Super Smash Bros.

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Durinthal
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Super Smash Bros.

Postby Durinthal » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:37 am UTC

The official Super Smash Bros. thread.

Brawl's out in North America - go get it already!

Info on Brawl:
Spoiler:
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html

Release Date
Sunday, March 9th, 2008

Characters (officially confirmed, new character)
Dr. Mario
Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Peach
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf
Falco
Fox
Ness
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Samus / Zero Suit Samus
Zelda / Sheik
Link
Young Link
Pichu
Pikachu
Mewtwo
Jigglypuff
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
Roy
Pit (Kid Icarus)
Wario (Mario sports titles, Warioware)
Meta Knight (Kirby series)
Solid Snake (Metal Gear series)
Ike (Fire Emblem series)
Pokémon Trainer (Pokémon Red/Blue)
Diddy Kong (Donkey Kong series)
Lucas (Earthbound/Mother series)
Sonic (Sonic the Hedgehog)
King Dedede (Kirby series)
Pikmin & Olimar (Pikmin)

Leaked characters:
Marth 1 video
Captain Falcon 1
Luigi 1 2
Ganondorf 1 2 3
Falco 1 2 3
Ness 1
Jigglypuff 1
Game & Watch 1 2
Lucario 1 2
ROB 1 2
Toon Link 1
Wolf 1 video

Character select screen
Last edited by Durinthal on Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:55 pm UTC, edited 21 times in total.

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Postby ccromwell » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:47 am UTC

I formally volunteer to make this the thread in which we discuss daily the updates to http://smashbros.com in addition to Smash and Melee discussion.

I play Melee at the semi-pro level (local tournaments and whatnot); I main Fox because a) I'm a big fan of fast, light characters in any fighter, b) Pikachu sucks and I feel like I have more control with Fox than Capt. Falcon, and c) Fox is awesome. Capt. Falcon is fun, though, because of his fair smash, and I enjoy Mario (NOT Doc Mario!), Capt. Falcon, Marth, and Ganondorf for casual play.

As far as Brawl is concerned, before the first trailer came out, I was really pulling for Meta-Knight and Ridley. Now that the former prayer has been answered, I can only watch and wait for Sakurai (a.k.a. Our Lord And Savior) to respond to the other.

One more thing: How do you guys feel about Assist Trophies? I'm not really sure, to be honest. On the one hand, it feels kind of like a useless addition that really could have been handled by the Pokeball, but on the other, it would be very nice for collectible trophies (like in Melee) to have a use outside of looking pretty.
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Postby Invisible_Insane » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:20 am UTC

Thanks. I figured having steered three or four threads into Smash dialogues, starting the thread would be a bit much.

I play Sheik, Marth, Roy, and Doctor Mario. I've played in one tournament that was hosted by my dorm, in which I was absolutely thrashed. However, since the RA responsible for setting up the tourney (against my advice) decided to use projectors, and a great deal of my play style relies on ground dodging, I try not to hold it against myself. I can wavedash, but not well. I do it most easily with Dr. Mario, and I've never found a use for it with Sheik(primary), except for edge-hogging.

Brawl: I'm just hoping (given the experience I've had with my friends) that Peach's downsmash is a little less 50% damage. I'm also hoping that they make Roy a little bit more playable. I really enjoy setting my opponents on fire. I don't know if anyone ever played Marvel vs. Capcom, but a similar idea was in place there. It's not like serious matches are played with items anyway.
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Postby ccromwell » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:41 am UTC

I fully expect Roy to be removed outright from Brawl, since one, not very many people main him and two, he was included in Melee to promote an upcoming Fire Emblem game in Japan.

This brings up another question: Which characters do you guys think will be removed in the transition from Melee to Brawl?

Further, which characters do you think should be removed?
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Postby Invisible_Insane » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:53 am UTC

ccromwell wrote:I fully expect Roy to be removed outright from Brawl

Further, which characters do you think should be removed?


Leave me to my delusions. I've heard a lot of talk on the boards about other characters from Fire Emblem being substituted for Roy, but never having played Fire Emblem, I can't really say it would make a difference. I'd have no objection to losing Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, Pikachu... pokémon in general. They're more interesting to me in their pokéball capacity. Bowser and Yoshi could be booted too. Also, take out Mario. Doc's enough.
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Postby Rodan » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:54 am UTC

I play SSBM a lot with my brother, and I'm best with Dr. Mario, Sheik, and Link. I haven't mastered dodging and shielding, but I think I'm still fairly good. I can beat pretty much any level 9 COM in a duel, if that says anything. I just hope I have a Wii by the time Brawl comes out...

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Postby lorenith » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:56 am UTC

I play Yoshi. I never got beyond semi competitive play though. I liked playing around with Falco, Young Link and Mewtwo on occasion too. But people get mad at me running around and constantly shining them if I'm on Falco. <.< >.> Mewtwo is really fun if you take the time to learn how to actually hit someone with his attacks.

But yeah Yoshi is fun. He's cute as a button. :lol:

As far as assist trophies go, I think they're a neat idea, yeah they're a lot like pokeballs, except they don't summon pokemon, they summon random game characters. Which is a fun deal if you ask me. I don't think they matter so much with competitive players since generally all items are turned off for tournament play.

I don't think many characters should be removed, Sakura said somewhere though that there wouldn't be anymore clone characters in brawl. I don't know if that means all the clones from melee will be removed, or if that means they won't be adding anymore. I'm all for "clones" getting their own move set though.

I have a feeling Game&Watch, Ice Climbers, Pichu, Mewtwo, Roy, and Young Link will be out of the picture. Which is a little saddening because they're all nifty characters to play for fun, and some can be pretty competitive if you're good, or if they were just twerked a bit for brawl.

I'm pretty excited for brawl, although chances of me owning a wii/brawl anytime within the next two years is pretty slim.

Edit: And Sakura has said that he isn't removing any of the original characters so don't count on characters like Yoshi being booted. I'd be happy if they'd stop *nerfing* Yoshi though. Or if they're going to at least keep the other characters balanced.

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Postby Peshmerga » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:00 am UTC

I only play SSB original. Melee is just... too much.

Mario, Fox, Pikachu, and Link are my favorites. My techniques include quickly shielding + rolling all over the place.
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Postby Durinthal » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:08 am UTC

I've updated the first post with a character list for Brawl. Feel free to correct me or suggest additional things to put there.

Throws were insanely powerful in the original game. Pikachu was a mean little bastard as a result.

I hope to see Ganondorf return wielding at least one sword, if not two (final battle in Wind Waker = amazing). Maybe have his pig form as his Final Smash?

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Postby Rodan » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:11 am UTC

wow... the original... I remember buying that in a German Toys "R" Us and wondering why it didn't work...
my strategy changes for each character. For Sheik, keep the opponent (I only use Sheik in duels) above me with the quick dash moves, then use the ^smash repeatedly. When the opponent gets too high, jump and do the ^a move.
For the other characters, it's just jump a lot.

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Postby Invisible_Insane » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:18 am UTC

My Sheik strategy focuses on dodging and damaging people to a point where I can either fair/uair them off the stage, or dash-cancel to UpSmash them out. This fails quite fantastically on Peach, the bane of my Smash existence.

@Rodan: Why only use Sheik in duels? You are missing out on the bliss of messing with someone else's game with rampant dart throwing.

I would also love to see Ganon whip out a sword.
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Postby ccromwell » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:21 am UTC

Edit: And Sakura has said that he isn't removing any of the original characters so don't count on characters like Yoshi being booted. I'd be happy if they'd stop *nerfing* Yoshi though. Or if they're going to at least keep the other characters balanced.


How sure are you of that? I distinctly remember more than one article stating that several characters would be cut from the final roster in Brawl. If any were cut, Yoshi surely wouldn't be one of them - he's a franchise all by himself.

And nerfing Yoshi? Forget about the tier lists; it's not the character, it's how you use him (or her, in the case of Peach and arguably Sheik). I have a friend who mains Yoshi, actually, and he's absolutely crazy with that little dino. His lack of a third jump doesn't really hurt him that much at all. I will say that he relies a lot less on the character's abilities and more on mind games and keeping things unpredictable, though.
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Postby Rodan » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:22 am UTC

My strategy for Sheik only works in duels. It can only really hit one person at a time. In duels, it works great, but otherwise I just either lose, don't play as Sgeik, or run away on the sidelines and wait for the other people to die.

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Postby Invisible_Insane » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:27 am UTC

Gotcha. Admittedly, Marth is a lot more effective in non-duels. I find that most 4-way matches generally turn into two sets of duels on the same stage, so my strategy generally holds.

Also, what tags do people play under? Mine's DXDP.
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Postby Rodan » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:28 am UTC

My initials: T.R.J.E.

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Postby lorenith » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:46 am UTC

ccromwell wrote:
And nerfing Yoshi? Forget about the tier lists; it's not the character, it's how you use him (or her, in the case of Peach and arguably Sheik). I have a friend who mains Yoshi, actually, and he's absolutely crazy with that little dino. His lack of a third jump doesn't really hurt him that much at all. I will say that he relies a lot less on the character's abilities and more on mind games and keeping things unpredictable, though.


Oh I'm a great yoshi player too, much to the anger of many people that have played me, they see a girl playing yoshi and think an easy win is in store, then get pissed when I kick their butts. Yoshi is a very fun character, and you're right about the things you've said.

But trust me Yoshi has been nerfed between games, and if they nerf him again I'll be sad, I'll cope with it and keep maining Yoshi, but I'll be sad that no one will take me seriously without actually playing against me.

And when I say not dropping characters I mean the original characters. (Mario/Dk/Yoshi/Fox/Pikachu/Link/Samus/Kirby)

Just about everyone else is subject to droppage or not, but those 8 are definitely going to be in the game.

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Postby une see » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:54 am UTC

I only have the original Super Smash Brothers on my trusty, handy dandy N64. But I've played Super Smash Brothers Melee before...meh. It was okay, but I definitely didn't like it as much as the original.

Kirby's the best. Only because he's so cute.
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Postby ccromwell » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:07 am UTC

I believe that Sakurai has said that the gameplay in Brawl will combine a lot of the best things about the gameplay of the original and Melee. That really excites me, because I like the speed of Melee, but I also really liked the "sticky" combat of the original; it made you feel like you had a lot more power behind your attacks.
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Postby Roun » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:09 am UTC

I've played as Marth since before there were tiers. My friends were like, "Marth? Why not play as Roy?". That was until they lost to me a few times.

Where do people host tournaments? Haven't really looked into anything like that. Are there any websites that someone could point me to for that?

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Postby ccromwell » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:12 am UTC

http://smashboards.com is pretty much the meeting place for Smash players. If there are any events going on in your area, that'd be the place to start looking.
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Postby Roun » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:15 am UTC

ccromwell wrote:http://smashboards.com is pretty much the meeting place for Smash players. If there are any events going on in your area, that'd be the place to start looking.


Thanks!

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Postby ! » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:42 am UTC

Dr. Mario ftw. A good friend of mine plays a mean Marth, and even with the Doc's short range, I was able to best him half the time.

I could also put up a decent with with Adult Link, Jigglypuff, Game & Watch, Ganondorf and Peach.

For a fun game I would use Bowser or DK or Mewtwo.


... the Doc is way better than the original Mario.

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Postby Invisible_Insane » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:35 am UTC

Your friend doesn't play a mean enough Marth, then. Doc does kick ass, though. His forward-B is one of the most fun moves in the game, especially when you're playing with items.
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Postby haveblue » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:58 am UTC

I play Mewtwo, even though I'm sometimes frustrated by how slow he is. In the N64 version, I play Kirby, 'cause he's the winner.

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Postby Marbas » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:42 pm UTC

Bowser is confirmed for Brawl?

YES!
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Postby Durinthal » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:08 pm UTC

Yup, and his Final Smash is Giga Bowser. I wonder how big he could get if you can still play Giant Mêlée (and maybe get a Mushroom).

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Postby Marbas » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:35 pm UTC

Durinthal wrote:Yup, and his Final Smash is Giga Bowser. I wonder how big he could get if you can still play Giant Mêlée (and maybe get a Mushroom).


Says he's going to be different this time around. That's good. Giant dinosaurs should not be based almost exclusively around Up-B and their shffl'd air game.
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Postby Tractor » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:52 pm UTC

Typical characters (in order of preference): Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Samus, Mario, DK.

Few things more entertaining than waiting for someone to jump back to the edge, and then wail on them with Marth.
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Postby Princess Marzipan » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:37 pm UTC

All I really want is characters that are actually BALANCED (as fun as it is to play Sheik, she really is a bullshit character) and for advanced gameplay to NOT be centered around abusing glitches in the physics of the game.

shffl? Wave-dashing? Seriously, FUCK that.
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Postby Invisible_Insane » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:48 pm UTC

Sheik is a bullshit character? If I were to start calling bullshit, I'd have to start with Peach. Seriously, 50 damage for a downsmash? Nonsense. Plus the turnips, occasional bomb and beam sword.

I don't play enough games to know, but doesn't advanced gameplay in other games involve being able to exploit the games mechanics? And do you think the game would still be as popular as it is if not for these techniques (wavedahsing, l-canceling, and the like)?
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Postby Marbas » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:56 pm UTC

CreemyNougat wrote:All I really want is characters that are actually BALANCED (as fun as it is to play Sheik, she really is a bullshit character) and for advanced gameplay to NOT be centered around abusing glitches in the physics of the game.

shffl? Wave-dashing? Seriously, FUCK that.


Shffl involves no glitching. L-canceling is in the game manual. Wavedashing however, could be removed. It's not necessary for playing well. You can build a very effective playing style without it. I personally only use it for tricking people into getting hit with Bowser's forward smash...even then, it's still very situational, don't listen to the techers. It's not hard to get the hang of anyways. I tend to stay in the air when I play though, so alot of it is pretty useless to me. I think it would be just as fun without the glitches.
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Postby ccromwell » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:05 pm UTC

You say that as if professional Smash is all about people wavedashing around, which it's not.

At all.

Wavedashing was intentional. It could easily have been removed by HAL, but they didn't. I don't think they realized that it would be refined to the extent that it has, but I honestly believe that its inclusion was intentional. And besides that, in order to be good at the game, it requires using the game engine and mechanics to their fullest extent, yes? Why doesn't that include wavedashing?
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Postby Jesse » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:07 pm UTC

Same as people using the BXB in Halo 2 to make their Battle Rifles melee faster. It's not incredibly difficult to do once you've learned it, and so everything is even once again.

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Postby Rodan » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:08 pm UTC

I don't even know what wavedashing IS.

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Postby Invisible_Insane » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:14 pm UTC

Rodan wrote:I don't even know what wavedashing IS.


Google it. It's quite useful when you play with Doc, next to useless with Sheik. Essentially you jump, and then use the air dodge (diagonally) to bring yourself back to the ground. If you time it right, you'll slide a little. Try it with Luigi first.
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Postby ccromwell » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:33 pm UTC

Basically, wavedashing is jumping, then immediately air-dodging diagonally towards the ground to slide along the ground. It allows you to move substantially faster than running, but it's fairly difficult to do efficiently. It's commonly used by professional players to execute mindgames.
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Postby 2DMan » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:46 pm UTC

CreemyNougat wrote:(as fun as it is to play Sheik, she really is a bullshit character)


Not entirely, I'd say. I claim to be reasonably good - I can beat ninety percent of people I know every time - but I know a guy who always plays Sheik and he is physically impossible to hit. Dodges every damn thing, it's frankly terrifying. And yes, he does find room in that to hit back, too.
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Postby ccromwell » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:49 pm UTC

There aren't any "bullshit characters" (though I joke about Mewtwo and Pichu a lot). Like I said earlier, it's a lot less about which character you choose and a lot more about whose hands that character is in.
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Postby Rodan » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:50 pm UTC

yeah, I bet somewhere, somebody can actually effectively use Jigglypuff.
For me, Jigglypuff is a suicide tool.

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Postby ccromwell » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:52 pm UTC

The best professional player from my home state mains Jigglypuff. His name is Andon, I think, and he is absolutely incredible.

(edit: Grab, up-throw, jump, Rest. OH GOD IT HURTS.)
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