Unpopular Musical Opinions

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McCaber
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby McCaber » Fri May 29, 2009 7:33 pm UTC

Rhombulus wrote:
Mous wrote:Myth: Ska is not dead.
Ska is totally dead. All the new ska bands since RBF and Catch 22/Streetlight sold out suck (try to compare Operation Ivy to the Aquabats. There is no comparison). And all the fans of ska suck. They're all just half assed emo punks and computer/band nerds. And idiots who confuse ska and techno (which is terrible).
or rather, ska should be dead but some dumbasses insist on keeping it a vegetable on life support.
wait, what?
Streetlight and Catch 22 sold out? when?
Indeed. Streetlight is the only thing actually keeping ska alive. They are the most talented musicians I've ever heard in a ska band.

Reel Big Fish has been dead since '98, though.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Rhombulus » Sat May 30, 2009 2:41 am UTC

McCaber wrote:Reel Big Fish has been dead since '98, though.

As much as I hate to admit it, this is really true. Alas. They had their run.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby porcupine » Sat May 30, 2009 5:06 am UTC

Oflick wrote:Syd Barret > David Gilmour

Actually after seeing a video of Interstellar Overdrive being performed by Syd Barrett, I think that Gilmour's playing is based off of Syd's. The guitar playing sounds similar throughout most of their early albums, I think it's partly because PF was still very expiremental at the time so they reused effects that were used originally in Interstellar Overdrive. Anyways, I like Syd better too.

I hate how some people instantly reject music that they are unfamiliar with. For example, I bought 2001: A Space Odyssey a while ago and have only been able to watch it once because "THE MUSIC SUCKS! ITS NOT THE JONAS BROTHERS!" or something to that effect.

My opinion about music: All music genres are equal, but some are more equal than the others.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby The Binkster » Sat May 30, 2009 12:01 pm UTC

- RHCP are the most overrated, dull and uninventive band in existence (swiftly followed by Metallica and Nirvana)
- The Who are not fantastic!
- The Beatles are not overrated. The made the best pop-rock ever, they experimented and they pushed (the prevailing) musical boundaries with every single thing they did.
- Paul McCartney and John Lennon are shit on their own.
- Prog. Rock is the best 'popular' genre there is.
- Radiohead are not terrible, they just aren't as brilliant as everyone thinks they are...
- maudlin of the Well and Kayo Dot are the best bands of the last twenty years.
- Meshuggah are mindblowing.
- Jazz is better than everything else...ever.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby kaniman2 » Sun May 31, 2009 12:12 am UTC

The Binkster wrote:- Meshuggah are mindblowing.

This is the only one on the list I completely agree with.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Rhombulus » Sun May 31, 2009 3:13 am UTC

kaniman2 wrote:
The Binkster wrote:- Meshuggah are mindblowing.

This is the only one on the list I completely agree with.
Same. Except maybe the thing about the Who. In small quantities, the Who's really awesome, but I can't listen to the songs that last for like 7 minutes and are endlessly repetitive.


Nirvana? uninventive? wha? really?
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby apoklips » Sun May 31, 2009 6:08 am UTC

Rhombulus wrote:
Nirvana? uninventive? wha? really?


Yes, really. It's been said a thousand times over, but they basically sound like a watered down version of the Pixies.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby mickyj300x » Sun May 31, 2009 6:18 am UTC

Xenakis is quite an awesome composer.

NOTE: I DID NOT SAY BEAUTIFUL. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GET IT RIGHT.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby TheAmazingRando » Sun May 31, 2009 10:30 pm UTC

apoklips wrote:Yes, really. It's been said a thousand times over, but they basically sound like a watered down version of the Pixies.
They sound pretty different to me.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Phill » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:02 am UTC

The Binkster wrote:- RHCP are the most overrated, dull and uninventive band in existence


I agree with this. Seems to me most of their songs sound the same. I don't think they're worthy of the attention they get. IMO :p

- The Who are not fantastic!


Don't agree with this, but speaking of 60s bands I could never get into the Rolling Stones. I don't really know why, but their music never did much for me. I always listen to them thinking, "this song should have more energy than it does". Can't really quite explain it.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaz » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:50 am UTC

The Pixies are not heavy.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gamma Ray » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:24 pm UTC

Katy Perry has released one of the best pop albums in recent years.

Sunn O))) are actually quite good.

Death From Above 1979 and Test Icicles are two of the most underrated bands of all time.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby The Binkster » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:12 pm UTC

Gamma Ray wrote:Sunn O))) are actually quite good.


They are! Black One is one of the best albums I've ever heard; it's like listening to pure evil.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby J Spade » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:00 pm UTC

My opinions are particularly unpopular because I am in high school:

-Newer Rap/Hip-Hop sucks. Sugarhill Gang is where it's at. Drugs, gangs and whores aren't everything. And I'd like to be able to understand whatever it is you're saying.
-Fallout Boy sucks. As do Panic at the Disco.
-Jazz is actually better to listen to than radio pop.
-I don't care how difficult it is to play 32nd notes on a drum set bass drum. Being able to do it doesn't make you a good musician (even if you smash wildly at the crash cymbals while doing it.)
-Along those lines, some of the best drummers that ever lived were jazz drummers.
-The Beatles were pretty good, but not worth the commotion they got.
-Dragonforce recorded one song over and over with varying lyrics and guitar solos. And that song is overplayed. And playing it in Guitar Hero does not make you awesome.
-The Jonas Brothers, and any other Disney-sanctioned artists (including Hannah fucking Montana) SUCK AND I HATE HOW 12-YEAR-OLDS WORSHIP THEM LIKE GODS! DAMN IT.
-Live music is better than a hired DJ any day.
-Classical has its place along with jazz, rock and all other music.
-Music theory should be a required class in high school, so that those that become musicians have that much more of a chance to not write a sucky song with no progression of chords or rhythms.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby scrt_rbt_agnt » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:03 pm UTC

Gamma Ray wrote:Death From Above 1979 and Test Icicles are two of the most underrated bands of all time.


death from above 1979 isn't underrated at all. they've racked up a crapload of critical acclaim. just read any review of you're a woman, i'm a machine.


J Spade wrote:-Dragonforce recorded one song over and over with varying lyrics and guitar solos. And that song is overplayed. And playing it in Guitar Hero does not make you awesome.


dude, everyone knows dragonforce is a joke band.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:40 am UTC

- Iron Maiden always was crap.
- Metallica's just trying out random chords and keep what sounds right, like RHCP and essentially too much.
- Bach's just trying out random chords that he memorized from in advance they sound right, naturally he always keeps them, much like Mozart, people mainly like it to appear intellectual. Bartok's and Mahler is where classical music's at.
- Kraftwerk was crap, it's just remembered because they are pioneers.
- - Ulver
- - Metallica
- - Darkthrone
- - Brian Eno
- - Paul van Dyk
- Essentially 1999's trance is a cheesy party gimmick, all the 'classics' are really just children music.
- Dream Theatre's 'technical perfection' is highly overstated, and if you ask people what 'technical perfection' means they all give a different answer, from 'knowing a lot of techniques' to 'being able to play the notes in high precision'
- - Jordan Rudess can not play like a concert pianist. He sounds like the typical classical piano school dropout, he can hit the notes al right, but if it was about that you could let a computer play and do away with Glenn Gould (the only person that can make Bach good to listen to), in effect, it's also about hitting the notes in the right intonation.
- The Doctor (Or Robert Picardo) from Star Trek Voyager really isn't that good a singer, but Sisko (Or Avery Brooks) has it where it counts, he sings like a true nigga with a soul, unlike 50 Cent, but that's not controversial enough.
- Filosofem, though an important album, its quality is overstated.
- Delerium's first album was not Karma, they released five before that which were masterpieces for their age, though done with the crude technology of that time, but still, wow.. 'Spiritual Archives' and 'Stone Towers', the mantras.
- Sound scorers like John Williams really suck
- -Clint Eastwood
- - Yeah, whatever made Lux Aeterna
- The Birthday Massacre always sounded accessible and catchy, they did not change their sound when they got popular, they just got noticed. I listened them from the Imagica days on and was quite certain that one day they would be big.
- Joey Jordison is actually quite a decent drummer, a lot better than Lars Ulrich, he just plays shit music in a shit band.
- Programmed drums > real drums
- - Slow passages in black metal with heavy bassy clearly electronic 'dance' drums that function as ritual percussion are awesome, Darkspace and Reflexions in Time are the masters of this
- - Add vocal samples too from sci fi films
- - - Japanese and anime
- Neptune Towers is pretty bad
- Buying music is immoral and disrespectful to people that actually have a real job they need to work for instance of being a millionaire from being a bad drummer like Lars Ulrich and having the generously paid time of your life on stage ya?
- Guitars are a pretty awful instrument that lacks versatility
- 9 minute long extremely taedious boring ambient intros in black metal tracks are actually beyond win, again see Darkspace
- - 32 minute long tracks, why not? See Darkspace
- - - Just repeating the same blast ad infinitum for hypnosis is cool too, see Darkspace
- - No really guys, you have to see Darkspace it's like Burzum but 90 times as good, and it's about SPACE, they have SPACE NAMES like Zhaaral, also, they give all their tracks and alba the same name. Because they're like.. interesting
- BandpicturesOf(x) really suck as a concept, but hey, it gives teenage girls more of a mental image -> ???(x) -> ProfitFrom(x)
- Atonal music is good
- Dissonant music is even better
- - Discordant, why not?
- - Merzbow???
- Early Front Line Assembly sucked, Decoy > Mindphaser
- Garm's vocals are overrated
- All those Neogermanic paganism bands with faux rune logotypes need to internally combust, Satanism is over eh guys? That was all childish, let's bash Christians for believing stupidity while we don't even believe stupidity but just want to believe it to fit in.
- The majority of Latin titles have bad grammar, Pain of Salvation any one? If you can read Latin the entire corpus of trying-to-be-interesting music defaults to Zero Wing.
- Linkin Park is essentially quite creative music that's really hated to be cool a lot, the artists are creative, have their own style and really layer the music well together and it's made with thought, also, they direct and special effect their own clips and make their own covers and shit.
- - t.A.T.u.'s also put together well in the same vein, but they don't do it themselves
- - Ayu.
^ :/

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby nyeguy » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:06 am UTC

Gaydar2000SE wrote:- Guitars are a pretty awful instrument that lacks versatility

I'm not sure how you could think this. I understand not liking guitars, I myself love wind instruments more than anything, but it seems rather hard to say guitars lack versatility. I always thought that was their main strength.

Anyway, most of these opinions are only unpopular within the subset of musically educate people:
  • A lot of music on the radio DOESN'T suck
  • Simple music (like generic rock structure and such) isn't inherently bad
  • Music that is catchy but not necessarily great compositionally isn't garbage (ie some FOB)
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:13 am UTC

nyeguy wrote:
Gaydar2000SE wrote:- Guitars are a pretty awful instrument that lacks versatility

I'm not sure how you could think this. I understand not liking guitars, I myself love wind instruments more than anything, but it seems rather hard to say guitars lack versatility. I always thought that was their main strength.
Well, there are some other instruments like the pianoforte which has in its strength it's magnificent control of intonation really. But the downside is that the tones it can reach are ultimately discrete and a finite set. Other there is the violin which removes this problem.

But really, both are just bottom-up working, personally, I like to first think of a sound and then how to achieve it. And if that means like I have to record a guitar 2 octaves up, then slow it down a factor 4 and apply the right effects to it so be it, that can be one way. Another way can be using phase edited triangle samples for hihats because they better approximate the sound I want. Guitars are often employed with no foresight to that, just fooling an effect until it sounds nice, not the reverse.

Also, guitars are quite limited in range, and they are instruments which don't sound nice on their own, except maybe some pardon for the Spanish here, but most of the times guitars have to have a bass, or a voice, or drums or all with them. A pianoforte is quite suitable as a solo instrument a rare thing. Also, cubase does this.
^ :/

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Marbas » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:53 am UTC

- Neptune Towers is pretty bad


Wait, there are people who like Neptune Towers? That Algol crap was intolerable to me, and I really like Noise and Dark Ambient.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:03 am UTC

Marbas wrote:
- Neptune Towers is pretty bad


Wait, there are people who like Neptune Towers? That Algol crap was intolerable to me, and I really like Noise and Dark Ambient.
oh you like to think that don't you?

Essentially they just feel they have to because it's Fenriz or some thing. I'm the user with the avatar that instantly stands out. I consider myself to have better taste than other people that say they have good taste in dark ambient.
^ :/

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Marbas » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:07 am UTC

Gaydar2000SE wrote:
Marbas wrote:
- Neptune Towers is pretty bad


Wait, there are people who like Neptune Towers? That Algol crap was intolerable to me, and I really like Noise and Dark Ambient.
oh you like to think that don't you?


Oh dear. I am sad now. Quite sad.

:(
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:10 am UTC

Marbas wrote:
Gaydar2000SE wrote:
Marbas wrote:
- Neptune Towers is pretty bad


Wait, there are people who like Neptune Towers? That Algol crap was intolerable to me, and I really like Noise and Dark Ambient.
oh you like to think that don't you?


Oh dear. I am sad now. Quite sad.

:(
Oh you dark ambient emo. Emo black metal is emo yes, Trist is emo. Trancelike Void is emo. Svartsinn's emo because he had some track called 'Misanthropic Odyssey'

It's to laugh, the world is one big party and you better stay stupid because intelligent people hate parties.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Marbas » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:13 am UTC

Gaydar2000SE wrote:
Marbas wrote:
Gaydar2000SE wrote:
Marbas wrote:
- Neptune Towers is pretty bad


Wait, there are people who like Neptune Towers? That Algol crap was intolerable to me, and I really like Noise and Dark Ambient.
oh you like to think that don't you?


Oh dear. I am sad now. Quite sad.

:(
Oh you dark ambient emo. Emo black metal is emo yes, Trist is emo. Trancelike Void is emo. Svartsinn's emo because he had some track called 'Misanthropic Odyssey'

It's to laugh, the world is one big party and you better stay stupid because intelligent people hate parties.


Does this mean that Black Seas of Infinity is emo because they're/he's called Black Seas of Infinity?
Jahoclave wrote:Do you have any idea how much more fun the holocaust is with "Git er Done" as the catch phrase?

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:34 am UTC

Marbas wrote:
Gaydar2000SE wrote:
Marbas wrote:
Gaydar2000SE wrote:
Marbas wrote:
- Neptune Towers is pretty bad


Wait, there are people who like Neptune Towers? That Algol crap was intolerable to me, and I really like Noise and Dark Ambient.
oh you like to think that don't you?


Oh dear. I am sad now. Quite sad.

:(
Oh you dark ambient emo. Emo black metal is emo yes, Trist is emo. Trancelike Void is emo. Svartsinn's emo because he had some track called 'Misanthropic Odyssey'

It's to laugh, the world is one big party and you better stay stupid because intelligent people hate parties.


Does this mean that Black Seas of Infinity is emo because they're/he's called Black Seas of Infinity?
Of course, or until some thing else associated with any thing remotely similar becomes high profile.

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^ :/

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby dedalus » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:21 pm UTC

The majority of Latin titles have bad grammar, Pain of Salvation any one? If you can read Latin the entire corpus of trying-to-be-interesting music defaults to Zero Wing.

Ummm... If you're talking about BE the grammar faults there are intentional.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:54 pm UTC

dedalus wrote:
The majority of Latin titles have bad grammar, Pain of Salvation any one? If you can read Latin the entire corpus of trying-to-be-interesting music defaults to Zero Wing.

Ummm... If you're talking about BE the grammar faults there are intentional.
No, he says they are intentional, and only after some big complaint about how bad it was.

Seemingly the people that say it cannot really be intentional are the people that have some knowledge of Latin.

It's quite obscure that he knew Latin and proceeded to make that. I see two plausible situations. 1) He screwed it up big time. 2) He knew he was going to screw it up and never attempted. Also, intentional really, really really bad grammar is a good excuse for not knowing a language. It really reads worse then 'What happen, some body set up is the bomb?', it doesn't really match the otherwise serious character of the album.
^ :/

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby sparks » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:09 pm UTC

Aleril wrote:-Gatsby's American Dream, Fall Out Boy and P!ATD all sound the same, but that doesnt mean they are bad, in fact they are great.


P!ATD (or, nowadays, PATD) are very distinguishable from most "emo" bands. Their first album sounds very dance-y with a morbid twist, while the second is considerably more melodic and sunshiney (and awesome).

1. Metallica suck. I don't dislike all metal (though most give me a headache, I will listen to Iron Maiden, Anthrax, and etc) but Metallica are just overrated, the pop of metal, and incredibly boring.
2. The Ramones cannot compare to The Clash.
3. Blink 182 and similar are bands made up of bored adolescents trying to be rebellious while living with rich mommy and dad.
4. NWA and Tupac, as The Original rap, are okayish as opposed to Eminem and so on.
5. Emo, screamo and hip-hop should be buried. And so should stuff like Beyonce, Pussycat Dolls and similar.
6. Marc Bolan is one of the greatest singers of the 20th Century.
7. Shakira is just vulgar and tacky. Christina Aguilera is overrated. There IS a difference between 'sexpositive' and 'crude' and Christina Aguilera seems to have found it.
8. T.Rex's Zinc Alloy should not be mocked and it isn't just an attempt to mimick Ziggy Stardust.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby doogly » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:10 pm UTC

NWA and Tupac are not original rap. You seek DJ Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Grand Wizard Theodore, and so on and so on. It is time to represent some Bronx up here.
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You're right about the Clash though.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:45 pm UTC

Obviously my e-peen is more phallic than yours as my opinions are more unpopular and I'm sooo underground.

"5. Emo, screamo and hip-hop should be buried. And so should stuff like Beyonce, Pussycat Dolls and similar."

^ Case in point.
^ :/

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SirMustapha » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:06 am UTC

Gaydar2000SE wrote:But really, both are just bottom-up working, personally, I like to first think of a sound and then how to achieve it. And if that means like I have to record a guitar 2 octaves up, then slow it down a factor 4 and apply the right effects to it so be it, that can be one way. Another way can be using phase edited triangle samples for hihats because they better approximate the sound I want. Guitars are often employed with no foresight to that, just fooling an effect until it sounds nice, not the reverse.


Taking the logic of one style of musicmaking and forcefully applying it to some other, incompatible style of musicmaking does not make an "unpopular opinion", but only a pretty cheap controversy bait. Besides, if you claim you don't have the same control over guitars that you have over drum machines, or something, it might just mean that you're not proficient with guitars, that's all; musicians like Adrian Belew and Robert Fripp easily trample your definition of the guitar as an instrument that "lacks versatility" in their sleep. Also, the skill of producing exactly the sound that's in one's head is pretty useless if the sound in one's head is a piece of shit. :)

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:18 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:Taking the logic of one style of musicmaking and forcefully applying it to some other, incompatible style of musicmaking does not make an "unpopular opinion", but only a pretty cheap controversy bait.
True, but if the opinion that comes from it is that guitars suck then that opinion is quite controversial. Or as the true kvltist says 'This sucks, it sounds too much like a guitar and too little like a vacuum cleaner.'

SirMustapha wrote:Besides, if you claim you don't have the same control over guitars that you have over drum machines, or something, it might just mean that you're not proficient with guitars, that's all;
Or that people who think the reverse have less proficiency in the drum machine, who knows? Besides, scratch drum machine, put sampler, I don't use drum machines for drums actually, but samplers, I find the latter to be more of a general purpose kid. Though synths to make the majority, but not all, of my sounds.

SirMustapha wrote:musicians like Adrian Belew and Robert Fripp easily trample your definition of the guitar as an instrument that "lacks versatility" in their sleep.
They don't actually, but I appreciate that you think you know my definitions, I was always under the impression that that's quite hard to do if I haven't stated it, but here it goes; originality in sound for me is the concept of 'I have no idea what I'm hearing but I like it.', after all, one must have heard it before at least once to recognize it.

Also, the skill of producing exactly the sound that's in one's head is pretty useless if the sound in one's head is a piece of shit. :)
Oh you did not just claim that there is a hard objective on which sound is 'good' did you? any. way. I kind of don't like it of a lot of guitar based music that essentially the songs have no real structure or suspense building and it's just switching part after part without working towards it for several measures. But that's just the trend, not the instrument.
^ :/

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SirMustapha » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:27 am UTC

Gaydar2000SE wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:Taking the logic of one style of musicmaking and forcefully applying it to some other, incompatible style of musicmaking does not make an "unpopular opinion", but only a pretty cheap controversy bait.

True, but if the opinion that comes from it is that guitars suck then that opinion is quite controversial. Or as the true kvltist says 'This sucks, it sounds too much like a guitar and too little like a vacuum cleaner.'


If "guitar sucks" is the opinion that logically comes from "the guitar is an instrument that does not suit my particular needs", either one has a very nasty habit of oversimplifying things, or it's -- just like I said -- cheap controversy bait, a way of making a particular opinion resonate strongly in people who'd otherwise not give a damn about it in the first place.

SirMustapha wrote:Besides, if you claim you don't have the same control over guitars that you have over drum machines, or something, it might just mean that you're not proficient with guitars, that's all;
Or that people who think the reverse have less proficiency in the drum machine, who knows?


Well, exactly, and that only strengthens my point: the "problem" lies not in the instrument itself, but in who uses it, and why.

(...) I appreciate that you think you know my definitions, I was always under the impression that that's quite hard to do if I haven't stated it


You stated it very clearly: "Guitars are a pretty awful instrument that lacks versatility". If there were second meanings concealed behind such a blunt and unmistakeable statement, it just means you're purposefully making yourself cryptic in order to mystify people and make yourself look artificially clever. "Versatility" is not a word with such an obscure meaning, and by giving it different, personal connotations, you're either just setting out traps, or expressing yourself badly.

originality in sound for me is the concept of 'I have no idea what I'm hearing but I like it.', after all, one must have heard it before at least once to recognize it.


If that's the case, I don't know why you dismiss Belew so promptly, since many people would hardly be able to, for example, guess the "synthesizer" solo in Born Under Punches by Talking Heads is actually a guitar. "I have no idea what I'm hearing but I like it"? Hell yes (though, of course, some people might not like it at all...).

Also, the skill of producing exactly the sound that's in one's head is pretty useless if the sound in one's head is a piece of shit. :)
Oh you did not just claim that there is a hard objective on which sound is 'good' did you?


Of course I did! Because that's a very effective way of making people pay attention to me, thus enticing debates and luring people into (cheap) controversy (bait), which would severely and quickly increase my notoriety here; achieving that, I could easily brag about my own music and making people interested. This is the Internet, after all. If I were just being balanced and fair, nobody would give a shit.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:54 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
Gaydar2000SE wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:Taking the logic of one style of musicmaking and forcefully applying it to some other, incompatible style of musicmaking does not make an "unpopular opinion", but only a pretty cheap controversy bait.

True, but if the opinion that comes from it is that guitars suck then that opinion is quite controversial. Or as the true kvltist says 'This sucks, it sounds too much like a guitar and too little like a vacuum cleaner.'


If "guitar sucks" is the opinion that logically comes from "the guitar is an instrument that does not suit my particular needs", either one has a very nasty habit of oversimplifying things, or it's -- just like I said -- cheap controversy bait, a way of making a particular opinion resonate strongly in people who'd otherwise not give a damn about it in the first place.
Yes, like any other thing post in this topic it's about stating things you feel about music that are impopular.. or 'controversial' if you call it. Smite me with thy godly might for following the topic O paladin to punish me for mine evil.

Well, exactly, and that only strengthens my point: the "problem" lies not in the instrument itself, but in who uses it, and why.
You seem to get very serious about this one point about guitars in this topic to state impop.. controversial musical opinions regardless of that it all applies to all my other points nay? Tell me, you wouldn't happen to really like guitars would you?
(...) I appreciate that you think you know my definitions, I was always under the impression that that's quite hard to do if I haven't stated it


You stated it very clearly: "Guitars are a pretty awful instrument that lacks versatility". If there were second meanings concealed behind such a blunt and unmistakeable statement, it just means you're purposefully making yourself cryptic in order to mystify people and make yourself look artificially clever. "Versatility" is not a word with such an obscure meaning, and by giving it different, personal connotations, you're either just setting out traps, or expressing yourself badly.
I meant my definition of 'versatility' actually, it's a matter of where to draw the line of course. There's no real singular point, it's a beard problem.

If that's the case, I don't know why you dismiss Belew so promptly, since many people would hardly be able to, for example, guess the "synthesizer" solo in Born Under Punches by Talking Heads is actually a guitar. "I have no idea what I'm hearing but I like it"? Hell yes (though, of course, some people might not like it at all...).
Should have a word with those, but then again. People said that of Brian May too and I never got that either, it's quite clearly a stringed instrument vibrating in its own resonance frequency for me. Strangely I cannot hear the difference that well between a piano and a Spanish guitar though.

Of course I did! Because that's a very effective way of making people pay attention to me, thus enticing debates and luring people into (cheap) controversy (bait), which would severely and quickly increase my notoriety here; achieving that, I could easily brag about my own music and making people interested. This is the Internet, after all. If I were just being balanced and fair, nobody would give a shit.
Extremely excellent way to evade that you made a slight error in your reasoning though. Still you might want to read the topic title.
^ :/

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby dedalus » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:55 am UTC

Gaydar2000SE wrote:
dedalus wrote:
The majority of Latin titles have bad grammar, Pain of Salvation any one? If you can read Latin the entire corpus of trying-to-be-interesting music defaults to Zero Wing.

Ummm... If you're talking about BE the grammar faults there are intentional.
No, he says they are intentional, and only after some big complaint about how bad it was.

Seemingly the people that say it cannot really be intentional are the people that have some knowledge of Latin.

It's quite obscure that he knew Latin and proceeded to make that. I see two plausible situations. 1) He screwed it up big time. 2) He knew he was going to screw it up and never attempted. Also, intentional really, really really bad grammar is a good excuse for not knowing a language. It really reads worse then 'What happen, some body set up is the bomb?', it doesn't really match the otherwise serious character of the album.

Well considering that he also twisted various English words e.g. Chinassiah = china + messiah, I don't think you can turn around and say that he didn't intend on doing it. You can complain that he shouldn't have, but there's plenty of times in music that people forgo grammatical correctness in what ever language they use for arts sake... E.g. Sigur Ros are notorious for not making much if any (grammatical or lyrical) sense in their songs even when they sing in Icelandic. So yeah, argue that people should stick to simple grammar and be a pedant if you want, but don't just assume that Gildenlow made a mistake and was trying to cover it up.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:42 am UTC

dedalus wrote:
Gaydar2000SE wrote:
dedalus wrote:
The majority of Latin titles have bad grammar, Pain of Salvation any one? If you can read Latin the entire corpus of trying-to-be-interesting music defaults to Zero Wing.

Ummm... If you're talking about BE the grammar faults there are intentional.
No, he says they are intentional, and only after some big complaint about how bad it was.

Seemingly the people that say it cannot really be intentional are the people that have some knowledge of Latin.

It's quite obscure that he knew Latin and proceeded to make that. I see two plausible situations. 1) He screwed it up big time. 2) He knew he was going to screw it up and never attempted. Also, intentional really, really really bad grammar is a good excuse for not knowing a language. It really reads worse then 'What happen, some body set up is the bomb?', it doesn't really match the otherwise serious character of the album.

Well considering that he also twisted various English words e.g. Chinassiah = china + messiah, I don't think you can turn around and say that he didn't intend on doing it. You can complain that he shouldn't have, but there's plenty of times in music that people forgo grammatical correctness in what ever language they use for arts sake... E.g. Sigur Ros are notorious for not making much if any (grammatical or lyrical) sense in their songs even when they sing in Icelandic. So yeah, argue that people should stick to simple grammar and be a pedant if you want, but don't just assume that Gildenlow made a mistake and was trying to cover it up.
It was 'machinassiah' I think but I see two reasonable options though:

A) He never tried to have proper Latin grammar and just made gibberish.
B) He tried, but failed, and covered it up.

A lot of the bad grammar can easily be corrected, like 'Lilium Cruentus' to 'Lilium Cruentum' or 'Vocari dei' to 'Voces ad Deum' or 'Deus Novus Mobilis'.

A or B, I don't know some titles have some minor errors in them, others like that one are indeed quite absurd. Genesis, Genesister, Genesinister. Had you seen 'his' last.fm profile by the way, it's quite funny. http://www.last.fm/user/DanielGildenlow
^ :/

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby dedalus » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:30 am UTC

Haven't but it's quite amusing. Cheers for the link. He doesn't take himself very seriously on the PoS official site either.

Sorry yeah, machinassiah = machine + china + messiah. And yeah, I think that he ditched his latin and english grammar to be more inventive with both languages. Things like Vocari Dei sound better as they are.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:55 am UTC

wel 'machina' is also Latin for 'machine' or 'instrument' or 'automated process' of course. Deus ex Machina

And Vocari Dei only sounds better of course if one is ignorant of Latin. One could say that to Japanese people having no understanding of English 'somebody set up us the bomb' sounds better, but if you're an English speaker it's just hilarious.

Also 'Vocali Deo' is also Latin. or 'Vocali Dei', but that cannot mean 'messages to god' in any conceivable way, more 'to God's vocal'
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SirMustapha » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:19 pm UTC

Gaydar2000SE wrote:Yes, like any other thing post in this topic it's about stating things you feel about music that are impopular.. or 'controversial' if you call it. Smite me with thy godly might for following the topic O paladin to punish me for mine evil.


I can understand stating things you feel. When you have to diss off an instrument and warp the word "versatility" in order to state things you feel, maybe you're trying too hard?...

I meant my definition of 'versatility' actually, it's a matter of where to draw the line of course. There's no real singular point, it's a beard problem.


Well, you acted as you knew my definition of "definition". Don't blame me. :)

You seem to get very serious about this one point about guitars in this topic to state impop.. controversial musical opinions regardless of that it all applies to all my other points nay?


Pulled the "you're taking yourself seriously!!" card too early, there. :) I'm perfectly neutral about guitars, couldn't play one to save my life, and I don't choose my music on the basis of whether a guitar is present or not. I appreciate people who make great music, and whether they fiddle around until they find something good or they concoct complex equipment chains and software tricks in order to get EXACTLY the sound they need is their problem, not mine. :)

Should have a word with those, but then again. People said that of Brian May too and I never got that either, it's quite clearly a stringed instrument vibrating in its own resonance frequency for me.


That's cool. Maybe May's techniques were so dazzling because synthesizers at that time were still severely limited by today's standards, and it was much harder to take some abstract sound you had in your head and PRECISELY pin it down and transfer it to tape (hard but not impossible -- just reading the way Mike Oldfield got that trebly, sustained lead guitar sound in the 70's ties my brain in a knot). I think that, back then, fiddling around and experimenting with instruments until you found something cool was a very normal and valid way of making music, because sometimes it was all you had, you know. Those guys had to go to great lengths of experimentation in order to turn the guitar into a pretty flexible instrument that fits just fine in the context of jazz, progressive rock, heavy metal and even ambient music (as much as that term wasn't yet coined when (No Pussyfooting) was recorded). The fact that modern tools are far more powerful than guitars is not exactly an "unpopular" opinion; it is debatable, because guys like Tom Jenkinson are still using them extensively in spite of their largely experimental use of synthesizers, samplers and music software. A term like "pretty awful" makes a neutral and technical fact turn into an "unpopular opinion", but I find that a bit artificial, you know? It creates a big emotional issue out of absolutely nothing. I'm not "emotional" about guitars, like I said, so I have no problem with that. I do think there is a danger when you use strong and harsh terms to oversimplify perfectly valid points; newspapers do that all the time, and it annoys me.

Extremely excellent way to evade that you made a slight error in your reasoning though. Still you might want to read the topic title.


It's not an error in my reasoning if you took to heart a jokey comment I made. :) Not that I haven't made that mistake before myself, but I couldn't let that one pass. Besides, I was tired and I needed a laugh. :)

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Gaydar2000SE » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:39 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:I can understand stating things you feel. When you have to diss off an instrument and warp the word "versatility" in order to state things you feel, maybe you're trying too hard?...
Could be, maybe you like guitars just a little bit too much and you've singled that one out of all other things I and others said because you find it hard that some one criticizes the instrument?
I meant my definition of 'versatility' actually, it's a matter of where to draw the line of course. There's no real singular point, it's a beard problem.


Well, you acted as you knew my definition of "definition". Don't blame me. :)
See it as a compliment, if your definition of that word differs you do not know English namely and I hold you in such high esteem that I assumed that you did.

You seem to get very serious about this one point about guitars in this topic to state impop.. controversial musical opinions regardless of that it all applies to all my other points nay?


Pulled the "you're taking yourself seriously!!" card too early, there. :) I'm perfectly neutral about guitars, couldn't play one to save my life, and I don't choose my music on the basis of whether a guitar is present or not. I appreciate people who make great music, and whether they fiddle around until they find something good or they concoct complex equipment chains and software tricks in order to get EXACTLY the sound they need is their problem, not mine. :)
Excellent, then please elaborate why singling out the guitar thing out while they are far more controversial and 'rude' things in that list?

Should have a word with those, but then again. People said that of Brian May too and I never got that either, it's quite clearly a stringed instrument vibrating in its own resonance frequency for me.


That's cool. Maybe May's techniques were so dazzling because synthesizers at that time were still severely limited by today's standards, and it was much harder to take some abstract sound you had in your head and PRECISELY pin it down and transfer it to tape (hard but not impossible -- just reading the way Mike Oldfield got that trebly, sustained lead guitar sound in the 70's ties my brain in a knot). I think that, back then, fiddling around and experimenting with instruments until you found something cool was a very normal and valid way of making music, because sometimes it was all you had, you know. Those guys had to go to great lengths of experimentation in order to turn the guitar into a pretty flexible instrument that fits just fine in the context of jazz, progressive rock, heavy metal and even ambient music (as much as that term wasn't yet coined when (No Pussyfooting) was recorded). The fact that modern tools are far more powerful than guitars is not exactly an "unpopular" opinion; it is debatable, because guys like Tom Jenkinson are still using them extensively in spite of their largely experimental use of synthesizers, samplers and music software. A term like "pretty awful" makes a neutral and technical fact turn into an "unpopular opinion", but I find that a bit artificial, you know? It creates a big emotional issue out of absolutely nothing. I'm not "emotional" about guitars, like I said, so I have no problem with that. I do think there is a danger when you use strong and harsh terms to oversimplify perfectly valid points; newspapers do that all the time, and it annoys me.
I find 'lacking versatility' quite a the modest term if I'm honest.

Extremely excellent way to evade that you made a slight error in your reasoning though. Still you might want to read the topic title.


It's not an error in my reasoning if you took to heart a jokey comment I made. :) Not that I haven't made that mistake before myself, but I couldn't let that one pass. Besides, I was tired and I needed a laugh. :)
I still feel guitars to be overrated though. But I find essentially almost all instrument crap, I should add that. The reason I put guitar there is because every one loves it, thus making it controversial, some thing a lot of people in this topic don't get as an essential value. Like saying Dragonforce is bad.
^ :/

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby sparks » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:24 pm UTC

Gaydar2000SE wrote:Obviously my e-peen is more phallic than yours as my opinions are more unpopular and I'm sooo underground.

"5. Emo, screamo and hip-hop should be buried. And so should stuff like Beyonce, Pussycat Dolls and similar."

^ Case in point.


What? I didn't claim anything about being "underground". I hate emo because I find it unoriginal and not interesting, screamo gives me headache and not allowing your fans to understand what you're yelling into the mic doesn't make it any smarter, hip-hop is just plain gross IMO. Regarding Beyonce, Pussycat Dolls and similar, I don't find songs like "Don't Cha" to be particularly good. I don't make any claims to be underground, if I did, I wouldn't listen to David Bowie and I wouldn't have ever gone to a Bob Dylan concert. Instead, I would be listening to an obscure band nobody has ever heard off. I just like interesting music or music I can identify with, but when I decide to get side bangs and a lip ring or when I decide to be incredibly demeaning of female sexuality, I will tell you and maybe we can be friends.

doogly wrote:NWA and Tupac are not original rap. You seek DJ Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Grand Wizard Theodore, and so on and so on. It is time to represent some Bronx up here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk_VcnBO7xE

You're right about the Clash though.


I'm really sorry, I wasn't really clear. I gave NWA and Tupac as examples, I of course know there were artists before them, that they didn't invent rap and weren't the, erm, grandparents of the genre, but they're the ones I know better. Thanks for the heads up, though! :)
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