Doctor Whom

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby charliepanayi » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:36 pm UTC

I thought that was kind of sweet
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby TaintedDeity » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:38 pm UTC

Tonight's episode almost made up for the last two being shit and mediocre, respectively.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:14 pm UTC

Haven't watched tonight's episode yet. But I have been rewatching a lot of episodes lately. Upon rewatching Let's Kill Hitler I liked the episode a lot more. The last part was a bit mediocre, but the first part was pretty well written, and apart from the sudden introduction of Mels the plot made a lot of sense. And contained a few excellent lines. The parts with Hitler were short, but really well done. Overall a pretty good episode, though it has to grow on you.

"Night terrors" was still extremely mediocre though.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby charliepanayi » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:38 pm UTC

I loved Let's Kill Hitler, so it's 2 from 3 so far for me since returning.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby keozen » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:57 pm UTC

LOVED tonight's episode. Very well written, wonderfully acted.

Just damn good.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:36 pm UTC

Just watched the episode. Awesome. Classic Timey-Wimey doctor who.

Also, from what I saw in the end-of-episode-trailer next week looks like a 1984 episode. I'm really curious what they'll do with it. I can't imagine what the doctor's room 101 would look like.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Magnanimous » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:20 pm UTC

Well that was amazing.
Spoiler:
How exactly did attacking a robot with the Mona Lisa disable it...?

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:57 pm UTC

Rory walking around with
Spoiler:
a ginormous magnifying glass
was hilarious.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:56 am UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:Tonight's episode almost made up for the last two being shit and mediocre, respectively.
Mmm, yes, quite.

Magnanimous wrote:Well that was amazing.
Spoiler:
How exactly did attacking a robot with the Mona Lisa disable it...?

Spoiler:
Clearly this is in fact a secret power of the Mona Lisa, and there shall be a future episode in which we learn that Da Vinci in fact created all his paintings as weaponry to defend Renaissance Italy against a robot invasion. YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:35 am UTC

Great episode and all but haven't we had enough of the different time stream deaths? I understand that the threat of death heightens the drama but it doesn't work when you over use it (or when you the threat of death is not credible).
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Magnanimous » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:39 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:
Magnanimous wrote:
Spoiler:
How exactly did attacking a robot with the Mona Lisa disable it...?

Spoiler:
Clearly this is in fact a secret power of the Mona Lisa, and there shall be a future episode in which we learn that Da Vinci in fact created all his paintings as weaponry to defend Renaissance Italy against a robot invasion. YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

Spoiler:
I was hoping he'd use the Venus de Milo as a battering ram or something. We could've gotten another Hehe Boobs Moment.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:13 am UTC

Spoiler:
You know, it's a little known fact (probably due to movie appearance) that the Mona Lisa is painted on wood. Makes a much better weapon if you know that (however, the director obviously didn't know this).
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby thecommabandit » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:44 am UTC

Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
You know, it's a little known fact (probably due to movie appearance) that the Mona Lisa is painted on wood. Makes a much better weapon if you know that (however, the director obviously didn't know this).

Spoiler:
I think the point of it was for a "Holy shit, he just ruined the most famous painting in existence!" response. Though for that second before the robot deactivated I was fully expecting a classic Rory moment of "Well that didn't work like I hoped it would" along with a "Bugger... I just ruined this for no reason."
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:03 pm UTC

That felt to me like they wrote an episode which was 35 minutes long, then stretched the final act out to try and make the it fit the time slot. The last 10 minutes could have been edited down to two minutes easily.

I've always liked Amy Pond as a character, but in the first few episodes I thought Karen Gillan was fairly limited as an actress. But she's improved as the series goes on and I thought she was pretty great tonight. Rory, however, I am completely sick of. His faux-heroics leave me cold. I've never bought into the Amy/Rory love story which made this episode (and a fair few others) pretty dull for me.

Spoiler:
Were the hand-robots supposed to be scary? They were slow, easy to out-think and they were just trying to be nice.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:15 pm UTC

I think Rory's draw is supposed to be his dorky heroicness and he is badass in his own kinda way (Remember how he busted into the cybermen ship in a roman outfit with a sonic screwdriver?).

Spoiler:
Well, Doctor Who enemies aren't generally scary and they're quite often slow and easy to outwit... that is just how it is. But when you consider that it's a care facility for people who aren't generally going to go against the bots it's not surprising that they're nice and have calm movements.


I just don't get why they think anything matters after the finale of the last season? What can they do to top that? The constant "Oh no, this time it's really impossible, they're definitely fucked this time!" over and over is just getting a bit ridiculous... Gee I wonder if the Doctor will work his way out of what happened in episode one or not? :-/
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Hope_ » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:42 pm UTC

Rodion Raskolnikov wrote:That felt to me like they wrote an episode which was 35 minutes long, then stretched the final act out to try and make the it fit the time slot. The last 10 minutes could have been edited down to two minutes easily.

I felt like that as well, for most of the ending I was thinking, "Oh just get on with it!".
In my opinion, it was an excellent concept that wasn't badly done but not brilliantly done either.. In fact this half of the series has been a bit rubbish overall.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby mmmcannibalism » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:56 pm UTC

Spoiler:
How does a katana cut through a robot when you barely swing it?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:27 pm UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:
Spoiler:
How does a katana cut through a robot when you barely swing it?

Because television.

These filler episodes would have been much better placed before the mid-season finale.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:30 pm UTC

While I'm relieved that this episode was better than the last two, I'm getting really pissed that we haven't seen anything with substantial continuity to the big mid-season finale.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby NonSequitur » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:09 pm UTC

I suspect this episode might actually end up being important continuity-wise once everything's played out. It's a big step in the Doctor's relationship with Amy and Rory, and let's not forget
Spoiler:
it created an angry future Amy who hates the doctor. Even though her death looked unambiguous, bringing her back wouldn't surprise me at all with these writers.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ArgonV » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:02 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I also thought it was curious the Doctor didn't really care what future!Amy thought of him. He only cared about getting Amy out of there, even going so far to lie to them, resulting in future!Amy getting killed or at least, presumably, never having existed.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby halbarad » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:09 pm UTC

Personally I'm a little sick of the Rory/Amy interaction heavy episodes. Great that they are developing the characters more but Doctor Who has neve really been about how the companions interact with each other, more about how they interact with the Doctor and how alien he is (and should be).

Something this episode showed very well was how different he was from a human, which I think Tenant and RTD really lost (especially towards the end) where he became very human, and sometimes more human than some humans.

Of interest in this episode was:

Spoiler:
The bit where he says:

'Sometimes knowing your own future's what enables you to change it, especially if you're bloody-minded, contradictory, and completely unpredictable.'

Which is quite likely to be a big hint for the end of the series.



ArgonV wrote:
Spoiler:
I also thought it was curious the Doctor didn't really care what future!Amy thought of him. He only cared about getting Amy out of there, even going so far to lie to them, resulting in future!Amy getting killed or at least, presumably, never having existed.


Spoiler:
Why should he care? She doesn't exist anymore and he knew there was no way to save her so he saved the people he could. He's been hurt by emotions too many times "recently" for him to let them get in the way.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Magnanimous » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:20 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:
Spoiler:
I also thought it was curious the Doctor didn't really care what future!Amy thought of him. He only cared about getting Amy out of there, even going so far to lie to them, resulting in future!Amy getting killed or at least, presumably, never having existed.

Spoiler:
I thought that was his time traveler experience showing... He knew getting Amy out was the best possible option, and that it would be depressing, from the start.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby mercutio_stencil » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:22 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
You know, it's a little known fact (probably due to movie appearance) that the Mona Lisa is painted on wood. Makes a much better weapon if you know that (however, the director obviously didn't know this).

Spoiler:
It's an even lesser known fact that the Mona List has been painted on wood several times, makes you feel less bad about destroying it.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ArgonV » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:53 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I thought it was a copy? No need to do that on wood, right?

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Robert'); DROP TABLE *; » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:14 pm UTC

Does anyone else want to see the planet of the coffee shops?

Also, the first thing I thought of when I saw the new eisode trailer was
Spoiler:
scooby doo doors.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:31 am UTC

C'mon, don't tell me all of you missed the 1984 reference in that trailer?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby xkcd follower » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:53 pm UTC

I saw the reference (I think), and I think I caught on because that is an awesome book. Anyways, the episode was pretty good. I am really waiting for River to come back in the last few as my prediction is:
Spoiler:
River Song is in the astronaut suit> She is being arrested for killing the Doctor. She kills him in the future, and this is why they want her.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Aikanaro » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:52 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Group me in with those who are annoyed with how he essentially betrayed Old Amy. Way I see things, he has two Amys, two friends who he has sworn to protect. He can either 1: Let one of them suffer for 36 years, or 2: Let the other one cease to exist, which she clearly considers tantamount to death, and he doesn't deny. Why should Old Amy be any less deserving of saving than new Amy? The thing is, this way he gets to at least pretend his mistakes never happened. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they instead bring back Old Amy and make her be the astronaut. A person who swore to always protect her not only abandoned her for 36 years, but then after that promised to save her and at least take her with him, and then slammed the door in her face after giving her false hope.


Regarding the next episode:
Spoiler:
I read somewhere it's about a hotel where each room contains someone's greatest fear. I think I saw some Weeping Angels in one of the scenes, presumably Amy's greatest fear at this point. This kinda saddens me, because during the trailers for the second half of this season, I saw some of the Angels, and was really excited about the possibility of another episode focusing on them. I liked Blink, but the later episodes didn't do the Angels justice, IMO.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby charliepanayi » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:57 pm UTC

Aikanaro wrote:
Spoiler:
Group me in with those who are annoyed with how he essentially betrayed Old Amy. Way I see things, he has two Amys, two friends who he has sworn to protect. He can either 1: Let one of them suffer for 36 years, or 2: Let the other one cease to exist, which she clearly considers tantamount to death, and he doesn't deny. Why should Old Amy be any less deserving of saving than new Amy? The thing is, this way he gets to at least pretend his mistakes never happened. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they instead bring back Old Amy and make her be the astronaut. A person who swore to always protect her not only abandoned her for 36 years, but then after that promised to save her and at least take her with him, and then slammed the door in her face after giving her false hope.


Spoiler:
Group me in with those who liked the Doctor having to be harsh and making a tough choice. I have no idea how people can think he made the wrong decision anyway.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ArgonV » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:13 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Then again, it could be argued that he saved Amy from 36 years of suffering (it was obvious she wasn't happy) and, depending on the timey-wimeyness of the situation, she might not have ever existed, being a paradox and all.
Of course, that raises the question if erasing someone from history is equal to actually killing them. However, if that'd be the case, then everytime you make a major life-decision you erase a potential you from history. For instance, if you go and study law instead of chemistry, you'll erase lawyer!you instead of scientist!you.

Anyway, if I'd been in the Doctor's position, I'd have made the same decision. Not just for Amy, but also for Rory. Else he'd have 36 years less with the woman he waited 2000 years for.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:14 pm UTC

charliepanayi wrote:
Aikanaro wrote:
Spoiler:
Group me in with those who are annoyed with how he essentially betrayed Old Amy. Way I see things, he has two Amys, two friends who he has sworn to protect. He can either 1: Let one of them suffer for 36 years, or 2: Let the other one cease to exist, which she clearly considers tantamount to death, and he doesn't deny. Why should Old Amy be any less deserving of saving than new Amy? The thing is, this way he gets to at least pretend his mistakes never happened. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they instead bring back Old Amy and make her be the astronaut. A person who swore to always protect her not only abandoned her for 36 years, but then after that promised to save her and at least take her with him, and then slammed the door in her face after giving her false hope.

Spoiler:
Group me in with those who liked the Doctor having to be harsh and making a tough choice. I have no idea how people can think he made the wrong decision anyway.

Spoiler:
Agreed. The doctor is at his greatest when he is making tough decisions. And what other decision could he have made? He couldn't have saved both, and this way he saved someone from 40 years of misery. Him betraying old amy is nasty, but again, what other choice did he have?

From the ending it is pretty clear as well that old Amy saw it coming, and went along anyway, party hoping to manage to get on the tardis, but also because of her love for Rory. So she certainly won't come back to kill the doctor, because she's ultimately at peace with what happened.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Aikanaro » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:24 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I'm sorry, but I disagree: He chose the easy way. He gets to pretend what he did to Old Amy doesn't matter, since she no longer ever existed, and meanwhile he has his happy shiny Young Amy who he protected. Furthermore, in putting Rory's hand on the door lock, he gets to try and absolve himself of a little more guilt, by pretending that Rory is just as guilty of locking her out as he (the Doctor) is. His words at the end are particularly telling: "I said I'd save her, and there she is; Safe." He smiles as he says this, as if to shrug off that anything bad happened at all, since according to the time stream, nothing bad did happen.

EDIT: As I've said, he had two choices: Let someone live in isolation and danger for 36 years (bad), or let someone else have an eternity of being dead (arguably worse). And I strongly suspect that Old Amy, at least, still considers Death to be a worse outcome than the 36 years.

EDIT 2: Really, letting Old Amy in is the hard choice, because his mistake still exists, and he has to own up to it, instead of running from responsibility as is his usual wont.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby sugarhyped » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:13 am UTC

Spoiler:
I think I've misinterpreted what happened.
When young Amy was brought into old Amy's time stream, that is when old Amy should have been erased. The Tardis allowed the paradox to happen because it was small enough or something like that.
I thought the reason the Doctor didn't let old Amy in, was because the Tardis couldn't handle having two Amy's in it at once. Therefore when they left old Amy she was still alive and it was implied she would die from the kind-bots trying to fix her.
I could easily be wrong about that.

Regardless I think the Doctor was definitely selfish here. Old Amy didn't want to be erased from existence because it was tantamount to dying. She'd be willing to let Rory be happy with young Amy and travel the world herself.


I thought the Boy Terror's episode (no. 2) and the next one were the same one in the previews. I expected a seen with a clown throughout ep 2. Hopefully the next episode picks it back up at being awesome.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby NonSequitur » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:22 am UTC

Aikanaro wrote:
Spoiler:
Furthermore, in putting Rory's hand on the door lock, he gets to try and absolve himself of a little more guilt, by pretending that Rory is just as guilty of locking her out as he (the Doctor) is.

Spoiler:
This is the key (har!) point as I see it. And Rory's "you're turning me into you!" comment. No way that doesn't have some long-term fallout in the plot arc.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby xkcd follower » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:08 am UTC

Now I have an interesting alteration in the story. What would have happened if in the story Rory and Amy were switched?

Spoiler:
Imagine Rory as a much older version and hating AMy. Would it made the Doctor's overall choice different in the end?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:04 am UTC

Spoiler:
Regardless of what you feel about what the "hard" decision is, letting old Amy survive over young Amy is OBJECTIVELY worse. If Old Amy survived then someone went through pain and suffering for 40 years. If you let young Amy survive, then none of that happened and everyone is fine. There is none of this "The other person dies!" shit, because the other person IS Amy, there is no "other" person, it's the same person, and that 'possible future' of suffering, pain, and death no longer exists.

Plus, it's not like the doctor had the choice of who Rory brought into the Tardis first.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby bigglesworth » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:27 am UTC

Spoiler:
Me: Amy seems pretty angry at having to wait 36 years. How long did Rory wait for her?
My GF: Men can never do enough. Important lesson.
Me: I suppose he didn't have to age 36 years.
GF: He chose to wait, she didn't.


Thoughts?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jesse » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:50 am UTC

bigglesworth wrote:
Spoiler:
Me: Amy seems pretty angry at having to wait 36 years. How long did Rory wait for her?
My GF: Men can never do enough. Important lesson.
Me: I suppose he didn't have to age 36 years.
GF: He chose to wait, she didn't.


Thoughts?


Spoiler:
That's the thing, it's the choice. He knew how long he would have to wait, and he chose to do it. She expected to be rescued almost immediately, and instead waited 36 years.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:54 am UTC

It still would have been neat if he'd had the balls to bring that up when she was raging at him for not arriving earlier. Probably a bit too out of character though.

Spoiler:
How come the TARDIS was able to sustain the paradox for ten minutes in the facility, but couldn't manage a.couple of extra minutes with the Amys inside itself? Remember the season 3 finale where the Master turns the TARDIS into a paradox machine? Clearly it's capable of sustaining some pretty time bending stuff. One little grandfather paradox should be child's play.
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What would Baron Harkonnen do?


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