Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

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ArgonV
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Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby ArgonV » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:39 pm UTC

Surprised there isn't a topic yet. How does everyone feel about this? I'm enjoying it a lot so far (4 temples cleared) and I'm surprised how accurate the Wiimotionplus is.

But that's also a minor problem. I'm left-handed and Link isn't. This can sometimes be very challenging, especially when using the net to catch things. But also the sword moves. I've learned to compensate, but sometimes I need to do things with my backhand or in mirror image, which sucks.
Also, the messages that appear again every loaded save game. Yes, I know a blue rupee is worth 5 rupees. It has been since Ocarina of Time. I know that's an amber relic, I've got 30 of damned things already. Also the annoying potion lady that keeps reminding you you can upgrade potions over at her husband.

But yeah, so far every dungeons feels fresh and interesting, the quest for every plot coupon is entertaining and the controls are nice and immersive. It's just... Zelda music used to be earworms, but other than the main theme, there haven't really been any yet. I'm also sincerely doubting Ghirarim's sanity, I think Fi is some sort of AI construct and it would appear (click if you've completed the desert temple)
Spoiler:
Hyrule was once far more advanced, since they had intelligent robots and all that jazz

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Telchar » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:02 am UTC

The probability calculation that Fi does is definitely Data-esque.

I haven't really noticed a difference between vanilla wiimote and motionplus but I didn't play a lot of games that required accurate motion detection on the Wii precisely because they kinda sucked.

And +1 on the "going over shit you've seen every time you reload" bus.

And maybe it's just me, but the genderless humanoid badguy seems to be a theme for Nintendo now.
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Coin » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:45 pm UTC

Didn't Link use to be left-handed in A Link to the Past?
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby ArgonV » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:48 pm UTC

He was left-handed up until Twilight Princess for Gamecube. For the Wii, they changed him to a rightie (by mirroring the whole game), since ~90% of humans are right-handed. But it wasn't a problem in Twilight Princess, since the controls weren't one-on-one. In Skyward Sword, they are.

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:29 pm UTC

I thought he was ambidextrous actually; he always held his shield facing Mt. Doom (which was to the north), so when walking east, would swing his sword right handed.

It had something to do with the young boys of Hyrule training to use magic blahblahblah they just mirrored the sprites to save on animation.
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby ArgonV » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:08 pm UTC

Well, look at images from Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask. Quite clearly left-handed. Sure, a few are right-handed, but those are most likely fan made or mirrored. All official and in-game art is left-handed.

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:19 pm UTC

Yeah, this is an old discussion:
From the wiki
Link is left-handed, although this detail has changed over time, with his sword hand being different between games. The Adventure of Link's instruction booklet describes Link setting off "with a magical sword in his left hand and a magical shield in his right".[17] In A Link to the Past, he alternates hands, but this is due to sprite mirroring. The reason for this is explained in the official Nintendo Player's guide as a Hyrulian superstition that requires the shield to always face Death Mountain (located to the North) to protect oneself from the evil powers originating within the mountain.[18] Starting with Link's Awakening, Link holds his sword in his left hand and his shield in his right, no matter what direction he is facing. In The Minish Cap, however, Link returns to alternately holding his weapon in the right or the left hand, depending on his orientation. At the beginning of the Four Swords Plus (Four Swords Adventures) manga, Link is referred to as the "left-handed hero" after defeating pirates that were raiding a Hylian town. In addition, Link's figurine description in The Wind Waker lists his "manual preference" as left. However, in the animated TV series and the Wii version of Twilight Princess, Link is right-handed, but the latter was done to better mirror the game's control scheme. In the game's official artwork he is shown holding his sword in his left hand. In the GameCube version, Link remains left-handed, as the game uses a traditional control scheme.[19] Skyward Sword will thus be the first game in the series to feature a definite right-handed Link, with even the concept art reflecting the fact.
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Lucrece » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:00 am UTC

I despise the wii-motion controls with a passion. Especially with shooting/flying the beetle since if you need to turn sharply and the cursor nears a corner, I have to recalibrate since the controls go apeshit.

Also, I'll do a reverse slash sometimes but since I recently did a regular one it won't register as reverse and repeat the regular slash.

With that said, having fun. Impa's the shit and Pipit is handsome ;D

P.S. On the androgynous villan trope, that's particularly common in the Japanese game industry. They might not have the over homophobia of the west, but they certainly make up for that in gender policing.

P.S.S. I hate this Zelda incarnation. Those bangs are abomination and I want the royal dress and elegant lady look of Twilight Princess back. God knows there are enough pedo fantasies of doe-eyed peasant girl-women in games. I think it was a step back from Twilight Princess where Zelda gets on the horse with you and sticks some arrows on Ganondorf.
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Joeldi » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:55 pm UTC

The beetle and the bird work well for me, my only problem with the controls is sometimes I try to jab and it registers as a slash. That sucks.
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby meridian » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:03 pm UTC

Woo! I'm finally playing this and I am happy!

I was trying to convince myself for a while that Zelda was off battling her way through her part of the levels, but have finally been dissuaded by Impa's presence. Definitely sad over that. She should go back to being a pirate queen, not some meh school girl that can't seem to handle much. (I am just about ready to start the desert, I have no idea how far that is.)

My biggest problem with the wii-mote and handling is that the sensor where I am playing is at the base of the tv. This is supposed to allow us to sit while playing, but it's not always registering my upward motions. I have been blowing myself up frequently trying to throw bombs.

Oh! Bombs! I have always wanted this bomb flower feature, I just didn't know the words for it.

what other new features do you like/hate? Do the shield gauges become a problem later on?
(I don't think there were any spoilers in here. I'll post more later.)
Spoiler:
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:09 pm UTC

There's BOMBS!?!?!

YOU RUINED THE GAME FOREVER WITH YOUR SPOILER!
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby meridian » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:51 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:There's BOMBS!?!?!

YOU RUINED THE GAME FOREVER WITH YOUR SPOILER!

Allow me to gloat.

*clears throat*

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Spoiler:
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Ghostbear » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:45 pm UTC

I got the game a few days ago, and so far I really like it. I'm surprised no one else seems to like Zelda herself very much in it- she's definitely has the most personality of the 3D console Zeldas. Presumably we find out more as the story goes on, but she's definitely having her own adventure (with Impa's help or not) at the same time as Link too, instead of being locked in a castle somewhere and forgotten.

The controls sometimes give me a bit of trouble- I'm having a frustrating time getting the mini-game with the music in the Lumpy Pumpkin right, even though I know exactly what I'm supposed to do. I'd probably say it's my least favorite of Ocarina / Majora's Mask / Windwaker / Twilight Princess / Skyward Sword, but it's still very much a Zelda game, and still very fun. It just has lofty competition with the others.

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby EmptySet » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:26 am UTC

I find the motion controls a bit wonky. Often it gets confused and starts interpreting the motions completely wrong - like, I'll wave the remote from right to left, and it will keep thinking it was top-to-bottom, or left-top to right-bottom, or just a different random direction every time. It's really frustrating when you're trying to fight something that requires a specific slash direction and the game just freaks out and decides you're not allowed to use motion controls any more and it will just pick a direction at random instead.

I'm also not really seeing how the motion controls are so immersive and revolutionary and the shining example of everything motion controls can be like some reviews have been claiming. So far I haven't really seen much that couldn't be handled perfectly well with a traditional controller. Indeed, even in Ocarina of Time you could control the direction of your swing with the control stick; the only difference is that in Skyward Sword it actually matters, while in earlier games it didn't. It's better than the ridiculous waggle in Twilight Princess, but it's still not selling me on motion controls being better than a normal controller.

meridian wrote:My biggest problem with the wii-mote and handling is that the sensor where I am playing is at the base of the tv. This is supposed to allow us to sit while playing, but it's not always registering my upward motions. I have been blowing myself up frequently trying to throw bombs.


I've got the opposite problem - throwing is okay but it doesn't seem to register rolling very well. Maybe because my bar is on top of the TV? I also have trouble catching stuff on the ground with the bug net because it doesn't want to go low enough.

Oh! Bombs! I have always wanted this bomb flower feature, I just didn't know the words for it.

what other new features do you like/hate? Do the shield gauges become a problem later on?
(I don't think there were any spoilers in here. I'll post more later.)


Being able to bag the bomb flowers is good.

I haven't had any problem with shield gauges so far. In fact, I think my shield has only taken damage once, and that was when the camera was screwing me by not letting me see anything. Speaking of which, not having control of the camera irritates me. I've fallen off things several times because the camera has decided to go off in a weird direction while I'm moving. I've also had it sit behind something so I can't see at all several times, usually in the middle of combat, which is not helpful.

I don't like flying. It's boring and the controls annoy me. It's like the boat in Wind Waker except you have to flap your arm up and down all the time, and it doesn't have the awesome music the boat did. Fortunately you don't have to fly around too much.

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby ekolis » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:23 am UTC

Maybe it's just me, but shields aren't quite as useful as one might expect... mostly because if you attack with your shield up, you have to raise it again when you're done attacking; Link won't do so automatically. :(

Also, is it just me or does Fi sounds an awful lot like GLaDOS?
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby ArgonV » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:00 pm UTC

ekolis wrote:Maybe it's just me, but shields aren't quite as useful as one might expect... mostly because if you attack with your shield up, you have to raise it again when you're done attacking; Link won't do so automatically. :(

Also, is it just me or does Fi sounds an awful lot like GLaDOS?


You know you can prevent damage to your shield by bashing at the right time? 'Cause it took me ages and 4 shields to figure that one out :oops:

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby buddy431 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:37 pm UTC

I'm not a fan of the motion controls. Being able to swing the sword in different directions is sort of cool, but it's really annoying when there are so many times that you have to swing it in a specific direction. Even the Bokoblins are blocking now, and you have to hit them in the right direction (and the electric ones zap you if you screw it up). I agree heartily with Emptyset that there's nothing really that couldn't be done without a controller, and I feel like I could be more precise doing so. It's not like I really feel like I'm swinging a sword with the motion controller, so it's just one arbitrary set of actions vs. another (I played Twilight Princess on Gamecube, so I can't comment on how these controls compare to those).

I am loathing not being able to move the camera. I'm so used to using the C-stick on Gamecube to get the camera angle just right, especially while running around (you could sort of steer by moving the camera with the C-stick and keeping the control stick forward, which at times was easier for me). Now, the only way to manipulate the camera is to do a z lock, which only points it the direction your character is (and completely screws you up if there's something targetable in the region).

I do like the item selection. The bug net's kind of cool, though I'm having trouble getting the proper swinging action down. I've never really had any trouble steering the beetle, and I think it opens up some interesting new puzzles. It's fun to drop bombs on the enemies too.

I like the stamina gauge as well. It makes you have to think a little bit more carefully about climbing up ivy or dashing around at top speed.

Fi disappoints me, at least so far. I'm really not detecting much of a personality. She does those calculations, but she otherwise doesn't act in a way that makes me think of her as an analytical figure. Her ice-skating routines at the end of the dungeons just seem to come out of nowhere, and don't really mesh with her "85% probability that Zelda's been here", or whatever. I do like the mechanic of being able to target an enemy and ask her for info.

Kukiel cracks me up for some reason. I'm not quite sure why.

Flying's OK. I actually liked the sailing in Windwaker, though, so maybe I'm atypical in that regard. I don't know why, but I really like skydiving over the pumpkin patch and getting the birds to do an aerial formation with me.
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby EmptySet » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:18 am UTC

I would have liked the sailing in Windwaker more if I could just cruise along and listen to the music, rather than having to dodge those stupid shark things constantly. Because clearly what you need to do to prevent travel getting old is to force the player to pay attention to it by demanding an unnecessary button press every five seconds, instead of just letting them relax and stretch for a bit.

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Deva » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:35 am UTC

(Currently at the Water Dungeon.)

Likes the motion controls. Performed significantly better than Twilight Princess's controls. Almost always works and rarely messes up the calibration. Accidently swung sometimes while moving the Wii Remote to the starting position of the intended slice. Experienced troubles on the Forest Dungeon boss too, probably due to camera issues. Felt accurate outside of those instances. Enhances the immersion more than a button press and joystick movement.

Appreciates the Beetle as a scouting device (especially after the Speed upgrade).

Hates the net. Feels like waving around a log. Cannot swing it. Wafts it in a direction.

Neutral on Fi. Have you observed her face while singing? Ghastly. Probably fabricates the statistics too. Gave eighty-five percent figures too frequently. Does not fit her (apparent) personality, though. Overlooks this due to generally helpful advice.

Disappointed by the sky overworld. Does not reward exploration. Do not bother searching any island without a chest to open. Warmed up to flying eventually. Still despises the birds carrying rupees. Took damage from one of those dinky creatures. Should have devoured it and regained health.

Pleased with Zelda. Attempted to murder Link twice in the initial ten minutes. Only rescued him the first time due to a witness. Laid the groundwork for a person of action.

Spoiler about the scene following the Desert Dungeon boss.
Spoiler:
Ghirahim: Curse you for foiling my Evil Plan again. Should have killed you the first time. Was too soft. Prepare to die...eventually. See you at the next dungeon after you screw up that plan. Totally did not hear where Impa told you to go either. Farewell.

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby ctjl96 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:51 am UTC

Welp, that's what I get for reading the spoiler before finishing the game. Character flaw of mine. :P

The game is overall meh. Simply meh. I expected much more out of Nintendo, this being their 25th anniversary game; however, much of the gameplay is frustrating and I've found myself saying "are you fucking kidding me?" about thirty times or so. Specifically, a lot of the enemies are complete shit. I just got to the Lanayru Desert area, and I ran into this one little fuck that curls up in his shell like some sort of electric snake-eel thing and then barrels at you like a fucking tire -- what the hell?

The storyline is fantastic, as usual, however. :)

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Manial » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:59 pm UTC

I have to agree with the motion controls being generally sucky. Maybe I just have a dodgy wiimote (It's one of the gold ones that came with the game though), but a lot of the time the sword will take longer to swing around from a different stance than the Bokoblin's so I end up getting zapped a lot. Even when it does respond in time, a lot of the time it ends up being at a different angle than I wanted. Also, like Lucrece, whenever I do a sharp turn with the beetle or when flying, it'll spaz out and turn in the exact opposite direction. Mostly this is fine because I'm usually trying to do a 180, but it can get pretty aggravating for precise flying.

Don't get me wrong, I normally love motion controls, it's just that Wii Sports Resort did 1-to-1 swordplay so much better, years ago.

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Lucrece » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:34 am UTC

The game also has pretty short game-time. It has zero replay value. I got buyer's remorse after dumping 70 bucks on it. I cleared it in 4 days. The fight with Demise where you have to catch lightning before he does something will display what's so annoying about the controls. Much prefer Twilight Princess. Fuck Nintendo's turn to gimmicks and "family" fluff games.

This game makes me think of the Simpsons, where people watch it for what it used to be. That's the case with this game. It runs on nostalgia. Remove Link and the Zelda brand, and it becomes a forgetable fantasy adventure game.
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby EmptySet » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:37 am UTC

Manial wrote:I have to agree with the motion controls being generally sucky. Maybe I just have a dodgy wiimote (It's one of the gold ones that came with the game though), but a lot of the time the sword will take longer to swing around from a different stance than the Bokoblin's so I end up getting zapped a lot.


The solution for this is that you don't actually have to draw the sword back to swing it. If you hold it out to the right, then just flick your wrist further right, it will still do the left-right slash animation starting from Link's far left. Same applies for holding it to one side and flicking it vertically, if you find that easier.

Another way I've found is to bring the remote around while it's pointed backwards. The game doesn't seem to update where Link is holding his sword if the remote points back too far, so if you bring it around in a full 360 over your head, it will instantly jump from right to left. If that makes sense. It's a little difficult to describe.

ctjl96 wrote:I just got to the Lanayru Desert area, and I ran into this one little fuck that curls up in his shell like some sort of electric snake-eel thing and then barrels at you like a fucking tire -- what the hell?


Bop it with your shield when it's about to hit you and it'll fall over, it's pretty easy once you get the hang of it. I hate them too, though, because half the time when I try to lock on so I can block them the camera decides I actually want to look at something twenty metres away in the opposite direction. As I mentioned, I reeeaaaaally dislike not having proper camera control.

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:27 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:The game also has pretty short game-time. It has zero replay value.

Define short. I'm not criticizing; I'm genuinely curious, since I've been hearing 25-30 hours if you ignore side quests, which is plenty long for me.

But really, how many Zelda games have had much, if any replayability outside of seeing how much you can sequence break or no-shield challenges or whatever?

I need to get back into this game. I just so badly wish it was in HD.

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Lucrece » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:20 pm UTC

I beat it in about 30 hours. In one week. Did the sidequests, which are stupidly simple and short. The game is EASY. If anything, what complicates the game are the unreliable motion controls. Got the Hylian shield as well, all upgrades.

Your point about Zelda games is exactly why I think this game feels unnecessary. It's recycling instead of innovating outside of silly gimmicks like motion controls. It's a repackaged, stale damsel in distress fantasy adventure game. At some point a shitty story has to keep a game from a fucking 9+ score with critics. The dungeons and puzzles weren't even that elaborate. It was by far the easiest Zelda game of the bunch.

This is popping up with the Japanese developers. They just repackage aesthetically and throw some gimmicks, and call that innovation in hopes that long established franchises will cloak the product from further scrutiny. Square has been doing this with Final Fantasy, most notably FFXIV.
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:58 pm UTC

So you spent 30 hours playing something you didn't like? I'm honestly confused here. That seems like a reasonably long game in 2011/12 considering average game length seems to be dropping significantly.

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Lucrece » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:40 pm UTC

I played an alright game which by the end of the playthrough I found both overpriced and gameplay-wise lacking for what I was receiving, i.e. a recycled experience and some technical frustrations. A game doesn't need to be a 8+ to play it to completion.

30 hours is hardly a sufficient amount. I spent a good 50+ hours just on a regular playthrough of Banjo Kazooie/Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Final Fantasy X, even Twilight Princess gave me more playtime. I've squeezed 100+ hours out of Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2. I've gotten close to 80 hours on Super Mario Galaxy and similar for Super Mario Galaxy 2, and even more on my wonderful experience with Super Mario Sunshine. Batman: Arkham Asylum was close to 70 hours and Arkham City looks to be around the same ballpark. I played Bully on my Wii and the playthrough gave me 60+ hours of content.

30 hours is a pittance, particularly for the price of a game that also required a specific wii-mote upgrade so it either required the $70 bundle or an outright new wiimote for $90 total.

Replayability and attachment to an explorable world and people is important in my games. I loved Zelda: Oracle of Ages & Seasons since I did feel involved with the world and characters, and there were many nook and cranies and side-quests I could explore for pleasant surprises. The skyward sword side-quests were simple, straightforward and the rewards ordinary.

At first, I balked in shock when Gamespot gave them a 7.5. Given that they give crap like World Of Casinocraft a 9.5, I usually need to scrutinize their reviews. I thought they gave SS a 7.5 to garner attention, any publicity being good publicity. Then I played the game, and I agreed with the review. It's an okay game using the Zelda name to hide any cutting of corners that would've been called out on any other newcoming fantasy adventure game.
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:31 pm UTC

I'm not sure what your point there is. You played some long games. Okay? Those aren't actually where the industry is going, and there's a lot of highly-regarded games that are really short and sold for full price. If you don't like the game, resell it for $40 or $50, now you've no longer spent $70 on 30 hours of entertainment, since I guess you determine value by money per time?

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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Belial » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:05 pm UTC

Yeah, determining game value by playtime is the leading reason that JRPGs are such bloated crap.
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:36 pm UTC

Not to mention the games you've listed, and the amount of game time milked from them, is generally an opinion stat. I can't imagine sinking 100 hrs into ME2 or Batman Arkham Asylum. If you find a game fun, you'll sink a ton of time into it.
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Lucrece
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby Lucrece » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:24 am UTC

Endless Mike wrote:I'm not sure what your point there is. You played some long games. Okay? Those aren't actually where the industry is going, and there's a lot of highly-regarded games that are really short and sold for full price. If you don't like the game, resell it for $40 or $50, now you've no longer spent $70 on 30 hours of entertainment, since I guess you determine value by money per time?


You've asked ME what I found lacking with the playtime. I answered you. If an answer other than "30 hours is enough for what I'm willing to pay" seems puzzling for you, you might as well have not asked for a definition other than what you find sufficient for yourself.

Those aren't where the industry is going? WTH? Mass Effect is one of the breakthrough franchises in gaming. Dragon Age was up there for the RPG genre. Fucking Super Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Bros Brawl were the flagship titles of the Wii console. We'll have to disagree on your claims of where the industry is headed.

Belial wrote:Yeah, determining game value by playtime is the leading reason that JRPGs are such bloated crap.


Depends on what people accept for satisfactory playtime. JRPG's are in decline for a reason, whereas western RPG's are running strong. The difference is that western title provide something other than grind and casino style reward systems. In a game like Mass Effect, or Dragon Age, one playthrough won't be enough to even scratch all the possible story/development branching you can experience with the game. Several difficulty modes also create an entirely different experience, and JRPG's haven't caught to the concept of DLC's yet.

Izawwlgood wrote:Not to mention the games you've listed, and the amount of game time milked from them, is generally an opinion stat. I can't imagine sinking 100 hrs into ME2 or Batman Arkham Asylum. If you find a game fun, you'll sink a ton of time into it.


If the game will allow you to do so. Some games are fun for people in that they want to repeaat them. That's not necessarily the case with Arkham Asylum or Mass Effect 2 because of the exploration and roleplaying elements. The world is far more expansive and reactive relative to Zelda, and there's plenty of post-game or side-quest content straying from the main mission.

I could beat Super Mario Galaxy's main story, but there were still myriad courses and modes I had not yet experienced that were available to me after a 40 hour playthrough of the main storyline. It's not just opinion -- it's how much content you pack into the game and how well a game lends itself to let the player sandbox and create/simulate new content for him/herself after the main story.

Skyward Sword was linear as it could get, has no post-game, and the sidequests were brief and simple to complete. Nothing close to previous Zelda installments where you actually had to pay attention to previous dialogue and environments to pick up clues.

I'll give you another example allowing the player to branch off in content and decide how much he invests in a game. The DA2, for all its flaws as a game, brought the two latest DLC's where you had the option of just clearing through the main quest, or branching off into more difficult puzzles with worthwhile rewards. You could skip the Duke's Library vault altogether, or you could put the paintings together for the big reward to solving more complex but optional puzzles. In Mark of the Assassin, you could decide how to go about the castle, whether by playing the stealth route, or deciding for combat.

In the DLC, there is even a mini-quest for each present companion, so not only could you bring a different companion for a different side-quest, dialogue, and reward, but you could pair it with the route you took in the Chateau earlier and whether you did certain sidequests before or not.

Maybe 30 hours is enough playtime for you, but for me it isn't. And it most certainly isn't an unhealthy expectation that has lead with bloat ala JRPG's. Games can pack more content without adding grind or repetitive tasks to take up time without adding to a new experience. Playtime isn't the sole measure by which I value a game, but you can rest assured that I will like a game that gave me a larger amount of exciting experiences and involvement than a similarly good game with less enjoyment longevity.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

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jakes1487
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby jakes1487 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:51 pm UTC

Just beat it (a couple hours ago). Some random thoughts:

The final battle was, I think, too hard. Approximate number of game overs for me on each Zelda game's final boss battle: ALttP 6, LA 3, OoT 6, MM 0 (I did Fierce Deity), WW 1, TP 3, SS 25. Maybe there's just something I was missing.
Spoiler:
On the first form, at first I thought it was ridiculously hard but eventually I developed a tactic that unfortunately took advantage of his AI: stand directly in front of him, wait for him to begin an attack, backflip out of the way, run in and spin attack. Since I kept dying on his second form, I got the first form down to the point that I only lost two hearts on the first form. But for the second form, is there any way to dodge that dash attack he does when he sees you trying to charge lightning? I eventually gave up trying to charge lightning at all after the first time when he doesn't realize that's what you're doing, and instead jump around until he shoots his lightning and then attack him while he's charging. Also, how many times is he supposed to dodge your finishing blow? He definitely dodged mine two or three times before I could hit him with it.
I did not have this much trouble with any of the other bosses in Skyward Sword--I don't think I ever died more than once on any of them.

My thoughts on the controls: My arm is sore. Yes, swinging the Wiimote 1:1 is not like swinging a real sword, especially when Link only does one of about twelve preset animations; yes, the patterns of enemies blocking is artificial. But the fact that enemies block at all makes each encounter take a little more thought; flailing, the equivalent of mashing B, will work less than half the time, and for the harder enemies it will never work. It's a new mechanic that I'm happy to see, and though it is not as developed as it could be, it was excellent for a first attempt. (At least excellent compared to most of the motion controlled stuff that all three major game companies come up with.) But there's one more thing: it puts you more viscerally into the game. Not just the fighting: drawing the sword for the first time where you actually have to go through the motions is infinitely more epic than Ocarina of Time's "(A) Grab".

IGN had a poll where users voted Skyward Sword vs. Ocarina of Time in various categories. Skyward Sword won in every category. I agree with those categories, as well as others: Skyward Sword improves on Ocarina of Time in controls, graphics, animation, engine, story, character development, detail, scale, innovation in dungeon design, multi-use areas, enemy design and AI, boss design, and item design. The one category Skyward Sword failed me in is music: as far as execution, Skyward Sword had a live orchestra for only one track and MIDIs for the rest; and as far as content, Ocarina of Time's music is both better and better integrated into the gameplay.

Yet I like Ocarina of Time better. I also think I like Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess better than Skyward Sword. I can't quite place it, but I think part of it is this: Ocarina of Time, partly because it was not finished as intended, points outside itself a lot--that is, things you find in the game, whether it's what people say or paths you can't yet walk on leading off the map, give indications that the game is part of a larger world that you just don't yet have access to.
Spoiler:
Also, since in Ocarina of Time you only succeed in temporarily sealing Ganondorf away but not permanently, and because the story leading to Ganondorf's rise seems not inevitable, the game leaves you wondering: if you had done something different as a kid, maybe you could get the Triforce, beat Ganondorf once and for all, and end the series.
Skyward Sword, instead, gives you the whole "overworld" immediately, and there is nothing pointing outside the three isolated areas on the ground.
Spoiler:
Moreover, it tells you that evil will never be permanently defeated but only sealed away, cutting off all hope for a complete victory. But finally, it doesn't explain WHY this is the case; any explanation of why would lead to the possibility of breaking the cycle among the games.
Last edited by jakes1487 on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:45 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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matt96
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Re: Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword

Postby matt96 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:18 am UTC

ArgonV wrote:
ekolis wrote:Maybe it's just me, but shields aren't quite as useful as one might expect... mostly because if you attack with your shield up, you have to raise it again when you're done attacking; Link won't do so automatically. :(

Also, is it just me or does Fi sounds an awful lot like GLaDOS?


You know you can prevent damage to your shield by bashing at the right time? 'Cause it took me ages and 4 shields to figure that one out :oops:

I went down to the surface at the beginning of the game and got my shield broken because I was shield bashing too early, I then sprinted past the flower things I forget the name of, because the game wouldn't let me go back to the sky, and I was too much of an idiot to realize you could cut their head/bulb in half by swinging the sword in the direction their mouth is open, I only realized that it was possible to kill them that way when I was bored and looked at some of the hint videos


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