Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

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Thesh
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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby Thesh » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:22 pm UTC

So I was being attacked by some Legionaries Assassins and I went into VATS to try and get in a few headshots. I had a clear line of sight, but in VATS mode my character ran behind Boone, and then fired towards the enemy, which meant that every round landed directly in the back of Boone's skull. I have never seen my character run in VATS before.

This confirms my prior experience that 90% of the time VATS does not help, even with the poor aiming that comes with console controls.
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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby Adam H » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:38 pm UTC

Generally I can snipe a lot better out of VATS not in VATS mode (could I have picked a less clear wording??), but VATS really helps with closer range panicky situations.

But not too close though, or you'll miss by shooting through your target even though you're supposed to have a 95% chance to hit. And make sure there isn't a wall anywhere near you, or it will throw itself in front of your bullets. Also, I can't stand that stupid delay after you kill something and VATS ends. It feels like it takes forever to get out of it sometimes.
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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby Yakk » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:55 pm UTC

VATS is awesome for medium-ranged killing. And if you pick up reaper, you can chain one VATS-to-second-VATS pretty nastily. Unless things are perfectly safe, I avoid shooting too many times in a row in VATS on the same target (because there could be something I don't see between us), at least without a test fire first.
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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:07 pm UTC

There's a part in the Long Road DLC where you're going down an elevator and being attacked from all sides, which I definitely couldn't have survived without using VATS to turn and shoot the ones behind me that I wouldn't have noticed otherwise. (This was definitely one of those short-range panicky situations.)
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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:09 pm UTC

Yeah, I noticed that about NV VATS. In Fallout 3 VATS was the way I primarily fought anything, so much that I got the Grim Reaper's Sprint or whatever it was that restored VATS action points when you killed something in VATS, so I'd literally just pop in and out of VATS and kill everything before most anything had time to react.

New Vegas... I really only found myself using VATS when I was surprised or when the combat was an encounter of 10 feet or less. The rest of the time I did the aiming myself.
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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby Kulantan » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:55 pm UTC

On the machine that I played NV most, I had a 20% chance of crashing if I used VATS. Sniper or melee characters were pretty much all I played. VATS was only used for two things, shots that had to hit or else I'd die (deathclaw, mother and alpha) and when particular body parts had to be taken out for whatever reason. Even then I only used it with steady.
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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby OklahomaJoe » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:00 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:There's a part in the Long Road DLC where you're going down an elevator and being attacked from all sides, which I definitely couldn't have survived without using VATS to turn and shoot the ones behind me that I wouldn't have noticed otherwise. (This was definitely one of those short-range panicky situations.)


I'm trying to think of where this is... I never encountered a major problem with the Long Road, even the final fight at the end.

At any rate, I always liked DK_BulletTime for getting rid of excess AP. The mods I used mostly turned FNV into a proper shooter, so I never really had much need for VATS, but having bullet time was damned useful. I typically configured it to have the same effects (and about the same duration) as the Turbo chem; you'd only get a couple of seconds of time on a full AP bar, but typically a couple seconds would be all you'd need.

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby Thesh » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:19 am UTC

I primarily used VATS in Fallout 3 to get a quick shot off with the dart gun while battling Deathclaws. This game doesn't appear to have an anti-Deathclaw device, and they also seem to be much much harder to kill... and in greater numbers.
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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby SecondTalon » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:05 pm UTC

Lonesome Road DLC. Gives you a weapon that makes the dartgun look useless.
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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby Thesh » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:13 pm UTC

Well, I've got the Anti-Materiel rifle now, so I don't really need it anymore. I picked it up immediately after clearing the quarry and killing the Deathclaw Mother and Alpha Male.

I also realized I needed AP ammo in my hunting rifle after reading the stats on the Deathclaw and the learning about the new "Damage Threshold" stat.
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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby OklahomaJoe » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:32 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:Well, I've got the Anti-Materiel rifle now, so I don't really need it anymore. I picked it up immediately after clearing the quarry and killing the Deathclaw Mother and Alpha Male.

I also realized I needed AP ammo in my hunting rifle after reading the stats on the Deathclaw and the learning about the new "Damage Threshold" stat.


The new old DT stat, you mean ;)

FO3 removed it, but DT has been in Fallout since the original. Armors also had different DTs and/or DRs against different damage types (laser, fire, plasma, etc), so one suit of armor might not always be a complete upgrade over another kind. I kind of miss that sort of detail work, the newer Fallout games are much too simplified.

I think 25% of damage goes through DT in vanilla FNV; that is, even if you hit them for 15 and they have 25 DT (which means you should do 0 damage), you'll still do about 4 damage anyway. AP rounds are good against enemies with a lot of DT, but remember that they do considerably less damage than regular rounds (usually 75% of normal damage.)

You should make sure to get the Hand-Loader perk if you're using Guns, and get a good Assault Carbine; the 5mm ammo type is horribly overpowered in vanilla FNV, since 5mm already comes with -DT, and the JSP hand-load special type is even better: -10 DT and 130% of normal damage. Your gun will degrade faster, but with Jury Rigging, fixing it will not be an issue. Or just take it to a person that can repair it; the economy in vanilla FNV is ridiculous, and it's easy to get more caps than you could possibly ever spend.

You'll probably still need dedicated AP rounds for bigger game, like Deathclaws, but you're probably best off with the Anti-Materiel Rifle for them, anyway. Keep in mind that FNV isn't like FO3; you aren't going to find Deathclaws just randomly wandering around once you hit level 30. You only find Deathclaws in a couple of specific places; the same goes for any other kind of wildlife, including radscorpions, ants, etc. FNV isn't "Oblivion with plasma rifles" like FO3 was.

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby Koa » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:58 pm UTC

I finished my playthrough of an explosives+melee character recently, where my main focus was explosives and melee to help with the suicidal nature of close range demolitions. In the early game it seemed very strong due to a silly drop-mines-while-running-away tactic. Everything died to it as long as I had enough mines and room to run. Dynamite and grenades were also pretty effective. But before I had even made it to the vegas area I was starting to feel the falloff of the usefulness of explosives.

I upgraded to a grenade launcher and missile launcher and they were both very underwhelming, not to mention unwieldy. High splash damage to break your limbs and kill friendlies, rare and heavy ammunition, low ammo capacity and slow reload, poor accuracy... even the damage wasn't that great. I had to abandon it to save myself some pain.

I had picked up a flamer thinking it was a explosive weapon as perhaps a solution to the problem, but of course it's an energy weapon. So I completely changed my focus into energy weapons and used the flamer for a while. A more conventional skill yet still the uncommon choice. I would still use explosives when I could, but it couldn't be my main armament until later on, I figured.

After trying out every energy gun I managed to find, the only one that stuck was the tri-beam laser rifle. The only minor problem was with how quickly it degraded (especially with overcharge ammo), but it was otherwise the best gun in my arsenal and it lasted me most of the game. Then I found the gauss rifle. I thought it would be a decent medium/long range weapon to compliment the close/medium range tri-beam, but the gauss rifle kills everything. I couldn't justify the weight of carrying the tri-beam anymore, especially since they both use MFC ammo.

Going into the late game I went back into explosives and tried out the grenade machinegun, red glare, fat man, but they all pale in comparison to the gauss rifle to the point where I felt like explosives were just a novelty. Why shoot 4 semi-accurate rockets when one accurate blast from the gauss rifle does just as well? Even when there's three enemies grouped together, most of the time I'd rather shoot 3 gauss rifle blasts than the 7 or so rockets. The only time I felt explosives were actually useful was when I was clearing out the quarry and dead wind cavern with the fat man, despite maxing out the skill and having all of the relevant perks.

So, what you can take from that is that the game's weapons are very poorly balanced. Guns are slightly balanced around the different ammo types. Energy guns only have MFC as a useful ammo type and there's hardly a trade-off for the few different MFC weapons. Explosives are a very mixed bag but they don't do anywhere close to the damage that they should.

Also, fuck the plethora of instances where they take all your weapons and reset your hotkeys. I couldn't be bothered to enter the casinos because of that.

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby OklahomaJoe » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:50 am UTC

EVE spruces up energy weapons and makes them a bit more interesting, but I agree that pretty much every skill but Guns feels kind of anemic. Supposedly Guns using so many different types of ammo is the drawback or balancing factor for the skill, but considering you can easily break down any ammo and use those components to build any other kind of ammo... it's not really much of a drawback, really.

Explosives has never really been designed to be a "core" weapon skill, more of a supporting skill, along the lines of Sneak, Lockpick, Science, etc; several mods add "explosive entry" to the game, allowing you to use explosives to blast open doors and boxes (with a chance of destroying the contents of said box being an optional choice), which expands the skill somewhat. Flamers and their like have never really been practical in Fallout; they're too heavy and too limited in use to justify all the space and weight it takes to drag one around. The same mostly applies to Missile Launchers and any of the nicer, bigger Explosives-based weapons - the situations in which they're the best choice are just so few in number that it's better to not bother with them at all.

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Re: Fallout: New Vegas : It's Anti-Materiel. Not Material.

Postby Thesh » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:43 am UTC

So I called a NCR Ranger for support when I was attacked by Legionaries Assassin's. By the time they arrived, they were dead (half of them by Veronica, because she hits them, then there is a big bang with sparks and smoke and then death), and, after deciding the ranger was useless, I dismissed them via my radio. A little later I headed to McCarran, and talked to a Ranger standing out front. Now they won't stop following me, and the radio doesn't give an option to dismiss them. I keep going where I think they will end up getting killed, but it doesn't seem to happen. Oh well, guess I just got to keep on trying.
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