Mass Effect 2.

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SirBryghtside
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby SirBryghtside » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:59 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:The Asari Matriarch bartender on Illium.

Great Character or Greatest Character? I want her on my team. Want. Just to hear stories.

Joker.

You just lost.
legopelle wrote:Have you gotten everyone loyal and bought every ship upgrade?

I have only played as Soldier and thought it was a breeze. So I upped the difficulty to insane. My oshit moment was when I realized husks wouldn't be insta-killed by the freeze pistol. The IFF mission was not nice.

I'll definitely be trying vanguard next.

Might want to respoiler that ;)

Spoiler:
But yeah, I had got everyone but Miranda and Samara loyal, for reasons I already explained, and I got all the Ship upgrades as the first thing I did. And looking at Vanvier's Wiki page, I... actually made the right decisions almost all the time. Does that mean it's partially luck-based, and my luck really, really sucked today?
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Spambot5546 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:16 am UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:The Asari Matriarch bartender on Illium.

Great Character or Greatest Character? I want her on my team. Want. Just to hear stories.

Joker.

You just lost.

I gotta say, I'm with SecondTalon on this one. Half-Krogan Matriarch Bartender wins. Others worth note are the "Nice Guy" Turian who is trying to get with some Quarian chick, the Volus who gets high and thinks he's a super-biotic, and Mr Physics-heavy-drill-instructor.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Ryom » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:49 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:The Asari Matriarch bartender on Illium.

Great Character or Greatest Character? I want her on my team. Want. Just to hear stories.


She's voiced by Claudia Black no less. Tali and Garrus have cool voices too. I saw a beer commercial with Garrus' voice actor in it and he sounds almost EXACTLY the same. I'd thought there was more processing done to his voice.

edit: Here is the commercial...

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I bet he calibrated that fridge.

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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Jack21222 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:02 am UTC

Ryom wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:The Asari Matriarch bartender on Illium.

Great Character or Greatest Character? I want her on my team. Want. Just to hear stories.


She's voiced by Claudia Black no less. Tali and Garrus have cool voices too. I saw a beer commercial with Garrus' voice actor in it and he sounds almost EXACTLY the same. I'd thought there was more processing done to his voice.

edit: Here is the commercial...

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I bet he calibrated that fridge.

Ha! Awesome. I played that commercial with my eyes closed at first, and had a completely different mental picture in my head than the video turned out to be.

It was a similar experience to hear The Illusive Man pitching for Midas. I'm trying to find some audio of that, but not having any luck.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby EmptySet » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:21 am UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:
Spoiler:
But yeah, I had got everyone but Miranda and Samara loyal, for reasons I already explained, and I got all the Ship upgrades as the first thing I did. And looking at Vanvier's Wiki page, I... actually made the right decisions almost all the time. Does that mean it's partially luck-based, and my luck really, really sucked today?


Spoiler:
No, it's completely deterministic. I had everyone but Miranda loyal and finished it with no deaths in one try. "Almost all" isn't good enough; any wrong decision will result in at least one death, except perhaps for your choice of who to leave to hold the line (provided your team is strong enough). I'm not sure if you'll actually be able to save everyone since you've got two disloyal people, but you can certainly do better than you did - the only place someone might have to die is when you leave them behind to hold the line.

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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby andrewxc » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:57 pm UTC

Your luck in Oblivion is at least right on your character sheet... :)
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby ArgonV » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:08 pm UTC

Well, I'd say it's far from luck based

Spoiler:
For instance, putting someone who isn't a leader in command of a strike squad is just a dumb decision. Miranda has her own Cerberus-cell, Jacob has been in the army and a reasonably high Cerberus operative and Garrus had his own strike team on Omega. They know how to lead. Choosing Samara or Kasumi would be just stupid, since they're far more solitary. Grunt als doesn't have the required experience, since he's too young.

Now the tech expert is equally obvious. You don't want to have someone like Zaeed, Grunt or Jack. They know nothing about tech. But you've got an engineering whiz, a robot and an expert hacker. Now who should I choose?

And for the one to lead the prisoners back while the other hold the line, choose Mordin. If you've talked to him often enough, he'll tell you he hates holding the line and prefers to sneak around unseen.

Things like that. Don't get to know your team, watch them die.

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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby thecommabandit » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:54 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:
Spoiler:
If you've talked to him often enough, he'll tell you he hates holding the line and prefers to sneak around unseen.

Spoiler:
But if he does die, he has the second most poignant death scene (after Legion) where he says "Tell them... I held the line."
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Spambot5546 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:12 pm UTC

thecommabandit wrote:
Spoiler:
(after Legion)

Spoiler:
Failing to find an off-site backup before a major hardware crash has never been more sad.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby SirBryghtside » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:01 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:Well, I'd say it's far from luck based

Spoiler:
For instance, putting someone who isn't a leader in command of a strike squad is just a dumb decision. Miranda has her own Cerberus-cell, Jacob has been in the army and a reasonably high Cerberus operative and Garrus had his own strike team on Omega. They know how to lead. Choosing Samara or Kasumi would be just stupid, since they're far more solitary. Grunt als doesn't have the required experience, since he's too young.

Now the tech expert is equally obvious. You don't want to have someone like Zaeed, Grunt or Jack. They know nothing about tech. But you've got an engineering whiz, a robot and an expert hacker. Now who should I choose?

And for the one to lead the prisoners back while the other hold the line, choose Mordin. If you've talked to him often enough, he'll tell you he hates holding the line and prefers to sneak around unseen.

Things like that. Don't get to know your team, watch them die.

Spoiler:
I just feel like my thought processes were totally different, but equally logical... gah. This sucks.


EDIT: THEY WERE LUCK BASED. Seriously, read the Wiki (Spoiler warning). 'Ideal members'?

Spoiler:
For my tech guy, hacker was Legion. Picked him, he was loyal, according to the article he was ideal. He died. I don't think you can have more proof than that. If it wasn't, only Grunt and *possibly* Miranda/Samara would have died.

Garrus and Legion should've been safe. Wiki doesn't say anything about loyalty for the biotic protector.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Decker » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:32 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:
SirBryghtside wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:The Asari Matriarch bartender on Illium.

Great Character or Greatest Character? I want her on my team. Want. Just to hear stories.

Joker.

You just lost.

I gotta say, I'm with SexyTalon on this one. Half-Krogan Matriarch Bartender wins. Others worth note are the "Nice Guy" Turian who is trying to get with some Quarian chick, the Volus who gets high and thinks he's a super-biotic, and Mr Physics-heavy-drill-instructor.


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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Yakk » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:41 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:EDIT: THEY WERE LUCK BASED. Seriously, read the Wiki (Spoiler warning). 'Ideal members'?
I suspect with an imperfect team, people can die. Does anyone die on a perfect team?

And
Spoiler:
Note: If an ideal squad member is not loyal for your playthrough, consider them to be a non-ideal choice.

So the Biotic protector, if not loyal, is non-ideal.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby EdgarJPublius » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:07 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:EDIT: THEY WERE LUCK BASED. Seriously, read the Wiki (Spoiler warning). 'Ideal members'?

Spoiler:
For my tech guy, hacker was Legion. Picked him, he was loyal, according to the article he was ideal. He died. I don't think you can have more proof than that. If it wasn't, only Grunt and *possibly* Miranda/Samara would have died.

Garrus and Legion should've been safe. Wiki doesn't say anything about loyalty for the biotic protector.


Spoiler:
How did Legion die? If he died in the vents, it's because you didn't open the gates fast enough and he overheated.

Alternatively, he might have died if the B-squad leader was non-ideal. I think you said you chose Grunt for that role? So that would be the problem.

I chose Thane my first play-through, thinking his crawling-through-vents experience would be ideal, but he got shot in the face due to insufficient door-closing ability which sucked pretty hard.


You don't need to have a perfect team, if you make the right choices, you can get though with only a few key loyal members
Spoiler:
(A technician, a squad leader, and a biotic, then just make sure you have enough allies with a high enough defensive score to survive Holding the Line) I think the wiki makes a note of the minimum number of loyal allies you can have to complete the mission with no deaths. You also need all the ship upgrades
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby SirBryghtside » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:26 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I think I get it now. I didn't realise just how important loyalty was, I guess... mostly because Legion died when he was loyal, that must've been because of Miranda.

Still annoying, though. They easily could've ditched the whole loyalty quest thing for, oh, I don't know, more than 5 Main Quest missions.

Dossier should've been the quick thing at the start, followed by some actual plot development - not GET YOUR TEAM LOOK COLLECTORS NOW COLLECTOR SHIP NOW SUICIDE MISSION-style hyperactivity.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:45 pm UTC

Yeah, that's why I barely did any Team Missions or even side missions in the first Mass Effect. The Urgency thing. As is...
Spoiler:
I'm not going after the Reaver IFF until I'm done dicking around and gathering team members. Because that seems like the kinda thing where all hell may or may not break loose after it, and I'd rather not screw myself over.


While yes, I have read most or all of the spoilers in this thread so I'm aware about team members and urgency events and so on, let's just leave it at my vague memories as to what was said, shall we?
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Yakk » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:14 pm UTC

*nod*, at least in ME2 they didn't say "oh no, it is urgent" when when it isn't.

Instead, they said "go and futz around".

Same situation (futzing around). Still, the futzing around felt almost as "forced" in ME2.

My standard is based around Star Control 2, where you start out clueless (literally -- nobody has much of a clue what is going on), and the "side quests" are things you do while you are both trying to figure out what is going on, and (later) what you need to do in order to solve the big problems you eventually discover.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:36 pm UTC

See Also : Morrowind.

But yeah, while it is maybe a little too explicit, I don't mind a game telling me "Okay, you can go do this thing and advance the story more, or you can dick around. There's literally no penalty for dicking around, and you may not get a chance to dick around again. So.. look, we're saying go dick around and come back when you're tired of it, okay?"

Just to avoid things like .. oh, beating Oblivion at level 12, or blitzing through Mass Effect without realizing it. Things I've done.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Dark567 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:47 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:My standard is based around Star Control 2, where you start out clueless (literally -- nobody has much of a clue what is going on), and the "side quests" are things you do while you are both trying to figure out what is going on, and (later) what you need to do in order to solve the big problems you eventually discover.

Yeah, I love that game for that. Just starting off with no idea whats happening is awesome, probably not everyone's cup of tea, but I enjoyed it greatly.

SecondTalon wrote:But yeah, while it is maybe a little too explicit, I don't mind a game telling me "Okay, you can go do this thing and advance the story more, or you can dick around. There's literally no penalty for dicking around, and you may not get a chance to dick around again. So.. look, we're saying go dick around and come back when you're tired of it, okay?"
This really bugs me. Unsurprisingly due to that my favorite RPG's end up being Final Fantasies, which have very little in the way of explicit dick around time. Not to say I don't like dick around time, but I hate having it feel forced. I guess Fallout:NV did a good job of avoiding that feeling. ME2 not so much.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:56 pm UTC

Well, in New Vegas there's nothing timed. The entire universe is essentially on pause until you act, right up until the last bit when the game explicitly tells you that there's no going back from this next step.

If a game has a "Dick around" component AND a timed "Once this starts, GO GO GO" component, it's very important to let the player know when that moment is going to start. Mostly to avoid the Guide Damn It thing... I mean, to use the Final Fantasy games you're more familiar with... if, without ever playing the game before or reading a guide, you went through the game as dictated by characters (People telling you "Go do this important thing, now!") and at no point was anything outside of your abilities.... if the game prevented you from getting 4 characters into your party because you entered the Space Dungeon after which you're locked in to finishing the game.... would you be cool with that without a handy character right before it saying "Make sure you have everything you need, you won't be able to return" before it?

I wouldn't.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Decker » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:15 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Well, in New Vegas there's nothing timed. The entire universe is essentially on pause until you act, right up until the last bit when the game explicitly tells you that there's no going back from this next step.

You mean New Vegas pulls this shit too? I want to fuck around after I complete the main quest!

Fuckers.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:17 pm UTC

New Vegas Discussion non-spoily spoiler!
Spoiler:
Yeah, the very last mission is a "You don't come back, it's game oven"
Everyone is .. very .. explicit about that.

Honestly, the only real driving force in the game is settling with the people who shot you in the head. Once that's taken care of.. easily the midpoint of the game if you only do story missions... there's no real urgency for anyone, no driving force, no nothing. There's a growing sense of tension, but it's a slow burn. Even right up to the end, the sense is that Something Big is going to happen, not that Something Big is happening.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:47 pm UTC

Decker wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Well, in New Vegas there's nothing timed. The entire universe is essentially on pause until you act, right up until the last bit when the game explicitly tells you that there's no going back from this next step.

You mean New Vegas pulls this shit too? I want to fuck around after I complete the main quest!

Fuckers.


I don't really understand this attitude. Generally finishing the main quest has significant impact on the game world. Doesn't make any sense for the developers to spend huge amounts of time reflecting these changes. Think about it. Almost every single NPC needs new lines, and many of them would require new agendas. Oftentimes there will be significant changes to the world map. And political ramifications. Why would they do all this just so people can finish up unresolved quests? Not to mention this would absolutely obliterate any replay value.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Yakk » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:03 pm UTC

I'd consider the "make sure you have everything you need" character to be a failure.

Have you played SC2? Spoilers follow.
Spoiler:
The game starts with you limping into Earth system after a quick intro slideshow. There, you run into some "do this immediately" and really shallow plot exposition.

You have next to no fuel, so while you can leave Sol system, there won't be much to do before you dead-end.

There are 4 events in the system. The space station orbiting Earth, the Spathi hiding on Pluto, the Ur-Quan security satallite, and the stuff on Luna.

The long conversations (Spathi and Space Station, after the plot) involve people who know marginally more than you do. The Ur-Quan security satallite knows much more, but disengages after sending you a message. Luna has some clues, which only make sense in context.

You don't know it, but there is a timer on the game from the first moment you start. The deadline is reasonably far away, but events will unfold, and if you don't deal with them, you and everything you care about will be destroyed.

You are sent out to gather resources (to upgrade your ship and build new ones). In pretty much every direction, there are alien races that you'll bump into that will generate more plot. In addition, you have to come home for fuel -- and when you do, your station commander will relay some events that have happened since you where last there (be they timed (the ZFP signal), or triggered by you) that they pick up on their long-range sensors and communications satellites, or people showing up at the station as you build your alliance up.

The various alien races tend to be doing things -- other alien races respond to your meddling with change in behavior. You start civil wars, you stop invasions, you start genocides, etc. Admittedly, the races "further" from your home base are less dynamic than the ones "nearby".

As time goes on, you get hints asto when the "deadline" that is approaching is, and what its nature is. You gather technologies that make travel easier, expanding the radius you can explore, and making your ship less tied to returning home. As you fly around the universe poking into things, the various races start moving around in response, and you can ignore them or interfere.

There is no "this is the time to dick around", but in order to figure out what is going on, you need to dick around. And you need allied races for their resources and technology, and sometimes for their plot coupons.

As an explicit example, saving the Pkunk is utterly an option (be it from the Yeehat or the Illwrath). At a number of times, there are plot forks (how do you get a hyperwave broadcaster -- I believe there are 2 of them in the sector?), which have an impact on what the sector will look like post victory.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:19 pm UTC

See, you're comparing Apples and Oranges there. Star Control is not a static universe until you trip over some arbitrary and hidden trigger (unless you consider starting the game to be an arbitrary and hidden trigger). Mass Effect is. If, as soon as you're given control of the ship, you devote yourself to spending every moment scanning/exploring every planet you can, when you're done and ready to continue.. the game's ready to pick up right where you left off, and no one's going to chide you for dicking around so much.

Star Control 2? Fallout? Fallout 2? Those are examples of games that can and do punish you for dicking around too much.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Yakk » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:05 pm UTC

I'm comparing RPGs and RPGs. I find Mass Effects conventions (ie, almost all urgency is not real, and the game is designed to play best if you are aware of this and ignore how "urgent" a given plotline pretends to be, because if you pay attention to that fake urgency (ie, play as if you have buy-in to the game's premise, instead of playing it as if it was a game), entire chunks of the game's plot are skipped and thrown out -- sometimes even to the degree that the game ends up unplayable) to be annoying and get in the way of enjoying the game.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:56 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:I'm comparing RPGs and RPGs. I find Mass Effects conventions (ie, almost all urgency is not real, and the game is designed to play best if you are aware of this and ignore how "urgent" a given plotline pretends to be, because if you pay attention to that fake urgency (ie, play as if you have buy-in to the game's premise, instead of playing it as if it was a game), entire chunks of the game's plot are skipped and thrown out -- sometimes even to the degree that the game ends up unplayable) to be annoying and get in the way of enjoying the game.


Isn't skipping plot a good thing? If you follow every subplot, you kill off any sort of replay value.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby EdgarJPublius » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:25 am UTC

Decker wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Well, in New Vegas there's nothing timed. The entire universe is essentially on pause until you act, right up until the last bit when the game explicitly tells you that there's no going back from this next step.

You mean New Vegas pulls this shit too? I want to fuck around after I complete the main quest!

Fuckers.


The latest patch automatically creates a new save (not an autosave) before you pass the point-of-no-return.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby EmptySet » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:10 am UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:EDIT: THEY WERE LUCK BASED. Seriously, read the Wiki (Spoiler warning). 'Ideal members'?

Spoiler:
For my tech guy, hacker was Legion. Picked him, he was loyal, according to the article he was ideal. He died. I don't think you can have more proof than that. If it wasn't, only Grunt and *possibly* Miranda/Samara would have died.

Garrus and Legion should've been safe. Wiki doesn't say anything about loyalty for the biotic protector.


Spoiler:
The person who dies isn't necessarily the one who is inadequate. This is evident with the biotic barrier - Samara was not loyal, and you said you lost Garrus as a result. If Legion was loyal and died, you must have picked the wrong person to lead the other team. Garrus, Jacob and Miranda are candidates for team leader; since Miranda is not loyal you want Jacob or Garrus.


Yakk wrote:I'd consider the "make sure you have everything you need" character to be a failure.

Have you played SC2? Spoilers follow.

[etc. etc., I like games with hard deadlines, etc.]


I strongly dislike RPGs that have a hard deadline. It makes me feel like I can't take the time to explore and enjoy the world or play around, or to practice the combat system, or if I get stuck or have trouble at all I may as well just stop playing because I'm not going to make the deadline. To say nothing of how irritated I get to have the game suddenly tell me "Oops, we're going to destroy the universe now that you've played for 10 hours. Hope you weren't attached to that character!" It's like I'm playing a timed demo that cuts me off just when I'm enjoying myself, rather than a full game. If I wanted TIMED MISSION GO GO GO YOU'VE GOT THREE MINUTES UNTIL EVERYTHING EXPLODES I'd be playing Secret Agent Guy 4: Bomb Disarmament Extravaganza, where the timer is an explicit part of the mission and the level is designed around it and if I screw up I can just go back five minutes to the start of the mission, instead of having hours of playtime rendered worthless.

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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:35 am UTC

EmptySet wrote:I strongly dislike RPGs that have a hard deadline. It makes me feel like I can't take the time to explore and enjoy the world or play around, or to practice the combat system, or if I get stuck or have trouble at all I may as well just stop playing because I'm not going to make the deadline. To say nothing of how irritated I get to have the game suddenly tell me "Oops, we're going to destroy the universe now that you've played for 10 hours. Hope you weren't attached to that character!" It's like I'm playing a timed demo that cuts me off just when I'm enjoying myself, rather than a full game. If I wanted TIMED MISSION GO GO GO YOU'VE GOT THREE MINUTES UNTIL EVERYTHING EXPLODES I'd be playing Secret Agent Guy 4: Bomb Disarmament Extravaganza, where the timer is an explicit part of the mission and the level is designed around it and if I screw up I can just go back five minutes to the start of the mission, instead of having hours of playtime rendered worthless.


It kinda depends on how it's implemented. Fallout does this in a very non-frustrating way. You have a hard deadline by which you have to perform a certain task. It's not even remotely hard to accomplish this on time as long as long as you keep reasonably focused (it's basically a fetch quest, except you don't know where the object is and have to find out). But completing this mission does not end the game (but failing it does). During your mission you find out about a greater evil you must defeat (without a time limit, so unlimited dicking around).
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Yakk » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:09 am UTC

EmptySet wrote:
Yakk wrote:[etc. etc., I like games with hard deadlines, etc.]


I strongly dislike RPGs that have a hard deadline. It makes me feel like I can't take the time to explore and enjoy the world or play around, or to practice the combat system, or if I get stuck or have trouble at all I may as well just stop playing because I'm not going to make the deadline. To say nothing of how irritated I get to have the game suddenly tell me "Oops, we're going to destroy the universe now that you've played for 10 hours. Hope you weren't attached to that character!" It's like I'm playing a timed demo that cuts me off just when I'm enjoying myself, rather than a full game. If I wanted TIMED MISSION GO GO GO YOU'VE GOT THREE MINUTES UNTIL EVERYTHING EXPLODES I'd be playing Secret Agent Guy 4: Bomb Disarmament Extravaganza, where the timer is an explicit part of the mission and the level is designed around it and if I screw up I can just go back five minutes to the start of the mission, instead of having hours of playtime rendered worthless.

That's a pretty bad reading. Did you play SC2?

There are increasing "signs" that something is coming as you approach the deadline. You'd have to be completely ignoring all of the hooks to be blindsided by it.

And it isn't "you have three minutes" -- I believe the "end" is on the order of years from the start point of the game. (The thing that takes up time in this game is mostly interstellar travel).
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby EmptySet » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:01 am UTC

Yakk wrote:There are increasing "signs" that something is coming as you approach the deadline. You'd have to be completely ignoring all of the hooks to be blindsided by it.


Yes, yes, I know that, but having the deadline still bothers me for the other reasons I stated. Being blindsided is something I have actually seen in other games, though, and I find it completely infuriating.

And it isn't "you have three minutes" -- I believe the "end" is on the order of years from the start point of the game. (The thing that takes up time in this game is mostly interstellar travel).


Uh, that wasn't intended as a literal description of the amount of playtime involved in SC2 before the game ends. Or, indeed, a literal description of SC2 at all. It was hyperbole indicating that if I wanted to be hurried along by some deadline, I'd probably be playing a different kind of game.

Also, unless you mean "years of real-time playtime" - which I highly doubt because in that case there would be no point even having a time limit - it's irrelevant what the game calls it. A time limit of "on the order of years" in a game like Civilization is a couple of turns at the most.

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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Decker » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:05 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:
Yakk wrote:I'm comparing RPGs and RPGs. I find Mass Effects conventions (ie, almost all urgency is not real, and the game is designed to play best if you are aware of this and ignore how "urgent" a given plotline pretends to be, because if you pay attention to that fake urgency (ie, play as if you have buy-in to the game's premise, instead of playing it as if it was a game), entire chunks of the game's plot are skipped and thrown out -- sometimes even to the degree that the game ends up unplayable) to be annoying and get in the way of enjoying the game.


Isn't skipping plot a good thing? If you follow every subplot, you kill off any sort of replay value.

I don't agree with this mentality. As long as all the content gets played, why does it matter if you get in one, long play-through instead of three short ones? I don't want to replay stuff I've already seen three times to see things that I haven't.
Also, in the case of Mass Effect there's still plenty of replay value. I played through my first time as an Infiltrator, second time as a Vanguard, etc. In the case of Fallout 3, I can trying playing as a sniper character or as a melee character, or an evil guy that shoots mini-nukes down the throat of innocent civilians.

EDIT:
EdgarJPublius wrote:
Decker wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Well, in New Vegas there's nothing timed. The entire universe is essentially on pause until you act, right up until the last bit when the game explicitly tells you that there's no going back from this next step.

You mean New Vegas pulls this shit too? I want to fuck around after I complete the main quest!

Fuckers.

The latest patch automatically creates a new save (not an autosave) before you pass the point-of-no-return.

Well, that's certainly a step in the right direction.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Dark567 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:27 am UTC

So I started my second play through as a female vanguard(last time it was a male soldier), and it really breathes a lot of new life into the game. After playing through the first time I wasn't expecting a lot of replay value, but I was terribly mistaken.

Also I didn't realize how many famous actors are did voice work. Troi, Worf, Quark from Star Trek, Jayne from Firefly, Martin Sheen, and Tigh and Six from BSG.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Spambot5546 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:40 am UTC

I decided to do a new playthrough of both games, this time as an engineer. I usually use a femshep, because I like the voice acting better, but this time I made a maleshep. I did this for two reasons. One: everyone knows girls can't do the math required to be a good engineer, and two: I wanted to bang Tali and her sexy, sexy accent.

And Engineers in ME1 are so OP. Once I got Sabotage and Engineer up a little bit almost nothing could ever shoot at me. I would dismount to kill Geth Collosi, because I would sabotage them and the cooldown would be done before they could shoot again.

They're not that exciting in ME2. Mostly just good because I can damage both shields AND armor easily.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby SirBryghtside » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:40 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:So I started my second play through as a female vanguard(last time it was a male soldier), and it really breathes a lot of new life into the game. After playing through the first time I wasn't expecting a lot of replay value, but I was terribly mistaken.

Also I didn't realize how many famous actors are did voice work. Troi, Worf, Quark from Star Trek, Jayne from Firefly, Martin Sheen, and Tigh and Six from BSG.

Don't forget Oz from Buffy.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:09 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:
Dark567 wrote:So I started my second play through as a female vanguard(last time it was a male soldier), and it really breathes a lot of new life into the game. After playing through the first time I wasn't expecting a lot of replay value, but I was terribly mistaken.

Also I didn't realize how many famous actors are did voice work. Troi, Worf, Quark from Star Trek, Jayne from Firefly, Martin Sheen, and Tigh and Six from BSG.

Don't forget Oz from Buffy.

And Claudia Black.

--edit-- Since everyone seems to be using roles rather than names, she's Morrigan, Vala Mal Doran and Aeryn Sun.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Spambot5546 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:28 pm UTC

And EDI is Sarah Kerrigan.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:50 pm UTC

Holy shit, do none of you know anyone's name?

Micheal Dorn, Mirina Sirtis, fucking Seth Muthafucking Green, Adam Baldwin, Armin Shimerman, Tricia Helfer and Michael Hogan.
Or as you people are calling them - Worf, Troi, Oz, Jayne, Quark, Six/Kerrigan and Tigh.

And Keith David as David Anderson. You may remember him as Goliath(Gargoyals)/Julias(Saint's Row)/Big Tim(Requiem for a Dream). Which means you now know that Goliath and Big Tim were essentially played by the same person, which quite possibly just ruined your childhood. You're welcome.

Y'all managed to forget Carrie-Anne Moss in it. She was pretty good in Memento and that one Matrix flick.

The more important question is... anyone surprised that Phil LaMarr is in it? Anyone? No? Exactly.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby Dark567 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:57 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:The more important question is... anyone surprised that Phil LaMarr is in it? Anyone? No? Exactly.

Wait you mean Hermes? Okay got it now.
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Re: Mass Effect 2.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:08 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:The more important question is... anyone surprised that Phil LaMarr is in it? Anyone? No? Exactly.

Wait you mean Hermes? Okay got it now.

Hermes.. Marvin..Jack...Mr. Sunshine... Irwin's Dad/Dracula... The Earth King.. Lancelot.. John Stewart.. Captain Riiken... Static...

Dude's in goddamn everything.
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