Controversial opinions about food

Apparently, people like to eat.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Belial » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:57 am UTC

Sandry wrote:
Wednesday wrote:Baking does not require precise measurement, but cooking absolutely does.

Wow. Okay, this one seems to me the most controversial yet. Now I totally want to watch you bake. ...I think that sounded weirder than I think I meant it to.


I would add that she mostly bakes bread, which, every time I've seen it done by just about anyone outside of a factory has been a "by feel" exercise. (One I am not particularly good at)

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Wednesday » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:01 am UTC

I used to get really into pie crusts, madeline cookies, popovers, scones and the like, but some of those are too much of a time investment or require a special pan, so it just isn't worth it in my kitchen. The place I'm moving to in September, however, has oodles of room for one-use baking supplies.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Belial » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:40 am UTC

My controversial opinion:

-As someone who eats almost like an obligate carnivore, I still think tofu is delicious if done right. Fried Tofu and Veggie Croquettes, for example. Or tofu scramble with capers.

-Paella is delicious, but its bastardized louisiana descendant, Jambalaya, is infinitely better.

-Cornbread, despite the cries of my southern brethren, is sometimes good sweet! It just ends up occupying a different culinary niche than savory cornbread. If you try to fill the place of one with the other, you're going to have a bad time.

-Grits, however, should never be sweet. They are a delivery mechanism for salt, pepper, cheese, and butter. And sometimes shrimp. There is nothing good about sweet grits that could not be better accomplished with oatmeal.

-There has literally never been a good use for American Cheese, or anything derived from it.

-(Apparently this is controversial?) Salt is great when used in the proper amounts, but it's perfectly valid to err on the side of too little and add the rest after cooking. Unless the salt is doing something chemically important in the prep process (like it does on steak).
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby ConMan » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:36 am UTC

Belial wrote:My controversial opinion:
-There has literally never been a good use for American Cheese, or anything derived from it.

Ablative shielding on spacecraft?

If you're looking only for uses involving eating the "cheese", I don't think your statement is actually that controversial.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Nath » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:12 am UTC

American cheese is not cheese, but that does not make it useless. No true cheese melts into the crannies of a hamburger (or the nooks, really) as well as American. It's also hard to get the right gooey texture in a grilled cheese if you use something like cheddar. I just think of it as a salty, fatty condiment.

I should have a go at making this.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Belial » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:27 am UTC

I don't see either of those as features. On the rare occasion that I eat fast food burgers, and someone fucks up my order and I return home to discover it's contaminated, the very nook-melting quality you speak of makes the offending material impossible to remove. The meat is ruined, fit only for consumption by the lowest of creatures: rats, crabs, investment bankers.

And grilled cheese is amazing with a good porous bread and cheddar jack or swiss or (my favorite) mozzarella and tomato sauce. Especially if the cheese in question is shredded and sprinkled evenly onto the bread.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Nath » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:40 am UTC

The saltiness can be useful if the burger is underseasoned, and the fattiness can be useful if the meat is too lean, but American cheesoid only really shines on properly made burgers; the point is for the gooeyness to provide a contrast with the crust (which fast food burgers typically don't have).

Grilled cheese tastes best with a nice sharp shredded cheese (I like cheddar), but has the best texture with American. That's why I'm tempted to make the American-textured real cheese stuff with the sodium citrate and whatnot. I also like a bit of shredded cheese on the outside, for some burnt cheese crust.

Damn, I'm out of cheese.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Belial » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:50 am UTC

Nath wrote:the point is for the gooeyness to provide a contrast with the crust (which fast food burgers typically don't have).


What I find does this well and doesn't taste like absolute ass is a fried egg.

I also like a bit of shredded cheese on the outside, for some burnt cheese crust.


Parmesan works crazy well for this.

Also, apropos of nothing in particular, further controversial opinion:

-Legumes, while they often taste great, have an absolutely abominable texture. Seriously, beans and chickpeas? The worst. They only shine when they've been mashed so thoroughly that not a trace of their consistency remains (Refried beans, Hummus).

Lentils get a slight exception to this rule, but I have to be in the right mood. Really sweet baked beans, too, but only barely.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby JudeMorrigan » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:34 pm UTC

An opinion that I'm pretty sure that most of you will consider objectively wrong: while they sometimes have their uses as ingredients in cooking, both beer and coffee are terrible to the point of undrinkability as beverages. On a not unrelated note, propylthiouracil-impregnated paper is one of the most vile things on the planet.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:06 pm UTC

Well, beer, obviously, is just unmitigatingly nasty. But coffee? Come on. Now you're just talking crazy.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby PAstrychef » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:59 pm UTC

Nope, coffee is a totally cheat. Smells amazing, tastes horrible.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Sandry » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:25 pm UTC

Belial wrote:the lowest of creatures: rats, crabs, investment bankers.

You bastard! Don't insult crabs that way!

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Роберт » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:08 pm UTC

Wednesday wrote:Peanut butter and jam sandwiches must be made on white or potato bread, heavy on the (creamy) peanut butter, easier on the (blackberry) jam.

Yuck! PB&J is pretty much inedible goo when you use white bread.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:11 pm UTC

Also, it should have about a quarter inch of either blackberry jam or Foch grape jam. Preferably with a nice, structural-quality rye.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Nath » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:25 pm UTC

PAstrychef wrote:Nope, coffee is a totally cheat. Smells amazing, tastes horrible.

In my experience, people who don't like coffee just don't like coffee. But people who like the smell but not the taste sometimes come around when they try fresh, correctly brewed coffee instead of the armpit-brew that most of America drinks. It is supposed to taste like it smells.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby TheAmazingRando » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:26 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:Yuck! PB&J is pretty much inedible goo when you use white bread.
Yes, but it's inedible goo with unshakable childhood nostalgia.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby JudeMorrigan » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:34 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
Wednesday wrote:Peanut butter and jam sandwiches must be made on white or potato bread, heavy on the (creamy) peanut butter, easier on the (blackberry) jam.

Yuck! PB&J is pretty much inedible goo when you use white bread.

That depends on exactly what one means by "white bread", doesn't it? I mean, if you're talking Wonder Bread, sure. Homemade white bread is a different story though. (I still eat it on a honey wheat bread though. With grape jelly. The way God intended.)

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Belial » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:45 pm UTC

Beer is such a wide variety of only-loosely-related beverages...

Also, on the subject of coffee, I would suggest looking at other flavor extraction methods. A lot of the variance in flavor of coffee is down to what you extract from the bean and what you leave in.

For example, I still really want to try Black Blood of the Earth, which is cold vacuum extracted, and was basically designed to not need sugar or cream due to absence of bitterness (accidental side effect: 10 times the caffeine content).
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:50 pm UTC

Belial wrote:"accidental" side effect: 10 times the caffeine content).
FTFY

EDIT: Is it watered down a bit? 10x the caffeine of a single cup of coffee actually sounds borderline dangerous if consumed as normal coffee?
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby poxic » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:52 pm UTC

In my experience, coffee and beer can be loved for their taste as proxy for their pleasant physical effects. I am picky about my coffee, preferring African or Indonesian coffees to Central or South American -- but if it's decaf, regardless how delicious, I mostly can't be arsed to drink it.

Same thing with beer. If I'm not going to drink alcohol, then I won't drink near-beer, even if it is the best near-beer on earth. (And there are some brands that are highly recommended by people weaning themselves off the hard stuff -- O'Douls is apparently quite good.)
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Belial » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:58 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Belial wrote:"accidental" side effect: 10 times the caffeine content).
FTFY

EDIT: Is it watered down a bit? 10x the caffeine of a single cup of coffee actually sounds borderline dangerous if consumed as normal coffee?


It actually was quite accidental. Dude just didn't like bitter flavors, has diabetes, hates artificial sweeteners, and was looking for a way to reconcile those facts while still drinking coffee.

And yeah, he recommends either drinking it in shot-glass proportions, or mixing it with about 3 parts water. Or vodka.

Also also, I was off: it's apparently 40x the caffeine.

Poxic: interesting. I rarely (once every couple months or so) drink to the point that I feel any effects, but I still like beer with dinner.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby poxic » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:24 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Poxic: interesting. I rarely (once every couple months or so) drink to the point that I feel any effects, but I still like beer with dinner.

Physical effects aren't limited to intoxication -- a small amount can still dilate blood vessels and decrease anxiety. Our bodies are pretty good at identifying the stuff that does nice things for us.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby bigglesworth » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 pm UTC

It's also a slight local anaesthetic for your mouth, I think? I certainly found a mouthful of beer super helpful when I got mouth ulcers.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby PictureSarah » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:44 pm UTC

Belial wrote:-Grits, however, should never be sweet. They are a delivery mechanism for salt, pepper, cheese, and butter. And sometimes shrimp. There is nothing good about sweet grits that could not be better accomplished with oatmeal.


I still don't really get what grits are. Are grits polenta?
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:53 pm UTC

Thanks for the link on that Belial (I thought the name you provided was tongue in cheek), that stuff actually sounds excellent and I'm going to try some.

I'm fairly sensitive to caffeine, but dislike the bitterness of most coffee, and what's available on campus is fucking dreadful (Einsteins).

I too have no idea on the grits v polenta.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby natraj » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:55 pm UTC

polenta is cornmeal, grits are ground hominy; the corn has been differently treated for grits. they're similar, though, except that grits are better.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Nath » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:56 pm UTC

poxic wrote:I am picky about my coffee, preferring African or Indonesian coffees to Central or South American

Curious set of preferences. I think of Central and South American coffees (except Brazils) as sort of in between bright, fruity African coffees and heavy, low-acid Indonesian coffees, but generally closer to the former than the latter (being usually wet-processed like most of the Ethiopian and Kenyan coffees we find in North America). The dry processing common in Brazil makes their coffees more similar to Indonesian coffees; sometimes a little dull to drink on their own, but nice in a blend with a bright Central American or African coffee.

Is there something about Central American coffees that puts you off?
Last edited by Nath on Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:38 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby poxic » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:23 pm UTC

Nath wrote:Is there something about Central American coffees that puts you off?

It's something in the tartness of the beans, I think. I've heard eastern vs. western hemisphere coffees compared as "mud vs. gasoline". Which is terribly inaccurate, but we have to start somewhere when describing things that are hard to describe.

My recollection of Central American coffees is that they can be quite light-tasting, but a bit sour. I have similar memories of South American coffees, though they're somewhat heavier-tasting. I'm not a fan of the tartness.

African coffees are earthier, more bitter than tart maybe? (I'm having a hard time putting words on things.) I haven't had Indonesian for a while but I recall a more syrupy quality. It's almost like Indonesian soil is made of molasses, African soil is made of cocoa, and Central/South American soil is made of fruit. I tend to prefer the cocoa or molasses to the fruit. If any of that makes any sense at all. :|
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Nath » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:39 pm UTC

Many Central American washed coffees are quite tart, but that's also true of most African washed coffees. Maybe you've been drinking dry-processed African coffees? They aren't as common now, though that's the traditional way of doing things.

I can definitely see Indonesian coffees described as syrupy, due to the heavy body and sweetness. You might enjoy dry-processed Brazilian coffee for the same reason (low on acid, heavy on body and sweetness); it's quite different from the washed Central and South American coffees you usually find.

You might also like cold-brewed coffees, which gets rid of the lot of the acidity (but also loses some of the good stuff).

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Belial » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:16 pm UTC

natraj wrote:they're similar, though, except that grits are better.


True that.

Izawwlgood wrote:Thanks for the link on that Belial (I thought the name you provided was tongue in cheek), that stuff actually sounds excellent and I'm going to try some.


Let me know how it goes! The stuff intrigues the hell out of me, but "times that I am consciously remembering that it exists" rarely coincide with "times I can spare 60 bucks for random beverage experimentation"
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby sparkyb » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:25 pm UTC

Nath wrote:In my experience, people who don't like coffee just don't like coffee. But people who like the smell but not the taste sometimes come around when they try fresh, correctly brewed coffee instead of the armpit-brew that most of America drinks. It is supposed to taste like it smells.


I'm pretty sure I'm the kind of person who doesn't like coffee, however I can appreciate it's smell sometimes. So perhaps I would come around if I tried the right coffee, or even if I gave normal coffee another chance (I've changed my mind on a lot of foods in the last few years). However, seeing how so many people around me are dependent on it, coffee is one food I'm glad I don't like and have no desire to try and change that.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:03 pm UTC

Nath wrote:
PAstrychef wrote:Nope, coffee is a totally cheat. Smells amazing, tastes horrible.

In my experience, people who don't like coffee just don't like coffee. But people who like the smell but not the taste sometimes come around when they try fresh, correctly brewed coffee instead of the armpit-brew that most of America drinks. It is supposed to taste like it smells.

I find it helps a lot to cold-brew coffee. Usually the bitterness doesn't come through, while the taste you want actually does. Also, there is more caffeine extracted, but probably not that much more.

Some store-bought coffee actually tastes worse cold-brewed. Gevalia chocolate mocha coffee tastes like I cold-brewed it with water from a septic tank; it's okay hot, though.

I need to get some real beans and grind them myself; I discovered cold-brewing long after I ground my last bean of actually-good coffee.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby teenidle » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:22 am UTC

I love the idea of coffee. But the only way I ever drink it is with lots of cream and sugar, so.

Also, eggs are not something I'd want to start my day with. Ever.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby pkcommando » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:34 pm UTC

Regarding mayo and french fries:

At or marginally below room temp mayo - Yes!

Refrigerator-cold mayo - No. Just... no.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Puppyclaws » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:35 pm UTC

Oh my God mayonnaise. What a disgusting thing that is. Today I received a sandwich that may as well have been a mayo-dipped mayo-sandwich with extra mayo, and cold hard cheese (that mayo always somehow makes worse), hold the everything else. Which seems to happen a lot when I order sandwiches. I think of mayo as almost inedible. OK when mixed with certain things and present in minute quantities (and I only came around to that a few years ago). Just keep that disgusting goopy stuff away from... ugh I can't even think about it now, so so gross.

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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby poxic » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:56 pm UTC

MAYONNAISE (warning: Undercover Brother clip)

I can actually appreciate a small smear of the stuff, mostly as a sandwich lubricant. If there are better options (mustard or pesto), I won't bother.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby AngrySquirrel » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:02 am UTC

May the gods save me from the atrocity that is pesto. I mean, sure, I can deal with a little of it, but why does it have to be on everything bread-related ever everywhere?

Also, Twiglets. I want Twiglets.
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Re: Controversial opinions about food

Postby Belial » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:20 pm UTC

Pesto is civilization.

Alternately: I will eat your pesto.
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