Roguelikes

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Babam
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Roguelikes

Postby Babam » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:03 am UTC

Does any one know of any good roguelikes for beginers? I just saw a review for a good one in EGM, but I want to consider freebies first
Thanks for the help.
Also what are your best roguelike stories or moments, and tips?
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby semicolon » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:09 am UTC

DOOM: The Roguelike's pretty simplistic, but if you'er gonna play a roguelike, you might as well just dive right in with Nethack.

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby taarnling » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:55 am UTC

Take a look at Ancient Domains of Mystery, or ADOM.

It's the best Rogue-like out there in my opinion. Give a go, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

http://www.adom.de/

Also, if we're lucky the sequel, JADE, will be reaching it's initial release soon. Keep your eyes open.

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby JayDee » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:12 am UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:Does any one know of any good roguelikes for begginers?
This seems like an oxymoron to me, to tell the truth.

There are a bunch of games like the aforementioned DoomRL, that are simpler and/or smaller. There are 7 day roguelike competitions run on a fairly regular basis (one took place recently, in fact) and the time constraints lead to simpler games.

Babamthegrunt wrote:I just saw a review for a good one in EGM, but I want to consider freebies first.
What was the review for? I can't think of many roguelikes that aren't free, unless you start to really stretch the definition. There are the Mystery Dungeon games, which we are starting to get in English. The commercial rogulikes I've seen have been simpler than the free ones.

NetHack and Angband are the biggest roguelikes. I've never been able to stand Angband (although I played moria heaps when I was younger) myself, although some of the variants are nice. SteamBand is a steampunk version, for instance. I can't think of words good enough to describe NetHack. It's a game with enough of a reputation that I'm tempted to include 'Ascended a NetHack Archaeologist' on my resume.

ADoM was mentioned earlier, and it's a good game. Closed source, which is a novelty for the genre. Since I've beat NetHack a couple times, I've been playing Crawl which emphasises the tactical, and can be very unforgiving. Come to think of it, the tutorial in Crawl is a good one, if you are looking for a basic intro to roguelikes.

While most roguelikes have a fantasy setting of one kind or another, my personal favourite is inspired by anime. GearHead is a mecha combat roguelike, with some nice touches. Such as a random conversation generator.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:59 pm UTC

Shiren the Wanderer was reviewed in EGM recently, so it may have been that. It's part of the Mystery Dungeon series, again. If the OP has an SNES emulator, there's the original Fushigi no Dungeon (yes, I had to look that up) games available. I don't know if they got a fan translation, though. The "new" DS game is actually a port of the second one.

Diablo is also arguably a roguelike for beginners.

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Vaniver » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:21 pm UTC

I would recommend Nethack if you're looking for an RPG; Dwarf Fortress is pretty good as a SimCity-esque type of game.

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Pics or it didn't happen.

I actually don't know how I would respond to that on a resume. On the one hand I would be incredibly suspicious; but if it were true I would be incredibly impressed (but wary about game-playing at work :P).
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:32 pm UTC

The EGM review for Shiren has one reviewer saying something like "At one point, I was fighting a wizard who hit me and knocked my back, killing another enemy. To add insult to injury, this leveled him up and in his new, more powerful form, used a polymorph spell on me, which (thankfully) turned me into an arrow-shooting tank. I then ran around the level killing everything with arrows until I turned back into a human and collected 99 arrows. This is why I love Shiren the Wanderer."

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby FACM » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:01 pm UTC

On the DS, Izuna is fairly easy. You can die, but you only lose your gear when you die. You can keep your levels and progress through the game, which makes it a lot nicer than most roguelikes.

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Bisyss » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:25 pm UTC

There's a Rogue-like called Castle Of The Winds that used to play years ago. It even has graphics! :P
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:50 pm UTC

People.. please. I fixed the OP, but the word is Rogue. Unless we really are discussing makeup.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Ondore » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:09 am UTC

The Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games are a good gateway drug if you've already played the original RPGs.

Like Izuna, you just lose the items you bring with you upon death (and as in Shiren, you can call for help online).

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby DYRE » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:06 am UTC

I would have to recommend POWDER.
It's not very complicated (not to say it's easy, at all), and it's available for a wide range o platforms.
It's free, of course, and it even has nice (though, 2d and not animated) graphics.

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby aion7 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:42 am UTC

Just play Nethack. It's hard as hell, but awesome. And it's free.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Babam » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:56 am UTC

I tried to do nethack, but it just confused me, and I tried reading the manual, anything abit more graphical?
Also I played the Hell out of the diablo series (no pun intended)
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:58 am UTC

You can get graphical tilesets for Nethack if you'd like.. as for the confusing factor.. that's kinda a rite of passage thing. Once you grok it, you no longer need a manual.. but until then, you reference it before moving a space to make sure you're doing it right.

So not that extreme, but you get the point.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby JayDee » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:18 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:
JayDee wrote:I can't think of words good enough to describe NetHack. It's a game with enough of a reputation that I'm tempted to include 'Ascended a NetHack Archaeologist' on my resume.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Pics? This is NetHack, I wouldn't need to use photoshop, just notepad to mock something up :P . This and this are the best I can do. There was a wizard in between those two, but I mustn't've posted a YAAP for that one. It's funny, because I don't think NetHack is unbeatable anymore, but I meet people (in meatspace) every now and then that react much like you did.

Vaniver wrote:I actually don't know how I would respond to that on a resume. On the one hand I would be incredibly suspicious; but if it were true I would be incredibly impressed (but wary about game-playing at work :P).
While I probably wouldn't ever put it on a resume, I think it's a good answer if I'm asked "what is your proudest achievement" in an interview. Maybe.

Babamthegrunt wrote:I tried to do nethack, but it just confused me, and I tried reading the manual, anything abit more graphical?
There are tilesets for NetHack, including Vulture's Eye which has isometric graphics. Most games have a tileset available, but I can't really recommended them. I find the ASCII look of the games to be one of the main attractions.

The manual for Nethack (and most other roguelikes) are, less that great. I'll recommend Crawl again, you can play a tutorial which provides in-game context-based help (like any good tutorial.)
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Kithplana » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:21 am UTC

Bisyss wrote:There's a Rogue-like called Castle Of The Winds that used to play years ago. It even has graphics! :P

<3

Seconded, especially for the beginner aspect. CotW is pretty easy but still entertaining.
now I wanna play...

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby JET73L » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:00 pm UTC

JayDee wrote:I can't think of words good enough to describe NetHack. It's a game with enough of a reputation that I'm tempted to include 'Ascended a NetHack Archaeologist' on my resume.
Kudos for you!

babamthegrunt wrote:I tried to do nethack, but it just confused me, and I tried reading the manual, anything abit more graphical?

There's a nethack remake for the DS if you've got a homebrew adapter (works great on my DS media player), and it's got bopth graphics and a subscreen where you choose your actions from a list, so you don;t get bogged down in syntax errors. Other than that, though, I do prefer the original NetHack, which is my recommendation. Izuna, if I recall correctly, was playable, and I've heard good reviews of Diablo and Steamband (may have played demos of them a while back), but like I said, I suggest NetHack.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby jabberwock33 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:29 pm UTC

*Snatched out of the maw of the page two monster*

Angband is a great roguelike. It's a bit easier to learn than Nethack, and there are dozens of variants if you later want a more complex game.

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Narsil » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:07 am UTC

This is by no means the shallow end of the Rougelike pool, but I need to tell someone because it's the awesomest game ever.

http://angband.oook.cz/steamband/steamband.html

It's called Steamband, and it's what it sounds like: a Victorian/Steampunk rougelike, with trace elements of Lovecraft. It's tough, but a lot of fun if you want a different feel than the standard fantasy games.


On the subject though, last night I made a new character and I really thought it was going to be one that would go far. I put so much thought into stats and equipment, and I got 4 levels before I started talking to my girlfriend on the phone and held down a key to get through a long hallway quickly. There was a nail in the floor. My character had died of infection before I reached the end of the hallway. My GF had to console me for a while after that one.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby taarnling » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:36 am UTC

Narsil wrote:This is by no means the shallow end of the Rougelike pool, but I need to tell someone because it's the awesomest game ever.

http://angband.oook.cz/steamband/steamband.html

It's called Steamband, and it's what it sounds like: a Victorian/Steampunk rougelike, with trace elements of Lovecraft. It's tough, but a lot of fun if you want a different feel than the standard fantasy games.


This looks great and I'm going to give it a thorough bit of playing. Actually already started, though I'm only in character creation. I think it's great, if very odd, that Asians get infravision!

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Pobega » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:45 pm UTC

I don't know if I suck at NetHack or what, but here it goes:

When I play I usually play as a female Valkyrie for the easy Excalibur, but I tend to always die in the Gnomish mines at around level 10. My best game ever I got to dLvl 18, which is an accomplishment for me...Does anyone have any tips to help me survive longer? (Usually how I do die is by getting ambushed...It's not fun to be jumped by five big monsters at once)

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby JayDee » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:38 pm UTC

Getting ambushed is a good way to die. Avoid it. Don't fight out in the open if it can be helped (the open spaces in the Gnomish Mines is what makes it a difficult area,) stick to the hallways where only two monsters can attack you. Have a way to escape, and be prepared to run away. Monsters don't follow you up stairs. Teleportation is useful, scrolls as a getaway, or wands (which can be used on you or the monsters.)

I'm trying to remember what it was that got me past that spot in Nethack, and the only thing that comes to mind is using 'Elbereth'. Using it lots. Lots and lots.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Habz » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:46 pm UTC

Roguelikes usually end up driving me nuts... Most of the time It feels like the RNG is just a cruel hitman in disguise.

Nevertheless, I've spent hundreds of hours playing ADOM. Even managed to win the game a couple times too. I tried out NetHack and Dungeon Crawl also, but didn't like 'em as much.

JADE looks kick-ass based on the pics and vids released so far. I'm sensing a no-life mode being activated when playable version is released :P

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Pobega » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:52 pm UTC

JayDee wrote:Getting ambushed is a good way to die. Avoid it. Don't fight out in the open if it can be helped (the open spaces in the Gnomish Mines is what makes it a difficult area,) stick to the hallways where only two monsters can attack you. Have a way to escape, and be prepared to run away. Monsters don't follow you up stairs. Teleportation is useful, scrolls as a getaway, or wands (which can be used on you or the monsters.)

I'm trying to remember what it was that got me past that spot in Nethack, and the only thing that comes to mind is using 'Elbereth'. Using it lots. Lots and lots.


I know about Elbereth, but I've yet to find any way to write it...Unless perhaps I'm just missing something obvious?

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby SoapyHobo » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:17 pm UTC

you can write it in the dust on the floor with your fingers by Engraving then pressing -
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby DYRE » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:43 pm UTC

Although, writing with your fingers isn't a very good way to write Elbereth, as messages are quickly obscured, rendering Elbereth ineffective.

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby JayDee » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Writing with your fingers is an excellent way to write it. Don't just write it once, though. Eight letters takes one turn, so each turn add an extra Elbereth to the engraving (or writing in the dust) If you start as soon as you see a monster you know is too tough, there will be at least a couple by the time it reaches you and it will turn and flee. Drop a single coin on the square and retreat.

In any case, you only need the word to last long enough that you don't die now. You can also use certain wans to burn a message into the floor, which can be far more effective than using them offensively.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Pobega » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:05 am UTC

Is there a command in Nethack to redo the previous action instead of having to retype Elbereth every single time I want to write it on the floor?

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby JayDee » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:16 am UTC

Hmm. Not that I can think of. I remember typing it over and over, in any case. I think repeating the command would repeat the Engrave command, and you'd have to type it all out anyway.

I'm loving the macros in Crawl that could do something like this, but I don't think vanilla NetHack has that type of facility.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Narsil » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:13 am UTC

I am currently in the process of discovering how freaking awesome Angband is.
Oh, and we should all get together and play MAngband. It's some fun stuff. definitely not what every roguelike should be, but it answers the question quite well of "I wonder what it would be like if roguelikes were multiplayer?".
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby notzeb » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:19 am UTC

Narsil wrote:I am currently in the process of discovering how freaking awesome Angband is.
Oh, and we should all get together and play MAngband. It's some fun stuff. definitely not what every roguelike should be, but it answers the question quite well of "I wonder what it would be like if roguelikes were multiplayer?".
I used to play that ALL THE FRICKIN' TIME. At one point I started dreaming in ASCII. Here was a typical nightmare:

Code: Select all

###############
ZZZ.ZZ<ZZ.....#
Z.ZZZZZZ....@.#
##.Z###########


I hope to god that my account has been deleted by now, though. Crimson was always so lazy about deleting old accounts...
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby diotimajsh » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:50 am UTC

Ooh, I like the recommendations in this thread. I just DLed Steamband, and it's great fun (so far). MAngband also looks very intriguing (and I think playing with xkcd'ers sounds kinda awesome).

I play NetHack off and on over the years, but I'm never any good at it. Bloody hard game, that.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby TheAmazingRando » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:32 am UTC

I just recently started playing nethack, and I'm already hopelessly addicted.
That being said, I suck at it. I haven't made it far at all yet, I keep dying of hunger with no comestibles anywhere nearby, or being otherwise killed.
Any good tips for a beginner?

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Jebobek » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:23 pm UTC

For about a half hour before I fall asleep in bed I turn on my DS and get on Pokemon mystery dungeon (Explorers of time). Its easy, every game morning the little fellas cheer, and the whole storyline is basically someone patting you on the back saying "good job!". Best relaxation ever.

Oh until something one-shots you, that kinda sucks =/

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Re: Roguelikes

Postby TaintedDeity » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:23 pm UTC

That steamband looks great.
Now, for a moment, let's pretend I have no knowledge of computers at all and want to download this game for a windows system.
How would I, hypothetically of course, download this game?

I've obviously figured this all out already, I just ask for others who might be confused.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:43 pm UTC

Steamband for Windows, I presume?

First, I would go to the Steamband Homepage and click their download link (currently cleverly titled "x86 Windows compile of Steamband 0.4.1final" which should download a file called Steamband-041f-WIN.zip

Then I'd extract that to it's own directory. Having done that, I'd simply run the steamband.exe file from the directory where I extracted it.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby TaintedDeity » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:58 pm UTC

Yup, that's exactly what I did too :wink:
On behalf of those that might be confused by "x86" and the word "compile" I'll say thank you.

I hope this is good.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Toeofdoom » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:14 am UTC

I'm playing nethack at the moment actually... I managed to get up to dungeon level 7 but at that point I kicked a door open that I wasnt meant to and got killed by 3 watchmen.
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Re: Roguelikes

Postby Smok3y » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:52 am UTC

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned I'm seconding Shiren the Wanderer. Shiren is the best example of "beginner" roguelike that I can think of. It was originally an SNES game only released in Japan (there is very nice translation patch though) but recently a DS port was released in the US which is supposedly very faithful to the original.

Shiren has pretty graphics and fairly intuitive controls (for a roguelike). It manages to simplify things without subtracting too much from the roguelike experience, though someone with a very strict definition of roguelikes might be slightly disappointed as there are side quests which have effects that carry over between games, and a limited ability to carry certain items and equipment over as well. Despite that I believe it would be perfect for easing someone into the genre. I would recommend beginners and veterans at least giving it a try, it's a very neat game.

(I feel like I haven't done the game any justice. There's some fairly long-winded articles that describe the finer points of the game from the @ Play guy here, here, and here. These are what got me playing Shiren. )


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