Hip-Hop and Rap

It's only cool if no one's heard of it.

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aleflamedyud
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Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby aleflamedyud » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:55 pm UTC

Oh, and I want to clear something up. High-school dance music is not hip-hop. Ever. It usually isn't even real gangster rap. Tupac Shakur and Notorious B.I.G. are hip-hop. N.W.A (along with most stuff Dr. Drey does) is gangster rap. "Solja Boy up in them hos" is a male masturbation fantasy set to a synth drum beat.

And I'm a Jewish computer-science major.

That's just my opinion of what passes for popular hip-hop nowadays. This is formed after basically growing up listening to hip-hop.

When I was young and got bussed into school, the drivers were all from the black ghetto town a town over from me, so they always played "Hot 97" (New York City's "Blazing Hip-Hop and R&B") on the radios. Nobody had iPods in those days, so I actually got exposed to a wide variety of hip-hop and rap.

Back then I thought most of it was total crap, but I learned to appreciate a few groups. I especially liked songs that included instrumental riffs and real melodies. Today hip-hop's my favorite musical genre, even though nobody has heard of my favorite group because their only American concerts were/are on Christmas Eve (Brooklyn) or this month (West Coast).

Point is, I'd like to hear what exposure and tastes the rest of the XKCD boards have had to what is actually a solid, well-established genre of music that most people still, for some reason, consider the sole domain of impoverished American blacks and hormone-charged high-school kids. Hell, I'm thinking of how a "Hip-Hop Hero" video game might be made.

Reminder: Hip-hop, as defined on Wikipedia, mainly consists of 4 skills: DJing, rapping, break-dancing, and beat-boxing. If you perform using those techniques, you're technically making hip-hop.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby TheAmazingRando » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:49 pm UTC

I like NWA, Wu-Tang Clan (and the individual members), Nas, Lords of the Underground, and Public Enemy.

And I'm a white computer-science major who normally listens to indie, black metal, and experimental music.

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby Dream » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:57 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:Reminder: Hip-hop, as defined on Wikipedia, mainly consists of 4 skills: DJing, rapping, break-dancing, and beat-boxing. If you perform using those techniques, you're technically making hip-hop.

Cut breakdancing from tht list, and add sampling. Even then, since you can do all four things together and not be making hip-hop, I don't agree with the definition.

Also, it's been a long time since hip-hop has been exclusively american or impoverished or black. Try some Asian Dub Foundation, of whom I'm a big fan. It's British-Asian in terms of musical style and lyrical content, highly political and generally kick ass in every way. But it is definitley hip-hop, along with being many other things to boot.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby damienthebloody » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:16 am UTC

I really, really, really like public enemy. and NWA. And i'm the most metal thing ever. aside from that, i'm pretty underexposed, but i'm exploring.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby aleflamedyud » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:35 am UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:I like NWA, Wu-Tang Clan (and the individual members), Nas, Lords of the Underground, and Public Enemy.

And I'm a white computer-science major who normally listens to indie, black metal, and experimental music.

Note to self: download Nas's "One Mic". God that was a great song.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby 1337geek » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:44 am UTC

Ugh. The only good hip-hop/rap songs are the ones Weird Al did, but it's hard to listen to even those sometimes because usually I try to appreciate the original songs that made the parodies possible.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby dubsola » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:08 pm UTC

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=12166

The search function is your friend.

EDIT: Oh, here's some content:

MF Doom (best MC that ever lived, also goes by Victor Vaughn and King Geedorah), Madlib, Madvillian, Dangerdoom (MF Doom and Dangermouse), J Dilla (RIP), Jaylib, Mos Def, Common, Kanye West, Talib Kwali, Dead Prez, Percee P, Wildchild, Ghostface Killah, A Tribe Called Quest, Diverse.

Instrumental hiphop: Prefuse73, Ammoncontact, Dabrye, Lukid, Elliot Lipp, Marc Mac, Rednose Distrikt, DJ Spinna, Caural.

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby microwaved » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:51 pm UTC

I like Del tha funkee homosapien, aka deltron Zero, and the group he is a part of, Hieroglyphics. Thats really the only hip-hop I listen to with any regularity though.

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby TheAmazingRando » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:05 pm UTC

1337geek wrote:Ugh. The only good hip-hop/rap songs are the ones Weird Al did, but it's hard to listen to even those sometimes because usually I try to appreciate the original songs that made the parodies possible.


What hip-hop/rap have you listened to?

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby ok? » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:18 pm UTC

brotha lynch hung!

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby socynicalsohip » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:42 pm UTC

1337geek wrote:Ugh. The only good hip-hop/rap songs are the ones Weird Al did, but it's hard to listen to even those sometimes because usually I try to appreciate the original songs that made the parodies possible.


Sigh, this attitude upsets me. This is the same ignorant behaviour which prompts the use of the catch all term "Goth shit" you hear banded around. Mature a little please.

I'm a huge music fan and listen to about anything I can lay my grubby litle mits on and I feel it's sad that the hip-hop which gets the most exposure is the 'Fiddy in the Crunk' shit.

I would not say I'm into the scene to large extent but US hip-hop wise I'm big into Jurrasic 5, Prince Paul, DJ Dangermouse, Ugly Duckling and People Under the Stairs. If you look at those groups and their individual artists collabarations you will soon amass a large amount of 'decent' US hiphop.

But the good old US of A is by no means the be all and end all. Canadian rappers Abdominal and DSisive are pretty good. And UK hip hop [my personal favourite] DJ Format, DJ Yoda, The Aspects, Sway and Life to name but a few.

Interestingly I would disagree with another Hip hop advocate by saying that Asian Dub Foundation are a little more drum and bass than hip hop in my opinion. But saying that they do a fair bit of genre bending so it's up to interpretation.


EDIT
See this Post for some of my examples...
http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3651&p=524281#p524281
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:53 pm UTC

Um, any of you like poetry? I imagine yes. Check out Aesop Rock, Sage Francis, or Atmosphere's older stuff.

Theres a huge difference between hip-hop and rap.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby SomeoneElse » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:42 pm UTC

Mm, I used to listen to hip-hop a lot. I can't stand gangsta rap like NWA, Public Enemy, Snoop Dogg, etc, but there's a lot of hip-hop that I do like. Most mainstream hip-hop is of this gangsta crap type (if that counts as hip-hop), but some more popular stuff is actually pretty good, like the Beastie Boys, N.E.R.D, The Streets and Gorillaz.

Apart from that though, I like all sorts of hip-hop like Deltron 3030, DJ Format, Buck 65, El-P, Edan, Digable Planets, People Under The Stairs, cLOUDDEAD, and anything else that bothers to come into my head.

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby aleflamedyud » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:55 pm UTC

Just noting, I never said that American hip-hop is the only scene. It's just the first thing most people think of when they think of "hip-hop". To quote a song by my own favorite MC:

Subliminal and the Shadow featuring Sneaka wrote:HIP-HOP...
LABEL: Hip-hop ready to rock, straight to the top.
HIP-HOP
Drop it non-stop. It's a local flow on a global track.
HIP-HOP
Watch it come back.
REPEAT ONCE FROM LABEL.


Err... LABEL and REPEAT ONCE FROM LABEL are instructions rather than lyrics. My codin' homiez should understand.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:25 pm UTC

Let's see, I like:

Del (solo and group efforts)
Kool Keith
The Beastie Boys
Run DMC
Public Enemy
Jay-Z
Mos Def
Jurassic 5 (although they may be raptors)
Dilated Peoples
Ozomotli (maybe not hip-hop)
The Roots
The admitedly little bit of Wu Tang I've listened to

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby MuseSik » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:54 pm UTC

I was never into any rap or hip hop until I discovered underground.

Atmosphere is the best jumping off point, and is where I started. Slug, their MC is one of the best lyricist ever. Most will say stick with their old stuff, but there is nothing wrong with the new, it's just different. Slug does a lot of work with other artists, and through that, I found Sage Francis, Living Legends, Eyedea, and countless others. Just about anyone notable has been mentioned above, with the exception of P.O.S. I've gotten so many people into underground hip hop just by having them listen to this guy. He has an unique sound with a lot of punk undertones.

Anyone in the California area should check out the Paid Dues festival (featuring Sage, Jedi Mind Tricks, Dilated Peoples, Visonaries) . The last one was amazing, seeing Felt in concert was one of the best shows I've ever seen.

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:20 pm UTC

I've gotten a lot of people into hip hop by telling them to check out Deltron 3030.

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby Mathmagic » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:58 pm UTC

Some of the hip-hop/rap I listen to:

k-os (getting more into the alternative music scene, but he's got the hip-hop roots for sure if you listen to his first 2 albums)
Jurassic 5
The Roots
Aesop Rock
Kanye West (Some of his stuff I like... I'm a bit picky with him)
Run DMC (Just a little novelty of mine :) )
Rage Against The Machine (Yes, they're rock, but they've got a solid rap influence)

I'm trying to get some of my friends to point out some other stuff... I've got one friend that has a treasure trove of rap/hip-hop... I just have to convince him to let me steal it all. :razz:

As far as the image hip-hop/rap receives: It is unfortunate that rap and hip-hop is lumped with the "50 Cent"s of the world.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby 1337geek » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:08 pm UTC

socynicalsohip wrote:
1337geek wrote:Ugh. The only good hip-hop/rap songs are the ones Weird Al did, but it's hard to listen to even those sometimes because usually I try to appreciate the original songs that made the parodies possible.


Sigh, this attitude upsets me. This is the same ignorant behaviour which prompts the use of the catch all term "Goth shit" you hear banded around. Mature a little please.

Sigh, dismissive and condescending responses like this upset me. That's why I usually don't get into discussions like this. But since I'm already in it, I might as well continue. I don't like to listen to hip-hop or rap because they sound fake and repetitive. I'd much rather listen to something with real instruments, talented musicians, great lyrics, etc. There aren't too many hip-hop artists (and even fewer rap artists) that can actually write a great song. In other words, I'll stick to rock, metal, classical, R&B, soul, jazz, and (some) country, which means I'll be forever stuck in the past, except for the few artists that are releasing good music in the present.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby TheAmazingRando » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:10 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Theres a huge difference between hip-hop and rap.

Only in the same sense that there's a huge difference between death metal and growling.
In other words, saying there's a huge difference between the two is meaningless, because they aren't in the same category.

There is hip-hop without rap. There is rap outside of hip-hop. The same can be said of death metal and growling. But the two are still very heavily connected.

1337geek, what artists are you basing your opinions of rap on?

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby MuseSik » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:33 pm UTC

1337geek wrote:I'd much rather listen to something with real instruments, talented musicians, great lyrics, etc.


You really should give some of the above mentioned artists a chance.

As far as 'real instruments' go, that argument is a joke, unless you meant 'people who play instruments'. I'd imagine anything that can be used to create sound would qualify as an instrument.

Talented Musicians? The producer of a good rapper probably understand music better than your average musician. Mr Dibbs, DJ Shadow, and Danger Mouse, have amazing instrumentals that only pure talent could produce.

Great Lyrics? Sage Francis. Immortal Technique. Slug. Eyedea. Just pick a random lyric from any of them. You will you find amazing lyrical talent on topics ranging from politics to philosophy to love.

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby 1337geek » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:54 pm UTC

MuseSik wrote:
1337geek wrote:I'd much rather listen to something with real instruments, talented musicians, great lyrics, etc.

You really should give some of the above mentioned artists a chance.

Perhaps. There were a couple of them I hadn't heard of, but I'm not enthusiastic.

As far as 'real instruments' go, that argument is a joke, unless you meant 'people who play instruments'. I'd imagine anything that can be used to create sound would qualify as an instrument.

Hehe. Good call.

Talented Musicians? The producer of a good rapper probably understand music better than your average musician. Mr Dibbs, DJ Shadow, and Danger Mouse, have amazing instrumentals that only pure talent could produce.

Oh, there's no doubt that (most) producers are geniuses. I certainly couldn't do it. And amazing instrumentals sound out-of-place when the rest of the song is coming out of somebody's drum machine.

Great Lyrics? Sage Francis. Immortal Technique. Slug. Eyedea. Just pick a random lyric from any of them. You will you find amazing lyrical talent on topics ranging from politics to philosophy to love.

I did exactly what you said. I hadn't heard of Immortal Technique, so I Googled "immortal technique lyrics" and picked one at random. Here's what I found: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/immortal ... porta.html That's a real gem right there.

Edited to fix broken tag
Last edited by 1337geek on Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:59 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:49 am UTC

Immortal Technique is a bad example, I think of them as bragging about their street cred more then anything... I.e., rap.

Theres a huge difference between hip hop and rap, as hip hop tends to focus on counter culture, whereas rap strives to become mainstream and make with the bling. Most hip hop i've heard is less bragging and more spoken word poetry to really good beats, while most rap i've heard is all bragging and mostly nonsensical gibberish about why they'll rape who and her and kill that thug with their homies... But hey, I generalize.

Seriously, if your being cynical, look up Lyrics from the following tracks and tell me with a straight face you don't think its impressive:

Skip town, Garbage, How to Be a Carpenter, Labor, Daylight, Save yourself, Flashflood, No regrets, Battery, 9-5ers Anthem, None Shall Pass...
Float is pretty solid, good introduction of his observations of New York. Labor Days is a mindblowing rail against the frustrations of the daily grind and life... I didn't like his subsequent three albums as much, but his lyrical insanity is still there.

For Atmosphere, look up lyrics for Saves the Day, LoveLife, or Always Coming back Home to You.

For Sage Francis look up lyrics for, Tolerance Level, Makeshift Patriot (this song is win, its angry and evenkeeled), Climb Trees, Broken Wings...

Anyway, I don't expect anyone to devote the time for these songs, but just want to get it out there that if your judging a genre based on a small sample, or even a series of songs from a DIFFERENT but distantly related genre, your being a prat. That'd be like me saying Johnny Cash sucks because I heard a country song that was stupid. Yes, they both had a guitar, repeated song pattern and a chorus.
Point is similarities don't equal sameness.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby SomeoneElse » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:45 am UTC

1337geek,

Many hip-hop artists are talented in what they do - just because they don't necessarily play guitar, it doesn't mean they dont actually "make music". Turntabling can be awesome, and samples can be used in genius ways. But apart from sampling and scratching, lots of hip-hop artists play instruments - the Beastie Boys for example occasionally play guitar/bass/drum, as do N.E.R.D. The Roots have a full band, and Digable Planets are essentially a jazz band who play hip-hop.

Immortal Technique is a bad general example of good lyrics. But lyrics can be bad or good in all genres - loads of lyrics in rock are appallingly cliched, as are hip-hop lyrics sometimes. Just as the melody and instrumentation makes a rock song better than its component lyrics, beats and flow make a hip-hop song great.

Of course, there are good hip-hop lyrics just as there are good rock lyrics. Want lyrics? Off the top of my head, how about this? But its pointless; lyrics just look stupid when reading them; they make a lot more sense with the music.

I don't expect you to suddenly love hip-hop, just as you can't get me to like Britney Spears... but hip-hop does have more artistic integrity than you'd believe.

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:06 am UTC

bump to Peruvian Cocaine, I love that song...
Whats the one about the gangster who has to rape and kill a woman, only to realize how awful it was?
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby MuseSik » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:07 am UTC

I guess I shouldn't have used Immortal Technique as an example. When I posted that, I just finished listening to Peruvian Cocaine and One Remix. While both tracks are very strong lyric wise, I guess they don't project his overall style. I do stand firm on Atmosphere, Sage, and Eyedea.

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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby MuseSik » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:10 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:bump to Peruvian Cocaine, I love that song...
Whats the one about the gangster who has to rape and kill a woman, only to realize how awful it was?


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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby aleflamedyud » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:17 am UTC

Lyrics to Nas's "One Mic"
Of course, if you want something deeper or more significant just read lyrics to any non-American hip-hop song. Nearly everything from east of the Atlantic has some kind of personally or politically significant content beyond "Look at my blingy big tonker."
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby 1337geek » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:54 am UTC

SomeoneElse wrote:I don't expect you to suddenly love hip-hop, just as you can't get me to like Britney Spears...

Trust me, I think we're on the same page regarding Britney Spears.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby ChocloManx » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:01 pm UTC

I like Run DMC (I've only heard 3 or 4 songs, though), the song "The Message" by Grandmaster flash and "Damn it feels good to be a gangsta", Futuristic Sex Robotz and that's about it.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby Felstaff » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:12 pm UTC

For discerning tastes, the Ultramagnetic MCs spun some rather fine Hip-Hop in the 90s

Switch up, change my pitch up, smack my bitch up, like a pimp.

For lovers of real music, I recommend DJ Format, for some old-school Hip-Hop; particular the Hit Song

I got more hits than a workaholic Mafia hitman.

Jurassic 5 are the best purveyors of Hip Hop around. Although I think some of the stuff I saw at 2ManyDJs set at Glastonbury a few years was outstanding. I recommend begging, borrowing or stealing their Radio Soulwax mash-up sessions. Phenomenal.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby 1337geek » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:12 pm UTC

ChocloManx wrote:I like Run DMC (I've only heard 3 or 4 songs, though), the song "The Message" by Grandmaster flash and "Damn it feels good to be a gangsta", Futuristic Sex Robotz and that's about it.

Futuristic Sex Robotz... are they actually well-known? I've only heard of them through their Halo video, which was made by a friend of a friend of mine.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby ChocloManx » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:16 pm UTC

1337geek wrote:Futuristic Sex Robotz... are they actually well-known? I've only heard of them through their Halo video, which was made by a friend of a friend of mine.


I dunno. I hope so.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby PhantomReality » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:12 am UTC

Being a white suburban upper middle class kid at an expensive collage i can give my expert opinion on hip hop, what with identifying so much with it. I think Tupac and Biggie have to be classified as ganster rap because they were thugs, completely, they were both MORE than just gangster rap. More on this subject later i need to go to bed
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby socynicalsohip » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:17 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:Although I think some of the stuff I saw at 2ManyDJs set at Glastonbury a few years was outstanding. I recommend begging, borrowing or stealing their Radio Soulwax mash-up sessions. Phenomenal.

2Many DJs are brilliant, never really pegged them as Hip Hop myself though.Saying that the Skeelo/Breeders mash on Radio Soulwax pt2 however is awesome! I also agree on the DJ Format fron too.

PhantomReality wrote:Being a white suburban upper middle class kid at an expensive collage i can give my expert opinion on hip hop, what with identifying so much with it.

HA, this made me laugh a little too loud in the office. Good call but there is alot more to Rap and Hip-Hop than ghetto fantasism and 'thuglife'.

I reccomend that any geeks on this forum search for MC Frontalot and download "Secrets from the Future". A song which waxes lyrical about the pros and cons of strong encryption! Stick that in your crack pipe and smoke it.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby PhantomReality » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:32 pm UTC

socynicalsohip wrote:HA, this made me laugh a little too loud in the office. Good call but there is alot more to Rap and Hip-Hop than ghetto fantasism and 'thuglife'.



I agree, but I enjoy Rap if it appears in hip hop, gangster rap or wherever (all the genres blend) for two reasons: Flow, and content. I'll listen to Tupac because he has both, but a song like "hit em up" is just for the flow, and I guess the anger it projects can be cool when you're drunk and a song like "changes" has both. That incredible message, that uplifting message that went straight out to the ghetto was just amazing. Then there's artists like Nas who paint these portraits of life in the ghetto and lament it's existence and educate people about it. Hip hop is just so god damn cool.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby Midnight » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:48 pm UTC

mac dre is really amusing.. but some of his songs are actually GOOD (if you know what I mean by that...)

andre nickatina is also really good. he's got clever rhymes and such, knows what he's doing.

both are bay-area, local kinda stuff though.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby Felstaff » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:22 am UTC

There is a fundamental difference between US and UK Hip-Hop and Rap. US lyricists have a tendency to focus on the allure of wealth, and the ability to live a luxurious lifestyle once they have 'escaped' a high-crime area (apparently called ghettoes, but I've looked at ghettoes on the History Channel, and they don't look like what's being described; chiefly bearded old Polish men with armbands saying Jüden). Anyway, US rappers focus on success and the cool hedonism that follows.

In the UK, it's very different; the music is more grimy. It is the aural equivalent of that shade of green they use for the walls in the Saw films. This is because there isn't the money, fame, or opulent lifestyle. A lot of UK hip-hop 'stars' don't have the kind of cash that their US counterparts do. As a result, they are still living in the grimy, seedy, crime-ridden areas that populate city suburbs like weeping buboes; and this is really reflected in the music.

A lot of UK rappers aspire to live like how successful US rappers live, but unfortunately still live with their mum in a 2-bedroom bedsit on the fifth floor of a dilapidated council estate in South London, living on state-handouts with little education and no aspirations other than to get on MTV Cribs one day.

it's very sad, and a terrible aspect of today's society, but I prefer to look on the bright side: it does make for great music. So as long as US rappers are still living in their Beverley Hills mansions waxing lyrical about their tough childhoods, and UK artists are still living in squalor, desperate to get out of the morose desperation of inner-city life, then the rest of us can enjoy thoroughly excellent music!
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby PhantomReality » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:43 pm UTC

Dude I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about if you think the "ghettos" aren't as bad as they seem. I'll proceed to trash your post hardcore after I get out of class. Be prepared.
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Re: Hip-Hop and Rap

Postby Bakemaster » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:54 pm UTC

Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Outkast, MC Frontalot, some other random stuff that I don't remember the name of or who did it. I haven't been exposed to a huge amount of hip-hop or rap. I used to listen to a Gil Scott-Heron LP that I found in my parents' old records quite a bit; now I don't have a player or the old records. I like some rap-rock; Rage and some Chili Peppers qualify.

90% of everything is crap, and these genres are no exception. The most popular stuff is rarely the best, and that makes any popular genre look shitty.
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