Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby J the Ninja » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:50 pm UTC

Well, since the Oracle can lock down turrets, then lock down your minerals, air units might be fairly important to holding it off.

Also, I haven't heard any stats on the Tempest's air-to-ground lighting bolt attack, so we don't really know how effective it will be once all the air is dead.


Btw, Tempest's cost is 300/300/6, 75 seconds. Yes, 75 seconds, not 120. Thank God.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby |Erasmus| » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:15 pm UTC

I believe the burrowed baneling movement is supposed to be a hive tech upgrade. And since any isolated expansions should already be a planetary with a turret to prevent burrowed infestors owning to hard, the losing your mineral line doesn't seem to be an iissue. Honestly with AoE ground damage from a goliath type unit and tankier (but slower) battle hellions, Mech is probably going to be quite good in TvZ which makes banelings pretty useless anyway.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby J the Ninja » Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:32 am UTC

So, how long until this gets patched out? :D

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/m ... rc-shield/
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Toeofdoom » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:01 am UTC

I was wondering about various arc shield cheeses, but figured that because it was for base defence the ability would have a limited range. Anyway I assume they thought of the possibility of it boosting cannon rushes and that's why they made it require a gateway.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Swivelguy » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:52 am UTC

Seems like arc shield either needs a limited range (still a long one so it can cover your base) or only being able to affect large structures (3x3), not pylons, assimilators, or cannons.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby WarDaft » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:45 am UTC

Or make it only target attacking units.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby BlackSails » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:58 pm UTC

arc shield + proxy nexus = win?

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Swivelguy » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:59 pm UTC

WarDaft wrote:Or make it only target attacking units.


Do you mean units that are currently attacking, or all non-worker units?

If the former, that still means you can cheese by arc shielding your pylons to protect them from workers while proxy gates or cannons warp in.

BlackSails wrote:arc shield + proxy nexus = win?


Yeah, that'll work about as well as PF rushing. :D
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby WarDaft » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:44 pm UTC

If the former, that still means you can cheese by arc shielding your pylons to protect them from workers while proxy gates or cannons warp in.
Can you Arc Shield a structure that's warping in? If so, then non-worker units. If not, then currently attacking units.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Shifter » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:19 pm UTC

I'm having a really hard time imagine the swarmhost to actually be good. It looks like it just sort of slowly trickles out a few units every now and again and they will slowly do stuff given the right situation. I take it that the current version is meant to be really cheap at least?

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Yakk » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:47 pm UTC

If even one swarm host can reach your enemy and swing once, that is extremely long-ranged damage with "no cost" to you.

High HP on the locusts is important, as otherwise they will poof before getting into range.

Auto-AOE could be a problem -- enough Auto-AOE could nullify an unlimited size locust swarm.

Speed also matters a lot. A fast locust needs far less HP to engage than a slow locust.

Still, this will be hard to balance. A sufficiently small fraction of the zerg's army being swarm hosts needs to be able to generate locusts with enough HP to reach melee range of an enemy, or they aren't useful for attacking emplacements. And if that is true, then a large fraction of the zerg's army being swarm hosts might generate a ridiculously unstoppable swarm. With it being a "siege" type tech (you need to burrow and wait a cooldown), I guess it should be relatively effective against opponents within range, forcing them to either move out of range or advance on the swarm hosts.

HP/second generated sort of matters -- but really, HP/speed matters almost as much. If the enemy has enough damage output to kill the locusts before they reach them, the attack is nullified (or, at best, it is a small boost to a manual-unit attack).

It could be almost as hard to balance as the two weird protoss units (the harrasser and the cloner).
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:49 pm UTC

Shifter wrote:I'm having a really hard time imagine the swarmhost to actually be good. It looks like it just sort of slowly trickles out a few units every now and again and they will slowly do stuff given the right situation. I take it that the current version is meant to be really cheap at least?


It's a support unit, for controlling space and applying pressure. It's not meant to actually kill anything on its own.

I like its utility, and I think pros will quickly find a good way to play it during the beta.

If it was stronger it would be a Lurker, and Lurkers were tried during the WoL beta and rejected for not fitting with the game well.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby rigwarl » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:04 pm UTC

I really like the new units, seem pretty interesting. The Terran ones are kind of bland though (all of them just... do damage...)

The swarm host seems like it would be pretty similar to a Broodlord except without the autoattack damage component to me.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby NeoSteranko » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:44 pm UTC

oh hey guys, good luck and have fun in Season Four. i think it starts today or smth

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:27 pm UTC

NeoSteranko wrote:oh hey guys, good luck and have fun in Season Four. i think it starts today or smth


Metalopolis is back
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Swivelguy » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:04 pm UTC

Game_boy wrote:
NeoSteranko wrote:oh hey guys, good luck and have fun in Season Four. i think it starts today or smth


Metalopolis is back


And close positions on metalopolis and shattered temple are disabled!
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:45 pm UTC

Swivelguy wrote:
Game_boy wrote:
NeoSteranko wrote:oh hey guys, good luck and have fun in Season Four. i think it starts today or smth


Metalopolis is back


And close positions on metalopolis and shattered temple are disabled!


................

Could have done with that for Blizzcon but I like it.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby NeoSteranko » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:51 pm UTC

uhh soo, hi guys. new to this forum. So as zerg, what are your strategies mainly on this map?

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Shifter » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:58 pm UTC

For the first time in forever, I think the map pool looks decent.

Game_boy wrote:
Shifter wrote:I'm having a really hard time imagine the swarmhost to actually be good. It looks like it just sort of slowly trickles out a few units every now and again and they will slowly do stuff given the right situation. I take it that the current version is meant to be really cheap at least?


It's a support unit, for controlling space and applying pressure. It's not meant to actually kill anything on its own.

I like its utility, and I think pros will quickly find a good way to play it during the beta.

If it was stronger it would be a Lurker, and Lurkers were tried during the WoL beta and rejected for not fitting with the game well.


We'll see.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Spambot5546 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:55 pm UTC

NeoSteranko wrote:uhh soo, hi guys. new to this forum. So as zerg, what are your strategies mainly on this map?

Just tech straight to brood lords. It's what all the pros do.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby NeoSteranko » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:00 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:
NeoSteranko wrote:uhh soo, hi guys. new to this forum. So as zerg, what are your strategies mainly on this map?

Just tech straight to brood lords. It's what all the pros do.


what about the 17 minute transition time?

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Jesse » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:17 pm UTC

Nothing but queens and spinecrawlers.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby psion » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:59 pm UTC

I had another fun run through an observer metalopolis. I had a guy try to mothership rush me, then a few ZvZs where I did a nice hydra timing attack in one of them, and ended with the trademark mass queen play. There were a few other games in between but they weren't as memorable. I guess they're good zerg builds?

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Shifter wrote:For the first time in forever, I think the map pool looks decent.

Yeah, and it only took a little over a year. If only it were in the hands of the community.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Spambot5546 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:19 pm UTC

I always thought it would be interesting if they used procedurally generated maps. The math in making a map that is bilaterally (or up to 4-way radially) symmetrical can't be all that complicated, and it'd make scouting a lot more interesting.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:31 pm UTC

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=279316

Patch 1.4.2

Balance

PROTOSS

Forge

The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200.
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300.
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400.

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175.
The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250.

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175.
The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250.


TERRAN

Ghost EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5

--

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby EdgarJPublius » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:35 pm UTC

I've been noticing that the first game I play after starting up the game is usually the most laggy, tot he point that I've been dropped a couple of times during loading.

After the first game, I don't usually have much issue with lag though.
Has anyone else noticed anything like this? It's really frustrating.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby |Erasmus| » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:13 am UTC

Grr... sea doesn't have new map pool yet. Placed diamond again. Need to go place on NA tonight. Hopefully will hit diamond there with the placement match (during the lock, if I didn't offrace or experiment with stupid thor rushes, I was winning ~90% of my games against mostly diamond opponents).

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby TheBanana » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:57 am UTC

Ugh... i swear every shitty player and their mother is on tonight. Nothing but cheese and retarded allies. /rant
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Sytri » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:41 pm UTC

Just want to say this before I go to bed:

If you're going to play in the 3v3s and you decide to go pure air without making ANY ground troops please tell us. Because that void ray really was useful when we got rushed by the Zerg and only had two players to help defend it.

Gah! :evil:

I know it should be in the rants in general but this is a very specific rant.

Also, I think I need to brush up on my timings. Been away from this for a few months and I come back and can't seem to perform like I did before I left. :(
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby broken_escalator » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:44 pm UTC

I think starcraft rants are pretty acceptable in the starcraft thread. Also, who needs teamwork in teamgames!

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby yurell » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:49 pm UTC

Everyone knows teamwork is for those who aren't smurfing hard enough to do a 3v1, and really — who cares about those guys?
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Sytri » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:55 am UTC

What made it all worse was me and the other team mate kept being matched together. We kept doing enough to just about fend off a 3 man rush but it was wiping out like 90% of our forces and became a war of attrition. Plus it was Greenacres (?) The one with only one ramp so two of use had to spend more to fill it up because our "teamate" barely moved out of his starting area until we were almost dead. Three times it happend, three times it was a different person and three times they were protoss. gah.

Now I'm in bronze. I'm generally silver so no great trouble but just frustrating.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby NeoSteranko » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:57 am UTC

Soo, umm guys, How'd placement go for you? I've been playing SC2 now fr like half a year and I just got into silver. YAY!!

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Sytri » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:50 pm UTC

I got Bronze on my 1v1 and 3v3. I really dont have enough time to improve a great deal. Shame really. Hopefully I can get to silver now that winter is coming and I spend more time indoors.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby |Erasmus| » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:05 pm UTC

I did get diamond from placement, but also went 0-3 when i did my placement cause my net was just dying completely last night ... :(

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby J the Ninja » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:30 pm UTC

I got gold in placement, and am currently sitting at #1 in my division(as of last night anyway), thanks in large part to the fact that none of the protoss players i'm being match with can stop chargelot-voidray. (i had one guy build several more immortals after being phoenix-harassed and being fought off at my ramp by most zealots and a void ray. Go figure)
Shishichi wrote:Applies a sexward force to counter the sexpression effect that Forward Advection can apply to fluid density, particularly along sextainer boundaries. In this way, the sextribute attempts to conserve the overall fluid volume ensuring no density loss.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Yakk » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:48 pm UTC

Immortals are no worse than Stalkers at fighting zealots.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby J the Ninja » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:23 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:Immortals are no worse than Stalkers at fighting zealots.


They can't shoot the void rays though.

Actually, the more I think about this, you'd probably need archons to kill off the chargelots before they just kill all your units.
Shishichi wrote:Applies a sexward force to counter the sexpression effect that Forward Advection can apply to fluid density, particularly along sextainer boundaries. In this way, the sextribute attempts to conserve the overall fluid volume ensuring no density loss.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Yakk » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:47 pm UTC

Sure. But you have a robotics facility already. Collossi are a bad idea (as they are just HP-sponges for void rays, and gas-heavy). So you either build another gateway and shut down your robo facility, or just keep producing immortals (which have the same gas ratio as stalkers).

Really, the right answer is probably to build another gateway and produce a stalker/sentry/zealot mix. Sentries (in moderate numbers) are good against both zealots (FF) and void rays (Guardian Shield). The enemy ends up having a serious mobility advantage on you (as you can only afford to fight at chokes or at good geometry, and VRs can do some serious harrass).

A templar/zealot/archon strategy might also work. Once again, you are mobility impaired.

The real issue here is that protoss lacks good anti-air options: Stalkers suck (damage output of a non-stim marine for 2.5 times the minerals, and a converted cost (3 gas:1 mineral) of 5.5x the cost of a marine), and even toughness wise they don't beat marines cost-for-cost (at converted cost, they have 72% of the HP+Shield soak). Their only saving grace is shield-regen and armor (and blink, which pails next to stim in utility).
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby |Erasmus| » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:18 pm UTC

The correct response is obviously to go blink stalkers. I guess you either add phoenix (to kiill voids, harass and lift up half their zealots) or archons. And aren't blink stalkers still a very common PvP build?


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