Doctor Whom

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Jorpho
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Mon May 13, 2013 1:08 pm UTC

Dang, that's going to make it more difficult to find a legitimate download come next Saturday, I reckon.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Mon May 13, 2013 10:56 pm UTC

On Facebook, the official Dr Who page has asked people not to post spoilers, and in return they'll put out a clip for the 50th anniversary special (I don't know if it was one they were going to release anyway, or if they're releasing it early, or anything).
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Aikanaro » Tue May 14, 2013 11:55 pm UTC

I have ONE generalized-spoiler question regarding the Doctor's name: PLEASE just tell me they don't pull some lame-ass unreveal. It's one of the tropes I despise most. I can stand waiting for it, so long as I know what I'm waiting for isn't a stupid, cock-tease cop-out.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Game_boy » Wed May 15, 2013 9:28 am UTC

Aikanaro wrote:I have ONE generalized-spoiler question regarding the Doctor's name: PLEASE just tell me they don't pull some lame-ass unreveal. It's one of the tropes I despise most. I can stand waiting for it, so long as I know what I'm waiting for isn't a stupid, cock-tease cop-out.


Spoiler:
A particular version of the spoiler I saw said exactly that. No reveal.


However it's by definition impossible to tell if the supposedly spoiler text going around is actually based on a viewing of the DVD or is just with convenient timing.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Wed May 15, 2013 10:13 am UTC

Aikanaro wrote:I have ONE generalized-spoiler question regarding the Doctor's name: PLEASE just tell me they don't pull some lame-ass unreveal. It's one of the tropes I despise most. I can stand waiting for it, so long as I know what I'm waiting for isn't a stupid, cock-tease cop-out.

It's pretty obvious they're not going to reveal the Doctor's name - what Moffat has said is that the Doctor's greatest secret will be revealed, and it will change the course of the series. I'm guessing, rather than his name, they'll reveal why his name can't be said.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Aikanaro » Thu May 16, 2013 3:50 am UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
Aikanaro wrote:I have ONE generalized-spoiler question regarding the Doctor's name: PLEASE just tell me they don't pull some lame-ass unreveal. It's one of the tropes I despise most. I can stand waiting for it, so long as I know what I'm waiting for isn't a stupid, cock-tease cop-out.

It's pretty obvious they're not going to reveal the Doctor's name - what Moffat has said is that the Doctor's greatest secret will be revealed, and it will change the course of the series. I'm guessing, rather than his name, they'll reveal why his name can't be said.

That MIGHT be acceptable, except that River Song has already spoken his name aloud. (Well, into his ear).
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby KrytenKoro » Thu May 16, 2013 4:41 pm UTC

Maybe it's that whatsit, block transfer code, and it ends the universe if spoken loudly enough? Maybe if more than two people can hear it, or something. That still wouldn't explain why it was okay for River to say it, but whatever.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Game_boy » Sat May 18, 2013 6:44 pm UTC

uh
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Whelan » Sun May 19, 2013 12:27 am UTC

Well, here're my thoughts.

Spoiler:
I liked it; there wasn't any Sonic Ex Machina.
GI was a bit out of nowhere, could've done with a bit more building but; a generic villain, threatening The Doctor for personal reasons was great.
I loved the explanation for Clara.
I also loved the past season references. No attempt to bring Them into the Story, just to show that Clara is there throughout and The Doctor (And by extension, the audience) just never noticed...
If I could spoiler within a spoiler I would, but I can't, so here's my theory.

Ready?


Sure..?

Here goes!

The Doctor's name, isValeyard.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Sun May 19, 2013 2:19 am UTC

Not as awesome as The Big Bang, but still an excellent season ender. And a nice setup for the anniversary special.

Spoiler:
Trenzalore being the location of the Doctor's Tomb was a nice find. The words that must never be spoken indeed turned out to be the Doctor's name, and that was good. I really liked that they didn't try to bullshit around that one. The explanation for Jenny was excellent.

Everything moved a bit too fast though. This should have been a two-parter I feel. Everything could have used a bit more build-up.

The reveal of the extra doctor left me extremely giddy though. I presume this is the one that ended the time war by destroying Gallifrey? I always thought that was the 9th doctor, but I guess they really are introducing a new reincarnation between 8 and 9. Very interesting. Is this one the Valeyard? I never watched the old Doctor Who's so I don't know exactly what the mythology surrounding him is. But there was a reference to the Valeyard in this episode, and that can't be a coincidence.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Sun May 19, 2013 4:07 am UTC

Not bad, but
Spoiler:
it messes with the ending of Silence in the Library, which was such a sweet and perfect ending. I always thought subsequent Doctors would probably see a lot of River, too.


So what's that line at 26:56?
Spoiler:
"The tardis can still hear me. Lucky thing. [unintelligible]"

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Sun May 19, 2013 4:36 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:Not bad, but
Spoiler:
it messes with the ending of Silence in the Library, which was such a sweet and perfect ending. I always thought subsequent Doctors would probably see a lot of River, too.


So what's that line at 26:56?
Spoiler:
"The tardis can still hear me. Lucky thing. [unintelligible]"

Spoiler:
Sounds sort of like "The TARDIS can still hear me. Lucky thing, since him indoors is being so useless."
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Sun May 19, 2013 10:58 am UTC

Diadem wrote:
Spoiler:
The reveal of the extra doctor left me extremely giddy though. I presume this is the one that ended the time war by destroying Gallifrey? I always thought that was the 9th doctor, but I guess they really are introducing a new reincarnation between 8 and 9. Very interesting. Is this one the Valeyard? I never watched the old Doctor Who's so I don't know exactly what the mythology surrounding him is. But there was a reference to the Valeyard in this episode, and that can't be a coincidence.


Spoiler:
The Valeyard is meant to be between "somewhere between your twelfth and thirteenth regeneration"
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Sun May 19, 2013 2:45 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
Diadem wrote:
Spoiler:
The reveal of the extra doctor left me extremely giddy though. I presume this is the one that ended the time war by destroying Gallifrey? I always thought that was the 9th doctor, but I guess they really are introducing a new reincarnation between 8 and 9. Very interesting. Is this one the Valeyard? I never watched the old Doctor Who's so I don't know exactly what the mythology surrounding him is. But there was a reference to the Valeyard in this episode, and that can't be a coincidence.


Spoiler:
The Valeyard is meant to be between "somewhere between your twelfth and thirteenth regeneration"

Spoiler:
Yeah I know that much. But how set in stone is that? Because it really sounded like they are going the Valeyard route on this one
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Whelan » Sun May 19, 2013 2:55 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:
Diadem wrote:
Spoiler:
The reveal of the extra doctor left me extremely giddy though. I presume this is the one that ended the time war by destroying Gallifrey? I always thought that was the 9th doctor, but I guess they really are introducing a new reincarnation between 8 and 9. Very interesting. Is this one the Valeyard? I never watched the old Doctor Who's so I don't know exactly what the mythology surrounding him is. But there was a reference to the Valeyard in this episode, and that can't be a coincidence.


Spoiler:
The Valeyard is meant to be between "somewhere between your twelfth and thirteenth regeneration"

Spoiler:
Yeah I know that much. But how set in stone is that? Because it really sounded like they are going the Valeyard route on this one

Spoiler:
No reason the Valeyard couldn't go back and commit some atrocity as plot to get more regenerations, that ended up starting the Time War. Which forces his younger selves to fight in it and lock it and Oh me yarm I like this theory. It'd be timey-wimey, but when's that stopped them before?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby You, sir, name? » Sun May 19, 2013 5:05 pm UTC

Whelan wrote:Well, here're my thoughts.

Spoiler:
I liked it; there wasn't any Sonic Ex Machina.
GI was a bit out of nowhere, could've done with a bit more building but; a generic villain, threatening The Doctor for personal reasons was great.
I loved the explanation for Clara.
I also loved the past season references. No attempt to bring Them into the Story, just to show that Clara is there throughout and The Doctor (And by extension, the audience) just never noticed...
If I could spoiler within a spoiler I would, but I can't, so here's my theory.

Ready?


Sure..?

Here goes!

The Doctor's name, isValeyard.


Spoiler:
Dunno. It's always the Valeyard. The way it's used isn't as a name, but as as a title (like the doctor, the master, the rani, etc.)

There are of course time lords that seem to use their name, like Rassilon, Omega, Romana, and so forth. Maybe it's going to tie back to one of those? (well, Romana is unlikely I suppose).
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Sun May 19, 2013 11:21 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I'm a bit blarg at the fact that even in five minutes of screen time they couldn't seem to be consistent as to whether he's the Doctor or not. Matt keeps going "He's me but he's not The Doctor", and Clara says "You're the Eleventh Doctor" and then the end credits go "John Hurt as The Doctor". I do like the Valeyard explanation, and if they go that route it will be *very* interesting to see how justified his actions actually are - my understanding of the original Valeyard was that he was basically the "evil" Doctor with all the stuff he represses to be the amazingly nice person he is, but John Hurt's character (from the 5 seconds of dialogue) seems more to be saying that what he did - presumably ending the Time War by sealing Gallifrey off from time - was what he had to do.

On an unrelated note, I really liked the way the tomb was played - the TARDIS dimensional controls failing and the "bigger on the inside" and timey-wimey stuff leaking out, and especially the idea that the Doctor's "corpse" is actually his timeline. I really, really wish this had been a two-parter, though, because the Great Intelligence needed more build-up and a better explanation of what was going on with those pseudo-bodies he had, and there needed to be more than 5 minutes of clips of Clara/GI spliced into old episodes, to show the actual actions both of them were doing.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Aikanaro » Mon May 20, 2013 2:42 am UTC

Spoiler:
Eh, I personally disliked the lack of a body. I mean, we've had other Time Lords die and leave bodies, so why not him? I'm also curious if the Great Intelligence is, functionally, "dead" at this point, and has been neutralized by Clara. Though it REALLY hurts my head for the Doctor to go inside his own timeline. Isn't that a bit like the whole universe going Divide By Zero?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Mon May 20, 2013 4:27 am UTC

Spoiler:
Presumably that's why jumping into a Time Lord's timeline is bad, but jumping into your own is just about the worst thing ever. And the reason why time travellers generally shouldn't go to their own grave, besides the fact that it probably also generates a fixed point in time.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Kulantan » Mon May 20, 2013 5:45 am UTC

Spoiler:
I wonder why did the Silence want to stop the name of the doctor being spoken at Trenzalore? Also does Clara know the Doctor's name now given that she now remembers the day when she read it, she would have heard River speak it and was present along the Doctor's whole timeline?

I think the not-Doctor calls himself Doctor but the other Doctors don't. Therefore the Doctor is both a valid name for him and an invalid name.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Mon May 20, 2013 6:06 am UTC

Kulantan wrote:
Spoiler:
I wonder why did the Silence want to stop the name of the doctor being spoken at Trenzalore? Also does Clara know the Doctor's name now given that she now remembers the day when she read it, she would have heard River speak it and was present along the Doctor's whole timeline?

I think the not-Doctor calls himself Doctor but the other Doctors don't. Therefore the Doctor is both a valid name for him and an invalid name.

Spoiler:
Where did the silence go to anyway? If their entire purpose of being is stopping the doctor from going to Trenzalore, why on earth don't they have a base on Trenzalore? That seems like too big an oversight to just handwave away. Or are the whisperers related to the silence?

And yeah, Clara absolutely should now know the doctor's real name. I suppose that's not too big an issue though, seeing as there's nothing inherently mystical about the doctor's real name after all.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Kulantan » Mon May 20, 2013 9:18 am UTC

Diadem wrote:
Spoiler:
Where did the silence go to anyway? If their entire purpose of being is stopping the doctor from going to Trenzalore, why on earth don't they have a base on Trenzalore? That seems like too big an oversight to just handwave away. Or are the whisperers related to the silence?


Spoiler:
Maybe this isn't the incident that the Silence are trying to stop. There wasn't any "fall of the Eleventh". More likely though is it being the mother of all plot holes.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Mon May 20, 2013 4:08 pm UTC

Kulantan wrote:
Spoiler:
Maybe this isn't the incident that the Silence are trying to stop. There wasn't any "fall of the Eleventh". More likely though is it being the mother of all plot holes.
I was thinking that too, but the quote from "The Wedding of River Song" was indeed, "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered."

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Mon May 20, 2013 5:45 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
Kulantan wrote:
Spoiler:
Maybe this isn't the incident that the Silence are trying to stop. There wasn't any "fall of the Eleventh". More likely though is it being the mother of all plot holes.
I was thinking that too, but the quote from "The Wedding of River Song" was indeed, "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered."

Spoiler:
He said they won't jump, they'll fall. That was the fall.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Whelan » Mon May 20, 2013 6:52 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
Jorpho wrote:
Kulantan wrote:
Spoiler:
Maybe this isn't the incident that the Silence are trying to stop. There wasn't any "fall of the Eleventh". More likely though is it being the mother of all plot holes.
I was thinking that too, but the quote from "The Wedding of River Song" was indeed, "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered."

Spoiler:
He said they won't jump, they'll fall. That was the fall.

Spoiler:
"Or fail to give answer"... Wait, The Doctor totally failed to give answer. River answered. And she's dead, so could have easily spoken falsely ... 0.o
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby KrytenKoro » Mon May 20, 2013 6:56 pm UTC

I really want to come back and read this wall of invisible posts after I've seen the episode.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Sytri » Tue May 21, 2013 7:30 am UTC

Spoiler:
As we've not seen how River comes to learn the Doctors name, does that mean that she's going to be in the 50th special? I'm assuming that's where the big reveal will be. I hope she is and I hope she isn't; I love River and I don't want her to go but I know that her time must be limited now that Rory and Amy have left, which is a shame.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby dock » Tue May 21, 2013 1:53 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Sytri wrote:As we've not seen how River comes to learn the Doctors name, does that mean that she's going to be in the 50th special? I'm assuming that's where the big reveal will be. I hope she is and I hope she isn't; I love River and I don't want her to go but I know that her time must be limited now that Rory and Amy have left, which is a shame.

I'd really like her to be left open-ended and pop up every now and again, but it does seem like she's being wrapped up. :(

Whelan wrote:"Or fail to give answer"... Wait, The Doctor totally failed to give answer. River answered. And she's dead, so could have easily spoken falsely ... 0.o

This and the lack of the Silence make me wonder if this is just the first-taste of Trenlazore, and maybe we'll see it again in the 50th. I hope so, since it really didn't live up to all the build up. We didn't see how Clara and the Doctor get out of the timeline / dead TARDIS, either.

The Whisper Men seem to be the inverse of the Silence - a mouth, but no eyes. Thoughts?

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Sytri » Tue May 21, 2013 2:13 pm UTC

dock wrote:
Spoiler:
Sytri wrote:As we've not seen how River comes to learn the Doctors name, does that mean that she's going to be in the 50th special? I'm assuming that's where the big reveal will be. I hope she is and I hope she isn't; I love River and I don't want her to go but I know that her time must be limited now that Rory and Amy have left, which is a shame.

I'd really like her to be left open-ended and pop up every now and again, but it does seem like she's being wrapped up. :(

Whelan wrote:"Or fail to give answer"... Wait, The Doctor totally failed to give answer. River answered. And she's dead, so could have easily spoken falsely ... 0.o

This and the lack of the Silence make me wonder if this is just the first-taste of Trenlazore, and maybe we'll see it again in the 50th. I hope so, since it really didn't live up to all the build up. We didn't see how Clara and the Doctor get out of the timeline / dead TARDIS, either.

The Whisper Men seem to be the inverse of the Silence - a mouth, but no eyes. Thoughts?

Spoiler:
What if the silence are some sort of creation by the named Doctor? To stop the travel to Trenzalore. Or maybe there's a more important reason for the name to not be spoken aloud, more dangerous than a time-lords grave.

Also, the silence did their job, the name wasn't spoken out loud. It was sort of telepathic from River to the TARDIS itself.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby phlip » Tue May 21, 2013 2:20 pm UTC

Spoiler:
There seemed to be a hint of the Silence... or at least a reused effect. At the beginning, when they're setting up for the conference call, Jenny sees something moving outside (we don't see what it is, it's too blurry). Just as she's starting to get intrigued, Vastra steps in, the tense sound effects cut off, and Jenny immediately snaps back to what she was doing before, as though it hadn't happened. Which is basically the same as how the Silence worked before they were properly introduced. Though I think we're supposed to assume that this is one of the whispering things that later break into the house.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Tue May 21, 2013 3:46 pm UTC

phlip wrote:
Spoiler:
There seemed to be a hint of the Silence... or at least a reused effect. At the beginning, when they're setting up for the conference call, Jenny sees something moving outside (we don't see what it is, it's too blurry). Just as she's starting to get intrigued, Vastra steps in, the tense sound effects cut off, and Jenny immediately snaps back to what she was doing before, as though it hadn't happened. Which is basically the same as how the Silence worked before they were properly introduced. Though I think we're supposed to assume that this is one of the whispering things that later break into the house.

Spoiler:
Well Jenny didn't really go on as if nothing happened. She became increasingly agitated. If she heard a vague, unspecific noise at first, it's not strange that she shakes it off at first and focuses on the meeting instead. And then as she continued to notice stuff, she became agitated. No silence needed there to explain that.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Dracomax » Tue May 21, 2013 3:51 pm UTC

Wild speculation based on the episode:
Spoiler:
Maybe the incident the Silence were talking about is the incident that led to Trenzalore being a battle graveyard, and the final resting place of the doctor.
If so, we will see trenzlore again, and it will almost certainly end with some sort of paradox.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby broken_escalator » Tue May 21, 2013 4:00 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I can't remember if we ever learned how the Silence knew that the Doctor must not go to Trenzalore. Was it a prophecy or time travel? The GI didn't regard that battle as all that impressive, but maybe he was comparing it to the Time War. Seems like the Silence was trying to prevent the world-ending event started by the GI entering the Doctor's time-thing. Makes me think they didn't know how it would be world-ending, but they knew it would be based on the Doctor getting to Trenzalore.

Hopefully something more will come of the whispermen. They were creepy, but they didn't really seem important to the story other than being the GI's mooks.

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Dracomax
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Dracomax » Tue May 21, 2013 4:38 pm UTC

Spoiler:
broken_escalator wrote:I can't remember if we ever learned how the Silence knew that the Doctor must not go to Trenzalore. Was it a prophecy or time travel? The GI didn't regard that battle as all that impressive, but maybe he was comparing it to the Time War. Seems like the Silence was trying to prevent the world-ending event started by the GI entering the Doctor's time-thing. Makes me think they didn't know how it would be world-ending, but they knew it would be based on the Doctor getting to Trenzalore.

Hopefully something more will come of the whispermen. They were creepy, but they didn't really seem important to the story other than being the GI's mooks.


So, in order to prevent the universe from being destroyed(likely from the davros incident, at the very least) they decided to set up a situation that would destroy the universe?(The TARDIS explosion). Doesn't make a lot of sense.
“have i gone mad?
im afraid so, but let me tell you something, the best people usualy are.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

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broken_escalator
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby broken_escalator » Tue May 21, 2013 6:15 pm UTC

Spoiler:
They aren't exactly competent. Kind of like how they raised River to kill the Doctor, but she turns out to be the one who says his name.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Tue May 21, 2013 10:56 pm UTC

Sytri wrote:
Spoiler:
As we've not seen how River comes to learn the Doctors name, does that mean that she's going to be in the 50th special? I'm assuming that's where the big reveal will be. I hope she is and I hope she isn't; I love River and I don't want her to go but I know that her time must be limited now that Rory and Amy have left, which is a shame.

Spoiler:
I was going to point out that River learned the Doctor's name in the screwed-up timeline where she married him, but then I remembered that at the point where that was going to happen he told her something else :roll:
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Wikihow wrote:* Smile a lot! Give a gay girl a knowing "Hey, I'm a lesbian too!" smile.
I want to learn this smile, perfect it, and then go around smiling at lesbians and freaking them out.

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Dracomax
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Dracomax » Sun May 26, 2013 11:25 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:
Spoiler:
They aren't exactly competent. Kind of like how they raised River to kill the Doctor, but she turns out to be the one who says his name.
Spoiler:
Also, in the end, so far as we know right now, nothing bad happened form trenzalore.

Unless it has something to do with the one who broke the rpomise, I guess.
“have i gone mad?
im afraid so, but let me tell you something, the best people usualy are.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby charliepanayi » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:41 pm UTC

"Excuse me Miss, do you like pineapple?"

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve it through not dying"

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The Geoff
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby The Geoff » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:21 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I'd like to see a few seasons of John Hurt, fill in the McGann->Eccleston gap a bit more than just a special or two.


I like the idea of going back to an older actor for a bit. Although Chris O'Dowd (FAQ About Time Travel, IT Crowd) has been suggested by someone, top idea.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:01 am UTC

The Geoff wrote:
Spoiler:
I'd like to see a few seasons of John Hurt, fill in the McGann->Eccleston gap a bit more than just a special or two.
Indeed, the timing seems just a little bit too convenient.


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