Annoying words, and Words You Hate

For the discussion of language mechanics, grammar, vocabulary, trends, and other such linguistic topics, in english and other languages.

Moderators: gmalivuk, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26824
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Annoying word dem, an' word dem You Hate

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:40 pm UTC

Yes, but slinches is talking about words where <thr> is preceded in close proximity (i.e. not immediately) by a voiceless stop.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
slinches
Slinches get Stinches
Posts: 1036
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:23 am UTC

Re: Annoying word dem, an' word dem You Hate

Postby slinches » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:45 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:de regular expression search string [p,c,k,t][a,e,i,o,u,y,w,r]thr wid de Scrabble word list from here yields only de following results:
Line 33776: CITHREN
Line 58704: CITHRENS (dis an' de above nuh count because I assume de <c> has an /s/ sound)
Line 95991: HYPETHRAL
Line 151142: WHITETHROAT (dis an' it plural probably nuh count because de <e> be silent)
Line 151799: ANTITHROMBIN
Line 162638: WHITETHROATS
Line 163055: ANTITHROMBINS
Line 174790: STREPTOTHRICIN
Line 178283: STREPTOTHRICINS

An optional <l> after de initial consonant only adds de previously mentioned "clathrate" an' "clathrates".

So it does indeed seem a be a pretty rare combination. (Me goin leave it to someone else to run a similar search pon a bigger dictionary dat includes such non-Scrabble-legal ting dem as proper nouns an' word dem longer dan 15 letters.)

Neat search tool, I hadn't seen that before. And all of those words are similar to what I intended, but don't trip up my tongue quite as badly as clathrate, so the "cl" is likely contributing.


ETA: quote gmalivuk's post on the previous page

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26824
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Annoying word dem, an' word dem You Hate

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:55 pm UTC

The /kl/ on its own can be a bit difficult to pronounce, so I can see why that followed by the also-a-bit-difficult /θr/ would be doubly tricky.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3652
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: Annoying word dem, an' word dem You Hate

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:41 pm UTC

I think I'm confused. I'll check back on this thread once the madness has ended.

oh gods, what if it never ends D:

:P
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26824
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Annoying word dem, an' word dem You Hate

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:49 pm UTC

I'm not sure what effect wordfilters had on your misunderstanding in this thread.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Klear
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:43 am UTC
Location: Prague

Re: Annoying word dem, an' word dem You Hate

Postby Klear » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:51 pm UTC

I can't believe you're continuing the conversation under the circustances...

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3652
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: Annoying word dem, an' word dem You Hate

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:19 am UTC

I think it's just that I'm mis-parsing something and the filters make it a bit trickier to work out what that is, not that the filters themselves are making me misunderstand.
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

User avatar
Lazar
Landed Gentry
Posts: 2151
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:49 pm UTC
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Lazar » Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:01 am UTC

Two usages that annoy me: "downfall" to mean "downside", and "refute" to mean "dispute". To my mind, if X is the downfall of Y, that means that X ruins or defeats Y, not merely that X detracts from Y. And if A refutes B's argument, that means that A disproves the argument, not merely that they argue against it.
Exit the vampires' castle.

User avatar
Monika
Welcoming Aarvark
Posts: 3673
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:03 am UTC
Location: Germany, near Heidelberg
Contact:

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Monika » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:22 pm UTC

Hmm, not sure about refute. An English-other language dictionary is not the best resource, but according to http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.html# ... wSingle=on only 3 of the 4 translations mean to disprove, the fourth just means to deny, even without proof. Also from how native English speakers use it I always assumed it only means deny, without proof, with some proof which may or may not be considered sufficient, or with sufficient proof.
#xkcd-q on irc.foonetic.net - the LGBTIQQA support channel
Please donate to help these people

User avatar
Lazar
Landed Gentry
Posts: 2151
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:49 pm UTC
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Lazar » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:36 pm UTC

The "deny" meaning is newer, and not part of the meaning of the word as I acquired it. From Oxford:

The core meaning of refute is ‘prove a statement or theory to be wrong’, as in 'attempts to refute Einstein’s theory'. In the second half of the 20th century a more general sense developed, meaning simply ‘deny’, as in 'I absolutely refute the charges made against me'. Traditionalists object to this newer use as an unacceptable degradation of the language, but it is widely encountered.

I wouldn't characterize myself as a traditionalist, but the newer usage rubs me the wrong way.
Exit the vampires' castle.

User avatar
Quercus
Posts: 1810
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:22 pm UTC
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Quercus » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:50 pm UTC

I don't like the new usage either. I'm mostly all for the evolution of language, but not when usage changes smudge the meaning of words and are thus a barrier to precise expression.

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26824
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:47 pm UTC

Accepting that languages evolve doesn't mean you have to be aesthetically pleased with each individual change.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Echo244
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 9:49 am UTC
Location: Ping! Ping! Ping! Ping!

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Echo244 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:40 am UTC

Aye, especially when the usage of "refute" to mean "strongly deny without any evidence or usually even an argument" robs you of a single word you can use to mean "refute (original meaning)".

My annoying words for today, and indeed much of the summer, are "muggy" and "close", used by weather presenters to mean "humid, in warm conditions", when they've already said "warm" or "hot". It smells to me like some sort of godawful "Let's use words that relate more to how people feel rather than accurately describe the conditions!" thing.
Unstoppable force of nature. That means she/her/hers.
Has committed an act of treason.

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26824
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:56 pm UTC

Is it a problem when weather forecasters predict how the weather is going to feel?
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Eebster the Great
Posts: 3485
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Eebster the Great » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:52 pm UTC

How does "close" mean "warm"?

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26824
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:59 pm UTC

How does "mean" mean "unkind"?
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Monika
Welcoming Aarvark
Posts: 3673
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:03 am UTC
Location: Germany, near Heidelberg
Contact:

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Monika » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:04 pm UTC

That comes from German "gemein" or a common ancestor word. How that came to mean unkind is still a mystery, as gemein literally means shared.
#xkcd-q on irc.foonetic.net - the LGBTIQQA support channel
Please donate to help these people

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26824
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:30 pm UTC

Yeah actually "mean" having the meanings it does is far more complex an etymological story than the connection between "close" and "warm".
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
chridd
Has a vermicelli title
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:07 am UTC
Location: ...Earth, I guess?
Contact:

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby chridd » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:49 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:How does "close" mean "warm"?
Wiktionary says that it has that meaning in Ireland, England, and Scotland (definition 6). (I (US) wasn't familiar with that meaning.)
~ chri d. d. /tʃɹɪ.di.di/ (Phonotactics, schmphonotactics) · she · Forum game scores
mittfh wrote:I wish this post was very quotable...

User avatar
Eebster the Great
Posts: 3485
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Eebster the Great » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:24 pm UTC

OK. It isn't something I've ever seen before.

lorb
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:34 am UTC
Location: Austria

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby lorb » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:25 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:Aye, especially when the usage of "refute" to mean "strongly deny without any evidence or usually even an argument" robs you of a single word you can use to mean "refute (original meaning)".


But you still have "disprove" and/or "rebut"?
Please be gracious in judging my english. (I am not a native speaker/writer.)
http://decodedarfur.org/

User avatar
Eebster the Great
Posts: 3485
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Eebster the Great » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:27 pm UTC

There's also the little-used "confute."

User avatar
Lazar
Landed Gentry
Posts: 2151
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:49 pm UTC
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Lazar » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:25 pm UTC

For me, "rebut" is a bit weaker than "refute". I'd say that in my understanding,

refute = to disprove an opposing claim
rebut = to present evidence or argumentation against an opposing claim
dispute = to challenge an oppposing claim
Exit the vampires' castle.

Derek
Posts: 2181
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:15 am UTC

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Derek » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:56 am UTC

I have never heard "close" used to mean "warm". I was confused as to why Echo included that in his post.

Eebster the Great wrote:There's also the little-used "confute."

If doesn't mean to refute, while simultaneously confusing your opponent, then it should.

User avatar
measure
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:31 pm UTC
Location: Time-traveling kayak

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby measure » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:25 pm UTC

Not exactly annoying words, but annoying usage, here are a couple of pet peeves of mine:

1. Using "different... than" instead of "different... from" (it's especially obvious which way it should be if you replace "different" with "differing")
2. Using "less" rather than "fewer" when referring to countables

I'm not sure why these two in particular bother me so much, but I hear them used quite often, and they annoy me to no end.

User avatar
Lazar
Landed Gentry
Posts: 2151
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:49 pm UTC
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Lazar » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:35 pm UTC

There's an interesting trans-Atlantic difference with "different". On both sides "different from" is the traditionally correct form, but these days Americans tend to use "different than", while Brits tend to use "different to".
Exit the vampires' castle.

User avatar
Grop
Posts: 1998
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:36 am UTC
Location: France

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Grop » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:46 pm UTC

This Frenchman thinks this different ... than construction is very weird; I thought people writing that were wrong or something.

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26824
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:48 pm UTC

measure wrote:1. Using "different... than" instead of "different... from" (it's especially obvious which way it should be if you replace "different" with "differing")
Do you mean in general or just in cases where the correct form is "from"?

Because I can't imagine you actually say things like, "This food is different from I'm used to."

2. Using "less" rather than "fewer" when referring to countables
Again, it's more complicated than that. Even strict prescriptivists rarely say, "It costs fewer than 100 dollars," or, "I live fewer than 30 miles from here."
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Eebster the Great
Posts: 3485
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Eebster the Great » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:18 am UTC

Well you're right, it's slightly more complicated. Money and distance are mass nouns, and when you express mass nouns with units, you still often don't use the words you would use with count nouns. (I'm not sure what the exact rule is.)

The case of "different than" doesn't really follow that, though. In your example, rather than saying "This food is different than I am used to," you could alternatively say "This food is different from what I am used to." You are essentially giving "than" the dual role of conjunction (or alternatively preposition, depending on your point of view) and pronoun here, which is fine (that's how it works with comparisons already), but isn't necessary.

I use "different . . . than" frequently and have no problem with it. It has a long history of usage, is very easy to parse and interpret, is not ambiguous, and rarely causes people to bat an eye. But I can see how it might annoy the syntactically-minded. It's certainly no worse than "different . . . to," though, which is apparently rather popular in the UK.

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3652
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:44 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
measure wrote:1. Using "different... than" instead of "different... from" (it's especially obvious which way it should be if you replace "different" with "differing")
Do you mean in general or just in cases where the correct form is "from"?

Because I can't imagine you actually say things like, "This food is different from I'm used to."


That sentence sounds ungrammatical to me (an RP BrE speaker) but then it also is if you replace from with than. Either way it seems like it needs a what or a how in which case both sound grammatical but the from option "this food is different from how I'm used to it" seems most grammatical.

Edit: fixed my post
Last edited by eSOANEM on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:10 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

User avatar
Monika
Welcoming Aarvark
Posts: 3673
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:03 am UTC
Location: Germany, near Heidelberg
Contact:

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Monika » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:33 am UTC

This is the first time I hear that something could be wrong with saying "different than". It never occurred to me. Maybe because I lived in the US or maybe because in German "anders als" (different than) is the only possible form. (But when using the verb, it's also "differs from" - "unterscheidet sich von".)

I have often heard people complain about using less vs. fewer. I usually stab people who bring this up.
#xkcd-q on irc.foonetic.net - the LGBTIQQA support channel
Please donate to help these people

User avatar
measure
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:31 pm UTC
Location: Time-traveling kayak

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby measure » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:52 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
measure wrote:1. Using "different... than" instead of "different... from" (it's especially obvious which way it should be if you replace "different" with "differing")
Do you mean in general or just in cases where the correct form is "from"?

Because I can't imagine you actually say things like, "This food is different from I'm used to."


That sentence sounds ungrammatical to me (an RP BrE speaker) but then it also is if you replace from with than. Either way it seems like it needs a what or a how in which case both sound grammatical but the from option "this food is different than how I'm used to it" seems most grammatical.

I would say "This is different from what I'm used to."

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3652
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:13 pm UTC

Ah, the was meant to say "this food is different from how I'm used to it"; it's fixed now. I'd certainly agree that your sentence is grammatical and more like what I'd use in speech, I just thought the longer one was more technically grammatical (not in a prescriptivist sense you understand).
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

sje46
Posts: 4730
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 4:41 am UTC
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby sje46 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:06 am UTC

Quite the, as in "He is quite the cook." For no other reason than it just annoys the hell out of me. It just sounds so pretentious.

Hater/hating on,

Creeper/creeping on

Hit me up.

"splaining" as a suffix
General_Norris: Taking pride in your nation is taking pride in the division of humanity.
Pirate.Bondage: Let's get married. Right now.

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3652
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby eSOANEM » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:57 am UTC

sje46 wrote:"splaining" as a suffix


That's not a suffix, it's just often used in portmanteaus (mansplaining, whitesplaining, cissplaining etc).
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

User avatar
Eebster the Great
Posts: 3485
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Eebster the Great » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:28 am UTC

I agree though, those words are eye- and earsores. Nothing about their meaning, I just can't stand how they sound.

Aiwendil
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:53 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Aiwendil » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:39 pm UTC

Hater/hating on,


I, too, find this usage rather annoying. I guess that makes me a 'hater'.

That's not a suffix, it's just often used in portmanteaus (mansplaining, whitesplaining, cissplaining etc).


Speaking of which, I dislike most portmanteaus. They're sometimes OK when the words being combined have an overlapping element, so that at least the portmanteau seems justified by some tiny piece of cleverness. But when it's just chopping off parts of words and mashing them together, it just seems pointless and puerile.

For the record, 'different to' always sounds wrong to me and bothers me slightly; 'different than' sounds acceptable but gives me the slightest feeling of unease if I think about it; 'different from' is my standard usage.

User avatar
The Scyphozoa
Posts: 2871
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:33 pm UTC
Location: Sector 5

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby The Scyphozoa » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:00 pm UTC

Aiwendil wrote:For the record, 'different to' always sounds wrong to me and bothers me slightly; 'different than' sounds acceptable but gives me the slightest feeling of unease if I think about it; 'different from' is my standard usage.

I think that's a country thing. "From" is considered the "most" correct I believe, but "than" is normal in the US and "to" is normal in...New Zealand, at least. Don't know about other English-speaking countries.
Image
3rdtry wrote:If there ever is another World War, I hope they at least have the decency to call it "World War 2: Episode One"

doogly wrote:murder is a subset of being mean

User avatar
mathmannix
Posts: 1453
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:12 pm UTC
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby mathmannix » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:18 pm UTC

Aiwendil wrote:But when it's just chopping off parts of words and mashing them together, it just seems pointless and puerile.

Pointile!
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

User avatar
Copper Bezel
Posts: 2426
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:35 am UTC
Location: Web exclusive!

Re: Annoying words, and Words You Hate

Postby Copper Bezel » Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:21 pm UTC

Ha!

I hear "different than", but it doesn't work in my head. It actually never occurred to me to compare to the usage in "different than I'm used to." I'd think a thing could differ from something, and "differ to" sounds like an odd but intelligible flourish (as "different with" would, as well), while it doesn't seem intelligible to me to say that something differs than something. I'm USian.
So much depends upon a red wheel barrow (>= XXII) but it is not going to be installed.

she / her / her


Return to “Language/Linguistics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests