Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby psion » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:54 am UTC

I feel like it has to be a caster/utility unit of some sort. It would be a very boring design to be a direct attacking unit, unless the perspective of the silhouette is misleading or it transforms in some way (arms opening).
A bombing ship would either be overpowered in pvz or underpowered in pvt, so I don't really think it's that either. It doesn't fit in the game mechanically as a bomber.

It could be a batwing though.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Kain » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:57 am UTC

It looks a lot like a flying sentry to me...
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby J the Ninja » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:53 am UTC

Another idea that has gotten some traction is that it's the "interceptor" launched by the new carrier/tempest
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:37 am UTC

Looks too much like a Phoenix to not replace the Phoenix.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Kain » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:43 am UTC

Game_boy wrote:Looks too much like a Phoenix to not replace the Phoenix.


Nooooo! I just had an awful thought: They are going to remove the sentry (to rebalance gateway units) and the Phoenix (because they can) and this will be the result. It can lift up ground units, and through down force fields (yes, I can imagine how 'useful' this would be)
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby BlackSails » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:02 pm UTC

Looks like a dark templar corsair to me.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Yakk » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:53 pm UTC

A bomber would be neat. It could fly over units and summon bombs that appear on the ground, and explode?

A T2 unit that hovers. It latches onto enemies, then deals damage over time until the target dies. Upgraded at the fleet beacon to full flight.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby J the Ninja » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:14 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:Looks like a dark templar corsair to me.


Corsair was a DT ship to begin with: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Corsair


Unit lore says Phoenix is an upgraded Corsair, so the lore department would have a bit of spinning to do on this one.


Also....it seems the Corsair is in Wings of Liberty, just not actually present in the campaign or multiplayer? (editor-only?)
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Yakk » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:46 pm UTC

Hovercraft? Shield battery? Flying unit that drops down and grabs ground units? Carrier fighter upgrade? Fighters launched from a slow moving protoss ground carrier? Zealot upgrade that puts them on flying wings?
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Toeofdoom » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:52 pm UTC

Clearly an archon jetpack.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Coin » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:13 pm UTC

Toeofdoom wrote:Clearly an archon jetpack.

Oh great, as if it wasn't enough with the archon toilet, now we're going to get an archon shower as well!
What's next, the archon oven?
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:04 am UTC

Archon slap chop.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby broken_escalator » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:52 am UTC

I think its a giant amulet that gives HT more starting mana. They'll implement it for months and then patch it out of the game.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Bakemaster » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:34 pm UTC

Looks like Spanishiwa may play for us in the CSL tonight. He's the bottom of our lineup so technically it's some sort of optional match or tiebreaker. I wonder how the platinum league U of Idaho Zerg who's lined up to face him feels about it. 9 PM eastern on http://www.twitch.tv/alphaferg if anyone's interested in watching the stream; full lineup info is here.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:42 pm UTC

ITS A TRANSFORMING HELLION

and flying defilers
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby J the Ninja » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:57 pm UTC

Game_boy wrote:ITS A TRANSFORMING HELLION

and flying defilers


protoss: http://imgur.com/qZR1c
zerg: http://i.imgur.com/u0T5R.jpg
terran: http://imgur.com/uAvmT


And a nice typed up set of the descriptions from someone on reddit:

Spoiler:
Terran
Warhound: This versatile factory unit is great against mechanical ground targets and can dish out area-of-effect anti-air attacks.
Battle Hellion: New transformation mode to gain durability in exchange for slower movement, great for fighitng mixed forces using light troops combined with area-of-effect attacks
Shredder: Mobile unit that can deploy and create a whirlwind of death around it. Safety protocols auto-disable the attack if other friendly units enter the danger zone.

Protoss
Replicant: Microscopic robots can fuse themselves to copy a targeted non-massive unit. The replication also auto-enables any specific upgrades of the targeted unit (ex: cloaking, etc.)
Oracle: This flying support unit can scout and disrupt the enemy economy. It can reveal what structures are making and also temporarily disrupt building productions & resource harvesting.
Tempest: Powerful capital ship that dominates the skies with massive area-of-effect attacks against light enemy flyers and a strong beam against ground targets.

Zerg
Viper: Flying unit with support abilities, it can grant detection to units, create a cloud to hinder ranged attacks & abilities, and quickly pull units to safety (friendly) or their doom (enemy).
Swarm Host: This zerg host can gradually spawn endless waves of attackers while burrowed to overwhelm your enemy.


The hellion thing is going to be an upgrade, I guess? Tempest and Warhound sound like they are replacing the Carrier and Thor, from the descriptions. Replicant sounds AWESOME. Would be nice if it worked on massive units, but that would be OP as hell.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby broken_escalator » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:08 pm UTC

So terran get a lurker type unit that wont work if friendlies are around?

Swarm host looks interesting, I wonder if it'll be like a warp prism or if it will just spawn swarm-lings (or w/e).

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:12 pm UTC

Forgot links; I was overexcited.

I really like the new units but I'm seeing a lot of hate around the web. We don't even know what they do yet, the descriptions are quite vague.

The units do appear to encourage mech play for Terran (much better to watch than marine or maurader spam), add space control for Zerg with Dark Swarm, have an actual use for detection in vZ matchups. The Zerg pulling units thing looks interesting if it encourages micro. Terran getting a cheaper ground defence than a Planetary (yes they had bunkers).

I hope the Warhound isn't more cost effective than a Thor against mutas, I liked the muta vs marine/turret/thor zoning game that needed great micro from both sides and the better player always won out.

I hope the Protoss harass unit can actually shoot, and fare at least as well as a muta or banshee in straight up combat.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby broken_escalator » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:15 pm UTC

I was thinking the oracle would be more like an overlord or raven, with less detection but more harass.

Guess we'll have to wait and see!

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Swivelguy » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:18 pm UTC

Actually, swarm host sounds more like a lurker than the terran thing does. None of this sounds very game-changing to me tbh. I know we have only a few sentences to go on, but here's what I think.

Terran get:
- Thor version 2
- Firebats, basically
- Siege tank version 2 (immobile, space controlling, troublesome when friendlies are present)

Protoss get:
- Expensive, permanent neural parasite
- Super overseers
- We apologize for the carrier, have another mothership

Zerg get:
- Half raven/half phoenix (PDD/dark swarm + graviton-beam-like-thing)
- Burrowed brood lord (cause burrowed banelings actually require looking at the map and pressing 2 buttons to inflict total surprise helldeath, we had to make it easier)
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Bakemaster » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:31 pm UTC

Drones and SCVs aren't massive...

O_o
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:35 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:Drones and SCVs aren't massive...

O_o


First thing Artosis does with the demo version is clone an SCV and build a CC

Protoss mules OP.

--

Nexus mass recall. Better use for energy than chrono anyway.

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I'd like them to change the AoE turret to "fires when friendlies are present but damages them too". Would create some interesting situations.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby TheBanana » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:56 pm UTC

Burrow charge for ultras! :D

Also I like that cloning thing for toss a lot
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:12 pm UTC

TheBanana wrote:Also I like that cloning thing for toss a lot


I don't know whether I like it yet, until I find out how much it costs, how difficult it is to get in range and whether you can clone your own units.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby J the Ninja » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:23 pm UTC

Tempest does indeed replace the Carrier, Oracle builds from Stargate, Mothership is gone, Nexus now has Mass Recall:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comme ... ship_gone/
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:01 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:Evolution is a really really really long run-on sentence.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby yurell » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:18 pm UTC

HotS patch 1.1: All new units hit hard with nerf hammer

At any rate, the changes look ... interesting. At least it show Blizzard isn't afraid to change things.

Edit: found this link http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comme ... o_kickass/

Spoiler:
This document lists the new units and abilities in the BlizzCon® 2011 build of StarCraft® II: Heart of the Swarm™. Please keep in mind that Heart of the Swarm is still in development, and all of the units and abilities you see described below are subject to change. It's possible that some of these units and abilities will be discarded and new ones will be created to replace them as we continue to iterate on the game design. What we've listed below is just a snapshot of where we currently stand on multiplayer Heart of the Swarm.

Also note that some Wings of Liberty™ units have been cut -- our goal is to avoid redundancy and maintain a tight and manageable number of multiplayer units and abilities for players to consider as they play competitive matches.

Protoss

Upon analyzing data from their most recent battles, the protoss have identified a few areas of improvement that would help them maximize effectiveness against their enemies. Based on their findings, the protoss have augmented their arsenal with a second psionic unit, a new way to counter flocks of Mutalisks, and a new form of enemy harassment.

Tempest

Description: The tempest is a new capital ship that deals massive area-of-effect damage to air units. It also has a standard ground attack, but its chief role is to help gain air superiority.

Oracle

Description: The Oracle is a psionic warship, built from a Stargate, that uses several unique abilities to raid and harass the enemy. The first is Entomb, which can temporarily block mineral fields from being harvested. Another ability, Preordain, grants vision of a targeted enemy building, allowing the protoss to see which units or technologies are being researched. Rounding out its kit is Phase Shift, which phases a target building, preventing it from being attacked, using its abilities, or granting technology. Not only can structures like missile turrets be prevented from attacking, but using this ability on a zerg Spire would block the production of Mutalisks, Corruptors, and air upgrades.

Replicant

Description: Replicants have one ability: to transform itself into any non-massive unit. They're expensive, so cloning a Zergling would not be very cost effective, but transforming into a specialized unit like a Raven, Infestor, or Siege Tank could open up interesting strategic options for the protoss.

New Abilities

A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus -- this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units. This ability will help the protoss buy time to defend in the case of an unexpected drop from an enemy. Another ability, Mass Recall, has also been added to the nexus, which allows protoss players to teleport armies from out in the field back to the nexus. The recalled units are stunned for a few seconds when recalled.

Retired Units

As we add units to the multiplayer game, sometimes it’s necessary to remove units or alter others’ abilities to maintain game balance and eliminate redundancy. In the current design of Heart of the Swarm, the protoss are not able to deploy Motherships and Carriers, though these and other units that don’t exist in Heart of the Swarm multiplayer will still be available in Wings of Liberty multiplayer and the solo campaign.

Terran

The resourceful terrans have also been improving their technology to better survive their battles in the Koprulu sector.

Shredder

Description: The Shredder is a new unit built from the Factory that allows the terran player to control the battlefield. In its mobile form, the Shredder has no attack -- but when set to stationary mode, it channels area-effect damage to both the air and ground. If a friendly unit enters the range of the Shredder, the weapon shuts off.

Warhound

Description: The Warhound is a small, walking ground mech that wields an effective anti-air weapon with splash damage, much like the Thor from Wings of Liberty. The difference is that the Warhound is smaller and much more nimble, though it gives up some range on its anti-air missiles in exchange for this mobility. The Warhound also wields a small ground attack weapon that does additional damage to mechanical units, making it particularly well suited to taking out enemy Siege Tanks -- though it's not particularly effective against non-mechanical units.

Thor (Modified)

Description: While it was always quite effective against ground and air, one of the biggest problems with the Thor has been that it’s too big and bulky to move around well... so the terrans decided to made it even bigger. In Heart of the Swarm multiplayer, terran players will be limited to having only one Thor at a time, but this new behemoth hits even harder with its regular ground weapons and can absorb a tremendous amount of damage. The terrans have also swapped out the Thor's anti-air weapons for a bombardment ability that does a huge amount of damage to a wide swath of ground. The Thor will need time to set up its bombardment cannons, as well as time to repack them after an attack, much like a Siege Tank. Of course, fielding such a powerful weapon requires a hefty investment in technology, so both an Armory and a Fusion Core will be required before a Thor can be built.

New Abilities

The Hellion has been upgraded to a transforming unit similar to the Viking. When transformed into its new battle mode, the Hellion will gain in hit points and get a stronger flame attack that covers a short arc in front of it. This makes the Hellion more effective in late-game fights against large clusters of light units such as Zealots. The Ghost’s Cloak ability has also been modified -- it will no longer be a toggled effect. Instead, there will be a one-time energy cost to activate Cloak for a specific time duration. Energy regeneration will continue while cloaked, and Ghosts can re-cloak while nuking without interrupting the call-down. The Battlecruiser will gain a speed-boost ability called Redline Reactor, which is governed by a cooldown. And finally, the Reaper no longer has a special building attack, but instead has a passive health-regeneration that allows it to recharge hit points quickly when out of combat.

Zerg

The zerg continue to evolve and adapt to changing environments, particularly the dangers they face on the battlefield. New creatures will help the zerg stage more effective sieges and add unique enemy-manipulating abilities to their arsenal.

Viper

Description: The Viper is a new flying unit with three unique abilities. Blinding Cloud temporarily reduces the attack range of all ground units inside the cloud to melee range, and prevents energy-based abilities from being used. Abduct allows the Viper to physically pull a unit to the Viper’s location. Finally, the Viper has a one-time ability called Ocular Parasite, which allows it to detach its eye stalk and meld it onto any friendly, non-massive unit, turning that unit into a detector.

Swarm Host

Description: The Swarm Host is a slow-moving ground unit that has no standard attack. When burrowed, the Swarm Host spawns a continuous stream of slow-moving melee units called Locusts that can be used to lay siege and pressure entrenched enemy positions.

New Abilities

The Corruptor's Corruption ability has been replaced by a new ability called Siphon that allows Corruptors to target buildings and slowly damage them. This damage is converted into resources for the zerg at the same time. Ultralisks have a new Burrow Charge skill that lets them dive underground and instantly surface at a target, allowing them to initiate the fight faster on a crowded battlefield. Finally, the Baneling has evolved tunneling claws similar to the Roach, which allows them to move while burrowed -- this new evolution will mean other races will need to be even more wary about hidden drops and making sure to have detectors with their army. Finally, the Hydralisk has a new upgrade that allows them to move faster while not on creep.

Retired Units

The Overseer has been cut; its detection ability has been replaced by the Viper and its Ocular Parasite.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:52 am UTC

Tunneling banelings sounds like too much fun to not be OP.

I can't wait :D
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Swivelguy » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:07 am UTC

As if it's not already hard enough to leave your base without a raven in TvZ...
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby BlackSails » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:28 am UTC

I wonder what the timing is on burrowing claws for banelings vs ravens coming out....

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Swivelguy » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:39 am UTC

It's not just about the timing, it's about needing to put 350 gas into starport+tech lab+raven before being able to move out, even if I have no plan to use starport units in my push. And then you have a raven to protect, which has really bad spells and isn't cloaked like an observer.

There's also no nondestructive way to scout tunneling baneling tech. By the time they reveal themselves, the game can be over. This is already a problem with burrowed banes, but at least you can take an unconventional attack path to avoid total calamity.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby psion » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:45 am UTC

Swivelguy wrote:It's not just about the timing, it's about needing to put 350 gas into starport+tech lab+raven before being able to move out, even if I have no plan to use starport units in my push. And then you have a raven to protect, which has really bad spells and isn't cloaked like an observer.

It's not difficult to build a raven at all, it's pretty easy to have one after lair tech. I think the bigger problem is that ravens aren't actually very useful other than detection. But then, tunneling banelings become useless again once there is one. I can't say I'm crazy about that from a design perspective. I much prefer the marine vs scourge vs science vessel vs lurker battle of BW still, but of course we can't have that.

Well, here's my thoughts on everything from that reddit post.
Spoiler:
    Tempest
    Description: The tempest is a new capital ship that deals massive area-of-effect damage to air units. It also has a standard ground attack, but its chief role is to help gain air superiority.

Who knows how well that will work over carriers. Not much else to say other than I don't care for how it looks. Giant photon cannon blasts... boring.

    Oracle
    Description: The Oracle is a psionic warship, built from a Stargate, that uses several unique abilities to raid and harass the enemy. The first is Entomb, which can temporarily block mineral fields from being harvested. Another ability, Preordain, grants vision of a targeted enemy building, allowing the protoss to see which units or technologies are being researched. Rounding out its kit is Phase Shift, which phases a target building, preventing it from being attacked, using its abilities, or granting technology. Not only can structures like missile turrets be prevented from attacking, but using this ability on a zerg Spire would block the production of Mutalisks, Corruptors, and air upgrades.

I can't see Preordain being used at all. I think it'd only be useful for checking for cloak banshees, but assuming that an oracle can get out in time, protoss needs to go down another tech route just to get detection/defense. Phase shift almost sounds too powerful. It's like a super corruption. I wouldn't be surprised if it's toned down. Entomb can't hurt, I guess. I think how fast this unit moves is going to be very important. Too fast and it can never die while constantly entombing or doing other stuff all game long, too slow and it's not really good for anything but catching people off guard.

    Replicant
    Description: Replicants have one ability: to transform itself into any non-massive unit. They're expensive, so cloning a Zergling would not be very cost effective, but transforming into a specialized unit like a Raven, Infestor, or Siege Tank could open up interesting strategic options for the protoss.

I don't know about this. The idea is walking a tight rope between overpowered and underpowered. It'll surely err towards the underpowered side, making this unit hardly used, but I don't mind. It could create some unusual situations every now and then. Funday Monday, only build replicants, is obvious.

    New Abilities
    A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus -- this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units. This ability will help the protoss buy time to defend in the case of an unexpected drop from an enemy. Another ability, Mass Recall, has also been added to the nexus, which allows protoss players to teleport armies from out in the field back to the nexus. The recalled units are stunned for a few seconds when recalled.

I like them, but both abilities have the potential to be too strong. Only 400 minerals for a mass recall in the late game is a dangerous idea. Arc shield could shut down harass and run-bys too effectively.

    Retired Units
    Motherships and Carriers

I don't mind at all.

    Terran
    Shredder
    Description: The Shredder is a new unit built from the Factory that allows the terran player to control the battlefield. In its mobile form, the Shredder has no attack -- but when set to stationary mode, it channels area-effect damage to both the air and ground. If a friendly unit enters the range of the Shredder, the weapon shuts off.

I'm actually really confused as to how this fits in the game. It'd be good for early game TvZ map control, but hellions and marines can already do that. Maybe TvT against bio? I don't get it. If it shuts off when friendly units are around, then you don't actually want anything in that area anyway, because it'll get overrun and killed while doing little damage. I think it'd have to be very mobile to be useful, and even then...

    Warhound
    Description: The Warhound is a small, walking ground mech that wields an effective anti-air weapon with splash damage, much like the Thor from Wings of Liberty. The difference is that the Warhound is smaller and much more nimble, though it gives up some range on its anti-air missiles in exchange for this mobility. The Warhound also wields a small ground attack weapon that does additional damage to mechanical units, making it particularly well suited to taking out enemy Siege Tanks -- though it's not particularly effective against non-mechanical units.

New Goliath. I like.

    Thor (Modified)
    Description: While it was always quite effective against ground and air, one of the biggest problems with the Thor has been that it’s too big and bulky to move around well... so the terrans decided to made it even bigger. In Heart of the Swarm multiplayer, terran players will be limited to having only one Thor at a time, but this new behemoth hits even harder with its regular ground weapons and can absorb a tremendous amount of damage. The terrans have also swapped out the Thor's anti-air weapons for a bombardment ability that does a huge amount of damage to a wide swath of ground. The Thor will need time to set up its bombardment cannons, as well as time to repack them after an attack, much like a Siege Tank. Of course, fielding such a powerful weapon requires a hefty investment in technology, so both an Armory and a Fusion Core will be required before a Thor can be built.

I like this as well. I've always hated the Thor, as some of you may know. Being limited to building one gives the Thor an identity as a powerful war machine instead of a lolamove unit that is pretty good against everything TvZ.

    New Abilities
    The Hellion has been upgraded to a transforming unit similar to the Viking. When transformed into its new battle mode, the Hellion will gain in hit points and get a stronger flame attack that covers a short arc in front of it. This makes the Hellion more effective in late-game fights against large clusters of light units such as Zealots. The Ghost’s Cloak ability has also been modified -- it will no longer be a toggled effect. Instead, there will be a one-time energy cost to activate Cloak for a specific time duration. Energy regeneration will continue while cloaked, and Ghosts can re-cloak while nuking without interrupting the call-down. The Battlecruiser will gain a speed-boost ability called Redline Reactor, which is governed by a cooldown. And finally, the Reaper no longer has a special building attack, but instead has a passive health-regeneration that allows it to recharge hit points quickly when out of combat.

All I can think of from the hellion transformation is a marine nerf, because there's no reason to get "battle mode" hellions over marines, and they're not going to make these hellions more powerful than marines to fix that. The other changes are fine, but I don't think reapers are fixed with such a simple change. Maybe their stats are being twerked as well, though.

    Zerg
    Viper
    Description: The Viper is a new flying unit with three unique abilities. Blinding Cloud temporarily reduces the attack range of all ground units inside the cloud to melee range, and prevents energy-based abilities from being used. Abduct allows the Viper to physically pull a unit to the Viper’s location. Finally, the Viper has a one-time ability called Ocular Parasite, which allows it to detach its eye stalk and meld it onto any friendly, non-massive unit, turning that unit into a detector.
Holee shit. But... why did they call it blinding cloud? Just call it dark swarm. What would you rather hear from a commentator? I can't say much else about this unit because it has the potential to change too much.

    Swarm Host
    Description: The Swarm Host is a slow-moving ground unit that has no standard attack. When burrowed, the Swarm Host spawns a continuous stream of slow-moving melee units called Locusts that can be used to lay siege and pressure entrenched enemy positions.

It's a very poor man's lurker. It definitely looks like it would morph from the hydralisk. I'm not crazy about this unit because I don't really see its role other than to assist in an all-in. For instance, burrowing a few of these just outside of the front door and then hammering them with rallied zerglings. The swarm hosts won't be able to be attacked and they'll constantly be generating free units to assist. Other than that I don't see a purpose for building this unit.
    New Abilities
    The Corruptor's Corruption ability has been replaced by a new ability called Siphon that allows Corruptors to target buildings and slowly damage them. This damage is converted into resources for the zerg at the same time. Ultralisks have a new Burrow Charge skill that lets them dive underground and instantly surface at a target, allowing them to initiate the fight faster on a crowded battlefield. Finally, the Baneling has evolved tunneling claws similar to the Roach, which allows them to move while burrowed -- this new evolution will mean other races will need to be even more wary about hidden drops and making sure to have detectors with their army. Finally, the Hydralisk has a new upgrade that allows them to move faster while not on creep.

I'm kind of sad that they decided not to remove corruptors entirely. Siphon is a very unusual ability, and I'm not sure what to make of it. I guess corruptors can be a useful scouting unit (and siphoning along the way) when they're not actively hunting something, similar to how scourge worked. The ultrarisk burrow movement sounds great, actually. It'll depend on little things, but I think it's a really good move to make the ultrarisk an ultralisk again.

Wait... fucking tunneling banelings? That's huge. Wow. I don't know what to say about that. I never really found burrowed banelings that useful. It's great when it works, but it rarely does. Tunneling banelings means it'll not only work more often, but in situations where it normally wouldn't. For example, a group of marines are sitting jut outside of the range of a turret. A few banelings tunnel their way under the marines, the turret spots the banelings, the marines shoot the banelings, and boom, the marines are dead. Or muta coming in and taking out a pylon/depot on the edge of a base, then dropping some banelings in and tunneling them into the mineral line or something. Or a couple burrowed banelings at an outskirt expansion to kill a drop. It's kind of strange to think about the applications and the possible responses.

Hydra speed is nice of course. I think the stats still need to be twerked for it to be useful, but at least you're not all-in with every hydra engagement, given that you currently can't retreat and they're too costly to lose.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Jesse » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:04 am UTC

They keep saying these retired units will still be available in WoL multiplayer. Have they explained what they mean by that, because I thought the multiplayer was the same fore very game, meaning you didn't need to buy the two expansions.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby psion » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:16 am UTC

Well I'm sure it's going to be like past Blizzard games, wherein they split multiplayer games into people who have the expansion and people who don't. WoL will be fairly unsupported, but people will still be able to ladder on it without any of the expansion changes.
Though it'll be interesting what they'll do for people who haven't bought HotS when LotV comes out. I guess they'll have to bundle the HotS changes but not include the campaign.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Jesse » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:42 am UTC

That's really frustrating. When people were booing about the game essentially being in three parts, they were adamant that you'd only need one game to access the multiplayer, unfortunately I guess I trusted that that meant constant access to all the multiplayer, and not a year's worth of patched multiplayer. Sadface.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:09 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:That's really frustrating. When people were booing about the game essentially being in three parts, they were adamant that you'd only need one game to access the multiplayer, unfortunately I guess I trusted that that meant constant access to all the multiplayer, and not a year's worth of patched multiplayer. Sadface.


HoTS coming out won't change anything in WoL. You'll still be able to play it and they do plan to keep patching it.

GSL finals were pretty good.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Yakk » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:31 pm UTC

I thought Protoss problems was on the over-reliance on the sentry for T1/2 survival. Replicant looks like a toy unit (it will cost more than any non-massive unit probably, so it won't win any efficiency fights), and Oracle as described is completely non-destructive. I guess blocking mineral gathering plus a building working is equivalent to destroying a building and making them rebuild it? But I doubt they'll let you shut down a building for "build time" duration.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Spambot5546 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:00 pm UTC

I found gameplay footage from Blizzcon of some of the new stuff on youtube. This guy's channel has a good supply.

I think it looks pretty cool.

My thoughts:

Swarm host: Nothing says "Zerg" like "slow, methodical grind", right?
Viper: Finally, a way to deal with colossi (via pull) and marines (via blinding cloud). It seems like a unit that will never not be utilized.
Shredder: Did they feel Terrans didn't have enough ability to turtle?
Tempest: I was under the impression it would still be a type of carrier, but it looks like it's just a flying AoE photon cannon.

That channel also has a few gameplay videos for single player only units and man, I wish I could use the raptor in multiplayer.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Game_boy » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:52 pm UTC

The videos make me really want the game now. I love all of the new units.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Slpee » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:24 pm UTC

Tempest
Description: The tempest is a new capital ship that deals massive area-of-effect damage to air units. It also has a standard ground attack, but its chief role is to help gain air superiority.


So Blizzard didn't see it as indicative of anything problematic that Protoss now has two units with the specifically identified purpose of gaining/holding air superiority? What good is air superiority if you can't actually use it for anything? I mean if our only halfway decent air-to-ground is void rays, it really feels like we're getting air power just so that our opponents can't; which is not how to operate an effective air force in real combat. You get air superiority so that you can abuse it against your opponent's less mobile ground armies and base. And meanwhile we lose carriers and mothership; protoss air will be even less viable, but we'll be expected to get it do deal with mutas and the like. Unless we're supposed to copy banshees and mutas with our replicants, which feels very counter intuitive. maybe the ability to fill the holes in our army via replicant will fix it, but I really hope Blizzard knows what they are doing.
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