Fe Man 3

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Fe Man 3

Postby OP Tipping » Sat May 04, 2013 10:48 am UTC

I would have to say that this is not as good as the first two movies of the series.

In particular, given that this was the first MCU movie since The Avengers, it was a considerable step down, thinkwise.

Nonetheless, worth seeing.

Positives:
Stark is still sharp. There are a smattering of good one liners, e.g. "Laurence Oblivier".
Kingsley is great.

Negatives:
For the first time in the Iron Man series, a plot device is introduced that makes no kind of physical sense to a scientifically literate person. Relies on gobbledegook and magic. I can handle that in the _mixed_ milieu of the Avengers but it feels wrong in the down-to-earth Iron Man movies.
SPOILER:
Spoiler:
In the last scene, the shrapnel is removed from his chest. There's no explanation for why previously unremovable shrapnel could not be removed. Also, it removes the necessity for the implant: it's unfortunate because it removes the "terrible privilege" described so eloquently in The Avengers.
a) Please explain the specific MEDICAL reason for ordering this MEDICATION !
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Angua » Sat May 04, 2013 11:30 am UTC

I enjoyed it a lot more than Iron Man 2. I didn't really mind the crazy science, and I really enjoyed seeing how Stark dealt with the events in the Avengers, and how that affected him. I thought he came across as much more human in this film.

Spoiler:
I'm glad that he finally got rid of the implant. I thought I remembered Pepper telling him that they could probably have the shrapnel removed, but I don't think Stark was willing to take the risk - he always seemed like someone who would much rather be in control rather than letting someone else try to help him (going under general anaesthesia is basically relinquishing all control of yourself and completely trusting other people to be able to look after you). Him finally having the shrapnel removed showed that he was willing to release some control for a short while, in order to better enjoy his life.

Also, the implant always bugged me - it went way too far into his chest - it must have been interfering with his heart.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby maybeagnostic » Sat May 04, 2013 12:59 pm UTC

I really enjoyed it and thought it was much better than the first two (although the other movies really helped me set my expectations at the right level). It was consistently funny and some parts were downright hilarious.
Spoiler:
Both of Ben Kingsley's appearances had the whole theater laughing.


The 'science' was cringeworthy but it was limited to a couple of sentences in two short scenes so I can't really see it as a big problem. I actually assumed both scenes were a subtle satire of technobabble and found them kind of funny. They clearly weren't meant to be taken too seriously because the focus of neither scene was actually the 'science'.

The final showdown was better than I expected- no real tension but pretty CGI and lots of witty dialogue/scenes so definitely ahead of the first two movies.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Zohar » Sat May 04, 2013 1:01 pm UTC

I loved it. It wasn't a particularly intelligent film but it was funny and had good action scenes. I didn't mind the science (everything else is impossible, why not this?). I LOVED the scene after the credits. I had a bit of an issue with how it treats one of the only women characters in it:
Spoiler:
The scientist girl was there pretty much only to die. True, she technically invented the formula thing, but that had no relevance to the plot. She could have also been just a one night stand Tony had that suddenly came back.


Another small issue I had is,
Spoiler:
Now that Avengers is out, there's no reason for Tony not to call on his friends. Not only that - as soon as the president is in danger, obviously SHIELD would intervene, and at least Steve Rogers would come over. They didn't deal with that at all, and it really makes no sense.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Angua » Sat May 04, 2013 1:17 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
Spoiler:
Now that Avengers is out, there's no reason for Tony not to call on his friends. Not only that - as soon as the president is in danger, obviously SHIELD would intervene, and at least Steve Rogers would come over. They didn't deal with that at all, and it really makes no sense.

Spoiler:
Yeah - I guess though that they just assumed that the Vice-President would call in Shield?
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Zohar » Sat May 04, 2013 1:20 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
Zohar wrote:
Spoiler:
Now that Avengers is out, there's no reason for Tony not to call on his friends. Not only that - as soon as the president is in danger, obviously SHIELD would intervene, and at least Steve Rogers would come over. They didn't deal with that at all, and it really makes no sense.

Spoiler:
Yeah - I guess though that they just assumed that the Vice-President would call in Shield?

Spoiler:
If watching The West Wing has taught me anything, it's the VP isn't always close to the president, and the protection of the president is not up to him or any other political figure. By the law of transitivity of TV logic, that explanation doesn't make sense. ;)
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Angua » Sat May 04, 2013 1:21 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I've never seen the West Wing, so wouldn't know! :P That was how I justified it to myself though.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby OP Tipping » Sun May 05, 2013 6:58 am UTC

(everything else is impossible, why not this?)


But for me, that's the thing ... up til now everything in the Iron Man movies has been basically physically possible.


With regard to SHIELD, yeah, I was wondering when Coulson was going to show up, and then I'm all "Oh, right..." :-(
a) Please explain the specific MEDICAL reason for ordering this MEDICATION !
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c) One a scale of one to ten, how would you rate your pain?
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Zarq » Sun May 05, 2013 9:55 am UTC

Why is it physically impossible? It's been 5 years (or something) since the first Iron Man movie. Medicine has progressed.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sun May 05, 2013 12:16 pm UTC

Once Thor became canon, physical possibility ceased to be a rule of that universe.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby keozen » Sun May 05, 2013 10:14 pm UTC

Brilliant film, Crowey and I just got back from seeing it.

Ben Kingsley was great.

From having read the Extremis bits in the comics I kinda knew a lot of the "science" was coming. On that line also I can't help wondering if he did a little Extremis tinkering with himself as part of his op. it would be in keeping with the comics.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby infernovia » Mon May 06, 2013 12:01 pm UTC

Great summary of Iron Man 3:

A couple of days after seeing the film, I can't recall a single beautiful or even memorable shot, though there's a skydiving action sequence two-thirds of the way through that's one of the greatest airborne setpieces in movie history. Given the amiable glop that surrounds it, I can't imagine how it found its way into the movie, though; most of the action isn't so much directed as covered, and its themes are articulated with about as much care.


Even that airborne sequence is ultimately forgettable because there is very little of value that is in risk. Frankly, I don't know why there isn't a lot of guys pissed at this movie, because so many things were just routine.

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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby JudeMorrigan » Mon May 06, 2013 3:10 pm UTC

OP Tipping wrote:SPOILER:
Spoiler:
In the last scene, the shrapnel is removed from his chest. There's no explanation for why previously unremovable shrapnel could not be removed. Also, it removes the necessity for the implant: it's unfortunate because it removes the "terrible privilege" described so eloquently in The Avengers.

Spoiler:
Maybe their ability to do so was related to the limb-regeneration technology that Stark fixed in order to cure Pepper? It seems like it would be kind of a big deal in the fictional universe if that really was a reliable thing now.

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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Williks » Mon May 06, 2013 5:48 pm UTC

I'm not sure I understood what the conflict was actually about.

Spoiler:
So, Guy uses the Town girl's regeneration stuff to heal human limbs, but the result is unstable. So he covers up the mistakes by pretending they were terrorist plots. That's kinda shitty, I guess, but not really super villainy. It's not like he intentionally detonated veterans. Then he goes to Stark Industries to re-pitch his project. Because Tony is the only one able to fix the formula? Is that it? I don't remember them ever clarifying why he showed up at Stark. Then Pepper is all like, we don't deal in technology that could be made weapons. What? Since when? I know they don't build weapon weapons, but I didn't think that literally anything that might somehow be reappropriated for use in weapons technology was now off the table. I mean, didn't he talk about building cheap energy stuff or something in the first movie? And wasn't that built on the ARC reactor design? And isn't that obviously weaponizable? Anyways, he threatens Ben, and then Guy sends helicopters to blow him up. But I thought they wanted Stark to help with the limb regen thingy? Do they not actually need him? Their lead scientist seemed to think they needed him, being as she was in the house when they started firing missiles into it. Then they eventually kidnap Pepper and capture Tony and then they definitely want him to fix the formula because Guy immediately shoots The Town girl. But Tony is all, "No, I don't want to help stabilize something that could maybe help veterans with disabilities."

It's only when Guy inexplicably decides its a good idea to murder the president on live television that this ever approaches like true supervillain status. Before that, it just seems like he's going to the most extreme lengths imaginable to alienate the only guy who's apparently capable of fixing the extremis thing. People in this thread seem to be saying he was bent on world domination. I don't remember that line. I don't really remember ever hearing an explanation for why he was killing the president or why the vice president needed to be in on that plot. Maybe I missed that line.


Even though I felt like there were a lot of problems with the movie, I still think it's the best of the three. The second was a complete mess. The first had it easy, being an origin story, but its villain and final confrontation was beyond bland. This one didn't make sense to me a lot of the time, but the bad guy was intimidating---mostly thanks to Pierce---and the pacing was quick. There weren't any weird detours, the story stayed on point. There is still way too much reliance on huge CGI set pieces. If they want to make a more compelling, grounded, believable action scene, they should dial it back significantly. The first thing I though when the final showdown started up was, "Bet this will sell a lot of toys." They need to think smaller rather than obnoxiously grandiose.

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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon May 06, 2013 5:53 pm UTC

I thought this was fun, but missed a lot of great opportunities. Namely, calling any of the other Avengers for a scene that could have tied into the other films.

"I better call Cap'n A! Hey, Cap! I need help with this Manda- you're fighting what? Yeah that sounds bad, I'll handle this myself"
and then in the Captain America movie, he could get a phone call in the middle of a fight...

But that aside, I dunno, it just felt kind of... uninspired. The suits weren't really used to terribly creative effects (suddenly, the suit has a 500 lb weight limit!), Tony spent the whole movie reacting instead of really pursuing, and...
Spoiler:
I hate it in storylines when women are depicted as being powerful because they are elevated to the level of their man. Pepper's strength is not that she can punch a hole through an Iron Man suit and combust super hot, it's that she's a brilliant human being. Giving her the Extremis was a pretty hackneyed plot point.


And for fucks sake, if you're going to use a comic plot line, USE IT. The Extremis storyline was fucking awesome, I'm not sure why they didn't actually follow through on it.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Angua » Mon May 06, 2013 6:22 pm UTC

Williks wrote:I'm not sure I understood what the conflict was actually about.

Spoiler:
So, Guy uses the Town girl's regeneration stuff to heal human limbs, but the result is unstable. So he covers up the mistakes by pretending they were terrorist plots. That's kinda shitty, I guess, but not really super villainy. It's not like he intentionally detonated veterans. Then he goes to Stark Industries to re-pitch his project. Because Tony is the only one able to fix the formula? Is that it? I don't remember them ever clarifying why he showed up at Stark. Then Pepper is all like, we don't deal in technology that could be made weapons. What? Since when? I know they don't build weapon weapons, but I didn't think that literally anything that might somehow be reappropriated for use in weapons technology was now off the table. I mean, didn't he talk about building cheap energy stuff or something in the first movie? And wasn't that built on the ARC reactor design? And isn't that obviously weaponizable? Anyways, he threatens Ben, and then Guy sends helicopters to blow him up. But I thought they wanted Stark to help with the limb regen thingy? Do they not actually need him? Their lead scientist seemed to think they needed him, being as she was in the house when they started firing missiles into it. Then they eventually kidnap Pepper and capture Tony and then they definitely want him to fix the formula because Guy immediately shoots The Town girl. But Tony is all, "No, I don't want to help stabilize something that could maybe help veterans with disabilities."

It's only when Guy inexplicably decides its a good idea to murder the president on live television that this ever approaches like true supervillain status. Before that, it just seems like he's going to the most extreme lengths imaginable to alienate the only guy who's apparently capable of fixing the extremis thing. People in this thread seem to be saying he was bent on world domination. I don't remember that line. I don't really remember ever hearing an explanation for why he was killing the president or why the vice president needed to be in on that plot. Maybe I missed that line.


Spoiler:
I believe that it was mentioned several times that Guy was going to start selling the Extremis formula to the highest bidder so they could use it for super-soldiers. The healing wounded veterans seemed more like a way to get well trained soldiers to be loyal to you as you'd healed them so they'd be your personal army.

The vice-president was needed as they'd become president when they killed the current president. I think that was more a handy 'now the leader of the US is in my pocket' than an actual intricate plan.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Williks » Mon May 06, 2013 6:39 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
I believe that it was mentioned several times that Guy was going to start selling the Extremis formula to the highest bidder so they could use it for super-soldiers. The healing wounded veterans seemed more like a way to get well trained soldiers to be loyal to you as you'd healed them so they'd be your personal army.

The vice-president was needed as they'd become president when they killed the current president. I think that was more a handy 'now the leader of the US is in my pocket' than an actual intricate plan.

Spoiler:
Wouldn't there be far more money in releasing a commercial product capable of healing almost any kind of wound than a product with military applications targeting an extremely niche audience? I mean, in the former case your customer base is everyone, while in the latter, your customer base is only people who are willing to become supersoldiers.

And was I misunderstanding the nature of what extremis did? I thought the super power stuff was directly linked to the unstable nature of the formula. The only thing that was supposed to happen was regeneration. The extreme heat and fire spitting and explosive potential were all results of an unstable formula. Some users were simply better at pushing the limits of that instability without combusting. So presumably, perfecting the formula would mean all those magic fire powers would go bye bye.

My question regarding the president/vice president was more why did the vice president need to be in on it. The whole air force one scene lasted all of five minutes. What would have happened different had the vice president made a call alerting everyone that the president was in danger? Couldn't they just have approached the vice president after he was made president and offered a cure for his daughter then? It just seems more than a little risky to tell the vice president ahead of time that you plan to murder the president, counting on him being totally okay with that because you can fix his daughter's leg.

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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby rmsgrey » Wed May 08, 2013 3:38 pm UTC

Williks wrote:
Spoiler:
My question regarding the president/vice president was more why did the vice president need to be in on it. The whole air force one scene lasted all of five minutes. What would have happened different had the vice president made a call alerting everyone that the president was in danger? Couldn't they just have approached the vice president after he was made president and offered a cure for his daughter then? It just seems more than a little risky to tell the vice president ahead of time that you plan to murder the president, counting on him being totally okay with that because you can fix his daughter's leg.


Spoiler:
If your only reason for actually killing the President is that you want to replace him with the VP because you have a hold on him, it's better to make sure you have that hold before making that investment rather than approaching him afterwards and relying on his gratitude. Otherwise you risk being in the situation where you fix his daughter and he suddenly stops returning your calls...


The idea of a Supersoldier Serum is a long-standing recurring macguffin in Marvel - some versions of the Hulk, and assorted minor villains and secondary heroes have been empowered by variations on the original - Captain America is one of the very few unqualified successes, while there have been plenty of people looking to create super-powered armies. The clear message is that mass-produced superhumans are a very bad thing.

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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Jorpho » Sat May 18, 2013 3:17 am UTC

Dorkly posted a rather clever bit entitled Why Iron Man Doesn't Ask Any of the Avengers For Help.

Anyway, I was quite satisfied with the movie. Shane Black and his work on Lethal Weapon seem to come up an awful lot in reviews, and it definitely has the same kind of feel as the Lethal Weapon films, for some reason I can't quite put my finger on.

The only thing that really let me down was the ending. I just don't buy that somehow Tony's experiences were supposed to be in some way transformative and helped him to overcome his mysterious trauma; I don't even see how something appropriate could have been added without throwing a wrench into the pacing, either. The way the film ends suggests he's just going to walk away from heroics entirely, which would be fine mostly if it weren't for the fact that everyone knows he is inevitably going to return for The Avengers 2. Maybe something vital was left on the cutting room floor?

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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby eSOANEM » Sat May 18, 2013 7:47 am UTC

Zarq wrote:Why is it physically impossible? It's been 5 years (or something) since the first Iron Man movie. Medicine has progressed.


Spoiler:
Because they regenerate and heat up enormously without having any source for all the energy that takes. Conservation of energy being violated is baaaad.


keozen wrote:From having read the Extremis bits in the comics I kinda knew a lot of the "science" was coming. On that line also I can't help wondering if he did a little Extremis tinkering with himself as part of his op. it would be in keeping with the comics.


Spoiler:
I haven't read the comics and this was my interpretation of that scene too.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Zarq » Sat May 18, 2013 8:07 am UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
Zarq wrote:Why is it physically impossible? It's been 5 years (or something) since the first Iron Man movie. Medicine has progressed.


Spoiler:
Because they regenerate and heat up enormously without having any source for all the energy that takes. Conservation of energy being violated is baaaad.



Spoiler:
I thought you we're talking about Tony being able to remove that shrapnel.


Remember we've entered a universe where magic is possible (since The Avengers). But it can even be explained without that. There's tons of faux-science explanations. Extra-efficient sun-light storage. Tiny portals to some energy filled universe (like the one Cyclops gets his blasts from). Nuclear fusion.
Last edited by Zarq on Sat May 18, 2013 10:16 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Carlington » Sat May 18, 2013 9:41 am UTC

Is it safe to talk without spoilers yet, have we crossed that threshold?

To be safe:
Spoiler:
There's the small matter of how they completely wasted the Mandarin. The Mandarin is the closest Tony Stark really has to an arch-nemesis, but they decided that lolnope, he's an actor. I just...it just grated on me.
Apart from that, the angle I think they were going for in this film was sending the message that even with a literal suit of armour, you can still be vulnerable - and who better to showcase anxiety through than larger-than-life Tony Stark?
As for calling on the rest of the Avengers, you've got:
[*]Bruce - as far as we know, he didn't exactly leave a forwarding address. I mean, there was the post-credits scene, but even so...he wasn't a willing participant in the events of the Avengers, he probably wants to lie low for a bit.
[*]Cap - He's off doing his own thing at the moment, and I'm 97% certain they'll elaborate on where he was in The Winter Soldier
[*]Thor - We don't even know how he got back to Earth after the Bifröst was broken, apart from a vague allusion to "dark energy" c/o Loki. Apart from which, it's pretty heavily implied he's got other stuff to deal with back in Asgard, what with the Odinsleep, and his brother being a war criminal.
And that leaves Hawkeye and the Black Widow, both of whom are officially S.H.I.E.L.D. personnel, and not really on-call to help Tony out.

Add to that the amount of grief Nick Fury was given for pulling the Avengers stunt in the first place, and it's just a few too many strings that need to be pulled.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Zarq » Sat May 18, 2013 10:18 am UTC

Riiight, spoilers, sorry.

Carlington wrote:
Spoiler:
There's the small matter of how they completely wasted the Mandarin. The Mandarin is the closest Tony Stark really has to an arch-nemesis, but they decided that lolnope, he's an actor. I just...it just grated on me.


Spoiler:
It's still fixable. This might all be a ploy by the real Mandarin.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Carlington » Sat May 18, 2013 10:20 am UTC

It might...I just...hmm.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Jorpho » Sat May 18, 2013 12:59 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
Zarq wrote:Why is it physically impossible? It's been 5 years (or something) since the first Iron Man movie. Medicine has progressed.


Spoiler:
Because they regenerate and heat up enormously without having any source for all the energy that takes. Conservation of energy being violated is baaaad.
Spoiler:
Remember in the Doctor Who episode "The Waters of Mars", it which is was proposed nuclear fission was going on within the bodies of the baddies? Come to think of it, they did something similar in Heroes, I think.

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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby eSOANEM » Sat May 18, 2013 5:09 pm UTC

Zarq wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:
Zarq wrote:Why is it physically impossible? It's been 5 years (or something) since the first Iron Man movie. Medicine has progressed.


Spoiler:
Because they regenerate and heat up enormously without having any source for all the energy that takes. Conservation of energy being violated is baaaad.



Spoiler:
I thought you we're talking about Tony being able to remove that shrapnel.


Remember we've entered a universe where magic is possible (since The Avengers). But it can even be explained without that. There's tons of faux-science explanations. Extra-efficient sun-light storage. Tiny portals to some energy filled universe (like the one Cyclops gets his blasts from). Nuclear fusion.


Spoiler:
Well, the regenerating plant took place a long time before that guy with the hammer fell out of the sky.

Anyway, there isn't really any plausible way to have something with sufficient energy density to heat a person to 3000K or whatever it was such that they can melt through Iron Man suits but their flesh is left unharmed.


Jorpho wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:
Zarq wrote:Why is it physically impossible? It's been 5 years (or something) since the first Iron Man movie. Medicine has progressed.


Spoiler:
Because they regenerate and heat up enormously without having any source for all the energy that takes. Conservation of energy being violated is baaaad.
Spoiler:
Remember in the Doctor Who episode "The Waters of Mars", it which is was proposed nuclear fission was going on within the bodies of the baddies? Come to think of it, they did something similar in Heroes, I think.


Spoiler:
Yeah, and made just as little sense then. Attempts to explain things that have to be magic in order to work (from a Clarke's 2nd law PoV at least) with genuine science we know are doomed to failure and just become cringeworthy.
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby harrystefanou » Thu May 30, 2013 12:24 pm UTC

Anyone tell me what's the story of this movie?? I want to watch iron man 3...

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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby OP Tipping » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:42 pm UTC

BTW, the scene where Stark is using a robotically controlled suit to greet Pepper reminded me a bit of a sequence in Watchmen...
a) Please explain the specific MEDICAL reason for ordering this MEDICATION !
b) Please state the nature of your ailment or injury.
c) One a scale of one to ten, how would you rate your pain?
d) Please state the nature of the medical emergency.

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Angua
Don't call her Delphine.
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Re: Fe Man 3

Postby Angua » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:54 am UTC

There's a Marvel One-Shot: All hail the King, which shows the Mandarin in prison, and I think sheds a new light on the Mandarin and the Ten Rings (especially considering the criticisms in the screenjunkies 'how to fix marvel' episode).
Crabtree's bludgeon: “no set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated”
GNU Terry Pratchett

lnwpen88
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Re: Fe Man 3

Postby lnwpen88 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:36 pm UTC

I really enjoyed seeing how Stark dealt with the events in the Gclub, and how that affected him. I thought he came across as much more human in this film.

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Neil_Boekend
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Re: Iron Man 3

Postby Neil_Boekend » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:07 am UTC

Carlington wrote:
Spoiler:
There's the small matter of how they completely wasted the Mandarin. The Mandarin is the closest Tony Stark really has to an arch-nemesis, but they decided that lolnope, he's an actor. I just...it just grated on me.

Spoiler:
That was a part that I actually loved. If I were an evil mastermind and able to control my gloating I would do the same.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

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he/him/his


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