Shazam

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Shazam

Postby OP Tipping » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:43 am UTC

In the Shazam trailer, Billy laughs when he hears Shazam's name. Perhaps he's familiar with the music app of that name, or is familiar with the now rare exclamation.

This is a bit circular, because the app and the exclamation came from the comic book Captain Marvel. Does that comic book exist in the DCEU?

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Re: Shazam

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:51 am UTC

I haven't seen any trailers in which Billy's superhero name is mentioned, and I don't remember seeing the wizard Shazam named in them either. My understanding was that in the current run of comics, Billy's superhero name actually is Shazam, despite the TVtrope name to the contrary, and I expected that to be the case in the new movie too. Is it not? Can you link to the trailer you're looking at?
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Re: Shazam

Postby maybeagnostic » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:31 pm UTC

It's in both trailers but the first one had the whole scene. I guess we technically don't know what his superhero name will be but I doubt anyone thinks he'd be called Captain Marvel.
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Re: Shazam

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:33 pm UTC

Thanks for that. I agree that he's almost certainly not going to be called Captain Marvel. But if the wizard is still named Shazam, it seems like the superhero can't also be named Shazam, and if he's not going to be named Captain Marvel either, then I'm left wondering what they will call him.

It would be funny if bystanders hearing him invoke "Shazam" started calling him that, and he had to make some press statement to the effect that he is not "Shazam".
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Re: Shazam

Postby SecondTalon » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:42 am UTC

It would make absolutely no sense to not call him Shazam, given that's his name in the comics for something like a decade now and be a monumentally stupid idea to name him something else as you're just shooting yourself in the foot at getting more eyes on the paper funnybooks so.... yes, I'm certain that they're going to call him something else entirely, because the DCEU is run by morons.
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Re: Shazam

Postby maybeagnostic » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:01 am UTC

I've never read the comics so this might be a stupid question but can he say Shazam without transforming? It would be kind of hilarious if a journalist asks him who he is, he says "I'm Shazam" and transforms into a kid in front of the cameras.
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Re: Shazam

Postby rmsgrey » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:12 pm UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:I've never read the comics so this might be a stupid question but can he say Shazam without transforming? It would be kind of hilarious if a journalist asks him who he is, he says "I'm Shazam" and transforms into a kid in front of the cameras.


Apparently, in his latest origin story, when Billy Batson says "Shazam?" nothing happens, and the wizard tells him to say it with meaning and purpose, so "SHAZAM!" triggers the transformation.

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Re: Shazam

Postby OP Tipping » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:02 pm UTC

Some brief non spoiler comments...

Unlike a lot of modern superhero movies, I would very much class this as a kids' movie, albeit one that adults can enjoy. The tone is mostly light, there is no complex discussion of geopolitics... and the suit is so spangly, probably the most comicbook-acccurate suit seen in the DCEU so far.

On the other hand there are a few points where unpleasant things are dealt with an a surprisingly real fashion. The bullies aren't just unkind: they are brutal. The events of Dr Sivana's childhood are also a little shocking.
Spoiler:
Billy's mother's reaction to seeing him is also a bit of a kick in the guts.


Shazam seems to be much more exuberant and joyous than Billy is, but perhaps that makes sense. He also seems to lack the "Wisdom of Solomon" that he is supposed to have.

One of the videos that Freddy uploads is titled "Zap-tain America". So do Marvel comics exist in the DCEU?
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Re: Shazam

Postby maybeagnostic » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:26 pm UTC

This is the first superhero movie final fight in a long time that I found both engaging and exciting. I haven't been so invested in the actual conflict of a superhero movie since Civil War and the relatively smaller scale really worked in its favor. They also managed to balance ramping up the emotional stakes and keeping the humor quite well.

I found the middle dragged a bit for me but I realize it was necessary for the story. Still, I wish it was just a bit... different somehow. It doesn't really detract much from the overall quality of the movie.

Now for some extremely spoilery speculation.
Spoiler:
So there were seven wizard thrones but only six kids in the family. I assume they kept the seventh for the sequel but people familiar with the comics know exactly who it is?

Also, are the individual Shazams (Shazami?) supposed to represent a specific virtue like how Sivana had a special connection with Envy? And anyway isn't Shazam just one of the wizards? I didn't quite get how that power transfer works but I assume the other kids became full on superheros on par with Billy and not his temporary sidekicks, right?
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Re: Shazam

Postby Angua » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:55 pm UTC

I feel they could have made this a great movie if they'd actually cast a disabled actor to play a disabled child?

Otherwise, I still enjoyed it. Didn't see every single thing telegraphed, feel like they had a good grasp of what story they wanted to tell and went for it.

Spoiler:
I like that they doubled down on the mother not wanting to find him because I feel like that is not a storyline that often comes up in kids movies, especially ones that focus so heavily on families. Having the found family be more important was nice. I do feel like it shouldn't have been that hard for the cops/social services to track down the mother though?
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Re: Shazam

Postby maybeagnostic » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:49 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I just assumed the system failed him. The police probably could have tracked her down but she wasn't a criminal and CPS workers are not detectives. Besides forcing her to raise a child she literally abandoned would be really difficult so putting him in the system might've been the best they could do under the circumstances.

I feel like there was a scene missing where the foster parents find and invite him back after his mother rejects him, just to really drive down the point that they are his real family. Would that have been too on the nose?
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Re: Shazam

Postby natraj » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:10 pm UTC

Spoiler:
i don't think that scene was necessary at all really; what was important was that he made the choice to go back. they'd already shown the discussion about how foster kids run away, the foster parents know that he is at risk of this and are waiting with open arms when he chooses to come back to them. and how the difference between them and other homes he's been in is that they will be the first one who will want him back. i don't think it's at all necessary that they go explicitly invite him back when they've shown all the ways that these people (who were themselves foster kids) understand and make space for the complexity of having found family after being rejected by others. i really liked and appreciated that they didn't do anything like that, because so often movies (about Good Foster Families, not getting into awful dark movies about abusive foster families) want to sledgehammer you over the head with foster parents who are saccharine and over the top with how We Love You Unlike Those Other Families, and i like that this movie explicitly did not go that route and showed a family that was loving while also understanding that it's far more complicated than just "see, we love you so therefore we're your family now" since the child's own choice and autonomy plays such a crucial role in these things and there needs to be space for that as well. which there often is not in stories that center the adult's Goodness (which narratively makes it seem like obviously the child should accept them as the family because they are loving and good when it's not so straightforward.)

i think the fact they didn't have such a scene helped center billy's autonomy in a way that is often missing from these stories.
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Re: Shazam

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:26 am UTC

One thing I didn't get about the powers:
Spoiler:
I kinda figured that each superpower was supposed to be from one of the people whose names make the acronym SHAZAM. Strength of Hercules is obvious, stamina of Atlas too, power of Zeus I figure is the lightning power, and speed of Mercury is obvious too. But the wisdom of Solomon and courage of Achilles don't exactly seem like superpowers he gets, and nothing seems to explain his flight power. Also, when his foster siblings get their powers, it seems like each of them gets one power -- Daria has speed, Pedro has strength, Eugene has lightning, Freddy has flight -- but it was not particularly clear to me what Mary's special power was, and also all of them kinda seemed to have superhuman strength and stamina anyway.
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Re: Shazam

Postby OP Tipping » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:15 am UTC

Yeah he didn't seem especially wise or brave initially. He did improve in those areas later...


As to flight: Zeus is the god of the sky. It makes sense that someone with the Power of Zeus can fly.
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Re: Shazam

Postby maybeagnostic » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:15 am UTC

Spoiler:
About the foster family- we as the audience got to see them have that conversation about accepting him back but Billy never heard that, did he? I feel like we saw a lot more of the foster parents than Billy ever did. Also I didn't mean that being accepted back should be something the parents did to "fix" the issue, more that they were out looking for him so maybe he sees them looking for him on the streets which is what makes him decide to go back to protect his siblings. There's pretty much the same dynamic going on anyhow but now "let's go look for Billy" was just an excuse to have them out of the house rather than anything Billy knows they are willing to do.

About their different powers- I thought each of them had some of each power but they each had an affinity for a specific one. So each of the siblings had a power they figured out immediately but, I assume, they can all use each power eventually. I suppose Mary's primary power would have then been wisdom? She seemed to be a lot more focused on tactics and how to win than the other kids who were just reacting to immediate threats.
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Re: Shazam

Postby Angua » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:28 am UTC

Mercury literally had winged shoes that allowed him to fly.
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Re: Shazam

Postby Zohar » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:20 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Mercury literally had winged shoes that allowed him to fly.

Have not seen the movie or read any of the comics, but I assumed the Mercury powers allowed him to fly as well.
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Re: Shazam

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:09 pm UTC

Haven't seen the film, just know the comics but not the New 52 too well. It may be noteworthy to mention that Warner considers the DCEU dead and will no longer attempt to tie their films together (for now).

maybeagnostic wrote:Now for some extremely spoilery speculation.
Spoiler:
So there were seven wizard thrones but only six kids in the family. I assume they kept the seventh for the sequel but people familiar with the comics know exactly who it is?

Also, are the individual Shazams (Shazami?) supposed to represent a specific virtue like how Sivana had a special connection with Envy? And anyway isn't Shazam just one of the wizards? I didn't quite get how that power transfer works but I assume the other kids became full on superheros on par with Billy and not his temporary sidekicks, right?

Spoiler:
The Seven Wizards are just because Seven is a reoccurring number. The only one who ever had a name was Shazam. If they felt like attempting the DCEU then they could possibly use that as a starting point - Dr. Fate being a prime candidate, Zatara possibly being there as a way to remove him from the world since apparently Zatanna can't do anything useful if her dad's around, a bunch of different magic users associated with them that Constantine hasn't accidentally on purpose killed, etc. Plenty of magic users who could possibly sit on a Council of Magic.

Still, if they're going with someone else filling that seventh spot, my guess would be Black Adam or Tawky Tawny, as the other members of the Marvel family are either too ridiculous or too unknown, even when compared to Tawky Tawny. Adam would allow some neat storytelling, and Tawny just means they can have a bigass fuck-off CGI Tiger making terrible jokes and casually murdering people with a stick.
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Re: Shazam

Postby maybeagnostic » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:12 am UTC

Spoiler:
Just to clarify, I thought Billy got the power of Shazam (the wizard) and also was... safekeeping, I suppose, the powers of six more wizards so he handed out five of them to his family. My assumption was that there'd be seven superheros each getting the power of one of those seven wizards but apparently that is really far off base.

So I had been hearing a lot about Black Atom and wondering why he was named that if he's this ancient Egyptian but apparently it was Adam all along :D So I looked it up and there is already a Black Adam movie in pre-production with The Rock in the titular role. According to imdb, it should start shooting later this year. I guess he'd be the next Shazam/DCEU villain and not a good guy?
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Re: Shazam

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:53 pm UTC

Continuing that with comic knowledge....

Spoiler:
The current writing on Black Adam has a very Dr. Doom vibe to him (with some Namor elitism on top) - that is, he's the leader of a fictional nation whose citizens worship him, he's ruthless as fuck, BUT he knows to help out when Planet/Universe smashing threats show up because of course he wants to protect the planet/Universe, he lives there. He's basically an earlier version of Captain Marvel/Shazam, and one of the reasons the Wizard chose a kid - Black Adam is what happened the last time he picked an adult to wield the powers.

I can't remember if he fixed his magic word, or if they rebooted it yet again - at one point, Cap Shazam managed to change the phrase to something Black Adam didn't know, not unlike that Futurama episode where they changed the bomb detonation phrase to something Bender would never say.
He figured it out eventually - it was the name of Billy's favorite milkshake.
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Re: Shazam

Postby OP Tipping » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:42 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote: It may be noteworthy to mention that Warner considers the DCEU dead and will no longer attempt to tie their films together (for now).


Damn.
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Re: Shazam

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:26 pm UTC

Given that of the six films made to link together, only two of them were what someone would call "good" - and one of those two was Aquaman - it's probably for the best.
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Re: Shazam

Postby Zohar » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:10 pm UTC

And Aquaman basically has nothing to do with any of the other films.
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Re: Shazam

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:29 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:And Aquaman basically has nothing to do with any of the other films.

I want to say that it referenced the BvS and Justice League films in such a way that furthered my theory that the Justice League we got was part of a series we didn't get, as it fell in line with the events of BvS but did not accurately portray the events of Justice League.

But it was also in something that was like a 1 minute TV thing meant to be background noise and a way of saying "Yes, this is the DCEU" before ignoring it completely, making me wonder how many of the links were lost in editing.

(Deleted Scenes are Aquaman warning everyone to stay away from his oceans and that he has it covered, then Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman, and Cyborg playing cards and ignoring the ocean disasters because "Waterboy" can handle it.)
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Re: Shazam

Postby Zohar » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:12 pm UTC

We saw Shazam on Saturday. It was pretty decent! Alex thinks it's the best DC movie he's seen in years, which is not saying much. I was very reluctant to watch it because the trailer looked so dumb, but I would watch a sequel probably.
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Re: Shazam

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:35 am UTC

Much-belated not-really-but-kinda-pseudo-spoiler answer to the name question up thread: lots of name ideas are toyed with over the course of the film, but at one point Billy in superhero form tells characters who know his secret identity to say his name, and when they say "Billy" he clarifies to say the name that he says to transform into his super-form (and they get it, "Shazam"), which suggests that Billy at least thinks of "Shazam" as his superhero name.
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