trails as I hike?


It's a specifically French thing - you can find it in larger UK supermarkets if you're over here any time in the near future (e.g. https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs ... puree-200g). It's made with European sweet chestnut (Castanea sativa), so unless it's a cultivated or invasive species where you are you're unlikely to find it around. I was under the impression that American chestnut (Castanea dentata) is more or less functionally extinct due to chestnut blight, so if that's what you've got around I'm kinda surprised and impressed.

Definitely don't use horse chestnut (Aesculus spp.), as those are poisonous without "extensive preparation" (I didn't look what that involved - but they're unlikely to taste anything like sweet chestnut anyway).

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby PAstrychef » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:54 pm UTC

The almond sugar is 50/50 by weight almonds or almond flour and powdered sugar, run in a food processor until smooth-about 30 seconds. Chestnut paste can be found in places that sell European foods, as well as at Whole Foods. It’s a sweetened purée of chestnuts. Check the back endpapers of the book for the recipes. Also, the ingredients section, page 435-466.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby sardia » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:34 pm UTC

PAstrychef wrote:The almond sugar is 50/50 by weight almonds or almond flour and powdered sugar, run in a food processor until smooth-about 30 seconds. Chestnut paste can be found in places that sell European foods, as well as at Whole Foods. It’s a sweetened purée of chestnuts. Check the back endpapers of the book for the recipes. Also, the ingredients section, page 435-466.

Isn't using powdered sugar redundant in a food processor? My blender turns cheap regular sugar into powdered sugar. Or does the almonds interfere with that? Or is the food processor blades not meant to grind sugar down?

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Sungura » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:11 am UTC

Quercus wrote:
Sungura wrote:I can guess what “chestnut paste” is but no clue how to make that either. I dont even know where to buy chestnuts so i guess i have to wait for them to be in season here and grab them off the trails as I hike?


It's a specifically French thing - you can find it in larger UK supermarkets if you're over here any time in the near future (e.g. https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs ... puree-200g). It's made with European sweet chestnut (Castanea sativa), so unless it's a cultivated or invasive species where you are you're unlikely to find it around. I was under the impression that American chestnut (Castanea dentata) is more or less functionally extinct due to chestnut blight, so if that's what you've got around I'm kinda surprised and impressed.

Definitely don't use horse chestnut (Aesculus spp.), as those are poisonous without "extensive preparation" (I didn't look what that involved - but they're unlikely to taste anything like sweet chestnut anyway).

We do have lots of horse chestnuts and yes they basically have a toxin that has to be leached out before using.

We also have a lot if asian chestnuts. They are an invasive species.

And while the chestnut blight desimated the american chestnut, they do still exist and now that the blight long since swept through they are coming back. A friend of mine found a few on her property. Little patches survived, and you can get seedlings to plant!

PAstrychef wrote:The almond sugar is 50/50 by weight almonds or almond flour and powdered sugar, run in a food processor until smooth-about 30 seconds. Chestnut paste can be found in places that sell European foods, as well as at Whole Foods. It’s a sweetened purée of chestnuts. Check the back endpapers of the book for the recipes. Also, the ingredients section, page 435-466.
i dont have a food processer so i shall make do. Thanks!
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Quercus » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:27 pm UTC

Sungura wrote: We also have a lot if asian chestnuts. They are an invasive species.


Aha, I didn't know about Asian chestnuts, that's what I was missing

And while the chestnut blight desimated the american chestnut, they do still exist and now that the blight long since swept through they are coming back. A friend of mine found a few on her property. Little patches survived, and you can get seedlings to plant!


Didn't realize they were coming back. That's cool.

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby sardia » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:30 am UTC

Quercus wrote:
And while the chestnut blight desimated the american chestnut, they do still exist and now that the blight long since swept through they are coming back. A friend of mine found a few on her property. Little patches survived, and you can get seedlings to plant!


Didn't realize they were coming back. That's cool.

According to the wikipedia, any seedlings will get infected by nearby oak trees, soil, etc etc. in a few years. Most of the genetic diversity (aka possible resistance in it's gene pool) has been destroyed during cullings in the past. It's almost hopeless. Maybe with a bunch of science!, you could modify them to gain resistance.

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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Sungura » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:45 am UTC

They are. Both with traditional and newer methods.
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And areas that have a few still standing are replenishing. They survived for a reason.

I mean. They arent back like they used to be. But they are around.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby Zohar » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:01 pm UTC

Sungura wrote:Allll these recipes of adding dry ingredients together and mixing to add later....and they dont even have the common sense to put those first in the recipe. they'll be scattered all over the ingredient list like it was made in random order.
...I've *never* done that. Never mixed the dry beforehand.

Huh, most recipes I see do separate them and list the ingredients in order of use. Maybe you need to use other websites/books?

As for separating the ingredients - there's two main reasons, as far as I understand. The first is to ensure a uniform distribution of ingredients. The second is to not overknead the dough so as not to create extra gluten. If you're baking gluten-free, I don't think it matters as much since you can just keep mixing and I don't think it should affect the result a lot.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby poxic » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:13 pm UTC

If using baking powder/baking soda, it's also important to not over-mix the batter once the soda comes into contact with the liquid ingredients.If all the liquid and dry things are mixed well separately, then it's a minimum amount of stirring to get the two sufficiently combined before hurling into baking containers and speedily ovening.

Gotta bake those air bubbles into the batter before they pop. I recall answering someone's question about it once - they'd been mixing cookie dough for ten minutes before baking, then wondered why their cookies were flat hard rocks...
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby freezeblade » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:27 pm UTC

poxic wrote:If using baking powder/baking soda, it's also important to not over-mix the batter once the soda comes into contact with the liquid ingredients.If all the liquid and dry things are mixed well separately, then it's a minimum amount of stirring to get the two sufficiently combined before hurling into baking containers and speedily ovening.

Gotta bake those air bubbles into the batter before they pop. I recall answering someone's question about it once - they'd been mixing cookie dough for ten minutes before baking, then wondered why their cookies were flat hard rocks...


This advice works for most applications involving baking powder, but not all! (Also, using double acting baking powder in the applications which break the "quick mix" mold).

A great example is muffins, which I had always thought were like you mentioned, mix quick, get them in pans quick, bake them ASAP! I had always figured that not working quick enough was why my muffins never looked like the muffins at the local coffee shop. That is until I worked at a bakery. I learned there to mix in the (double acting!) baking powder with the dry ingredients, add to wet ingredients, and beat the entire base mix (with a paddle) until it turned bone-white (which developed the gluten! another revelation), then put in the fridge a few hours or overnight to stiffen. The mix is scooped cold, mounded a half inch above the lip of the molds, then baked!

Crazy weird things you learn are different between the home baking world and the "professional" baking world.
Last edited by freezeblade on Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:34 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby poxic » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:30 pm UTC

But if I do that, I won't have muffins in half an hour...
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Re: Food fleeting thoughts

Postby freezeblade » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:36 pm UTC

This is true, and a tradeoff you have to manage. For me it's not big deal, because most of the baking recipes I do have a long time-scale (I mainly do breads), so mixing the batter the night previous, then baking them in the morning works just fine for me. I do similar with most of my sourdough breads, where everything is spaced out over multiple days, with the final rise being in the fridge.
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