Doctor Whom

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crowey
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby crowey » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:29 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I really liked it, interesting character development for Amy too, hinting that she'll remember Rory eventually.
I also liked the "you're from holland, like me" about the accents.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby EmilyR » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:41 am UTC

Kind *meh*.
Increasingly only reason to watch is for Karen Gillan's legs :) She's sooooooooooooooo on my "to stalk & seduce over the summer" list :)

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Jesse » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:53 am UTC

I really didn't enjoy this one, I love that they got Richard Curtis to write the script, but it was also telling that Richard Curtis wrote the script. It never felt like a Doctor Who episode to me.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Lioness » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:24 am UTC

This gets filed under the list of favourite episodes.

Sure, it wasn't really like Dr Who, but it was nice. It was beautiful. It was moving. And it was funny. I loved some of the little bits of dialogue, especially:

Doctor: "Right. Amy, Rory-oops" (can't find the exact quote...)
Amy: "What?"

Doctor: "You scared the living daylights out of me!"
Amy: "Sorry. I got bored"

Amy: "I'm not really the marrying sort..." (yeah, so we figured)

Interesting how the subject of his suicide affects Amy. I'm debating as to whether it's because she really likes him, or because of something in her past. Her parents, perhaps. Or her aunt.
Interesting sort of parallel between the Doctor and the sunflowers.

I think it was more of a character development episode than a 'hoshit monsters' one. We got to see a lot more of Amy and the Doctor interacting with each other, as well as with other people. The ending was perhaps a bit sweet, and the music a bit overpowering at times. But I cried (though I'm a softie), so it can't have been that bad.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby phlip » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:53 am UTC

sugarhyped wrote:About the newest episode with Van Gogh. Do all Brits pronounce his name Goth?

Wikipedia wrote:The pronunciation of "Van Gogh" varies in both English and Dutch. In English it is pronounced /ˌvæn ˈɡɒx/ or sometimes /ˌvæn ˈɡɒf/, especially in the UK, or /ˌvæn ˈɡoʊ/ with a silent gh, especially in the US.

For those that don't speak IPA, in order, those are: rhyming with eg the Scottish word "loch", with this sound (how the museum guide pronounces it in the ep); like "goff" (how pretty much everyone else pronounces it in the ep); like the English word "go" (which is more a US pronunciation). The WP link also has details on the Dutch pronunciation.

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enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Various Varieties » Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:41 pm UTC

sugarhyped wrote:
Whelan wrote:Has anyone else tried the game they plugged at the end? I tried it but this laptop isn't really up to scratch.

I'm in the states and on a mac so I doubt I'll get to play it. :(

Mac version available in the UK: June 15
US release: early July (but it won't be free)


My comments on the game, copied from a post I made here:

I wrote:- Opening and closing credits matching the TV show – fantastic.
- The reuse of environments in ruined/pristine states was clearly down to budget, but I quite liked it: gave it a bit of a Zelda OOT/Sonic CD good future/bad future feel. Ideally, they’ll build on that in future episodes, because any good time travel game should give the player the feeling that their actions in the past make changes to the environment in the future.
- Even more so than most licensed games, this gives us a great chance for us to compare actors’ voiceover performances with their live-action ones. Both of their lines sound more stilted than in the TV show. The animation doesn’t really capture his mannerisms – occasionally raising his hand to the back of his head isn’t enough!
- Best-looking bit of the game: looking out of the domed windows with the rain splashing down them.
- For some reason I found it really funny when the game flashed up “OBJECTIVE: Think of a plan”!
- The Doctor says “I’m so sorry” at one point…
- Daleks yelling “My vision is impaired!” – good! Daleks repeating it on a continuous loop – bad.
- In the bit near the end where
Spoiler:
you have to navigate around the blind Daleks' gunfire. I'm not quite sure how I made it past the stream of lasers blocking the slope - it wasn't clear what pattern there was to where they hit, so I'm not sure if my getting past that bit by just running straight forward was a fluke.

- The electric maze puzzles were nasty due to the way one mistake will reset the position of all the items, rather than just the one you buzzed.
- I liked the idea of the rewiring minigame – very similar to the one in Timesplitters Future Perfect, which I also liked. But as someone on the game's Rock Paper Shotgun comments thread said, its grid layout didn’t work very well with a mouse – letting you use the keyboard would be better.
- Stealth bits were nasty. But at least the Commandos-style vision cones were clear and consistent, which is better than some stealth games manage.
- Conversation trees are really basic and pretty pointless. I suppose I’ve been spoiled by the likes of Monkey Island to be able to keep pestering NPCs with comedy questions…
- I’ll definitely play through any more of these that they make, but hopefully future episodes will have more interesting puzzles and less frequent stealth sections. But I don’t think I’ll be playing through this one again – even with the incentive of different collectible cards!


As for Vincent and the Doctor: good episode!
Spoiler:
As Richard Curtis acknowledged in Confidential, there was a danger that he might have focused too much on doing a drama about a real-life historical figure, rather than telling a Doctor Who story. It was definitely more skewed towards the former than I expected, but I think that was a good thing – it made a change from the way earlier Great Artist episodes of New Who (Dickens/Shakespeare/Agatha Christie) balanced their stories. I think the fact the episode was so different from anything else in New Who was the episode's big advantage, even if certain things may not have been to everyone's taste (such as its emotional tone (with lots of hugging!), and the fact that the Doctor didn't just tell someone what their reputation will be in the future, but actually brought them forwards in time to show them). Maybe Bill Nighy’s speech at the end about van Gogh being one of the greatest men who ever lived was laying it on a bit thick, but generally I thought the episode was really good.

I like the fact that Doctor Who is a series that can do a slower-paced episode like this where its monster is defeated earlier in the episode than we might expect. (Speaking of the monster, glad the episode provided a reason why the characters actually stood the slightest chance against an invisible enemy!)

I liked the touch of the flyers stuck to the TARDIS in the 19th century burning off when it arrives at the museum. The rear-view mirror thingy was a good gadget too.

I also loved the line about the Sonic Screwdriver: “From now on I’m only going to be using it for screwing in screws!” :)

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby GraphiteGirl » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:14 pm UTC

Re the museum visit
Spoiler:
I thought it was a clever way to talk about Van Gogh's depression; even though his anxieties about his work had been somewhat assuaged, that didn't magically cure him, and he still committed suicide. There was a bit earlier in the episode when the Doctor tried to get him out of bed and feeling good in a quite perfunctory way, and Van Gogh wasn't having any of it. I loved that, although it seemed strange that the Doctor, who's experienced some pretty stark psychological lows, would ever think that "come on, fresh air will be good for you, get up" was going to be remotely useful.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:21 pm UTC

Oh oh! I remembered why this episode wasn't super cool in my mind. The Doctor and Van Gogh were totally acting like heroes and trying to protect Amy. At one point the Doctor even said something like 'It could come back and hurt Amy'
I thought that was pretty poopy. She's proven herself pretty capable, I would've thought The Doctor would be less silly like that.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Whelan » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:27 pm UTC

Yeah but the Doctor's always like that with his companions.
Spoiler:
Especially so after he loses one.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:33 pm UTC

It just felt less like protection and caring and more like Amy being shit.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Magnanimous » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:18 pm UTC

Spoiler:
My favorite part was the portrayal of Gogh's depression... That was really well done. A lot of people just think depression is "oh, I'm really sad", but it can be a lot more complicated.

The song at the end was a bit much, though. (Hey guys, let's turn it into a rock opera.)

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Giant Speck » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:51 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Does anyone else think that because of the Doctor and Amy's (especially Amy's) presence in Van Gogh's time period, the reason for which Van Gogh committed suicide was altered?
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby You, sir, name? » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:55 pm UTC

Giant Speck wrote:
Spoiler:
Does anyone else think that because of the Doctor and Amy's (especially Amy's) presence in Van Gogh's time period, the reason for which Van Gogh committed suicide was altered?


Spoiler:
In both pasts he committed suicide because he was suffering from clinical depression (which is not the same as being sad because life's got you down)
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby michaelandjimi » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:46 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:It just felt less like protection and caring and more like Amy being shit.
Spoiler:
Possibly another example of the Doctor being all supernice and protective after the whole Rory being erased from existence thing.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:13 am UTC

You're probably right, I don't remember what was said exactly.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:41 am UTC

They don't name Doctor Who episodes like they used to.

"Blink" would have been called "The statues of evil"
"The Beast Below" would have been called "The spaceship of death"
"The Idiot's Lantern" would have been called "The TV of doom"

and so forth.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby phlip » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:34 am UTC

Hmm... this seems like a job for statistics!

Proportion of show names that contain "curse", "fatal", "dead", "death", "doom", or "evil"
Hartnell: 0 of 29 (0%)
Troughton: 2 of 21 (10%) - The Evil of the Daleks, The Seeds of Death
Pertwee: 5 of 24 (21%) - The Ambassadors of Death, The Mind of Evil, The Curse of Peladon, The Green Death, Death to the Daleks
Baker: 6 of 42 (14%) - Planet Of Evil, The Seeds of Doom, The Deadly Assassin, The Face of Evil, The Robots of Death, City of Death
Davison: 1 of 20 (5%) - Four to Doomsday
Baker: 0 of 11 (0%)
McCoy: 1 of 12 (8%) - Curse of Fenric
McGann: 0 of 0 (Umm...%)
Atkinson: 3 of 1 (300%) - The Curse of Fatal Death
Eccleston: 1 of 13 (10%) - The Unquiet Dead
Tennant: 3 of 49 (6%) - Doomsday, Forest of the Dead, Planet of the Dead
Smith: 0 of 10 (0%)

Does seem like we're slipping... but a whole lot.

(Note: for doctors 1 through 7, these are serial counts, but for 9 through 11 they're episode counts... since serials in the new series don't have names, but episodes in the old one often didn't have names. For Hartnell, which had both, I went with the serial names, since that's all I had in an easily-searchable format... the episode names for those do have several "of Death" and "of Doom" instances in there.)

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enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Magnanimous » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:51 am UTC

Or try counting the number of episodes titled "(The/A) <noun> of (the/a) <noun>". Hartnell had at least 37 out of 134 episodes named that way, so 27.6%.
Spoiler:
The Cave of Skulls
The Forest of Fear
The Edge of Destruction
The Brink of Disaster
The Roof of the World
The Sea of Death
The Snows of Terror
The Temple of Evil
The Warriors of Death
The Bride of Sacrifice
The Day of Darkness
A Land of Fear
The Tyrant of France
A Change of Identity
A Bargain of Necessity
Planet of Giants
Day of Reckoning
The End of Tomorrow
Crater of Needles
The Knight of Jaffa
The Wheel of Fortune
The Dimensions of Time
The Death of Time
The Death of Doctor Who
The Planet of Decision
A Battle of Wits
Temple of Secrets
Death of a Spy
Horse of Destruction
Day of Armageddon
Coronas of the Sun
The Feast of Steven
Destruction of Time
War of God
Priest of Death
Bell of Doom
The Hall of Dolls

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Lioness » Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:55 am UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:Oh oh! I remembered why this episode wasn't super cool in my mind. The Doctor and Van Gogh were totally acting like heroes and trying to protect Amy. At one point the Doctor even said something like 'It could come back and hurt Amy'
I thought that was pretty poopy. She's proven herself pretty capable, I would've thought The Doctor would be less silly like that.



See, I thought that was him actually trying to protect van Gogh, but just putting it in terms that would get van Gogh to do what he said. Compare "You two stay here! I'll do this by myself!" to "I'll go play with the monster. Vincent, I need you to look after Amy for me, kay?"
van Gogh would have followed him if he'd just run off trying to be all brave and singular.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:59 am UTC

That bit was pretty fine by me, it was the bit in Van Gogh's back garden.
I can't remember any more and I'm at school so I can't check on iplayer. Maybe I'll look later.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Dobblesworth » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:30 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I didn't like the referencing overload across that episode...
- Oooh look he's wearing that straw hat
- Oooh look they've built the set for his bedroom to mimic the out-of-perspective depiction of a room that would clearly collapse under real construction
- Oooh look could that be the cafe he might be in?
Until we got to the fun stuff with the monster-of-the-week, I really struggled getting through that episode with Doctor and Amy acting all fanboy/fangirl at every single implication of a piece that will go up in the Musee d'Orsay - and aren't most of his stuff in the Netherlands official gallery with the other Dutch Masters? I know art goes on tour, but his entire collection upping stakes to Paris?

Yay Bill Nighy.

Clever way they kinda reverse Vampires in Venice with the effect of viewing the enemy and mirrors. Perhaps since it's the first ep sans Rory [thank Moffat], and that was the first ep con Rory.

I think what I want more out of this series are "easter egg" cracks. Not the blindingly obvious un-noticed Beast Below/Victory of the Daleks appearances, but subtle reminders like if for instance the monster's blood trickled out and its path mimicked the crack.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Whelan » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:46 pm UTC

Magnanimous wrote:Or try counting the number of episodes titled "(The/A) <noun> of (the/a) <noun>". Hartnell had at least 37 out of 134 episodes named that way, so 27.6%.

Not Hartnell, but my personal favourite (Which fits both criteria by the way) The Curse of Fatal Death.
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TaintedDeity wrote:And all I get is this tame space dragon. Where's my recognition?!
A tame dragon is its own reward.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Veora » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:01 pm UTC

i baw'd my eyes out at the end of the episode with Van Gogh. im such a freakin' softie. :oops:
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby ArgonV » Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:49 pm UTC

So do we Dutch really sound that Scottish? I know I can put on the accent to fool people who know not too much about it, but I always thought a Dutch accent sounds pretty horrible.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Whelan » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:15 pm UTC

That sounds more French than Scottish. I think it's just an oddity of the TARDIS' babelfish. When Donna tried speaking Latin in Pompeii the blokey heard what he thought was celtic, so I just assumed it was similar to that.
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Weeks wrote:
TaintedDeity wrote:And all I get is this tame space dragon. Where's my recognition?!
A tame dragon is its own reward.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:42 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:So do we Dutch really sound that Scottish? I know I can put on the accent to fool people who know not too much about it, but I always thought a Dutch accent sounds pretty horrible.


I don't think Dutch sounds Scottish at all really, I think the main reason they did that was they had an actor who looked a tiny bit like Van Gogh but who happened to have a Scottish accent so they decided to lampshade it by saying Amy sounds Dutch to him.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby aleflamedyud » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:43 am UTC

Magnanimous wrote:
Spoiler:
My favorite part was the portrayal of Gogh's depression... That was really well done. A lot of people just think depression is "oh, I'm really sad", but it can be a lot more complicated.

The song at the end was a bit much, though. (Hey guys, let's turn it into a rock opera.)

From the episode, it looked like Van Gogh had true blue bipolar disorder. You don't get better from that without serious therapy and damn well possibly medication.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Lioness » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:40 pm UTC

Dobblesworth wrote:
I think what I want more out of this series are "easter egg" cracks. Not the blindingly obvious un-noticed Beast Below/Victory of the Daleks appearances, but subtle reminders like if for instance the monster's blood trickled out and its path mimicked the crack.


Well, there's this tree...

TBH, I was expecting the crack to appear, just subtly, when the night sky transformed into the painting. Like, there for a second, but then morphed again just after.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Dobblesworth » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:35 pm UTC

Lioness wrote:
Dobblesworth wrote:
I think what I want more out of this series are "easter egg" cracks. Not the blindingly obvious un-noticed Beast Below/Victory of the Daleks appearances, but subtle reminders like if for instance the monster's blood trickled out and its path mimicked the crack.


Well, there's this tree...

TBH, I was expecting the crack to appear, just subtly, when the night sky transformed into the painting. Like, there for a second, but then morphed again just after.

Going back to Vampires I'd had a thought about one scene that may have had it, but consensus dismissed it
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Whelan » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:50 pm UTC

Yeah, I'm really not convinced about that tree. The cloud was pretty close but the tree...
Spoiler:
drwhocrack.jpg
"I like to be understood whenever I open my mouth; I have a horror of blinding people with science"- Richard Dawkins
Weeks wrote:
TaintedDeity wrote:And all I get is this tame space dragon. Where's my recognition?!
A tame dragon is its own reward.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Lioness » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:09 am UTC

Whelan wrote:Yeah, I'm really not convinced about that tree. The cloud was pretty close but the tree...
Spoiler:
drwhocrack.jpg


I didn't think of overlaying the crack there...I did notice the one in Vampires though...

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby keozen » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:33 am UTC

LOVED the episode. It was a nice change of pace from others and I think the focus on Vincent was nice with a very well written script.

I also liked the hints that the memories of Rory are at the very least still with Amy on an unconscious level (crying, etc). I think between that and the Doctor making the odd "Amy and Rory, Umm whoops" slip she may turn round and start asking the Doctor what happened soon enough.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby You, sir, name? » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:40 am UTC

The Talons of Weng-Chiang has hilarious dialogue in it. It cracks me up every time I hear it.

The Doctor: You don't happen to have an elephant gun, do you?
Litefoot: Elephants? (laughs) Why on earth do you want an elephant gun?
The Doctor: We're about to embark on a very dangerous mission.
Litefoot: Well, I have a Chinese fowling piece if that's any good. Used for duck mainly.
The Doctor: Made in Birmingham, yes, that's the main requirement, do you have a boat?
[...]
The Doctor: I've always enjoyed messing about in boats.
Litefoot: I think this entire enterprise is extremely rash and ill-considered.
The Doctor: My dear Litefoot, I have a lantern, a pair of waders and possibly the most fearsome piece of hand-artillery in the whole of England. What could possibly go wrong?!
Litefoot: Well that, for a start. It hasn't been fired for 50 years. If you try to use it, it will probably explode in your face.
The Doctor: Explode? Unthinkable. It was made in Birmingham.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby MysteryBall » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:00 pm UTC

Is it me, or were the glasses in The Hungry Earth not just sunglasses, but the new 3D glasses in cinemas? In which case, reference back to Army of Ghosts/Doomsday. I jumped at that moment, though I only just thought to mention it... :|

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby keozen » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:14 pm UTC

I'm just going to leave this here:
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Whelan » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:19 pm UTC

I really hope he's in costume, because if he chose to wear that shirt then it's one more reason for me to hate Matt Smith.
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TaintedDeity wrote:And all I get is this tame space dragon. Where's my recognition?!
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby crowey » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:27 pm UTC

it was for a press thing, but I got the impression it was his own clothes.

I quite like it though :oops:

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bigglesworth
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby bigglesworth » Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:07 pm UTC

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that shirt. Walk down a high street and you'll see far, far worse.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby MysteryBall » Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:20 pm UTC

Regarding the episode:

Spoiler:
That's a new one for them, isn't it? Having a guy save the day by revealing his love. I must say I rather liked this episode, really I did, even if it was Amy-lite.

Um, the crack flashed up at the end in their kitchen, does this mean it never happened? :< I liked those two, especially Craig.


And of course, let's have some spot the x, y and z in the trailer:
Spoiler:
Cybermen
Cyberman head trying to attach itself to Amy?
Daleks
Slitheen did she say?
Judoon
Possibly one like that Carnival of Monsters one back in the old days?


And some theories for the trailer:
Spoiler:
The Doctor's mind?
Some sort of graveyard?
Purely just where the cracks suck stuff up to.
Sure as hell not a prison ship, not with Daleks in, only the timelords can do that, and I doubt they'd have Slitheen and such in there if it was them. Nor would they have the universe police (Judoon/Shadow Proclamation) in there.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Whelan » Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:44 pm UTC

Spoiler:
One of the funniest episodes in ages, I loved it. Did anyone notice Van Gogh on the fridge though? Also, there's a disagreement in our house as to whether Amy finding the one ring reminded her of Rory or made her think that the Doctor wants to propose. By the way, is there any Who poison that's not cured with tea? 10's regen, arsenic and now that mould. Tannin must be powerful stuff.
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