Mass Effect 3 (Seriously, Use Spoilers People!)

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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:38 am UTC

Eh, that particular reason... "There is absolutely no reason to require Origin to play the game other than to try to cram this service down our throats."... same deal with Valve and Steam at first, what with Half Life 2 requiring it and all. Fast forward to now, and most PC gamers are satisfied with Steam.

It's just... to compete with Steam, you have to offer something that.. well, maybe not while as good of a service as Steam in regards to it's Library, it has to be as good in every other respect.

Nothing I've read about it suggests it is. And it's sitting on the quite frankly fucking massive EA Library of Games and.. doesn't seem to be utilizing it. Right now, there's 162 games in the PC Library.

They don't have the Ultima Series in there. No Wing Commander. They appear to only have the latest Sim City. No Sims 1. Hell, just digging through the games section, it'd appear to me that EA sprang up fully formed sometime in 2003-2005, having somehow gotten the rights to Ultima Online.

Their library sucks. Plain and simple. Any other complain would likely be looked over and ignored if they had their entire catalog of PC games going back to at least 1998 on there. Hell, do what Steam does with the older ones, and just install DOSbox with a preset of Configurations and no guarantee of it working right for $5 or less. I'd pay $5 for Wing Commander and no guarantee of it working. Because I know the community at large would get it working.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Dark567 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:45 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Nothing I've read about it suggests it is. And it's sitting on the quite frankly fucking massive EA Library of Games and.. doesn't seem to be utilizing it. Right now, there's 162 games in the PC Library.

They don't have the Ultima Series in there. No Wing Commander. They appear to only have the latest Sim City. No Sims 1. Hell, just digging through the games section, it'd appear to me that EA sprang up fully formed sometime in 2003-2005, having somehow gotten the rights to Ultima Online.
I think before EA decided to do digital distribution, they sold the exclusive rights to digitally distribute many of their old games(i.e. Wing Commander and Ultima, along with the absolutely great Alpha Centauri ) to GOG.com.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby omgryebread » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:52 am UTC

If I buy a game with Steam though, I'm tied to Steam's customer service, which is not too bad. With Origin, I'm tied to EA's, which is pretty legendary for how little they give a fuck about actually serving customers.

I do mind games on Steam, but I can live with them, since if I have a problem I can be relatively sure it'll be taken care of. It just kinda sucks that companies are tying games to distribution platforms to get me to buy stuff. I wouldn't mind if it prevented piracy, but ME3 is going to get a day 0 crack no matter what.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Jack21222 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:47 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Eh, that particular reason... "There is absolutely no reason to require Origin to play the game other than to try to cram this service down our throats."... same deal with Valve and Steam at first, what with Half Life 2 requiring it and all. Fast forward to now, and most PC gamers are satisfied with Steam.


I've never played Half Life 2, but I chose to not purchase one of the Total War games because it required Steam. I don't have a problem purchasing a game through Steam and having it required, but I would have a MAJOR problem with a game that requires steam if I purchase a hard copy through a brick and mortar store. I dislike having to run Steam to play any of the games I bought through Steam, but I tolerate it because it was more convenient to buy at the time, and it was something that I chose to do. Whenever possible, I prefer to buy a CD version of the game. I did that for Mass Effect 2, for example.

Here, there is no choice, and no possible way around it. You must download Origin and keep Origin installed to play ME3. It's intrusive and adds no functionality.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby ArgonV » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:28 pm UTC

I have this sneaking suspicion the demo will be released tomorrow on an American time schedule, so us Europeans need to wait longer...

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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Xeio » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:58 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:I have this sneaking suspicion the demo will be released tomorrow on an American time schedule, so us Europeans need to wait longer...
Well, the official post says timing may vary by geographic region. So have hope? :|

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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby mosc » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:03 pm UTC

EA's a total pain but I just can't live without TOR and ME3. If buying those two makes their origin service a success I'm sorry. I'll boycott everything else, even DLC. I feel guilty enough already. I miss my steam overlay and voice chat for TOR deeply :(
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Obby » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:05 pm UTC

mosc wrote:EA's a total pain but I just can't live without TOR and ME3. If buying those two makes their origin service a success I'm sorry. I'll boycott everything else, even DLC. I feel guilty enough already. I miss my steam overlay and voice chat for TOR deeply :(


I feel your pain. However, there is a workaround to get the Steam overlay in TOR. I posted it in the thread for TOR I believe, I'll see if I can dig it up.

Edit: No, it turns out I did not post it. I said I would, and I did not. So I apologize for being a dirty liar.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:07 pm UTC

Some of these previews have me so hyped for ME3 now. The shot of the Normandy dropping out of FTL into a full-fleet battle between the Quarians and the Geth?

DO WANT.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Ryom » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:56 pm UTC

I'm somewhat worried about what DLC they are going to try to justify... want to know the final outcome of some of your actions? Just buy these $10 DLCs and find out! They did this with Shadow Broker, it was good BUT... you started the Shadow Broker plotline in ME1 proper, and you started Liara's story in ME1 proper. In order to finish those plot threads, you needed to read the COMIC and buy DLC for ME2. Otherwise those two fairly major plotlines were resolved off screen and out of game leaving anyone who started them in ME1 hanging until they paid extra to find out the results. A fairly major plot thread like that should have been held in ME2 proper, and should have been Liara's quest, even if she wasn't going to be a traveling member of the Normandy in ME2. You go to Illium and deal with Liara's missions and end with the Shadow Broker quest.

Now DLC like OVERLORD was GREAT (as DLC). It was NOT a plot thread started in a prior game that ransomed plot resolution until players paid EA some extra scratch. It was a new, ancillary related plot that hooked in effectively with the events of ME2. Shadow Broker was better, but it is my opinion that it should have been part of the primary game... NOT DLC.

Bioware did the same move again in Dragon Age: Origins with Witch Hunt (which was panned anyway but...) they ransomed Morrigan's plot resolution as DLC. Want to know what happened to member you'd been traveling with and who left mysteriously... $10 please! It just doesn't sit right with me. DLC needs to be new or side content, not resolution of existing content.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Belial » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:07 pm UTC

Iunno, bioware's pretty much always been good about releasing DLC that adds meaningful gameplay and such. I never object to getting more game.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Ryom » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:08 pm UTC

My objection is not to the DLC (I thought Overlord was a perfect example of DLC done right) in general but rather ransoming plots that should have been a part of the game proper IMO (Shadow Broker, Witch Hunt).

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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Belial » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:36 pm UTC

I don't really think that's the case. The plot elements that came up in the Shadow Broker DLC are absolutely something that could've been covered in a book or comic, the fact that they decided to build a really fun (and rather large) chunk of gameplay around it seemed like a really awesome bonus to me. ME2 stood perfectly well without it, and Liara's involvement basically read as similar to Kaiden/Ashley's "I have other shit to do now".

Likewise, Morrigan's story stood on its own: she makes the deal (or doesn't) and then she leaves and tells you never to follow her. That is a perfectly decent way to leave things; again DA:O doesn't seem to be missing anything if that's the last thing you hear. An answer to "what happens if we go ahead and follow her anyway?" was bonus, and in the age before DLC I imagine it just wouldn't have been answered. I appreciated it as such.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby maybeagnostic » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:18 pm UTC

I played DA:O and ME2 without Witch Hunt and The Shadow Broker respectively and I didn't feel like I'd missed out on any part of the actual story. I definitely missed out on a story, one that I was definitely interested in playing through which makes it kind of perfect for DLC. Overlord, on the other hand, didn't really have much to do with anything and it's a much harder sell as a $10 DLC (it was actually only $6?) because there is nothing connecting it to a character I care about. Although I bought Overlord and haven't bought The Shadow Broker yet so this reasoning is shaky at best.

I actually played Witch Hunt later and it didn't feel like part of the main story at all. Maybe that was because my warden refused Morrigan's offer and then sacrificed himself at the end so it really wasn't a part of my story. I like having it as a separate DLC so I am not punished for my choices in the game by not getting access to a significant chunk of gameplay.

On that note, I just finished ME1 yesterday and I am about to replay ME2 next. I have the Overlord DLC and whatever else comes with the Deluxe edition on steam* and now I am trying to decide which others to buy. Definitely The Shadow Broker and Arrival but are any of the others worth it? I am only interested in stuff that adds to the story. I know there is one with an extra companion- does she come with two additional mission like what's-his-name-that-comes-with-the-deluxe-edition? Are the missions interesting?

* Some random equipment stuff? I hate those DLCs because they always have superior equipment to everything else in the game. Kind of like Specter weapons in ME1 they are easily better than anything else you find and you just get it early in the game so it makes the whole equipment system kind of pointless. Thankfully it wasn't as big of a problem in ME2 but i just ended up using the same gear for almost the whole game in DA:O because of these DLCs.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Belial » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:53 pm UTC

I found Kasumi's mission interesting. It involve infiltrating a high society party to steal stuff. It felt sort-of firefly-esque at moments. Your mileage may vary.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Chewbaccawacca » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:57 am UTC

Firefly-esque? Sign me up! I'm still only halfway through ME though, I keep getting distracted by new games coming out. I need to just take a weekend and buckle down and finish it. Otherwise I may not be able to launch straight into ME3 on release day. :(
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby ArgonV » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:43 pm UTC

Damnit! Now I'm home two hours earlier than expected and the demo isn't out yet..!

Of course, PC players get screwed. PC demo gets released in approximately 4 hours, way later than Xbox and PS3 players...

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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Xeio » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:45 pm UTC

Demo is up now for PC, or at least it is for me since I'm downloading it.

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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby ArgonV » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:00 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:Demo is up now for PC, or at least it is for me since I'm downloading it.


I've got a report to finish and then I'm going to see and old friend in town, since he's only here for one night. Sigh, guess I'll play tomorrow then. Downloading is going nice and fast though, 10 MB/s! :shock:

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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:36 pm UTC

Just finished the PC demo. The combat is amazing (at least as a Vanguard), the cover/rolls system works, I was fully engrossed the whole time. I think I finally understand what it is to be in love with a series.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Chewbaccawacca » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:46 pm UTC

Yeah, I downloaded the Demo to my 360 as I got ready for work this morning. Looking forward to go home and give it a shot! A little nervous though, I hate spoilers for my games. I assume there's nothing to worry about from a demo, but can anybody who's played it already confirm that for me?
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Belial » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:55 pm UTC

Only real spoiler is you see a little bit of a mission later in the game. Salarian homeworld.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:14 pm UTC

No major plot spoilers. Alas, it seems you get the same guns regardless of class, my infiltrator got the same rifle and shotgun as my vanguard.

The voice acting was brilliant both for male and female Shepard.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:20 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:Is it not coming out on Steam? For a game that's coming out next month, Steam certainly has been keeping quiet about it. I'd expect it to be pre-orderable by now.

Not sure if trolling.....

Really wasn't trolling. The first two came out on Steam and I assumed the third would too; Steam and Humble Bundle are pretty much the only ways I buy games these days.

Just to confirm: if I buy the hardcopy, will I have to install Origin or not?
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Dark567 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:25 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
Dark567 wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:Is it not coming out on Steam? For a game that's coming out next month, Steam certainly has been keeping quiet about it. I'd expect it to be pre-orderable by now.

Not sure if trolling.....

Really wasn't trolling. The first two came out on Steam and I assumed the third would too; Steam and Humble Bundle are pretty much the only ways I buy games these days.

Just to confirm: if I buy the hardcopy, will I have to install Origin or not?
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:46 pm UTC

Bugger. :evil:
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:00 pm UTC

Is there anyone with the PC demo who'd like to try multiplayer when it gets unlocked for everyone?
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Chewbaccawacca » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:28 pm UTC

So, downloaded the demo, played it (it was fun!), and then turned my eyes to multiplayer.

Don't know if this needs spoilering, but just to be on the safe side.

Spoiler:
I must say, it's pretty awesome. Bioware predominately making single-player games, and the fact that Mass Effect has been an entirely single-player experiance up to now had been two reasons why I was (understandably) dubious. I don't know how much of the multi-player they're showing for the demo but I've already sunk 4-5 hours into it and as of yet it has not started to get boring (even only playing the two maps). The mix of combat and objectives, while perhaps not overflowing with options, is a nice way to keep things reletivly fresh. The combat is fast and fun (though you could get that through the campaign), but the real treat is the leveling and purchasable (in game currency) equipment packs. It's fun to level each of your characters like you would with Shep in the main game and it's nice being able to try out different loadouts. I personally only tend to play one or two different builds (that I know I'll like) in the main game, since each one is a promise to play the game all the way through with it. The multiplayer is a nice way to just get a quick fix of a different style to play. The equipment packs are a blast for me because you don't know what you're going to get. I'd liken it to purchasing a card pack for a collector game, or perhaps a box of mini-figs for a table-top. Things I've always personally enjoyed.


Basically it's not like it's a second-coming super revolutionary thing, but I really enjoyed it. If you don't like multiplayer than you can probably skip it and not be the worse for wear, though if you've had any thoughts about giving it a go I'd definitely recommend it.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Belial » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:30 pm UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:I thought the organic matter was just used to grow the ridiculous baby reaper? On that note if you can take down some reapers with handheld weapons, surely a huge spaceship would be able to hurt most of them.


Totally forgot to hit this from the previous page, but reading up on it, it seems like the giant Terminator that you fought at the end of ME2 was just the *core* of a new reaper, and that once it was finished it was going to be inserted into one of those big mechanized cuttlefish shells. So basically, you weren't fighting a reaper, you were fighting a reaper's brain flopping around on a table.

This also made me feel better about how ridiculous it would look to have a giant human skeleton flying through space.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Will » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:55 pm UTC

Belial wrote:This also made me feel better about how ridiculously metal it would look to have a giant human skeleton flying through space.

TFTFY
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Belial » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:56 pm UTC

These two things: not mutually exclusive.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Will » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:03 pm UTC

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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Belial » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:32 pm UTC

Wooooow
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby AngrySquirrel » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:36 pm UTC

Just played through the demo on the 360. I'm pretty excited now.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby maybeagnostic » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:02 pm UTC

Still doesn't explain why it looked like Skeletor unless the Reapers were more impressed by the human skeletal system than perseverance, ingenuity, empathy or some other complex/intellectual quality. I guess anatomy is easier to model as a creepy final boss than abstract ideas. On that note, I just realized that both ME1 and ME2 had very similar structure for their final mission- fight your way through hordes of geth/collectors and get to a pretty disappointing final boss whose defeat somehow destroys a Reaper*. I really enjoyed the getting to the final boss part of both games- they did a good job of building up suspense and making me feel like a badass for fighting my way through the enemies; the final enemy in both cases was surprisingly boring and utterly unchallenging though. I hope they change their approach this time. Destroying a single Reaper definitely doesn't look like it will be the epic achievement it was in the first two parts.

* Much more confusing in ME1 where Saren-techno-zombie-thing's death caused Sovereign's shield to collapse for some reason. Was there any explanation for that?
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:06 pm UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:Still doesn't explain why it looked like Skeletor unless the Reapers were more impressed by the human skeletal system than perseverance, ingenuity, empathy or some other complex/intellectual quality. I guess anatomy is easier to model as a creepy final boss than abstract ideas. On that note, I just realized that both ME1 and ME2 had very similar structure for their final mission- fight your way through hordes of geth/collectors and get to a pretty disappointing final boss whose defeat somehow destroys a Reaper*. I really enjoyed the getting to the final boss part of both games- they did a good job of building up suspense and making me feel like a badass for fighting my way through the enemies; the final enemy in both cases was surprisingly boring and utterly unchallenging though. I hope they change their approach this time. Destroying a single Reaper definitely doesn't look like it will be the epic achievement it was in the first two parts.

* Much more confusing in ME1 where Saren-techno-zombie-thing's death caused Sovereign's shield to collapse for some reason. Was there any explanation for that?


Spoiler:
Saren died; Sovereign was controlling him fly-by-wire. The consequences linkdeath from killing Saren's reanimated body temporarily stunned/confused Sovereign.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Will » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:08 pm UTC

I always interpreted them as separate events -- Shep beats Saren at roughly the same time that the fleet outside managed to batter down Sovereign's shields. At least, that makes a lot more bloody sense.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Belial » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:10 pm UTC

It might've been a body image thing. If the new reaper is made out of human maybe it was somehow supposed to be neurologically modelled on a human, and in that case maybe it needed to have a human's vague bodyplan to feel right in its own skin.

Just spitballing here.

As for Saren/Sovereign, I was never totally clear on that either. Unless sovereign committed so many of its processes to mecha-saren that losing them rendered it unable to operate, but in that case the shield should've shut down at the start of the fight, not the end.

Or what Will said, I honestly like that explanation better, as it makes the Reapers less godlike: punching them repeatedly in the face with relativistic shells will eventually kill them, it'll just take a while.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:17 pm UTC

Belial wrote:It might've been a body image thing. If the new reaper is made out of human maybe it was somehow supposed to be neurologically modelled on a human, and in that case maybe it needed to have a human's vague bodyplan to feel right in its own skin.

Just spitballing here.

As for Saren/Sovereign, I was never totally clear on that either. Unless sovereign committed so many of its processes to mecha-saren that losing them rendered it unable to operate, but in that case the shield should've shut down at the start of the fight, not the end.

Or what Will said, I honestly like that explanation better, as it makes the Reapers less godlike: punching them repeatedly in the face with relativistic shells will eventually kill them, it'll just take a while.




I see it as more like Sovereign didn't use 'safely remove hardware', got unlucky. It's not a case of resources, it's just that the system can't cope with an unexpected termination. It's like with modern transcranial stimulation, if you pull the electrodes off when it's running, you go blind for a few seconds. Same thing if you pull the connection to your creepy cyber-necromantic thrall, but for temporary blindness read temporary shield failure. It's not that great an explanation, but I think it fits the storytelling best.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Xeio » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:22 pm UTC

Belial wrote:As for Saren/Sovereign, I was never totally clear on that either. Unless sovereign committed so many of its processes to mecha-saren that losing them rendered it unable to operate, but in that case the shield should've shut down at the start of the fight, not the end.

Or what Will said, I honestly like that explanation better, as it makes the Reapers less godlike: punching them repeatedly in the face with relativistic shells will eventually kill them, it'll just take a while.
I thought it was more intended to be simultaneous events.

Remember that just before starting the fight Shepard technically did whatever she needed to on the console to wrest control of the citadel from Sovereign (at least, I think that's what she was doing?). I'd think controlling Saren was just the last ditch effort to take back the control center and once that failed then the Citadel was already in the process of disabling Sovereign's control.


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