The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Bacon Workshop

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby mosc » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:55 pm UTC

I love the characters they pulled out to identify the races there, particularly the ones from Morrowind.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Goldstein » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:08 pm UTC

I hope they bring back those Daggerfall moustaches. I'm going to design my Skyrim character around that Breton (?) in the fifth row.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Spambot5546 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:25 pm UTC

I found it more interesting that the Khajiit in Arena and Daggerfall appear to be just people in facepaint with no feline features.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Dason » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:27 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:
Spambot5546 wrote:I found these posted on another forum.
http://i.imgur.com/T83AK.jpg...
More generations in one image! Skyrim, Oblivion AND Morrowind comparisons. Whee!

Let's get all crazy up in this.

I was hoping somebody would do this.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby EmptySet » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:54 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:I found it more interesting that the Khajiit in Arena and Daggerfall appear to be just people in facepaint with no feline features.


This is allegedly because Khajiiti biology is tied to the phases of the moon and the Khajiit seen in Arena are the Ohmes strain, who appears similar to bosmer. They frequently paint or tattoo their face to avoid being mistaken for bosmer, in fact. The ones in Daggerfall are supposed to be Ohmes-Raht (look like humans with cat ears and tail, and maybe slight fur), while those in Morroblivion are Suthay-Raht.

Also, only one type of Khajiit is visible in a given year. All the rest hide with their legendary sneaking skills so as to avoid using too many art assets troll the other races. At the end of the year, each Khajiit is replaced by another Khajiit of a different type, who takes on the former's name and position and acts like nothing has changed. This is a totally plausible explanation and there has been no change in design direction.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:59 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:
Spambot5546 wrote:I found these posted on another forum.
http://i.imgur.com/T83AK.jpg...
More generations in one image! Skyrim, Oblivion AND Morrowind comparisons. Whee!

Let's get all crazy up in this.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby thecommabandit » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:24 pm UTC

I still need to play Morrowind. I installed it a few months ago, started up a character, wandered around town for a while doing the thieving quests for the Khajiit woman, then tried to find mushrooms for some mages. Running/walking was painfully slow and FUCKING CLIFFRACERS RAARGH. I thought it'd take a least a couple of levels before I started running into hard enemies like that but NO. Killer birds as soon as I leave town. I uninstalled it. I fully intend to go back to it... sometime.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:37 pm UTC

Yeah.. Morrowind doesn't fuck around. Yes, certain creatures only appear once you hit a certain level, but get too far from safety or try diving into that dungeon right at the starting town.. you're going to die.

Save early, save often.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Decker » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:38 pm UTC

Fun fact, all the mushrooms for that mage's guild quest can be found in or very near the starting town.

Edit: I know this because the SECOND mages guild quest is usually where I got my...starting funds...for the rest of my game, so it behooved me to have all the mushrooms in my inventory already by the time I hit Balmora.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:29 am UTC

thecommabandit wrote:I still need to play Morrowind. I installed it a few months ago, started up a character, wandered around town for a while doing the thieving quests for the Khajiit woman, then tried to find mushrooms for some mages. Running/walking was painfully slow and FUCKING CLIFFRACERS RAARGH. I thought it'd take a least a couple of levels before I started running into hard enemies like that but NO. Killer birds as soon as I leave town. I uninstalled it. I fully intend to go back to it... sometime.
That's not all. There's a smuggler's cave that some people mention- and in most places that would be a good place to go level. Nope, they'll probably murder you. And there's no autosave before then (since it doesn't autosave on zone transitions, just resting), so you have to restart a whole new character.

Save as soon as you start walking around in Seyda Neen proper.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Enokh » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:03 am UTC

I forgot how much cooler some of the Morrowind races looked. I really liked how the dark and wood elves actually looked different -- especially the dark elves, all angular and such.

and holy CRAP, the Skyrim models look amazing :shock:

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:18 am UTC

thecommabandit wrote:Running/walking was painfully slow
Pick Athletics as a major skill.

Problem solved.

Or you could do what I do, and pick Acro - jumping everywhere is awesome :D
FUCKING CLIFFRACERS RAARGH. I thought it'd take a least a couple of levels before I started running into hard enemies like that but NO. Killer birds as soon as I leave town. I uninstalled it. I fully intend to go back to it... sometime.

They're not that bad. Just go with a long blade + heavy armour warrior for your first try at the game.

TL;DR: Morrowind isn't hard, it's just hard to get into.

And for anyone who doesn't like Oblivion, it's probably because you haven't tried conjuration mage yet.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby AngrySquirrel » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:31 am UTC

I remember playing Daggerfall and drawing my own maps cause the maps in the game were so confusing. Still love Daggerfall though, but damn it made me paranoid when at some point I started getting attacked by vampires no matter where I tried to sleep.

I want more dungeons that makes me feel like I've achieved something grand when I finish them, but that I don't actually HAVE to go through unless I want to.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:20 pm UTC

AngrySquirrel wrote:I remember playing Daggerfall and drawing my own maps cause the maps in the game were so confusing. Still love Daggerfall though, but damn it made me paranoid when at some point I started getting attacked by vampires no matter where I tried to sleep.

I want more dungeons that makes me feel like I've achieved something grand when I finish them, but that I don't actually HAVE to go through unless I want to.

I like Daggerfall, but after three seperate files cut short by horrific, gamebreaking bugs, I've decided to wait for XL :P
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Spambot5546 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:47 pm UTC

AngrySquirrel wrote:I want more dungeons that makes me feel like I've achieved something grand when I finish them, but that I don't actually HAVE to go through unless I want to.


Try the Nehrim mod for Oblivion. Most of the optional dungeons in that have bosses who wear a good set of magic items. Makes for a good challenge and a hefty payout.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:18 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:
thecommabandit wrote:Running/walking was painfully slow
Pick Athletics as a major skill.

Problem solved.
Also, you're level 4 when you hit Balmora. Which may be a problem as while Morrowind doesn't level like Oblivion, there is a certain amount of it - like Scamps being in Daedric ruins at low level, but higher level Atronarchs and Daedric creatures at higher level, so if your fighting skills aren't up to par......

What I'm saying is, if you put Athletics and/or Acrobatics as Major skills, you run the very-real risk of creating a situation where you cannot progress because you cannot kill anything, as your level is simply too damn high.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:47 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:What I'm saying is, if you put Athletics and/or Acrobatics as Major skills, you run the very-real risk of creating a situation where you cannot progress because you cannot kill anything, as your level is simply too damn high.


Level illusion and conjuration.

Combat stops being a problem, at all.

edit: there's also the 3s weakness to magic, 1s drain 100 health, 1s soul trap route, if you are feeling extra cheesy.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby mosc » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:08 pm UTC

As much as I adore Morrowind, you have to deal with some rather odd choices for first quests (mushroom hunting for example). Also, it takes some understanding of loot, merchants, and bartering to really start accumulating money. Another thing I always run into when explaining Morrowind to people is getting over their natural aversion to trainers. You want to be Mr. Badass with your level 32 short blade technique it ain't going to happen unless you want to go swing at fish for the next 20 hours.

They should have set up Seyda Neen as more of a leveling land too. Some place you could do more mundane tasks to power up before venturing too far. Also, that smuggler's cave should have been a cake walk filled with riches. Perhaps some handholding to push people towards utilizing trainers would have been nice as well. The "blades trainers" in balmora work great, but I don't think most players used them as intended.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:01 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
SirBryghtside wrote:
thecommabandit wrote:Running/walking was painfully slow
Pick Athletics as a major skill.

Problem solved.
Also, you're level 4 when you hit Balmora. Which may be a problem as while Morrowind doesn't level like Oblivion, there is a certain amount of it - like Scamps being in Daedric ruins at low level, but higher level Atronarchs and Daedric creatures at higher level, so if your fighting skills aren't up to par......

What I'm saying is, if you put Athletics and/or Acrobatics as Major skills, you run the very-real risk of creating a situation where you cannot progress because you cannot kill anything, as your level is simply too damn high.

If you're a fighter class, though, that's pretty necessary. You're going to have about 2 main skills - one for armour, one for weapon, and maybe something like block?

Adding these skills is a great way of character building - especially in the case of Acrobatics, which is confusingly governed by strength. Tried and tested method (by me).
mosc wrote:As much as I adore Morrowind, you have to deal with some rather odd choices for first quests (mushroom hunting for example). Also, it takes some understanding of loot, merchants, and bartering to really start accumulating money. Another thing I always run into when explaining Morrowind to people is getting over their natural aversion to trainers. You want to be Mr. Badass with your level 32 short blade technique it ain't going to happen unless you want to go swing at fish for the next 20 hours.

They should have set up Seyda Neen as more of a leveling land too. Some place you could do more mundane tasks to power up before venturing too far. Also, that smuggler's cave should have been a cake walk filled with riches. Perhaps some handholding to push people towards utilizing trainers would have been nice as well. The "blades trainers" in balmora work great, but I don't think most players used them as intended.

Eh, the main thing I like about TES games is lack of grind, you just get straight into the interesting bits. And while some of you might say that you have to grind to do well, in all my characters on all four games, I've never had to grind once - and I always kill Gaenor easily.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:15 pm UTC

Morrowind did not hold your hand, and stuck with the tradition from Arena and Daggerfall, which was "Explore.. go on, explore. Just be prepared to run like hell."

But yeah, your first quest is to go talk to the guy in Balmora. It's not "Go talk to the guy in Balmora but feel free to dick around on your way there"
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:18 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:TL;DR: Morrowind isn't hard, it's just hard to get into.
It's really not fair to say "the game is easy if you play it correctly!"

mosc wrote:Another thing I always run into when explaining Morrowind to people is getting over their natural aversion to trainers.
Oh yeah. I was always willing to use trainers, but I had a friend or two who thought that was cheating- which I just could not understand (and getting the right stat points when you level without training skills you don't care about is pretty tough).
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Xeio » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:42 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure Morrowind would have been much less aggravating if it hadn't been "your goal is a bit southwest of X", where your goal is either several hundred miles southwest of X, actually northeast of X, or X is just some mysterious location which isn't further clarified (Good luck, as they say).

Of course, then they added a giant arrow on the compass for oblivion which couldn't be turned off. Yea... thanks... that's what I wanted...

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Magnanimous » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:54 pm UTC

I really hope they go back to the Morrowind-style exploration in Skyrim... Oblivion kind of ruined it with already-detailed maps and fast travel. Not to mention the dungeons.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:56 am UTC

Xeio wrote:I'm pretty sure Morrowind would have been much less aggravating if it hadn't been "your goal is a bit southwest of X", where your goal is either several hundred miles southwest of X, actually northeast of X, or X is just some mysterious location which isn't further clarified (Good luck, as they say).
I seem to remember the directions being wrong at most once. There were a number of times, though, where finding the place was quite the challenge. (It took me a long time to find the Cavern of the Incarnate, for example.)

It is almost certain that they're going with the compass for Skyrim. Morrowind-style exploration might be nice but will be unlikely. (How do you balance a game that depends so much on player knowledge?)
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby CombustibleLemons » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:57 am UTC

Can i get the pre order map if i preorder from steam?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Goldstein » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:23 am UTC

Yeah, "cross the bridge, carry on until you pass a rock, turn left and then the place you want is on your right" turned out to be a 20-minute wade through Cliff Racers, constantly wondering if I'd walked past this entrance I was after. It was great though. With the compass system, I tend not to even know what it is I'm seeking. I'm just following the arrow.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:53 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:It's really not fair to say "the game is easy if you play it correctly!"

I think of it like an awkward control system. Once you work out how to do it, the actual game content isn't that hard. You just have to know a couple of things when you start.
Xeio wrote:I'm pretty sure Morrowind would have been much less aggravating if it hadn't been "your goal is a bit southwest of X", where your goal is either several hundred miles southwest of X, actually northeast of X, or X is just some mysterious location which isn't further clarified (Good luck, as they say).

Of course, then they added a giant arrow on the compass for oblivion which couldn't be turned off. Yea... thanks... that's what I wanted...

I actually turned the compass off by picking a different quest in Oblivion - still gave the wrong direction in the journal :P
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Xeio » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:57 am UTC

Amishdemon wrote:Can i get the pre order map if i preorder from steam?
Only for physical copies that I'm aware of.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Adam H » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:51 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:I'm pretty sure Morrowind would have been much less aggravating if it hadn't been "your goal is a bit southwest of X", where your goal is either several hundred miles southwest of X, actually northeast of X, or X is just some mysterious location which isn't further clarified (Good luck, as they say).

Of course, then they added a giant arrow on the compass for oblivion which couldn't be turned off. Yea... thanks... that's what I wanted...

I think the ideal guiding system would be like they tried to do in oblivion, but less obvious/dumbed-down. Only have the giant arrow for places that the player marks on the map, I liked that feature a lot. I HATED the giant arrow in dungeon quests. Your quest is to find some hidden artifact, so your compass tells you exactly which drawer to look in... that makes a lot of sense.

I liked the idea of NPC's marking up your map for you, but when someone marks on your map, it shouldn't tell you where the doorway is down to the inch. Instead of an arrow, it should be more of a region (like the hot/cold game). The NPC's should have differing knowledge of where things are, and sometimes they can be a little off, and sometimes they can just give you a rough idea of where to go. If you can find the most badass explorer in skyrim, he should be able to tell you where most anything is with pretty good precision.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby mosc » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:31 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:
Xeio wrote:I'm pretty sure Morrowind would have been much less aggravating if it hadn't been "your goal is a bit southwest of X", where your goal is either several hundred miles southwest of X, actually northeast of X, or X is just some mysterious location which isn't further clarified (Good luck, as they say).

Of course, then they added a giant arrow on the compass for oblivion which couldn't be turned off. Yea... thanks... that's what I wanted...

I actually turned the compass off by picking a different quest in Oblivion - still gave the wrong direction in the journal :P

This is very true. Compass directions mean you don't look around as you go through the world and that really hurts the game and the playstyle they're going after. At the same time, the directions in morrowind don't account for distances. They're generally accurate in terms of directions but with no distances, things get confusing fast. This is a central element though that I wish they would focus on addressing rather than giving us 20% better texture maps or whatnot. I want directions that make sense but I want to have to look at the world rather than a compass arrow to find things. Finding your way shouldn't be hard but it also shouldn't be like turning off your brain and holding down the forward arrow occasionally glancing at the screen to make sure you didn't get stuck on a rock.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby IcedT » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:38 pm UTC

Well, regarding Morrowind, there's a really good Google Maps-style chart of the whole place that I refer to whenever I get too lost. It really gives you a sense of the size of the place and the huge amount of content in it too, so using it doesn't take a lot away from it for me.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:39 am UTC

News

I'm not sure about them. Some of them look a bit weird, but for now I'm just going to wait till I see them animated.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby thecommabandit » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:09 am UTC

I'm really happy about the orcs. They managed to make them look savage and harsh without making them look stupid or ugly as fuck like in Oblivion. One of those female presets actually looks pretty in a stereotypical tribal savage sort of way.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby eSOANEM » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:47 am UTC

Likewise (with the orcs), they're much more obviously meric than they were in oblivion and they're also a step away from your standard WoW style green gorilla orc.

Overall, I'm very pleased with these and really like the new argonians, they don't look as goofy as they did in oblivion.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby mosc » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:07 pm UTC

IcedT wrote:Well, regarding Morrowind, there's a really good Google Maps-style chart of the whole place that I refer to whenever I get too lost. It really gives you a sense of the size of the place and the huge amount of content in it too, so using it doesn't take a lot away from it for me.

I think that was the intent. They released the game with a very detailed map and expected players to rely on it. It was also a somewhat intentional anti-piracy measure. The map was a highly policed image on the internet.

A map is a good idea. They should give you an ingame map and have people draw locations and paths on it. You could reference the map to find your way but wouldn't be able to just ignore the scenery.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:28 pm UTC

One of the things I found pretty interesting about that article was that I could instantly tell that they were female Khajiit from their faces.

However you look at it, that's impressive.

Also gay marriage as been confirmed for Skyrim. I'm staying off most of the info, never go onto the Beth forums anymore (mostly because of incredibly hostile community), but I get bits every so often. Planning on going to Eurogamer Expo with a couple of friends, but I'm not sure how much of the game I'll get to see (it's 18+ restricted, I'm 16).
Spambot5546 wrote:Well...who used it? I'd sleep next to Felicia Day's used bacon.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby EmptySet » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:47 am UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:One of the things I found pretty interesting about that article was that I could instantly tell that they were female Khajiit from their faces.

However you look at it, that's impressive.


I don't think so. I could tell the difference between male and female Khajiit from faces in Oblivion. I also don't think it's terribly difficult to make male and female catpeople easily differentiated by facial features, especially given that cat faces are unusually similar to human faces to begin with. The moustaches on the male Khajiit are pretty cool, though.

thecommabandit wrote:I'm really happy about the orcs. They managed to make them look savage and harsh without making them look stupid or ugly as fuck like in Oblivion. One of those female presets actually looks pretty in a stereotypical tribal savage sort of way.


Yeah, the orcs are good.

Some of the other races look a bit wonky to me. There seem to be a lot of really tall and/or pointy chins. However, I do find it amusing that they've given the Dunmer a huge bony brow which makes it look like they're permanently frowning, just in case their position as the grumpiest of races was in doubt.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:34 pm UTC

Good hands-on article.

Confirms Vamps, pushing zombies off cliffs, better loot and a ton of other stuff.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby MisterCheif » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:45 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:Good hands-on article.

Confirms Vamps, pushing zombies off cliffs, better loot and a ton of other stuff.


I really, reeaaallllllllly, need to get around to preordering this. Also, those argonians = amazing! I still think I'll have to stick to a cliched Nord for my first character. But my second? Argonian all the way.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Decker » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:54 pm UTC

Argonian racial bonuses have always been disappointing, unfortunately. Besides the water breathing thing, that is.
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