Kerbal Space Program

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:35 am UTC

A lander based on Kulantan's dual rover thing + ISA MapSat Pack + A half dozen (or more) attempts to get even in the neighborhood of it + two destroyed rovers in the process =

I made it to the Polar Anomaly of Kerbin.
Spoiler:
screenshot13.png
Neat!


Extra Spoiler image - map included with all Kerbin anomalies located (I think)

Spoiler:
screenshot14.png
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:14 pm UTC

Stupid question, but do air-breathing jets work on any planet with atmo? Or only Kerbin?

How do you prevent your rover from flipping over/what do you do if it flips over?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:18 pm UTC

Air-breathing engines require an atmosphere with oxygen in it. So Kerbin and Laythe are the only places they'll work.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:24 pm UTC

Sweet. I poked around the mods a bit, but couldn't find anything that did this;
Any atmospheric -> fuel thingies? I'd love to land something on a planet that generated rocket fuel from atmosphere.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:43 pm UTC

There's a kethane mod that allows you to drill into planets and moons for kethane, which can then be converted into liquid fuel. I've never used it myself, because I like to play with the vanilla version, but this should point you in the right direction: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/23979-Kethane-Pack-0-1-3-Find-it-mine-it-burn-it!-%28project-has-a-new-home%29

Scuttlebutt has it that in-situ resource utilization like this will be added in the next major patch, so this should be good practice for when that day comes. You'll be able to recreate the "Mars Direct" mission profile with it.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:09 pm UTC

Release the space plane!

This game is addictive.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby yurell » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:41 pm UTC

I've been spending all my time trying to get rendezvous to work ... so far I can get within fifty kilometres of my target, which is a start, but I always end up running out fuel by that time :P

So far, Jebediah Kerman has been my only fatality (due to the clamps not releasing when intended, causing his rocket to explode dramatically); everyone else has been returned to the ground safely, with Bill Kerman being the first Kerbal in space.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:47 pm UTC

Exley maneuver.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:57 am UTC

Aerobraking is ridiculously good. I just did a mission to Laythe using Jool to areobrake. Burning from LKO I only used around one FL-T800 (the largest of the small diameter tanks) to do the whole thing. Of course that is with no means to return, but I saved so much fuel by letting Jool's atmosphere do lots of the work. I'm looking forward to reentry heat so that it is less of a free lunch.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:14 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Exley maneuver.

Works great for planets, moons or even captured asteroids. Works like shit for spacecraft.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:26 am UTC

Kulantan wrote:Aerobraking is ridiculously good. I just did a mission to Laythe using Jool to areobrake. Burning from LKO I only used around one FL-T800 (the largest of the small diameter tanks) to do the whole thing. Of course that is with no means to return, but I saved so much fuel by letting Jool's atmosphere do lots of the work. I'm looking forward to reentry heat so that it is less of a free lunch.


Aerobraking is a brilliant thing once you get the hang of it, but it's easy to cock up without being very precise with your periapsis. There's a bug at the moment where your periapsis will suddenly change just before you hit atmosphere, and that can really screw up your aerobraking if you're not careful.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby wst » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:13 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Exley maneuver.
You keep saying this, but I can't find what it is, but it sounds useful. Can you explain?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:59 pm UTC

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:39 pm UTC

So, in other words, it's a back-up plan in case you cock up your hohmann transfer orbit?

I've been doing what it describes for some time, I just didn't realize there was a name for it.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:44 pm UTC


Oh, that is clever. One great thing about it is that it doesn't care about inclination. You just have to do the first burn at the ascending or descending node and you'll always get a encounter without worrying about inclination at all.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Yakk » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:02 pm UTC

The image was posted by "Sir Exley", so... I would take the name with a grain of salt.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:10 pm UTC

Kulantan wrote:

Oh, that is clever. One great thing about it is that it doesn't care about inclination. You just have to do the first burn at the ascending or descending node and you'll always get a encounter without worrying about inclination at all.

You can correct for inclination at the peri- or apoapsis of the orbit. I would suggest doing it there to maximize fuel efficiency. I think, unless I'm misunderstanding something about what you're describing?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:46 am UTC

Well you could, but I was merely using it to do a quick mission to Minmus without caring about landing site. So once I had an encounter with Minmus I just did a small correction to hit the it rather than pass by. No need to worry about inclination.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby tastelikecoke » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:03 am UTC

So, about this game...
Spoiler:
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WOOOOOOO

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:49 pm UTC

+1 :D
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:07 pm UTC

Has anyone else built a nuclear tug (or any type of tug) that pulls rather than pushes. I just tried one out to help with wobble, it did help a bit (if I didn't try and steer). But it also reduced the speed I got out of tug. I had double the number of engines that got me single digit acceleration with more mass on a different ship. Instead I got zero point something meters per second. Is there some kind of bug with force transfer across docking ports?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:12 pm UTC

Kulantan wrote:Has anyone else built a nuclear tug (or any type of tug) that pulls rather than pushes. I just tried one out to help with wobble, it did help a bit (if I didn't try and steer). But it also reduced the speed I got out of tug. I had double the number of engines that got me single digit acceleration with more mass on a different ship. Instead I got zero point something meters per second. Is there some kind of bug with force transfer across docking ports?

My space train concept pulled fuel tanks along behind it. It had roughly the correct amount of acceleration I'd expect based on other tugs which pushed. That is, it was slightly quicker than my more basic pushing design because it had 8 engines instead of 3, and approximately double the mass.

In unrelated news, I think I have stumbled upon the best kerbal video ever: KSP Build Fly Dream Trailer. Absolutely breathtaking.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:51 pm UTC

But yea, the game doesn't handle forces along multiple docking ports very well. I made a 4 or 5 module long space train and while thrusting or under 1x time, the thing was just all wobble. Quantum Struts might fix the problem.

Also, Sly, I notice you don't seem to use groups; probably be easier than clicking on everything?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:01 pm UTC

Groups are one of those things I just can't get into the habit of setting up. And then I'm in-flight and thinking to myself "damn, it would really be quite useful if I had thought to set up some groups". It doesn't cause me too many problems though, and clicking stuff makes me feel like I have a finer degree of control.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:06 pm UTC

The biggest thing I want to start doing is grouping my RCS thrusters to be able to turn them off on the inner most modules. Otherwise, grouping can't be used to transfer fuel, I don't think, since you can't have multiple windows open for a fuel transfer. I think?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Will » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:07 am UTC

Grabbed this off steam on Friday, ended up losing my entire weekend to it.

Does anyone have experience building large space stations? I've started to put one together but it's reaching the point where trying to control it causes it to wobble horrendously. I'm worried it's going to break apart one of these days.

This is what I've got so far:
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:46 am UTC

The answer is that you'll need to use larger segments and therefore less docking ports or use quantum struts. The docking ports just are too wobbly most of the time if you building large things with lots of torque or structures with lots of docking connections.

Quantum struts work quite well to prevent wobble between docked sections and provide another thing that uses electricity which is otherwise severely underused. There is even non quantum version that looks pretty much like a normal strut when deployed.

Finally you can just not care about wobble. The ISS doesn't rotate to align for docking (as far as I am aware). So you could just never rotate the beast and do the alignment purely with the visiting ship, which is a bit harder but not by much.

On a different note, I tried quantum struts with my pull design tug and it still had the same bug. It actually visually pulled the part connected to the quantum struts off the part below it. Though the part didn't actually separate properly so when I powered the engines down it visually reconnected and everything was as it was before starting the engines. Something screwy is definitely going on, I think most of the force is being expended trying to pull the ship apart for some reason. I then launched a version with the docking port on the other end so it was a standard pushing tug and everything was fine. I guess I stick to pushing my ships rather than pulling.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Technical Ben » Thu May 02, 2013 10:13 pm UTC

Using tri or double couplers can help. But it's more work. I tend to use at most 2 or 3 docks in a row, and any more have to spur off a center. So you end up with tree or comb shaped stations. Using time acceleration (this turns off physics movements and wobble) and always turning OFF SAS will help too. Other than that, it's waiting to see if larger parts reduce the part count or Squad look to twerk the physics/part meshes to fix it.

There are some amazing things you can do in this game. Really "fun" in the "ok, how do I get this transfer orbit to work while aerobraking across the planet, it's moon and leave enough fuel to land on that rocky moon? Hmmm, I took too much payload, quick eject!" way.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby yurell » Fri May 10, 2013 1:36 am UTC

Because quantum struts are incredibly balanced.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Will » Fri May 10, 2013 6:17 am UTC

I ended up downloading a kajillion mods, including quantum struts. I also ended up ending the flight on my space station. And then again on the one I built to replace it! The third one is still there, though. For now.

Also, I built a 65-ton space station with mostly B9 aerospace parts and put it in orbit around the Mun! (Spoiler'd for big)
Spoiler:
Image

It has built-in fuel and monopropellant tanks to support a permanent taxi service to and from the Munar surface. Also...
Spoiler:
Image

A cargo bay that will eventually hold the lander!
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri May 10, 2013 3:19 pm UTC

That is super cool Will.

I haven't checked the mods lately; is there more to do with electricity now?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Fri May 10, 2013 7:14 pm UTC

I haven't seen anything. I think electricity is waiting on the resources update. Once we have to worry about life support I think electricity will be a good deal more useful.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Technical Ben » Sat May 11, 2013 12:34 pm UTC

Yeah, resources have been pushed back a bit sadly as they will take more time. Most mods make good use of them though.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat May 11, 2013 5:49 pm UTC

Sweet. One of the mods I mucked with included medium and large sized ion engines, which as you can imagine suck up an enormous amount of electricity. It's neat seeing how even a handful of large solar panels don't sufficiently power a couple.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Josephine » Sun May 12, 2013 12:09 am UTC

I used that mod, and I found a nuclear reactor model somebody made, gave it a really high weight, and made it an RTG with something like 300 power output. Worked pretty well.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Will » Wed May 15, 2013 3:49 am UTC

Successful mission to Minmus!
screenshot94.png

I didn't end up taking many pictures, though. Next stop, Duna!
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Sytri » Thu May 16, 2013 8:23 am UTC

Started playing this at the weekend. Finally manged to get a capsule into orbit! It took far too many attempts. I'm at work but my design was three large solid fuel boosters (stage 3) coupled to the large orange liduid fuel with booster (stage 2) and then a smaller LF tank and booster (Stage 1) coupled on top with 6 RCS boosters. 3 front 3 rear. and two winglets at the end of the large LF tank. I can get up fine but turning 90 degrees at 15,000ft is nigh impossible and then establishing an orbit uses most of my smaller fuel tank. Luckily I had just enough mono to de-orbit and land safely. I know it'd be easier to post a pic so you can see, and I will later, but any ideas on where I've gone wrong?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby yurell » Thu May 16, 2013 8:42 am UTC

At that altitude, you only want to turn 30-45 degrees, and finish your gravity turn at about 70km. Beyond that, do you have a screenshot of your ship? It's hard to envision it by just words.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Thu May 16, 2013 9:57 am UTC

My only comment is that it sounds like a huge rocket. If your aim is just to reach orbit, you can get away with something much smaller. Remember, every bit of extra fuel you add is more mass that needs to be lifted, so your total delta-v does not go up very much, and at the cost of worse thrust-to-weight ratio.

And as mentioned, your ascent profile seems a bit dodgy. The way I usually do it is to ascend vertically until I reach 10,000m, then start leaning over to about 45° in the eastwards direction. Then go into map mode and watch my apoapsis as it rises, still slowly turning over, but making sure my time to apoapsis doesn't start falling.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Sytri » Thu May 16, 2013 12:02 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:My only comment is that it sounds like a huge rocket. If your aim is just to reach orbit, you can get away with something much smaller. Remember, every bit of extra fuel you add is more mass that needs to be lifted, so your total delta-v does not go up very much, and at the cost of worse thrust-to-weight ratio.

And as mentioned, your ascent profile seems a bit dodgy. The way I usually do it is to ascend vertically until I reach 10,000m, then start leaning over to about 45° in the eastwards direction. Then go into map mode and watch my apoapsis as it rises, still slowly turning over, but making sure my time to apoapsis doesn't start falling.


It is a huge rocket, the smaller ones I made used to make it out of the atmosphere but have no fuel left to turn. I think that my problem may be that I'm not turning at the right points. The key bindings seem to be either on or off, there's no room for slight changes or am I missing a modifier button? I've watched a few of the youtube vids of people reaching orbit and they seem to be able to effortlessly turn to 45° then hold it in place with the SAS. when I try to turn, it moves far too quickly and after engaging the SAS it wobbles till it becomes steady.

I would look all this up on the website but it's blocked at work.
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