Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Felstaff » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:30 pm UTC

Away, you scullion! you rampallion! You fustilarian! I'll tickle your catastrophe.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Yakk » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:52 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:Every grunt in series four (9 minute video)

Season was approx 1.5% grunt.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Woopate » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:23 pm UTC

Show/Book spoiler:

Spoiler:
I didn't mind the Brienne/Hound encounter. The fight was well choreographed (though I have to object to shakey cam), and I like that the show is milking Arya for dialogue with main characters she didn't particularly have an opportunity to speak with in the books.

The Jaime/Tyrion/Tysha absence has me really curious. I won't condemn it, but eschewing that particular conversation pretty well rewrites BOTH character's motivations in the coming books. Be interesting to see how they manage it. It also made the whole Tywin execution make less sense/implicate Varys as planning it even more than the books did.

Stannis coming to save the day in the book took me completely by surprise. If I recall correctly, most of the book went by without a Davos POV so you sort of forgot about it. Obviously it's less of a surprise in the show, but I think it sort of suffers for it. Making it a surprise in the book drew attention to it, and sort of showed off that Stannis is the only king to concern himself with personal obligation rather than just power.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:32 pm UTC

Not really a spoiler, but just in case. Is basic background and characterization spoiler? On Stannis;

Spoiler:
Eh, Stannis is just as power-hungry as the rest, even if he won't admit as much. He betrayed the Seven for the power of The Lord of Light. And if he didn't want to be king, all he had to do was declare his brother to be his Regent or whatever.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Vahir » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:38 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Not really a spoiler, but just in case. Is basic background and characterization spoiler? On Stannis;

Spoiler:
Eh, Stannis is just as power-hungry as the rest, even if he won't admit as much. He betrayed the Seven for the power of The Lord of Light. And if he didn't want to be king, all he had to do was declare his brother to be his Regent or whatever.


He could have just publicly abdicated from the throne in favor of Renly, of course. But I think he'd rather die than do that. Think about it: All his life, it was Renly who got everything that was supposed to be Stannis's. He starved under a brutal siege for years in his brother's name, living off rats, only to suffer the humiliating loss of the Stormlands in favor of some rocks nobody cares about. It's not so much that Stannis didn't want to give up the crown, as much as he didn't want to give it up to Renly.

I've read an idea around the internet that I really like, that when they catch up to the books they could make prequel seasons based on Robert's Rebellion. That would be awesome, because even if they veer of course like they've done so far in the show, it wouldn't matter, because there would be no written material to contradict them.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Woopate » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:54 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Not really a spoiler, but just in case. Is basic background and characterization spoiler? On Stannis;

Spoiler:
Eh, Stannis is just as power-hungry as the rest, even if he won't admit as much. He betrayed the Seven for the power of The Lord of Light. And if he didn't want to be king, all he had to do was declare his brother to be his Regent or whatever.

More Stannis stuff. I think it's book safe.
Spoiler:
I don't know about power hungry. He's pretty much the definition of Lawful Neutral, rules above all. Playing by the rules, he is the King who is dealing with rebels. Converting to the Lord of Light is mere strategy for magical advantage (I don't know if playing to win when it comes to war should be called power hungry). The Wall sent out a desperate plea to everyone and ONE king of five responded.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Lazar » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:16 pm UTC

Vahir wrote:I've read an idea around the internet that I really like, that when they catch up to the books they could make prequel seasons based on Robert's Rebellion.

Eh, from what I've heard, that's pretty unlikely. The younger actors like Isaac Hempstead Wright would look too old, and GRRM has said that the story of Robert's Rebellion would spoil too much of ASoIaF. Plus there'd have to be a ton of prequel seasons, because there's no indication that TWoW is coming out any time soon, let alone ADoS.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Dark567 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:05 pm UTC

Lazar wrote:
Vahir wrote:I've read an idea around the internet that I really like, that when they catch up to the books they could make prequel seasons based on Robert's Rebellion.

Eh, from what I've heard, that's pretty unlikely. The younger actors like Isaac Hempstead Wright would look too old, and GRRM has said that the story of Robert's Rebellion would spoil too much of ASoIaF. Plus there'd have to be a ton of prequel seasons, because there's no indication that TWoW is coming out any time soon, let alone ADoS.

GRRM basically said the entirety of Robert's rebellion will be written in ASOIAF proper, just all through characters remembering, conversations etc. If the same will mostly be true of the show, there is no reason for a prequel the story will already get told.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:45 am UTC

GRRM has said that Lord Howland Reed (Ned Stark's friend, father of Jojen and Meera Reed) is appearing eventually. As he is the only other person besides Ned to (revealed in first book, but not show)
Spoiler:
survive the fight in the Tower of Joy, he is the only person alive who may know what Lyanna Stark made Ned promise.


Continued, speculation, major spoiler if you haven't read books.
Spoiler:
My money is that the secret is that John Snow is Lyanna and Rheager's son. Lyanna made Ned promise to keep the secret so that John would be relatively safe. So Ned raised John "as his blood", because he kind of was. John, being Stark and Targaryen, makes him doubly useful as magical ingredients for Melisandre. The Targaryens are implied to have a hand in magic; notice that every person with "King's Blood" that Melisandre uses is part Targaryen (the Baratheon brothers' grandmother was one). As for Stark, they have the magic of the First Men. John is both dragon and direwolf, so the blood of both Fire and Ice flows through his veins.



That would answer quite a bit that we don't know yet.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:16 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:GRRM has said that Lord Howland Reed (Ned Stark's friend, father of Jojen and Meera Reed) is appearing eventually. As he is the only other person besides Ned to (revealed in first book, but not show)
Spoiler:
survive the fight in the Tower of Joy, he is the only person alive who may know what Lyanna Stark made Ned promise.


Continued, speculation, major spoiler if you haven't read books.
Spoiler:
My money is that the secret is that John Snow is Lyanna and Rheager's son. Lyanna made Ned promise to keep the secret so that John would be relatively safe. So Ned raised John "as his blood", because he kind of was. John, being Stark and Targaryen, makes him doubly useful as magical ingredients for Melisandre. The Targaryens are implied to have a hand in magic; notice that every person with "King's Blood" that Melisandre uses is part Targaryen (the Baratheon brothers' grandmother was one). As for Stark, they have the magic of the First Men. John is both dragon and direwolf, so the blood of both Fire and Ice flows through his veins.



That would answer quite a bit that we don't know yet.

Spoiler:
I thought that was fairly established. I thought whole "Song of Ice and Fire" was placing Jon Snow as Ice, and Dany as Fire. And the way the Targaryens are going to be restored by Jon and Dany having babies. But yeah, Jon does have Fire and Ice in his veins. Yeah; I think it's pretty well established that Lyanna and Rheager are Jons parents, and the promise was to keep it secret and care for Jon. It was a big deal, because the silence required to protect Jon meant sacrificing Neds sense of propriety.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:20 am UTC

Spoiler:
BRAN is the Ice, not Jon.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Vahir » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:48 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
Spoiler:
BRAN is the Ice, not Jon.


The title can and has been used in a hundred different ways in this story. It applies to a lot of stuff.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:35 am UTC

The only way I'll be shocked at anything in the books is if
(minor book spoiler)
Spoiler:
Dany, Tyrion, or Bran permanently die before the series climax.


Book 5 Ending Spoiler
Spoiler:
I don't want Jon to die (he might not, but probably will), but the minute he decided to break his oath with the Night's Watch I knew there would be Consequences. The Martinverse holds no mercy for Stupid. And honestly, he's still a kid. Did anyone think making a kid Lord Commander of a faction WOULDN'T end up in disaster? His story was too, umm, heroic as well, and Martin has it in for dumb heroes.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:09 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
Spoiler:
BRAN is the Ice, not Jon.

If anybody in the story is ice, it is the white walkers.

The title comes from the Poem by Robert Frost, as I've pointed out before in this thread. So the ice is hate.
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.


The story so far follows the poem quite closely. Spoilered just in case, but only contains spoilers up to early season 4.
Spoiler:
First the country tears itself apart in a civil war, fueled by desire for the iron throne, and then once that's more or less settled (Robb dead, Renly dead, Stannis defeated), it tears itself apart a second time, this time fueled by hatred (Joffrey's murder, Oberyn's vendetta, the whole Tywin / Cersei / Jamie / Tyrion thing. A few other things not yet revealed in the show).
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:41 pm UTC

Random question (s04e10 only):

Spoiler:
Did Tyrion kill Tywin with Joffrey's crossbow?

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby stickler » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:46 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Random question (s04e10 only):

Spoiler:
Did Tyrion kill Tywin with Joffrey's crossbow?

Spoiler:
I'm confused as well, it looks the same - but was in Tywin's chambers.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby freezeblade » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:47 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Random question (s04e10 only):

Spoiler:
Did Tyrion kill Tywin with Joffrey's crossbow?


Spoiler:
yup. Although I figure that this was re-using props, I don't remember them specifying it was Jeoffry's in the books
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:57 pm UTC

So, which characters do you actually want to die, and why?

Spoilers obviously, since wanting them to die means they are still alive, and given the nature of the show...

Spoiler:
Ramsay Bolton. While his father is pretty close to "villain", everyone on the show kind of is. Roose is pragmatic about it, and doesn't torture people unnecessarily. Sure there's the implied quasi-rape (the right of "first night"), but he hasn't done anything idiotic. Ramsay, however, that kid is a more deranged Joffrey. I don't care about what he did to Theon who, let's face it, earned his fate. But Ramsay is just being stupid with the gratuitous violence and hunting peasant girls to death. You won't stay a lord if your peasants hate you.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Adam H » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:15 pm UTC

Very minor hint about who is still alive in book 5:
Spoiler:
the only characters that I really want to die haven't been introduced in the show yet, so it would be completely off topic for me to discuss them! :)
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:16 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I want Theon to die. First, because he betrayed the Starks the moment he set foot back on the Iron Islands (hey may technically have been their hostage, but he seemed to have been treated like family), and now because I kinda feel sorry for him and want him to be put out of his misery. His mind is broken, his body is broken, it seems extremely unlikely he'll ever accomplish anything of note now. Put the wretched thing out of it's misery.

As you said, Ramsey is also due an horrific death. If The Mountain survives his poisoning, I want him to crush Ramsey's skull like an egg, like what he did to Oberyn.

Before the last few episodes, I'd also have included Sansa in the list of characters I want to die. She's been so infuriatingly passive for the best part of four seasons, so timid, so demure, so... fucking useless. Her character seemed to exist purely to be shat on from great heights. But that episode where she lied for Littlefinger and turned into a goth chick makes me think maybe, just maybe, she might do something worthwhile now.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:22 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:Very minor hint about who is still alive in book 5:
Spoiler:
the only characters that I really want to die haven't been introduced in the show yet, so it would be completely off topic for me to discuss them! :)


B5 spoiler
Spoiler:
Aegon? Everyone seems to hate him for being an asspull, but in real life things like that do happen...

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:08 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
Spoiler:
I want Theon to die. First, because he betrayed the Starks the moment he set foot back on the Iron Islands (hey may technically have been their hostage, but he seemed to have been treated like family), and now because I kinda feel sorry for him and want him to be put out of his misery. His mind is broken, his body is broken, it seems extremely unlikely he'll ever accomplish anything of note now. Put the wretched thing out of it's misery.

As you said, Ramsey is also due an horrific death. If The Mountain survives his poisoning, I want him to crush Ramsey's skull like an egg, like what he did to Oberyn.

Before the last few episodes, I'd also have included Sansa in the list of characters I want to die. She's been so infuriatingly passive for the best part of four seasons, so timid, so demure, so... fucking useless. Her character seemed to exist purely to be shat on from great heights. But that episode where she lied for Littlefinger and turned into a goth chick makes me think maybe, just maybe, she might do something worthwhile now.

Spoiler:
FWIW, I think Theon's betrayal is an underline to the notion that loyalties are sometimes complicated in this world. Remember, he protected Bran and Rickon. Theon's character is a study of how twisted and convoluted loyalty and ties can be.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Yakk » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:28 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Book 5 Ending Spoiler
Spoiler:
I don't want Jon to die (he might not, but probably will), but the minute he decided to break his oath with the Night's Watch I knew there would be Consequences. The Martinverse holds no mercy for Stupid. And honestly, he's still a kid. Did anyone think making a kid Lord Commander of a faction WOULDN'T end up in disaster? His story was too, umm, heroic as well, and Martin has it in for dumb heroes.

Spoilers/speculation beyond the end of the currently published novels:
Spoiler:
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Jon's watch ends when he dies.

Jon is Ned Stark's sister's son, and the trueborn son of the last Tagaryan king, and the "legitimate" uncrowned king of Westeros. He technically gave this up in order to join the night's watch, but his watch ends when he dies.

Now, part of the game that GRRM is playing is that he is going to invert the tropes. So maybe all those hints (what is in Lyanna's tome, what Howland Reed has seen, and presumably what will be revealed when Bran walks the threads of time and sees the events of the Tower of Joy, where Lyanna died in a bed of blood (childbirth) and Ned Stark walked out alone with Howland Reed after defeating multiple Kingsguard.

Now, in the show, they haven't shown much of these hints. But Bran Stark has reached the Three Eyed Crow, and will shortly be able to see into the past. This will allow them to include flashbacks to what has happened decades ago and vaguely remembered tracts in the books on the TV show, if they can manage the pacing. (This can also be used to slow down the pace of the TV show to let GRRM keep ahead of it).

We now care about the characters, engrossing us in their past should be easy.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Adam H » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:11 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
Adam H wrote:Very minor hint about who is still alive in book 5:
Spoiler:
the only characters that I really want to die haven't been introduced in the show yet, so it would be completely off topic for me to discuss them! :)


B5 spoiler
Spoiler:
Aegon? Everyone seems to hate him for being an asspull, but in real life things like that do happen...

I'm gonna go reply to this in the book thread, like a boss.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:27 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:So, which characters do you actually want to die, and why?

Spoilers obviously, since wanting them to die means they are still alive, and given the nature of the show...


For me...

Spoiler:
Daeneyrs. Not because she's evil or anything, just because she's boring. I'm really, really, hoping she turns out to be the main villain of the story. That's pretty much the only thing I think that could redeem her plot.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:57 am UTC

@Laserguy

Game of Thrones doesn't HAVE main villains. Well, other than the White Walkers, and even then we don't know for certain. There are no heroes either, or at least none that live longer than mayflies. Everyone is the villain to someone else, and everyone is a hero in their own little world. Such is the way of life.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:09 am UTC

Some people are more villainous than others.

Spoiler:
I want to see Daenerys become the next Joffrey. Or die. One or the other.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Dark567 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:37 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:@Laserguy

Game of Thrones doesn't HAVE main villains. Well, other than the White Walkers, and even then we don't know for certain. There are no heroes either, or at least none that live longer than mayflies. Everyone is the villain to someone else, and everyone is a hero in their own little world. Such is the way of life.
GRRM has said the White Walkers are more than they seem and not just LOTR style just plain evil dudes. I suspect at a minimum they are doing what they are doing to survive at least, if not something more complicated beyond that.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:41 am UTC

From their perspective, humans could be food. Are humans evil because we eat cows? Cows would say we are.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:27 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:From their perspective, humans could be food. Are humans evil because we eat cows? Cows would say we are.

Spoiler:
We've already seen that humans are how they reproduce. The whole baby stealing thing.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Joeldi » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:52 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:From their perspective, humans could be food. Are humans evil because we eat cows? Cows would say we are.

This, down to the species used, is one of the central themes of Martin's 1982 novel Fevre Dream. Spoilers for that -
Spoiler:
The protagonists are of the opinion that vampires eating people is evil, because humans can create, imagine and communicate with vampires whereas humans eating cows is A-OK because cows don't have that capacity. A second parallel is drawn to 19th century White America and slavery
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:20 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:
Adam H wrote:Very minor hint about who is still alive in book 5:
Spoiler:
the only characters that I really want to die haven't been introduced in the show yet, so it would be completely off topic for me to discuss them! :)


B5 spoiler
Spoiler:
Aegon? Everyone seems to hate him for being an asspull, but in real life things like that do happen...

I'm gonna go reply to this in the book thread, like a boss.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:37 pm UTC

Book level spoilers about potential changes for next season:

Spoiler:
Looks like we won't be getting lady stoneheart at all (unless this is an attempt to mislead bookreaders). Linky.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby freezeblade » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:50 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:Book level spoilers about potential changes for next season:

Spoiler:
Looks like we won't be getting lady stoneheart at all (unless this is an attempt to mislead bookreaders). Linky.


Fucking. Upset.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:17 am UTC

freezeblade wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:Book level spoilers about potential changes for next season:

Spoiler:
Looks like we won't be getting lady stoneheart at all (unless this is an attempt to mislead bookreaders). Linky.


Fucking. Upset.

I know this is considered blasphemy, but I disagree.
(Book spoiler ahead)
Spoiler:
I always thought bringing back bringing back Catelyn was one of the weaker points of the series. It's deconstruction of the 20th century fantasy genre with a "everybody can die" approach was always one of the best things of the books. The Red Wedding defines the series. Bringing back Catelyn (even if she was brought back wrong) undoes a lot of that awesomeness.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:58 pm UTC

fucking everyone wrote:Book spoilers in the TV show thread


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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:42 pm UTC

Well, the complaint is about a moderately important character being removed from the show. It's bad enough that we lost another important character earlier on, but that was much more forgivable in that it would've been a spoiler for the books as well.

Of course, there are a few things in the show that aren't in the books (yet) though;
Spoiler:
The white walkers reproduce via babies; everyone assumed this was the case since Craster sacrificed his sons though.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:46 pm UTC

Given the direction the show's going, unless you want to force there to be three threads for every combination of book-reader and show-watcher, it being an adaptation necessitates some discussion of book spoilers in relation to the adaptation and those certainly belong better here than in the other thread.

When people just start talking about the books sure, they should go to the other thread, but that isn't what happened here and I don't see anything wrong in discussing how the work has been adapted in the thread for the adaptation provided discussion stays pertinent to the adaptation (which it has in this case).
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Lazar » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:54 pm UTC

Clearly we need three threads: one for show discussion, one for book discussion, and one for mixed-medium discussion. And then one for cryptic comments made by GRRM, one for metafictional counterfactuals, one for Dunk and Egg, one for trash talk, one for Westerosi recipes, and one for LotR crossovers.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:28 am UTC

Lazar wrote:Westerosi recipes


Sounds like I'll be making a thread in the Food forum soon...
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