Kerbal Space Program

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Yakk » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:06 pm UTC

Did I post this thread yet?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/sho ... -shortcuts

Flight:
    Double Tap Brake : Parking Brake
    Alt+Time warp Keys : Force "Physics" warp
    Alt+L : Toggle Staging Lock (Disable spacebar / Stage key)
    Alt+Pitch/Yaw/Roll : Trim (Move the "zero position")
    Alt+X : Reset Trim
    F: Hold to temporarily invert S.A.S. Module and S.A.S functions in other parts
    Caps Lock Toggle between instant or precision control mode ???
    X Stop all engines (hidden 0.12 function)
    1, 2, 3... Toggle Custom Action Group 1, 2, 3...
    Alt + Right Click Fuel transfer (should click on both fuel tanks) (does this work in flight?)

RCS:
    H RCS Thruster forward 0.11.0 D
    N RCS Thruster rearward 0.11.0 D
    I RCS Thruster translate down 0.11.0 D
    J RCS Thruster translate left 0.11.0 D
    K RCS Thruster translate up 0.11.0 D
    L RCS Thruster translate right 0.11.0 D

EVA:
    Hold Shift (or presumably, the key you bind running to) while letting go of a ladder to jump backward instead.
Building:
    WASDQE : Rotate part. Usually in the wrong direction or along the wrong axis. Think of shaving in a mirror or a USB port
    Shift+WASDQE : Fine rotation (5° increments)
    Space : Reset rotation
    Shift+Click on any part of the ship : Select the whole ship (Like if you clicked on the pod)
    Alt+Click on a part: Clone Sub-tree (clone a part and all it's "children")
    Ctrl+Click on a part : Navigate to that part in the parts list
    X : Cycle through symmetry modes
    C : Toggle Snap to Angles
    Ctrl+Z : Undo
    Ctrl+Y : Redo

Debug:
    Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D : Toggle Debug "Cheats" Window
    Alt+F2 : Toggle Debug Console Window

System:
    Ctrl+F10 Load saved game state dialogue box (hidden feature, looks in /KSP/saves/scenarios/)
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:23 pm UTC

laythe swim.png


Bill Kerman goes for a swim on Laythe. I wanted to pick a spot on land, but my highly inclined orbit did not lend itself to such things. A splashdown will have to do. I hope there aren't any monsters swimming around down there.

Edit: another pic after some time acceleration with Vall and Tylo in the background just to prove it really is Laythe and not Kerbin.

laythe swim 2.png
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:27 pm UTC

So came back to the game yesterday (I hadn't played since 0.15). I just achieved my first docking in orbit around Kerbin. The maneuver node thing makes everything so much easier. I can't imagine doing this kind of stuff in the "nav-ball only" days.

Also, SlyReaper are you a wizard?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:37 pm UTC

No, just a mathematician. As far as this game goes, that might as well be the same thing.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby wam » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:23 pm UTC

Just got this yesterday, does anyone have any tips for structural reinforments?

Can you program transition burns or does it all have to be done manually?

Am having issues with the top stage wobbling/breaking when I try and expand it?

Also this game does take a lot of maths and I did quite a lot of this in my degree!!
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby d0nk3y_k0n9 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:30 pm UTC

wam wrote:Just got this yesterday, does anyone have any tips for structural reinforments?


Use MOAR struts.

But seriously, use LOTS and LOTS of struts. Like way more than you think you reasonably should. It should also stop some of the upper-stage wobble issues. Also, struts do automatically break off when you have them across stages, so you don't have to worry about attaching them to decouplers or anything.

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Yakk » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:01 pm UTC

Go into symmetry mode (press X, save a click).

Build a circle of struts, 2-3 per component.

Now, criss-cross between them (if you had a box with a strut on top and bottom and components on the left and right, make it a box with an X through the middle).

If you have radial mounts, also go inside the model and build struts there.

A technique I sort of like is to build 1 radial component off-balance without symmetry on, strut it up, detatch it, activate symmetry, reattach it. Then do inter-radial-component symmetry.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby keozen » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:31 pm UTC

Well, after a long time of Ummm & Errrr I decided to go ahead and buy this. It just looks way to interesting to not.

Does anyone have any good recommendations for good starting points?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Yakk » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:45 pm UTC

Make a rocket that leaves the atmosphere and then lands the kerbals safely.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:56 pm UTC

Getting in to orbit has to be the first step. Make sure you know how (gravity turns, burning with the rotation, ect). Once you can do moderately well, install MechJeb and set the auto-pilot to get your craft to orbit. Watch it and use MechJeb as a guide to teach yourself how to do orbits really well. Don't overlook the information side of MechJeb, it can tell you how much delta v you wasted to drag and gravity so you can speed up or slow your launches. It can also tell you how much delta v you have left in each stage during flight and during construction which is incredibly helpful in planning missions.

After you've mastered orbits watch a vid or two about maneuver nodes. Maneuver nodes are ridiculously useful and allow you to go pretty much anywhere when you get to understand them.

In terms of shipbuilding, look at the Kerbal X. The fuel feeding/tank ejecting system is a very useful thing to understand. I use it on all of my current crop of smallish ships (including the ones designed to go one way to Duna and Eve).
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Yakk » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:32 pm UTC

Naw, orbit is definitely the second step. Getting a ship able to push all the way out of the atmosphere can be hard enough to be "one step"!

1) Get to space.
2) Get to space, have Kerbal pilots live.
3) How high can you go (strait up!) -- ideally with living Kerbals.
4) Reach an orbit (leave atmosphere, turn 90 degrees, burn lots of fuel) (!)
5) Reach orbit, land Kerbals alive.
6) Escape velocity!
7) Escape velocity, return home. (!)
8) Orbit Mun.
9) Orbit Mun, return home. (!)
10) Dock 2 ships in orbit of Kerbal. (!)
11) Dock 2 ships in orbit of Kerbal, fly combined craft to Mun, Orbit mun, return home. (!)
12) Orbit mun, detatch unmanned impactor. Impact mun from orbit. Fly orbiter home.
13) Orbit mun, detatch unmanned lander. Land unmanned lander on mun. Fly orbiter home. (!)
14) Orbit mun, detatch manned lander. Land manned lander on mun. Launch unmanned lander from mun. Dock with orbiter. Fly orbiter home. (!)

How is that for a progression of goals? (!) means "wow, you actually did that?!"
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby keozen » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:52 pm UTC

Well, it would seem my first goal is getting to download the game ok. The store has charged me but not given me access to download as it didn't set my account up properly. So now I wait for an email reply from support. Eh well.

Anyway, yeah I think launch/orbit will be the first logical steps. I had a go at the demo Aaaaaaaaaages ago but I get the impression that the game is quite different now in terms of things having been added in.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby wam » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:56 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:Naw, orbit is definitely the second step. Getting a ship able to push all the way out of the atmosphere can be hard enough to be "one step"!

1) Get to space.
2) Get to space, have Kerbal pilots live.
3) How high can you go (strait up!) -- ideally with living Kerbals.
4) Reach an orbit (leave atmosphere, turn 90 degrees, burn lots of fuel) (!)
5) Reach orbit, land Kerbals alive.
6) Escape velocity!
7) Escape velocity, return home. (!)
8) Orbit Mun.
9) Orbit Mun, return home. (!)
10) Dock 2 ships in orbit of Kerbal. (!)
11) Dock 2 ships in orbit of Kerbal, fly combined craft to Mun, Orbit mun, return home. (!)
12) Orbit mun, detatch unmanned impactor. Impact mun from orbit. Fly orbiter home.
13) Orbit mun, detatch unmanned lander. Land unmanned lander on mun. Fly orbiter home. (!)
14) Orbit mun, detatch manned lander. Land manned lander on mun. Launch unmanned lander from mun. Dock with orbiter. Fly orbiter home. (!)

How is that for a progression of goals? (!) means "wow, you actually did that?!"


1-4 and 6 are what I have managed!
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Yakk » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:58 pm UTC

Now that I think about it....

10a) Launch a ship into orbit with dual docking ports. Detatch in orbit. Dock with the other half. Undock. Land back on Kerbal.
10b) Launch a ship into orbit, and match orbits with another ship. Get close enough to see it in stage view. Land back on Kerbal.
10c) Dock two ships from different launches in orbit (!). Undock, land back on Kerbal.

because docking is hard.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Josephine » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:13 pm UTC

10d) Launch a ship into an elliptical orbit. Launch another ship, dock to the side of the first ship.

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:28 pm UTC

Hard mode: land on Tylo and return to Kerbin. Also Eve.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Josephine » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:33 pm UTC

11) Escape the gravity well of the Sun at over 100 km/s. No glitches.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:37 pm UTC

Solar escape velocity is actually very easy with a gravity assist from Jool. I get escape trajectories all the time when I visit Jool. I don't know about 100km/s though - that seems a somewhat arbitrary target.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Josephine » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:40 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Solar escape velocity is actually very easy with a gravity assist from Jool. I don't know about 100km/s though - that seems a somewhat arbitrary target.

Oh, definitely arbitrary. The idea is just a simulated interstellar mission, really. It should be a lot faster than 100 km/s. But that seems like a good target for a multi-stage probe, requiring orbital construction and probably some ion engines.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:32 pm UTC

It would be an insane undertaking. Ion drives have an isp of 4800s if I recall correctly, which is about 47km/s exhaust velocity. To achieve a delta-v of 100km/s, you need a fuel to structural mass ratio of about 7.4:1. Xenon containers alone are 0.12t full, and 0.5t empty, so it's definitely impossible without staging. Calculating the number of stages needed, I haven't done yet, but it's going to be a very large number. And that's before you factor in the mass of RTGs, the engine, and the probe body itself. You can shave some of that off with gravity assists from Jool, but not a significant amount.

There is of course an easier way. Ctrl-alt-shift-D, select infinite fuel, and use a mainsail all the way.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Jofur » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:47 pm UTC

Why hello there, everyone!

I've meddled around with KSP quite a bit and have had a couple successful orbits. I look at all the astounding achievements you all have had and I do wonder.
Have you done what you have vanilla or with mods like mechJeb?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:52 pm UTC

Vanilla all the way. Not that I think there's anything wrong with using mechjeb, it's just how I personally roll. I have played around with mechjeb on a previous version, and I'd love to see some of those features make it into the game. Stuff like automatically calculating how much delta-v you have, and showing the phase angles of other planets would be super useful. It would cut down on the amount of paper I get through, certainly.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Jofur » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:23 pm UTC

Impressive! Have you ever made a video, just for fun?

I might meddle with mechjeb since I (currently) lack the mathematical skills to work it all out. It's kind of funny how much I've learned so far just with this game.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:29 pm UTC

No videos, just screenshots.

I recently found this site, which helps you calculate the timing for interplanetary transfer burns. It also tells you how much delta-v you need, which is handy. To work out how much delta-v you have, use Tsiolkovski's rocket equation.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:58 pm UTC

Picked this up yesterday...


Well... That was a surprising play-till-3am game session.

I wish there was better tooltips for what stuff does. To the wiki!
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Jofur » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:29 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Picked this up yesterday...


Well... That was a surprising play-till-3am game session.

I wish there was better tooltips for what stuff does. To the wiki!


Yeah... When I figured out what all the tooltips and whatnot represented, the game became much more friendly. I kind of like not having to figure out the DeltaV and directions, but still actually doing them. Working on building my first space station and my first moon landing!
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:42 pm UTC

I like that they did update the demo, so I can see the new toys and such.

Actually, there aren't many new parts from the old demo. But there's a moon and the orbit thingamagiggy works, so... yeah. I need to buy this.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Jofur » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:51 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:I like that they did update the demo, so I can see the new toys and such.

Actually, there aren't many new parts from the old demo. But there's a moon and the orbit thingamagiggy works, so... yeah. I need to buy this.
]

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:27 pm UTC

This may be a stupid question; the game has a bunch of preloaded stuff, like for example, a xenon engine probe. i wanted to muck with this, but started building a surface-orbit rocket under it, and realized I couldn't figure out how put the probe IN anything. It just sort of hangs out on top of the rocket.

I wish there was a docking tutorial.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Josephine » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:30 pm UTC

Yeah, the vanilla game has no fairings. But the drag model doesn't care about the modded ones anyway. Just smack the probe right on top. With some struts.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:35 pm UTC

Fairings will probably be added eventually, with realistic aerodynamics. But for now, just stick that probe on the top of your rocket. It works. You should have seen it pre 0.18. We now have fairings covering engines between staging sections, but that wasn't always there. It looked really dodgy.

And as far as structural integrity goes, you can never have enough struts. Always use more struts. You have a rocket that looks perfectly sound? Sod it, add more struts.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:39 pm UTC

How difficult is docking? And more to the point, what sort of stuff is available for docking? Can I make a LEO station with detatchable fuel tanks for handing off to another rocket?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Jofur » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:50 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:How difficult is docking? And more to the point, what sort of stuff is available for docking? Can I make a LEO station with detatchable fuel tanks for handing off to another rocket?


Docking is quite difficult, but they have a special mode that's made it much easier.
They have special cores and whatnot, but you can essentially stick together anything you can get off the ground.

People make refueling stations and things similar to yours all the time. I haven't figured out how to work out the staging and whatnot of what you build in orbit, but it's doable.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:48 pm UTC

Jofur wrote:Docking is quite difficult, but they have a special mode that's made it much easier.


No! Do not listen to this man. The docking mode makes docking a lot harder because you have to keep toggling back and forth between rotation and translation. The easiest way to dock is to align your target north-south (assuming you're on a nice low-inclination orbit), point the ship you're flying in the opposite direction on the nav-ball (which will be either north or south), and then just line up your target position vector with your north-south point, and your velocity vector on top of that.

You know what? I'll let this guy explain it.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby cemper93 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:51 pm UTC

So I tried to make two objects meet up in orbit. I guess I... succeeded.
Spoiler:
screenshot48.png


Fortunately, no Kerbals were harmed in production of this space photograph. I actually sent them EVA to inspect whatever remained of would-be space station, then landed them safely on Kerbin.


Also, thank you slyreaper for that marvelous Tsiolkosky rocket equation! Having a formula to calculate how much payload you can take to orbit is really much, much easier than going by trial and error. (Though, of course, the latter is the true Kerbal way.)

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:06 am UTC

Bought it. SO MANY PARTS. Already modded it via a simple "Adds more Ion Engines" because I'd like something with more than .5 thrust.

Orbiting - I can do it relatively easily now.

Space Stations - Big heavy things with docking ports are now in orbit.

Docking - There's my next step. And I need to figure out how to get fuel into orbit as well, but I figure that can come after docking practice.

When docking is learned - Mun, landing and leaving OR visiting other planets, doing an orbit and returning home safe.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:41 am UTC

Getting to the Mun is far far easier than docking. Hell, getting to Duna is pretty simple* compared to docking.

*One full FL-T800 fuel tank with nuclear engine in LKO is enough to get a small payload to LDO.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:51 pm UTC

I don't know how you'd get to Duna without docking. I know people have done it, but it's crazy inefficient. And it just... inelegant.

Well I could land on Duna quite easily without needing to dock anything, but getting home afterwards is another story.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:42 pm UTC

I really wish the game had better documentation. I feel I keep making mistakes because I'm not sure what a given part does, or how to use it.

For example, two important lessons learned in a docking attempt;
1 ) RCS thrusters require their own monopropellant fuel source. You cannot merely tack them on a fuel container, and monoprop fuel can be tossed anywhere on the craft.
2 ) That docking cube is pretty nifty. You know what else is pretty nifty that it seems to require? A docking port. Fucking fuck you fuckery fuckwat.
3 ) Ion thrusters appear to thrust backwards? As in, I aim in my forward direction, and thrust, and decelerate. I aim away from my forward direction, and thrust, and accelerate.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:53 pm UTC

Did you mount them backwards? If you mount them in such a way that they're on top of your ship, you need to rotate them. In this image, if active, the thruster would go Up.

I just wish the parts images were animated so you could see how a solar panel will look when unfolded, or a communications array or whatever.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.


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