Doctor Whom

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sanguine
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby sanguine » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:35 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:And then something else Murray Gold's music rocks. The 11th Doctor's Theme is on par with some of the best soundtracks I've heard


I love you for posting that.

Otherwise - Loved the episode. ARGH, no DW until Christmas!
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby beyondweird » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:54 pm UTC

For now, I'm just going to squee. Lots and lots and lots. Stephen Moffat is a magificant, clever writer and I love him...especially:
Spoiler:
Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue


Still squeeing a lil :D
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby thecommabandit » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:08 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:And then something else Murray Gold's music rocks. The 11th Doctor's Theme is on par with some of the best soundtracks I've heard

Mass Effect 2 has some of the best music I've ever seen in a videogame. The standout for me isn't that track though. It's from 0:14 onwards of Jump Drive and most of Samara's theme. The bit with the sort of snake-charmer instruments and the winding, serpentine vocals literally sends chills down my spine. No, literally.

beyondweird wrote:For now, I'm just going to squee. Lots and lots and lots. Stephen Moffat is a magificant, clever writer and I love him...especially:
Spoiler:
Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue


Still squeeing a lil :D

That was fantastic. I loved that bit. Moffat took a few episodes to get going but I will not miss Davies.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby MysteryBall » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:00 pm UTC

Spoiler:
He got a Dalek to beg for mercy, there is nothing more I could ever want from an episode.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Whelan » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Spoiler:
WOULD YOU CARE FOR SOME TEA!?

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Persephonethinx » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:40 am UTC

Spoiler:
From the point that the Doctor just hopped out of time with a mop and a fez to Rory and Amy running off on an adventure in their wedding clothes, I was screaming with joy. Fortunately, no one was with me to be annoyed with my interruptions.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby aleflamedyud » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:26 am UTC

Spoiler:
Wait a minute. The entire chain of events was triggered by Van Gogh painting the TARDIS exploding, which made the Doctor go into the Pandorica and thereby miss the opportunity to prevent the TARDIS from exploding in the first place. While yes, Moffat is the master of the Stable Time Loop, I want to know why nobody could go back and break it by preventing the painting from existing or reaching the Doctor.

I think there's still something very involved and timey-wimey going on with "the silence".
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby sugarhyped » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:47 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:
Spoiler:
Wait a minute. The entire chain of events was triggered by Van Gogh painting the TARDIS exploding, which made the Doctor go into the Pandorica and thereby miss the opportunity to prevent the TARDIS from exploding in the first place. While yes, Moffat is the master of the Stable Time Loop, I want to know why nobody could go back and break it by preventing the painting from existing or reaching the Doctor.

I think there's still something very involved and timey-wimey going on with "the silence".


Also
Spoiler:
If Rory hadn't released the Doctor with the screwdriver the Doctor wouldn't have been around to give Rory the screwdriver to release him in the first place. The universe could have easily ended and nothing happened.

The silence voice and tardis exploding should be for next season.


Persephonethinx wrote:
Spoiler:
From the point that the Doctor just hopped out of time with a mop and a fez to Rory and Amy running off on an adventure in their wedding clothes, I was screaming with joy. Fortunately, no one was with me to be annoyed with my interruptions.


Spoiler:
From Amy coming out of the Pandorica to Rory and Amy running off with the Doctor I was screaming for joy (on the inside. I'm not really a screamer.)

I had to watch the Doctor talking to Amelia sleeping again.
"Some thing old, something new, something borrowed, something blue."
That was awesome.

It dont know if the Doctor should wear a fez next season. It doesn't go with the outfit.


One thing someone had predicted earlier, I forget who, was not really explained. Although it might not need to be.
Spoiler:
Someone mentioned there were birds chirping in the first episode very much like in the dream one. I went back and listened and thought so too.
I guess Rory's badge that episode was a production error? Even though they zoomed in on it.


ArgonV wrote:And then something else Murray Gold's music rocks. The 11th Doctor's Theme is on par with some of the best soundtracks I've heard


I liked 11's theme best, but I probably relate it to emotional moments on the show so... I would totally play a video game if I heard it had a good soundtrack though. So good stuff sir.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Persephonethinx » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:03 am UTC

Spoiler:
So because Amy and Rory remember the Doctor at the end, I'm assuming that they remember all of their now non-existent adventures and the character development that they gained. So does this mean that Rory is mentally over 2000 years old?
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby sugarhyped » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:21 am UTC

Persephonethinx wrote:
Spoiler:
So because Amy and Rory remember the Doctor at the end, I'm assuming that they remember all of their now non-existent adventures and the character development that they gained. So does this mean that Rory is mentally over 2000 years old?


Yeah when the Doctor came back Rory mentioned
Spoiler:
being plastic.


Edit: It makes me wonder
Spoiler:
Is the Rory that got married an auton or human with the memories of being an auton?
Last edited by sugarhyped on Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:06 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:50 am UTC

Spoiler:
Great episode, loved it. I was able to see what was coming for a lot of it--using the Pandorica to rebuild the universe, and then the "something old" thing, which was a brilliant wonderful thing that was perfectly done.

Anyway, I don't see how Amy's adventure's would be "nonexistent" now. Pulling the Doctor back into the timestream presumably reset them into reality.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:19 am UTC

Loved the episode, I think it pushed this series over those of 10th.

Spoiler:
Looks like the guess that "timey-wimey" would get the doctor out was correct.

How were there star cults though if stars had never existed? Whatever, it was worth it just to have Richard Dawkins leading a cult of any sort.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby thecommabandit » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:26 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:
Spoiler:
Wait a minute. The entire chain of events was triggered by Van Gogh painting the TARDIS exploding, which made the Doctor go into the Pandorica and thereby miss the opportunity to prevent the TARDIS from exploding in the first place. While yes, Moffat is the master of the Stable Time Loop, I want to know why nobody could go back and break it by preventing the painting from existing or reaching the Doctor.

I think there's still something very involved and timey-wimey going on with "the silence".

Because it's a closed causal loop. You can't break them, they always happen. If anyone had ever stopped them or was able to stop them, they wouldn't exist. Ergo, closed causal loops are 'fixed points in time', as the Doctor says.


eSOANEM wrote:Loved the episode, I think it pushed this series over those of 10th.

Spoiler:
Looks like the guess that "timey-wimey" would get the doctor out was correct.

How were there star cults though if stars had never existed? Whatever, it was worth it just to have Richard Dawkins leading a cult of any sort.

Probably from people who saw/read things from more than two thousand years ago. Because before then, stars would have existed.




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Re: Doctor Who

Postby sanguine » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:01 am UTC

sugarhyped wrote:Edit: It makes me wonder
Spoiler:
Is the Rory that got married an auton or human with the memories of being an auton?

Spoiler:
I'm very sure that he's human. After all, he never got killed, the alliance never happened, and thus he never got turned into an Auton. It's all in their heads...

(Also, imagine consuming your marriage with a plastic man. Eugh.
Even though Amanda Palmer might think otherwise... "ma-de of plas-tic and elas-tic, he is rug-ged and long-las-ting, who could ever, ever ask for more?")
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby keozen » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:45 am UTC

sanguine wrote:
sugarhyped wrote:Edit: It makes me wonder
Spoiler:
Is the Rory that got married an auton or human with the memories of being an auton?

Spoiler:
I'm very sure that he's human. After all, he never got killed, the alliance never happened, and thus he never got turned into an Auton. It's all in their heads...

(Also, imagine consuming your marriage with a plastic man. Eugh.
Even though Amanda Palmer might think otherwise... "ma-de of plas-tic and elas-tic, he is rug-ged and long-las-ting, who could ever, ever ask for more?")

Spoiler:
Yeah I'm pretty sure he's human with the memories of being an auton, altho that brings in a new dynamic for next series..... experience wise (although limited to knowledge of earth) he's older than the Doctor twofold.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby no-genius » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:35 am UTC

keozen wrote:
Spoiler:
Yeah I'm pretty sure he's human with the memories of being an auton, altho that brings in a new dynamic for next series..... experience wise (although limited to knowledge of earth) he's older than the Doctor twofold.

Spoiler:
but the Doctor always lies! Aside from the difficulty of keeping track of your age if you're a time-traveller - and Eight spent ages in a parallel universe in an audio drama.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:40 pm UTC

thecommabandit wrote:Probably from people who saw/read things from more than two thousand years ago. Because before then, stars would have existed.


Spoiler:
all the stars blew up "at all points in time" so they would never have existed so they couldn't have heard about them from previous people.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:42 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Nothing is ever truly forgotten, remember? :P
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Daojia » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:12 pm UTC

Gaaaah. Timey-wimey indeed. Moffat, I don't know whether to kiss you or smack you on the mouth and charge you for some aspirin. I can't fucking wait till Christmas!
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:17 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:
Spoiler:
Nothing is ever truly forgotten, remember? :P


I forgot that, thanks.

Daojia wrote:Gaaaah. Timey-wimey indeed. Moffat, I don't know whether to kiss you or smack you on the mouth and charge you for some aspirin. I can't fucking wait till Christmas!


Seconded.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby You, sir, name? » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:27 pm UTC

This is arguably the best Doctor Who monster ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD-2htbjNjw
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby PeterCai » Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:52 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:This is arguably the best Doctor Who monster ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD-2htbjNjw


i lol'd so hard....

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby thecommabandit » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:45 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
thecommabandit wrote:Probably from people who saw/read things from more than two thousand years ago. Because before then, stars would have existed.


Spoiler:
all the stars blew up "at all points in time" so they would never have existed so they couldn't have heard about them from previous people.

So we say that is what happened. Amy remembered them. Why not other people? Richard Dawkins did/would, apparently.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Jesse » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:40 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Well, wasn't a major point of this episode that stuff is never completely gone from the memory, so there are a few people who 'remember' stars despite them never having been there in their timeline.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:53 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:
Spoiler:
Nothing is ever truly forgotten, remember? :P
Like I said :P
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Daojia » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:48 am UTC

As an aside, has anyone played the interactive adventure game whatsit? It's for free download in the UK, and what with them being horrific colonial-minded snobs, I can't access it from Penal Colony #248-ZZRT
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby keozen » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:10 am UTC

I've played a bit of the first one (not had time to sit down for a proper play through) basically it's not bad but it's far from brilliant, good for a freebie (if you live in the UK) I wouldn't pay money for it.

I'll give a full report when I've had time to play more.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:28 am UTC

Jesse wrote:
Spoiler:
Well, wasn't a major point of this episode that stuff is never completely gone from the memory, so there are a few people who 'remember' stars despite them never having been there in their timeline.


Spoiler:
I thought it was more that Amy was special (partly due to growing up with a crack in her wall) and so stuff was never gone from her memory, but that does make sense.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:20 am UTC

keozen wrote:I've played a bit of the first one (not had time to sit down for a proper play through) basically it's not bad but it's far from brilliant, good for a freebie (if you live in the UK) I wouldn't pay money for it.

I'll give a full report when I've had time to play more.


Yeah it's okay as a freebie, but it has a few technical problems. For a start, whenever I start it up, it does something to my sound drivers. So not only can I not hear voices in the game, when I quit the game, all sounds are turned off, and I have to reboot my computer to fix it.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Jesse » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:43 am UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
Jesse wrote:
Spoiler:
Well, wasn't a major point of this episode that stuff is never completely gone from the memory, so there are a few people who 'remember' stars despite them never having been there in their timeline.


Spoiler:
I thought it was more that Amy was special (partly due to growing up with a crack in her wall) and so stuff was never gone from her memory, but that does make sense.


Spoiler:
Don't get me wrong, Amy was still special in having the entire universe inside her head, but remember the stone Daleks and the like, they weren't just because of Amy, they were 'shadows of a past that never was' or something.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Plasma Man » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:23 am UTC

Spoiler:
Well, time was collapsing in on itself, remember? It was just that the museum was at the centre of it, so the things around it were last to be erased. Presumably, if the Doctor hadn't managed to reset the universe, they would have all just winked out of existence.

I thought this was a really good two-parter and finale. Tense, emotional, plot twists... it had it all. Even intelligent use of time travel, which I didn't expect. My favourite moments were the creation of all the time loops, River's facing down the Dalek and "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue". Oh, and River and Amy's reaction to the fez.
The end did make me laugh "An Egyptian goddess loose on the Orient Express... IN SPACE." I think it will be the inexpicably cockney Liz Ten for the Christmas episode. I'm also hoping we get more of River next series - that seemed to be implied near the end.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Daojia » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:50 pm UTC

Right. My head has stopped spinning and I finally get to voice the niggling thought at the back of my head concerning the final, and some of Moffatt's eps in general:

Spoiler:
Closed time loops, though immensely clever and entertaining to watch, are universally applicable and more-or-less risk free. 5x12's cliffhanger shows a dead Amy, destroyed TARDIS, an Auton Rory and The Doctor in the greatest prison ever built. Despite this, He breaks out of it in the first 20 minutes thanks to the fact that he can let himself out, provided he has the means to travel in time1. As a Time Lord, he's usually able to.
As impossibly cool as this is, it does tend to provide a universal solution to any problem. You simply wait, let yourself be freed (by yourself) and save yourself once you have access to your TARDIS/Vortex Manipulator/Space Camel. Provided that there's some access to time travel technology, your safety is more or less assured.
I mean, obviously there are risks; if any point in the loop is broken then the whole thing falls apart and you die pretty comprehensively. But it does look like a pretty convenient sonic-screwdriver/universal band-aid to any drastic problem.

1: This has been subject to restrictions, firstly that the vortex manipulator was far more accurate in a universe that only consists of one shrinking planet, and secondly that both Moffatt and RTD have said time travel without a capsule is bad for you. So, it's not likely to happen all the time.

For the record, this is pedantry on a massive scale, I absolutely adored the episode and feel free to shoot this criticism full of holes.

Spoiler:
Also, poor Rory. You're (at best mentally, at worst physically) a 2000 year old Centurion/Auton who dragged the Pandorica all over the world, survived the London blitz, and shot a Dalek into submission with a ray-gun that came from your hand. Stop looking so worried! You're badass. Trust me.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Diadem » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:53 pm UTC

Absolutely awesome season.

At first I didn't really like the 11th doctor compared to the 10th. But he's starting to grow on me. To be fair I initially didn't like the 10th compared to the 9th either. I suppose new doctors take some time getting used to.

But the season is really awesome. Some very impressive episodes. And Amy is a very good companion. Though Bad Wolf is still most kick-ass, she comes close :)
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:18 pm UTC

Plasma Man wrote:
Spoiler:
Well, time was collapsing in on itself, remember? It was just that the museum was at the centre of it, so the things around it were last to be erased. Presumably, if the Doctor hadn't managed to reset the universe, they would have all just winked out of existence.

I thought this was a really good two-parter and finale. Tense, emotional, plot twists... it had it all. Even intelligent use of time travel, which I didn't expect. My favourite moments were the creation of all the time loops, River's facing down the Dalek and "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue". Oh, and River and Amy's reaction to the fez.
The end did make me laugh "An Egyptian goddess loose on the Orient Express... IN SPACE." I think it will be the inexpicably cockney Liz Ten for the Christmas episode. I'm also hoping we get more of River next series - that seemed to be implied near the end.
I do hope Liz Ten is in the Christmas episode; she was one of my favourite characters so far.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:27 pm UTC

Daojia wrote:Right. My head has stopped spinning and I finally get to voice the niggling thought at the back of my head concerning the final, and some of Moffatt's eps in general:

Spoiler:
Closed time loops, though immensely clever and entertaining to watch, are universally applicable and more-or-less risk free. 5x12's cliffhanger shows a dead Amy, destroyed TARDIS, an Auton Rory and The Doctor in the greatest prison ever built. Despite this, He breaks out of it in the first 20 minutes thanks to the fact that he can let himself out, provided he has the means to travel in time1. As a Time Lord, he's usually able to.
As impossibly cool as this is, it does tend to provide a universal solution to any problem. You simply wait, let yourself be freed (by yourself) and save yourself once you have access to your TARDIS/Vortex Manipulator/Space Camel. Provided that there's some access to time travel technology, your safety is more or less assured.
I mean, obviously there are risks; if any point in the loop is broken then the whole thing falls apart and you die pretty comprehensively. But it does look like a pretty convenient sonic-screwdriver/universal band-aid to any drastic problem.

1: This has been subject to restrictions, firstly that the vortex manipulator was far more accurate in a universe that only consists of one shrinking planet, and secondly that both Moffatt and RTD have said time travel without a capsule is bad for you. So, it's not likely to happen all the time.

For the record, this is pedantry on a massive scale, I absolutely adored the episode and feel free to shoot this criticism full of holes.

Spoiler:
Well, you're not supposed to go back into your own timeline (hence the screwdrivers making a sparks-fly&smoke), so you'd need someone to help you escape the pandorica, supposing you had a method at all, and nobody seemed to suspect rory would still be knocking about for a while
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby sunami » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:41 pm UTC

LE4dGOLEM wrote:
Spoiler:
Well, you're not supposed to go back into your own timeline (hence the screwdrivers making a sparks-fly&smoke), so you'd need someone to help you escape the pandorica, supposing you had a method at all, and nobody seemed to suspect rory would still be knocking about for a while

Spoiler:
So why can Amy touch her younger self and the Doctor touch his 12 minutes older self GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
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TaintedDeity
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:50 pm UTC

Spoiler:
That's what I thought but I guess there's a difference between objects and people.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Persephonethinx » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:54 pm UTC

sunami wrote:
LE4dGOLEM wrote:
Spoiler:
Well, you're not supposed to go back into your own timeline (hence the screwdrivers making a sparks-fly&smoke), so you'd need someone to help you escape the pandorica, supposing you had a method at all, and nobody seemed to suspect rory would still be knocking about for a while

Spoiler:
So why can Amy touch her younger self and the Doctor touch his 12 minutes older self GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.


Spoiler:
Perhaps the universe is so screwy by that point that not even Blinovitch is bothering to take effect.
"The Universe is big and it's vast and complicated, and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles..." -The Eleventh Doctor

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:45 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I assumed it had to do with them using a different method of time travel. The Doctor did describe it as "messy" I believe.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Various Varieties » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:11 pm UTC

Plasma Man wrote:
Spoiler:
The end did make me laugh "An Egyptian goddess loose on the Orient Express... IN SPACE." I think it will be the inexpicably cockney Liz Ten for the Christmas episode.

Perhaps this link wasn't consciously intended when The Beast Below was written and cast, but I couldn't help but think of Liz Ten's cockney accent as a reference to those tabloid reports from a few years ago that said that SCIENTISTS!!! had ANALYSED!!! Elizabeth II's Christmas speeches and found that over the past 50 years her accent has gradually become less RP and more cockney. (Here are two of the first Google search results about it. Yeah, one of those is the Mail. Sorry.) The assumption being that if that trend continues, by the time of The Beast Below you'd end up with a monarch that speaks like Liz Ten.


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