... the Kingdom Hearts thread

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Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:43 pm UTC

CreemyNougat wrote:FFI is one of the greatest FF's ever.


Not one of, the only one. Granted, I'm not counting the Tactics line as the same thing as the standard line.

But..yeah, Kingdom Hearts was worth the $50 or so I spent on it, but I don't really want to play II...especially after mc chris's rant... not that I care about Resident Evil.
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Postby Phenriz » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:48 pm UTC

hahah the rant was good, but i still liked KH2.

SPOILERISH wrote:probably because sephiroth is more of a badass, and he has his wing in KH2, oh don't forget Auron.
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Postby Princess Marzipan » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:54 pm UTC

Marshie the Marshmallow is making a new FF Thread.

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Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:56 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
CreemyNougat wrote:FFI is one of the greatest FF's ever.


Not one of, the only one. Granted, I'm not counting the Tactics line as the same thing as the standard line.

But..yeah, Kingdom Hearts was worth the $50 or so I spent on it, but I don't really want to play II...especially after mc chris's rant... not that I care about Resident Evil.


Heh, he exaggerates a bit. II is not as good as I in terms of story, but the gameplay is def. improved. At least rent it, eh? The Drive Forms alone are just amazing.

And the gummi ship. God, I could spend hours playing that in II.
'Gehȳrst þū, sǣlida, hwæt þis folc segeð?
hī willað ēow tō gafole gāras syllan,
ǣttrynne ord and ealde swurd,
þā heregeatu þe ēow æt hilde ne dēah.

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Postby Phenriz » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:57 pm UTC

Yeah the drive forms were very cool, and added alot to the battle system, i loved the way it changed battle tactics based on each form plus, the colors were sweet.
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Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:02 pm UTC

My only issue is that it was all too easy. Angry as I am at Square pulling the "LOLZ. SPECIUL EDISHUN" shit, I want Final Mix + to come to the states, becuase that looks like it's actualy, y'know, a challenge. And if it isn't one can always equip the 0 EXP ability you get from the beginning so that you stay level 1 the whole game.
'Gehȳrst þū, sǣlida, hwæt þis folc segeð?
hī willað ēow tō gafole gāras syllan,
ǣttrynne ord and ealde swurd,
þā heregeatu þe ēow æt hilde ne dēah.

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Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:32 pm UTC

Nyarlathotep wrote:Heh, he exaggerates a bit. II is not as good as I in terms of story, but the gameplay is def. improved. At least rent it, eh? The Drive Forms alone are just amazing.


Well, I play Square games for the actual game, not the story. I find them to be horrendous storytellers.. unbelievable character interaction, plot elements that are either telegraphed in long before they happen, or so completely out of nowhere to break belief. So, I played their "This is how we do a more action-oriented RPG" game. I don't really want to play it again, because it means I'd have to deal with their story again.

Which, coincidentally, is why I don't care for anime.
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Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:54 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:Heh, he exaggerates a bit. II is not as good as I in terms of story, but the gameplay is def. improved. At least rent it, eh? The Drive Forms alone are just amazing.


Well, I play Square games for the actual game, not the story. I find them to be horrendous storytellers.. unbelievable character interaction, plot elements that are either telegraphed in long before they happen, or so completely out of nowhere to break belief. So, I played their "This is how we do a more action-oriented RPG" game. I don't really want to play it again, because it means I'd have to deal with their story again.

Which, coincidentally, is why I don't care for anime.


II lets you skip the cutscenes. <3 Thus, if you wanted, you could skip 100% of the cutscenes, miss nothing of importance, and still play the game just fine.
'Gehȳrst þū, sǣlida, hwæt þis folc segeð?
hī willað ēow tō gafole gāras syllan,
ǣttrynne ord and ealde swurd,
þā heregeatu þe ēow æt hilde ne dēah.

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Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:59 pm UTC

Is it an absolute skip (As in "Hit start to skip this nonsense") or a "Hit X a lot to jump to the end of the text block and continue on to what the next person's saying" in the non-cutscene interaction bits*?

*cutscene being where the screen plays out a pre-rendered thing, non-interaction bit being something that uses the game engine itself to supply the action.
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Postby Nyarlathotep » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:07 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Is it an absolute skip (As in "Hit start to skip this nonsense") or a "Hit X a lot to jump to the end of the text block and continue on to what the next person's saying" in the non-cutscene interaction bits*?

*cutscene being where the screen plays out a pre-rendered thing, non-interaction bit being something that uses the game engine itself to supply the action.


An absolute skip of both cutscenes and non-cutscene interaction bits. I wanted that in the first game -so- badly x_______X;
'Gehȳrst þū, sǣlida, hwæt þis folc segeð?
hī willað ēow tō gafole gāras syllan,
ǣttrynne ord and ealde swurd,
þā heregeatu þe ēow æt hilde ne dēah.

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Postby shadebug » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:45 am UTC

Oh, dear God. The enemies I kept dying on, like the riku/ansem battle, holy crap. It wasn't the battle that scared me, it was having to get through the damn cutscene, I'd just go read a book until I heard the cheerleader shout Sora
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Postby Nyarlathotep » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:07 pm UTC

shadebug wrote:Oh, dear God. The enemies I kept dying on, like the riku/ansem battle, holy crap. It wasn't the battle that scared me, it was having to get through the damn cutscene, I'd just go read a book until I heard the cheerleader shout Sora


!! YES.

Kairi = Cheerleader.

Sora! SAVE THE CHEERLEADER, SAVE THE WORLD!!!1!!111

(Sylar would totally win in a fight against Sora. Hell, he could probably take down Organization XIII, and that says quite a lot, given how freakishly powerful their data-replicas are and that those are supposed to be indicative of their -true- power levels)

... ahem.

Anyway, yes. That... ghaaa. I have that cutscene practically memorized from the number of times that I had to watch it on my first playthrough.
... now I can own that battle on the first try 'cause I know that sucker's attack patterns ._______.;
'Gehȳrst þū, sǣlida, hwæt þis folc segeð?
hī willað ēow tō gafole gāras syllan,
ǣttrynne ord and ealde swurd,
þā heregeatu þe ēow æt hilde ne dēah.

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Postby Narsil » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:25 pm UTC

Nyarlathotep wrote:My only issue is that it was all too easy. Angry as I am at Square pulling the "LOLZ. SPECIUL EDISHUN" shit, I want Final Mix + to come to the states, becuase that looks like it's actualy, y'know, a challenge. And if it isn't one can always equip the 0 EXP ability you get from the beginning so that you stay level 1 the whole game.
What?
Seriously, what?
Why would you do that to yourself?
Get help.
Spoiler:
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Oh... that.

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Postby Eleven » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:05 pm UTC

Narsil wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:My only issue is that it was all too easy. Angry as I am at Square pulling the "LOLZ. SPECIUL EDISHUN" shit, I want Final Mix + to come to the states, becuase that looks like it's actualy, y'know, a challenge. And if it isn't one can always equip the 0 EXP ability you get from the beginning so that you stay level 1 the whole game.
What?
Seriously, what?
Why would you do that to yourself?
Get help.

Yeah, at that point maybe you should play another game. :shock:

I was excited about Final Mix + at first, but then I realized I didn't want to play this game a third time for some extra scenes and a little extra difficulty. The action is nice, but the story, especially when compared to the first game, is unnecessarily... well, emo. There, I said it. KINGDOM HEARTS II IS EMO.

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Postby Vandole » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:14 am UTC

Wow, the Ansem-Riku battle? You lost that?

I think this might be my compulsive min-maxing speaking, but seriously? KHI was not hard. The only bosses I ever died on were the extra ones - Kurt Zisa, Sephiroth, that freaking clocktower guy, and I think the Ice Titan on my first try. (Of course if you were trying to make it a challenge for yourself it's understandable)

KHII was also not hard. I died only on Sephiroth and the water guitar guy (stupid timed segments)

A rant, apparently directed at Squeenix:
One thing I really, really want in KHIII: Give Sephiroth a rest, people. Let us fight one of the other final fantasy villains. Kefka, Ex-Death, Kuja (Yes I realize he's not the last boss), Ultimecia, Sin, Chaos, Lavos, Magus, etc. You have plenty of ultimate villains or even just rivals to draw from, why even do Sephiroth twice? I'd also note that I'd like to see people who aren't from FFVII, VIII and X a lot more. KHII had Setzer and Vivi. I'd like to see people like Crono, Hawk, Bartz, Cecil and Ramza in there (Or their supporting cast). Also, start including the other Square properties. I don't care about the Enix ones though.
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Postby Belial » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:26 am UTC

Magus


If Magus or Lynx were in these games, I might actually have to start playing them.
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They/them

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Postby Nyarlathotep » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:26 am UTC

Must say, I'd love to see Locke. I never finished VI, but Locke stuck with me as being pretty cool.
'Gehȳrst þū, sǣlida, hwæt þis folc segeð?
hī willað ēow tō gafole gāras syllan,
ǣttrynne ord and ealde swurd,
þā heregeatu þe ēow æt hilde ne dēah.

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Postby SecondTalon » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:57 am UTC

Nyarlathotep wrote:II lets you skip the cutscenes. <3 Thus, if you wanted, you could skip 100% of the cutscenes, miss nothing of importance, and still play the game just fine.


Since I finally got around to seeing if my question was answered...

One word. Awesomesauce.
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Postby Nyarlathotep » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:12 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:II lets you skip the cutscenes. <3 Thus, if you wanted, you could skip 100% of the cutscenes, miss nothing of importance, and still play the game just fine.


Since I finally got around to seeing if my question was answered...

One word. Awesomesauce.


Yeah, afik you just can't skip the opening and ending sequences.

But that's not so bad. Opening sequence is just a nifty music video anyway, and I'm sure that if you dont' give a damn about the plot you can prolly just turn the system off when you get to the end.
'Gehȳrst þū, sǣlida, hwæt þis folc segeð?
hī willað ēow tō gafole gāras syllan,
ǣttrynne ord and ealde swurd,
þā heregeatu þe ēow æt hilde ne dēah.

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Postby Vaniver » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:16 am UTC

why even do Sephiroth twice?
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Re: Kingdom Hearts

Postby Xanthir » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:02 pm UTC

Just read through this old thread.

I like KH1 quite a bit. It was fun, the magic worked usefully, and the areas were interesting to explore. The actual storyline was rather interesting, and surprisingly dark as well.

KH2... I liked the new forms. Those were awesome, and if they had appeared in KH1, it'd be perfect. I *didn't* like Reaction Commands (too twitchy/overpowered, usually). I *really* didn't like the areas. They were soulless, existing only as a backdrop for your boss battles. There was absolutely zero exploration or interaction. They would have done as well to make the game just cutscenes and battle areas, for all the good an actual world did them. I also second that it turned ridiculously emo.

Plus I have a problem with King Mickey (Undying Overlord Mickey, amirite?), and Minnie horrifies me. She always has. Her eyes aren't placed right, somehow, and it gives me the creeps.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Jebobek » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:43 pm UTC

Reaction commands were fine from the start, where you would use it to get behind the enemy, then it was up to you to take them out. Eventually it turned into a SPAM TRIANGLE fest which made the combat lose its magic. One example is using to kill the huge amount of heartless (Triangle and only triangle), or to kill a group of beserkers by grabbing their blade and destroying everything.

What bothered me is that they took out the platforming element: nothing was "too high" anymore. You could basically go everywhere on the map. I think that killed a bit of the exploration.

What always bothered me was that buffing your friends was not worth it, because in final battles or arena combat they're often gone. If you have to make a decision to buff your friends up than they better be useful at endgame. I'm looking forward to seeing how the third game will be if it ever comes out.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Box Boy » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:20 pm UTC

One thing that always bugged me was this
Spoiler:
"If Roxas was made from Sora's body and mind, how come sora was able to regain a physical form after being turned into a heartless?"
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby mispeled » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:19 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:What bothered me is that they took out the platforming element: nothing was "too high" anymore. You could basically go everywhere on the map. I think that killed a bit of the exploration.


That was why KH1 was better than KH2 - in one you had a reason to return to the worlds to collect the treasure boxes you couldn't reach before you got double-jump and that glide ability. You didn't really have to do that in 2. Also, in 2, the worlds felt much more linear - run down a long hallway to a fight, fight, then more hallway. My favorite part of 1 was Aladdin's area, because you had to get through through the same 2 rooms, back and forth, getting higher and higher.

Has anyone played the GBA game or the PS2 remake of the GBA game? Is anyone interested in the DS game that's coming out soon?

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Internetmeme » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:57 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:One thing that always bugged me was this
Spoiler:
"If Roxas was made from Sora's body and mind, how come sora was able to regain a physical form after being turned into a heartless?"

That's what you call a "plot hole".

So, anyone remember the first boss in the game? That giant white thing that teaches reaction commands?
I never got why I was fighting it, or why I was somewhere called "Twighlight Station" or why someone who is stalking Sora has murals of him and all his friends everywhere on the ground or how the place was made into a bottomless pit.

Also, am I the only one who could never win the "gambling" enemies? I just could not get past that boss, either.

Also:
SecondTalon wrote:Personally, I'm finding artificial limits imposed by games to be annoying. Stuff like bridges not existing/being closed until a certain task is performed (I'm lookin' at YOU, FFI and GTA3/ViceCity/SanAndreas!) or, in the case of Kingdom Hearts - not having them mapped in or whatever the excuse was. I'll let it slide when it's a hidden planet/island/cave in the forest when I could possibly stumble upon it, or it being such a remote thing that a map is necessary... but only for one or two locations, not all of them. Let me go into areas and get seriously spanked.. that's why we have saved games.

Actually, in SanAndreas, you can go to the other islands any time you like. You can swim in this game, too. The thing is, you do get seriously spanked when you get a 6-star wanted rating for crossing it. They lampshaded this by saying the cops wanted you to stay there.
Plot hole: When you're in the country and the cops tell you to not go back to San Andreas, and you do, then why don't I get a 6-star then?
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That's what you call fake difficulty (warning, TvTropes link)
Spoiler:

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Jorpho » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:30 pm UTC

I see 358/2 Days is getting some good reviews. Has anyone here tried it yet?

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Box Boy » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:59 pm UTC

358/2 looks fairly good, I'll post about it when I get a copy.

@Internetmeme: not really, I have a few ideas about it but I just can't seem to find any way for it to have happened in the game without an ass pull.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Internetmeme » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:17 am UTC

Box Boy wrote:358/2 looks fairly good, I'll post about it when I get a copy.

@Internetmeme: not really, I have a few ideas about it but I just can't seem to find any way for it to have happened in the game without an ass pull.


Maybe we'll find out in the third game.

I'm still grumbly about this game not accepting my 64MB card on the PS2.
Spoiler:

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:25 am UTC

I played KHI and loved it, but like others, I found KH2 to be pretty disappointing. The storyline was either similar to KH1 or throwing out continuity for the hell of it. ("Ah, yeah, you didn't really kill who you thought you killed in the last game, it was a different guy pretending to be that guy. It doesn't really matter, in the end, though. Sorta.") It also refused to give any answers at all, like what Kingdom Hearts actually is. ("The heart of all worlds", ok, but what are these baddies planning to actually do with it?) Reaction commands made me feel too button-mashy (X! Triangle! X! Triangle!), but other mechanics, like overdrive, were pretty cool.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Jorpho » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:21 am UTC

I should add that I rather liked the GBA version of Chain of Memories. Like a very primitive version of The World Ends With You, really.

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Internetmeme » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:44 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:I should add that I rather liked the GBA version of Chain of Memories. Like a very primitive version of The World Ends With You, really.

The GBA version was the first I had. I did not like the card system.
I did like the ending though, although
Spoiler:
Riku's pre-built decks were terrible in the later levels.
.
Spoiler:

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Jorpho » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:06 am UTC

Internetmeme wrote:
Spoiler:
Riku's pre-built decks were terrible in the later levels.
Spoiler:
I remember how in the Agrabah level, the trick was to use the Enemy Card that automatically changed 1's to 9's, 2's to 8's, and so on. It was kind of clever - except that it was a very easy feature to completely forget about.

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby infernovia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:57 pm UTC

Worst part about chain of memories was the door that needed level 1 card at the last level. SO MUCH GRINDING. I just hacked it at then end.

I think Kingdom Hearts was a good intro to the action game genre. However, due to the non-intricacy or uselessness of the magic system (cure... and what else?), levelling, and only small attempt at actually making a fun difficult game pretty much stopped me from continuing the series. I enjoyed the under-levelled sephiroth battle and riku battle in the first one, but thats about it.

Also, I don't care what excuse square makes, but the menu system is pretty terrible. Its so hard to use summons and use any magic spell.

The production value is nice however.

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Box Boy » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:22 pm UTC

The second fixed the menu quite a bit actually.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Internetmeme » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:33 pm UTC

infernovia wrote:Worst part about chain of memories was the door that needed level 1 card at the last level. SO MUCH GRINDING. I just hacked it at then end.

I think Kingdom Hearts was a good intro to the action game genre. However, due to the non-intricacy or uselessness of the magic system (cure... and what else?), levelling, and only small attempt at actually making a fun difficult game pretty much stopped me from continuing the series. I enjoyed the under-levelled sephiroth battle and riku battle in the first one, but thats about it.

Also, I don't care what excuse square makes, but the menu system is pretty terrible. Its so hard to use summons and use any magic spell.

The production value is nice however.

I hacked it at the end. It was awesome chaining 9+9+9 ultima weapons together, though for the final boss.
Spoiler:

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby infernovia » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:52 am UTC

The second fixed the menu quite a bit actually.

I disagree! It might have been better than the first, but its still weak. Not that it matters because of how easy the game is.

To see what I am talking about, I want you to actually think about the times you used magic out of the menu list. Not very often huh. You just can't do it on the fly like Devil May Cry.

I think they could have made it better. Instead of using the right analog to scroll the menu, you use R2 and L2 to scroll a figurative menu. The first mode is your regular KH (except no menu) and the right analog changes camera which also allows better camera control. You press R2 once and you get to wizard mode which allows you to cast magic through each of your buttons (press L1+x for activating regular attack combos or L1+circle for specials). You press R2 again and you get to use all of your items (or some other function like summons or something). L2 shuffles back the other way.

Or have it more like DMC where R2 switches melee and L2 switches magic/range.

The advantages these gives to the players are numerous. First, one can actually play spell casting sora while being as responsive as attack sora (thus making wisdom form actually fun). Second, we don't have to scroll through the menu in a fight. Third, you can make the enemies more fun and more magical because players can switch between all the elements on the fly like they are supposed to etc.

Not that it matters, magic was essentially all visual anyway. They really could have done away with this whole thing and just kept cure and aero.

So anyway, I think most people play KH for the production instead of the combat system. Thus all of this is just atmosphere to what is essential to their enjoyment, for most its actually detracting. But for me, the flair just isn't enough and the game needs something else to retain my attention.

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Box Boy
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Box Boy » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:22 am UTC

I just put cure, reflect, thuder and magnet in the shortcuts.
I've never had a problem with magic using that setup, and since the summons are now a seperate menu item I find it easy enough to use them.
Items are still a bitch to use though.
Last edited by Box Boy on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:02 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby frogman » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:12 am UTC

In the first KH I put Gravity and Cure in the shortcuts, because I used Cure a lot (orly?) and Gravity was very effective against those freakin' dog thingies in Hollow Bastion. The other spells I never really used.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:30 pm UTC

For me, it was fire (as a general-purpose nuke), cure (duh), and one other that depended on the situation--often Aero or Stop.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby frogman » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:50 am UTC

Yeah I might have used Stop sometimes. I haven't played the game for a while, though, so I can't remember.
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