Portal! WILD MASS GUESSING AND THEORIZING AND BULLSHIT!

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

Who do you trust more?

Mainstream Media
39
11%
GLaDOS
305
89%
 
Total votes: 344

User avatar
headprogrammingczar
Posts: 3072
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:28 pm UTC
Location: Beaming you up

Re: Portal + HalfLife

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:23 am UTC

Xanthir wrote:
jerdak wrote:
BlackMesa wrote:I wonder how well AI would be able to handle portals. Portal didn't really have to deal with that because all of the enemies were stationary, but it would be interesting to see if combine would follow you into a portal and then you change the exit side and they fall off a cliff or something. Or if they would just ignore the portals all together.


That would be an interesting design challenge to take on in Portal 2 . Do you first calculate the shortest path from AI to target and then create a second path through the nearest portal to see if it is shorter or do you simply calculate from A to B and then fire a quick path through the nearest portal to see if it intersects the first path. It'd be hard to do any sort of front-wave propogation algorithm since it would more than likely ignore a portal if it wasn't close enough. I'd imagine you would still want the AI to calculate 2 paths simply so to save on computation cost if the user quickly moves the entrance or exit. Maybe have a precognitive falloff so that AI already heading through a portal wouldn't have time to "react" to the user creating an exit allowing for some fun use of portals off cliffs.

A bog-standard A* pathfinding algorithm will handle portals just fine.

Or Djskratcha's algorithm (I hate trying to spell his name). I actually forget why it is better off the top of my head, and I can't google it because I can't spell it correctly. But still...
<quintopia> You're not crazy. you're the goddamn headprogrammingspock!
<Weeks> You're the goddamn headprogrammingspock!
<Cheese> I love you

User avatar
jerdak
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:07 pm UTC
Location: MA.
Contact:

Re: Portal + HalfLife

Postby jerdak » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:40 am UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:
Xanthir wrote:
jerdak wrote:
BlackMesa wrote:I wonder how well AI would be able to handle portals. Portal didn't really have to deal with that because all of the enemies were stationary, but it would be interesting to see if combine would follow you into a portal and then you change the exit side and they fall off a cliff or something. Or if they would just ignore the portals all together.


That would be an interesting design challenge to take on in Portal 2 . Do you first calculate the shortest path from AI to target and then create a second path through the nearest portal to see if it is shorter or do you simply calculate from A to B and then fire a quick path through the nearest portal to see if it intersects the first path. It'd be hard to do any sort of front-wave propogation algorithm since it would more than likely ignore a portal if it wasn't close enough. I'd imagine you would still want the AI to calculate 2 paths simply so to save on computation cost if the user quickly moves the entrance or exit. Maybe have a precognitive falloff so that AI already heading through a portal wouldn't have time to "react" to the user creating an exit allowing for some fun use of portals off cliffs.

A bog-standard A* pathfinding algorithm will handle portals just fine.

Or Djskratcha's algorithm (I hate trying to spell his name). I actually forget why it is better off the top of my head, and I can't google it because I can't spell it correctly. But still...

"dijkstra"

And yes a "bog standard" A* algorithm will work but what happens if we allow for multiple entrance portals? Does it recalculate a shortest path every single time a new portal is opened? How does it determine if a portal on the ceiling is the fastest route? If I open an entrance in front of a bot and an exit over lava will it know what it's end will be. That's what I mean by interesting. Searching along a 2D or Semi-2D space is easy, searching against the possibility of dropping from the sky is a bit tougher. The few times I've done a path finding algorithm the search criteria had many considerations such as ammo drops, health, distance from exits, etc. Plus with a lot of my bots I tend to pre-bake the quick routes between important areas of the map to save on later computation. Such learning would be trickier.

I was perhaps not addressing what would happen but how much fun it would be to work on this problem for the next gen. game. I don't want typical, I want unique.
"Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write it should be hard to read."

User avatar
Xanthir
My HERO!!!
Posts: 5426
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:49 am UTC
Location: The Googleplex
Contact:

Re: Portal + HalfLife

Postby Xanthir » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:18 pm UTC

jerdak wrote:And yes a "bog standard" A* algorithm will work but what happens if we allow for multiple entrance portals?

Absolutely nothing. It still works.

Does it recalculate a shortest path every single time a new portal is opened?

Obviously. A new path has opened.

How does it determine if a portal on the ceiling is the fastest route?

The same way it would know any other portal. This one actually does require just a bit of intelligence behind it, only because you have to be able to tell what parts of the floor are reachable from the ceiling portal.

If I open an entrance in front of a bot and an exit over lava will it know what it's end will be.

The path going through the portal will cross lava. So yes.

That's what I mean by interesting. Searching along a 2D or Semi-2D space is easy, searching against the possibility of dropping from the sky is a bit tougher.

Not by much.

The few times I've done a path finding algorithm the search criteria had many considerations such as ammo drops, health, distance from exits, etc.

This obviously makes it more difficult, but all it does it affect the weighting of paths.

Plus with a lot of my bots I tend to pre-bake the quick routes between important areas of the map to save on later computation. Such learning would be trickier.

Actually it would be impossible. You couldn't do that anymore. Even if all the paths through portals are longer, by the time you'd be able to confirm that you'd already have *found* the shorter non-portal path, and would have stopped pathfinding.

I was perhaps not addressing what would happen but how much fun it would be to work on this problem for the next gen. game. I don't want typical, I want unique.

Pathfinding doesn't really need to be 'unique'. I'd actually prefer it not be. Intelligent, yes, but the algorithms are easy.

Edit: I am struck by something. Do you know how A* works? Well, first, it's a more efficient generalization of Dijkstra's algorithm. Basically you split the gameworld up into nodes (these usually have a bit of distance between them, but are close enough that moving between them looks fairly natural). Then, starting from your current node, you calculate the distance to all your neighbor nodes, and add the *estimated* distance from the neighbor node to the destination (this estimation must be a lower bound for A* to be guaranteed to find the optimal path). Now, drop all these distances into a priority list, and repeat the process with the lowest-distance node, until you reach the destination. Then you can trace the path backwards, and follow it.

Putting portals into the mix means two things: you need to dynamically add node-to-node connections for the nearest nodes on either side of the portal, and you need to come up with a distance estimator that takes portals into account and still remains a lower bound.

The first is trivial, and the second seems easy. A normal distance estimator is just euclidean distance - the distance if you just flew in a straight line toward them. This is obviously a lower bound. With portals, you just need to calculate several euclideans. First take the naive one, then take the euclidean from the node to a portal, and add the euclidean from the end-portal to the destination. Repeat this for every portal. Take the minimum as the distance estimation. This is guaranteed to be a lower bound, and should produce some decent results. If you're only working with one set of player-created portals at a time, this only adds four additional distance calculations (two to each portal and from each portal), which isn't horrible.
(defun fibs (n &optional (a 1) (b 1)) (take n (unfold '+ a b)))

User avatar
headprogrammingczar
Posts: 3072
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:28 pm UTC
Location: Beaming you up

Re: Portal + HalfLife

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:39 pm UTC

One optimization I can think of that would help is tying the pathing in with the visibility system. Instead of finding the path from one point to another, you use the BSP tree to find a path through the visleafs to the one you want, then find the quickest path through each leaf. That should shorten the search tree considerably. Handling impassable visleafs can easily be handled by an additional loop in the map compile process. The portals can be handled as ad-hoc connections between visleafs (which is exactly what the visibility system treats them as anyway). At the end of the day, it is a simple tree traversal. As far as AI holding portal guns works, Valve would probably be better off leaving that problem for a later game.
<quintopia> You're not crazy. you're the goddamn headprogrammingspock!
<Weeks> You're the goddamn headprogrammingspock!
<Cheese> I love you

User avatar
jerdak
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:07 pm UTC
Location: MA.
Contact:

Re: Portal + HalfLife

Postby jerdak » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:57 pm UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:One optimization I can think of that would help is tying the pathing in with the visibility system. Instead of finding the path from one point to another, you use the BSP tree to find a path through the visleafs to the one you want, then find the quickest path through each leaf. That should shorten the search tree considerably. Handling impassable visleafs can easily be handled by an additional loop in the map compile process. The portals can be handled as ad-hoc connections between visleafs (which is exactly what the visibility system treats them as anyway). At the end of the day, it is a simple tree traversal. As far as AI holding portal guns works, Valve would probably be better off leaving that problem for a later game.


Oh right, I'd forgotten about Valve's visleaf structure. That'd be an interesting way to cull the search space a bit. And regarding NPC portal guns: I was thinking, as I said, more for Portal 2. But methinks I'm getting out of topic since the author was really just talking Portal + Halflife storyline crossover.

Xanthir wrote:I am struck by something.


I'm hoping a lightspeed coconut but if wishes were horses then beggars would ride.

Xanthir wrote:Do you know how A* works?


Sure do but rest assured if I didn't I'd use that fancy widget on the top right of Firefox to look it right up. What's that new-fangled site called again, gugle?... That'd be a fun porn name.

Xanthir wrote:Pathfinding doesn't really need to be 'unique'. I'd actually prefer it not be. Intelligent, yes, but the algorithms are easy.

Again I maybe should have been more specific. Or maybe I've got to stop writing stream of consciousness style since no one here can read my mind... or can you. ("Take off your clothes and try typing with your man parts.") Anyone? I was thinking more that pathfinding and all the accompanying AI for handling positioning after portal jumps and allowing for NPC portal guns would be unique. I agree that pathfinding algorithms should be kept simple and generalizable. Plus, as you say, A* is fast,easy, and well understood already. No need to reinvent the wheel. Well as I mention above I think I've got a bit far afield from the authors original intent. Perhaps this discussion would be better served in a Portal 2 thread.
"Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write it should be hard to read."

User avatar
Phen
Posts: 1184
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:50 pm UTC
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Portal + HalfLife

Postby Phen » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:44 am UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:
Sir_Elderberry wrote:I've imported HL2 maps into Portal and used it to try these things.

Storming Nova Prospekt by throwing grenades through portals is great.

I must try that out, sounds like more fun than a super gravity gun and ravenholm.

I never got that to work :'(
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

User avatar
sherriffkid
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:54 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby sherriffkid » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:07 pm UTC

Sorry to reinvigorate this topic. From what I've read you've all failed to mention GLaDOS' comment that "You are the pride of subject [unintelligible]" Showing that Chell was indeed the child of a previous test-subject. Although this may refer to the cloning process. Also from what I can tell GLaDOS is a weapon because on the Aperture Science website it talks about trying to kill people with the shower curtains and the leaked script where the mentally unstable Cave Johnson is incarnated in a computer. The cake may not be a lie.

User avatar
phlip
Restorer of Worlds
Posts: 7573
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:56 am UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby phlip » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:08 pm UTC

Are you referring to the line "You, [subject name here], must be the pride of [subject hometown here]"? 'Cause that's the only one that comes to mind...

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

Xaddak
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:28 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Xaddak » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:58 am UTC

Yeah, that wasn't really unintelligible for me either.
Are you on this forum? Do you play EVE? Then join the xkcd channel! In your chat window, click on the speech bubble in the upper right corner. In the window that opens, type in xkcd and hit join.

-X

User avatar
rrwoods
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:57 pm UTC
Location: US

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby rrwoods » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:21 pm UTC

Xaddak wrote:Yeah, that wasn't really unintelligible for me either.

I think the captions confirm this.
31/M/taken/US
age/gender/interest/country

Belial wrote:The sex card is tournament legal. And I am tapping it for, like, six mana.

User avatar
Uber_Apple
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:07 am UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Uber_Apple » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:33 pm UTC

i vaguely remember something about bring your daughter to work day being the day GLaDOS gasses everyone so mabye chell was there with her parent and escaped the gas but got stuck in the training system (---> Portal).

but mabye im just mixing storylines from somewhere else...its been ages since i played portal

User avatar
Isotope_238
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:59 pm UTC
Location: The Galaxy of a Thousand Rubies

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Isotope_238 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:49 pm UTC

GLaDOS, because she's only in it for herself. Media can be bought out or have a personal bias. GLaDOS just wants you dead.

Plus, she sang "Still Alive."

User avatar
Strilanc
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:18 am UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Strilanc » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:29 pm UTC

GlaDOS is totally untrustworthy. Everything it says is to manipulate you, not to inform you (also to be funny). I wouldn't put much thought into deciphering the truth or hidden meanings of what is said.

As for the story, I assumed a previous test subject made it as far as the big room at the end. Then they freaked out, turned around, and left markings so they could get back if needed. Then they spend their time hiding in the testing areas going insane.
Don't pay attention to this signature, it's contradictory.

Zero51423
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:17 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Zero51423 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:33 pm UTC

Vivek wrote:i vaguely remember something about bring your daughter to work day being the day GLaDOS gasses everyone so mabye chell was there with her parent and escaped the gas but got stuck in the training system (---> Portal).

but mabye im just mixing storylines from somewhere else...its been ages since i played portal


This would make sense at least a little. Chell DID have the ingenuity and intelligence to solve the test chamber puzzles, so whats to say she wouldn't recognize that a good was to survive a neurotoxin attack by hiding in what appears to be an airtight chamber. (the relaxation chamber)

Of course, somebody had to let her in there, but it could have been whoever brought her.

really there is no way for us to be certain, as Valve probably hasn't finished deciding of the entire story yet...

User avatar
psion
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:33 am UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby psion » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:44 pm UTC

Old thread, but I didn't see any links to this blog. Be sure to follow the links, as he has about six entries. It's an interesting read, if nothing else.

User avatar
ThorFluff
Ursus Onanis
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:53 am UTC
Location: Stockholm - Sweden
Contact:

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby ThorFluff » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:30 pm UTC

HI!
New perspective.

If we look at what valve has done before, what would be the most dramatically likely scenario? Is the G-Man Cave Johnson? Is he Rat-Man?
Spoiler:
Eli Vance apperently dies without telling you who he is or how he does what he does. B
ut he appears to indeed have some scheme in mind. And a boss of his own. Is his boss GLaDOS?
EsotericWombat wrote:You're... calling the Rolling Stones emo.

It might take a while to gather the lynch mob. no one really planned against this eventuality.


krynd wrote:That'd make an awesome sig. Unfortunately, I'm sure self-sigging isn't allowed...

User avatar
phillipsjk
Posts: 1213
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:09 pm UTC
Location: Edmonton AB Canada
Contact:

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby phillipsjk » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:40 pm UTC

I couldn't suspend my "meta-disbelief" for this game. The portal gun does not appear to follow any consistent laws of physics (The textures you can apply portals to seems arbitrary). Because GLaDOS is a perpetual liar, I have no reason to believe the tests are taking place in a "Real" environment; especially with strong evidence to the contrary:

Spoiler:
  • You start by leaving a "relaxation pod". Looks more like a VR simulator to me.
  • Lack of falling damage. (probably makes the game playable)
  • Display shimmers in elevators. (Deliberate effect?)
  • You respawn when you die. I doubt cloning technology will ever be that quick.
  • The portals cannot cross the "fizzlers" (work-around for game-engine technical limitation)
  • Even after you "finish" the testing, you still respawn: even if you assume the position when requested.
  • Found a bug where the momentum of the object your are carrying is not conserved/consistent with your momentum. (Tried to take a wrench with me on a "fling")
  • Even after you "escape" you do not have a free-run of the plant. Instead, you follow a prescribed, convoluted path to a classic "boss fight."
  • Most the moving pistons appear to have no real function (to the building) except making your life difficult. I was reminded of the arbitrary barriers during the fight scene of Star Wars Episode 1.
  • I tried following GLaDOS's suggestion of putting the part back or tucking it in the corner. Neither actions had any effect.
  • The whole plant being a simulation explains the directions painted on the walls. Meta: if you think about it, it actually is a simulation
  • After making your way "up" for a while in an attempt to escape, the catwalks still stretch up as far as the "eye" can see (at least 300m). "Decorative" catwalks end in walls, not doors. See also huge cavern GLaDOS's chamber is stored in. Seems like a lot of digging to make the facility "look cool".
  • After the boss fight, objects in the room start to fly away and the screen fades to white.


Frankly, I was surprised when I played with the developer commentary on. They claim a lot of elements in the game were designed to give you the feeling of escaping from the simulation. Meta: but any simulation could be designed that way; with limited success.

I have not yet played HL, but the whole "simulation" hypothesis quietly side-steps any debate over when the events take place in the HL universe.

Summary: If you want to escape out into the "real world," go. Now. Turn off your computer if that helps.
Last edited by phillipsjk on Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:34 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
Did you get the number on that truck?

Ralith The Third
Don't Ask About His Nephews
Posts: 782
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:21 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Ralith The Third » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:53 am UTC

Zero51423 wrote:
Vivek wrote:i vaguely remember something about bring your daughter to work day being the day GLaDOS gasses everyone so mabye chell was there with her parent and escaped the gas but got stuck in the training system (---> Portal).

but mabye im just mixing storylines from somewhere else...its been ages since i played portal


This would make sense at least a little. Chell DID have the ingenuity and intelligence to solve the test chamber puzzles, so whats to say she wouldn't recognize that a good was to survive a neurotoxin attack by hiding in what appears to be an airtight chamber. (the relaxation chamber)

Of course, somebody had to let her in there, but it could have been whoever brought her.

really there is no way for us to be certain, as Valve probably hasn't finished deciding of the entire story yet...


Chell is an android.
Androids do not have nerves.
Neurotoxins affect nerves.
Androids are not affected by neurotoxins.
Omni.

User avatar
psion
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:33 am UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby psion » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:28 am UTC

Except you can die in the finale, allegedly from neurotoxin.

Ralith The Third
Don't Ask About His Nephews
Posts: 782
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:21 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Ralith The Third » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:52 pm UTC

It's a passive agressive pathological liar.
It's not a neurotoxin :P
Omni.

User avatar
psion
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:33 am UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby psion » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:22 pm UTC

Then she was probably lying about the fire too. I bet it was far more comfortable than she made it sound.

Pseudoku
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:12 am UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Pseudoku » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:59 pm UTC

Glados has something of a liar's paradox to her, doesn't she?
After all, she flat out admits to "enhancing the truth", and her tone when dealing with androids rather than Chell becomes much more business-like, but all we know about Aperture Science's place in the half life world comes through her. (Not counting the website)
She's like someone who plays rock paper scissors and tells you what they'll choose. It doesn't make the game any easier or harder, it only psyches you out as you wonder whether or not they're lying.

Xaddak
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:28 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Xaddak » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:53 pm UTC

phillipsjk wrote:
  • You start by leaving a "relaxation pod". Looks more like a VR simulator to me.
  • Lack of falling damage. (probably makes the game playable)
  • Display shimmers in elevators. (Deliberate effect?)
  • You respawn when you die. I doubt cloning technology will ever be that quick.
  • The portals cannot cross the "fizzlers" (work-around for game-engine technical limitation)
  • Even after you "finish" the testing, you still respawn: even if you assume the position when requested.
  • Found a bug where the momentum of the object your are carrying is not conserved/consistent with your momentum. (Tried to take a wrench with me on a "fling")
  • Even after you "escape" you do not have a free-run of the plant. Instead, you follow a prescribed, convoluted path to a classic "boss fight."
  • Most the moving pistons appear to have no real function (to the building) except making your life difficult. I was reminded of the arbitrary barriers during the fight scene of Star Wars Episode 1.
  • I tried following GLaDOS's suggestion of putting the part back or tucking it in the corner. Neither actions had any effect.
  • The whole plant being a simulation explains the directions painted on the walls. Meta: if you think about it, it actually is a simulation
  • After making your way "up" for a while in an attempt to escape, the catwalks still stretch up as far as the "eye" can see (at least 300m). "Decorative" catwalks end in walls, not doors. See also huge cavern GLaDOS's chamber is stored in. Seems like a lot of digging to make the facility "look cool".
  • After the boss fight, objects in the room start to fly away and the screen fades to white.


  • Looks like a relaxation pod to me.
  • If you put two portals on walls that are at a 90 degree angle, you can see yourself, and Chell has metal spring-feet things.
  • I've never noticed that. The lights flicker in the elevators, sometimes...
  • No... you reload from autosave, not respawn.
  • Portals are a, as we know it, impossible technology, so why do you need additional suspension of disbelief to believe that something may be able to stop them (or that they should follow physics as we know it, for that matter)?
  • You STILL load from saves.
  • Name a game without bugs. That one probably just never occurred to anybody to try during testing.
  • Yeah, it's almost like you're following the trail of somebody else who escaped and came before you. But then, there's no other evidence in the game to support that theory. Noooope.
  • ...did you really, honestly, expect it to? Seriously? The pathological liar murderous crazy AI sarcastically told you to do something, and you were SURPRISED when it didn't work?
  • I think it mentions in the game somewhere that the chambers are supposed to be reconfigurable on the fly, hence the walls you occasionally find that are pushed out. Hey, wait - those are mounted on pistons, too! Design me an AI-controlled building that can reassemble itself via piston-mounted walls, or prove it is impossible, THEN you can complain about this one.
  • Or somebody else escaped. You did, so clearly it is possible to do so.
  • Isn't Apeture Science known for overengineering things? Or was that Black Mesa? I forget. Regardless, lots of things in the HL2 universe are overwhelmingly massive, far more than is realistically possible (Combine towers).
  • Yes? The pathological liar murderous crazy AI that controls the entire facility (including a whole bunch of probably quite-unstable portal technology, and knowing Apeture's apparent tendency to overengineer things, an antimatter reactor or five {or maybe something even more exotic}) gets blown up after you strip away her core components one by one, and you're surprised when the facility falls apart in an overdone explosion sequence? Why?

Sorry, but your "strong evidence" just seemed like a really, really silly list that didn't have much substance to it.
Are you on this forum? Do you play EVE? Then join the xkcd channel! In your chat window, click on the speech bubble in the upper right corner. In the window that opens, type in xkcd and hit join.

-X

User avatar
Tommy2995
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:00 am UTC
Location: Pallet Town.

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Tommy2995 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:05 pm UTC

Ati wrote:
niteice wrote:
Aperture probably evacuated immediately before the game begins - note the still-running presentations in meeting rooms and the general askew nature of the office areas. It can't have been too long before, considering that everything is still functioning and clean. At any rate, Chell was left in the cryogenic chamber without anybody realizing it. GLaDOS probably jumped on the opportunity to put Chell through the same procedure, but now with nobody to help direct the test (see: Aperture Science Emergency Red Phone) away from her natural desires.




I don't like this theory for two reasons:

Number one, it completely screws with my theory of multiple versions of Cell. Secondly, it doesn't make sense, due to quotes from GLaDOS to the effect of 'its been a long time since the last time you went outside'. Likewise, though the test chambers are clean (and what could get them dirty?) the facility always struck me as one that had been deserted for a long time. There is a timeless quality about the enrichment center, and judging by the areas you explore after test chamber 19, the non test chambers are in a bad state of disrepair. Also, whoever was there before you (disregarding the question of whether the rat man is actually a former version of Chell) lived for weeks or months inside the test chambers (Which, presumably, humans, especially humans as driven as the aperture science employees, would not allow). This implies that GLaDOS had been on her own for a very long time by the time she revived you.



There are also drawings of jellyfish on the walls and coffee stains on some of the tables. I think that perhaps people were breaking in after everybody had left.
I am Dave! Yognaught and I have the balls!

User avatar
Internetmeme
Posts: 1405
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:16 pm UTC
Location: South Carolina, USA

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Internetmeme » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:48 pm UTC

Wouldn't it be a better thing to take it at face value until the next portal game comes out to possibly tie it into the HL universe? Also, didn't Valve announce that HL2:Episode 3 (or HL3) was the last HL game, but not the last in the HL universe?
Spoiler:

User avatar
headprogrammingczar
Posts: 3072
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:28 pm UTC
Location: Beaming you up

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby headprogrammingczar » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:05 pm UTC

They said it would be the last episode. They were mum as to the possibility of HL3.
<quintopia> You're not crazy. you're the goddamn headprogrammingspock!
<Weeks> You're the goddamn headprogrammingspock!
<Cheese> I love you

Xaddak
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:28 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Xaddak » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:58 pm UTC

Internetmeme wrote:Wouldn't it be a better thing to take it at face value until the next portal game comes out to possibly tie it into the HL universe?


That's what I thought. These all sound like typical conspiracy theories to me.
Are you on this forum? Do you play EVE? Then join the xkcd channel! In your chat window, click on the speech bubble in the upper right corner. In the window that opens, type in xkcd and hit join.

-X

LTK
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 8:46 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby LTK » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:54 pm UTC

On the topic of Chell being an android: Before entering the test chamber with turrets, GLaDOS states this test chamber was designed for military androids and apologizes for no one having changed it yet, presumably because they all evacuated the facility. The following comments on Android Hell are obviously part of the communication protocol that comes with activating the test chamber. Ergo, what she says in the test chamber is for the ears of military androids.

IIAOPSW
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:52 am UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby IIAOPSW » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:54 pm UTC

i would like to put forward my theories



Chell is exactly who GLaDOS says she is-A test subject. she isn't the first. notice the clipboards with the pass/fail stamps. possibly from previous tests. the opening prompt says "again" because she has probably been welcomed by several orientation videos. there are no clones.

there ARE machines that keep everything clean-we do see them from time to time. like in the one level where the mechanical arms drop off turrets right in front of you! or at the end a mechanical arm "blows out" the candle on the cake. however, when the center was designed, only certain area's was meant to be self maintained (by GLaDOS). the area's in disrepair are the area's that those mechanical arms weren't designed to access. the center was not evacuated recently.

there are 2 parts to GLaDOS-It says so right in her name. Genetic life form AND Disk Operating System. she might be a computer with a person built in (possibly Cave Johnson which would explain why GLaDOS is naturally insane).

GLaDOS never worked as intended-when people occupied the enrichment center, all the tests were probably safe. the toxic, electrified water was probably just regular water. left to her own devices, GLaDOS is the perfect scientist without morals. and some extension of her is attached to virtually everything in the enrichment center. as rat man says "shes watching you"

The cake is a code-for those of you who do programming, have you ever made your program just print out certain variables instead of running the debugger? sort of as a way to analyze it without the thing running at "debugging speed". well my theory on the cake is that its a coded signal, something that her programmer put in so he could tell whats happening with her code without interrupting the test with error messages. perhaps if she was working as intended, the motivation would be doughnuts. or maybe the pre-programmed part of GLaDOS mentions cake frequently as a way to tell how much of what she says is original thought (and thus how "alive" she is).

certain portal storms are not coincidence-the ending sequence and the Borealis disappearance are too good to be true. im thinking "giant portal device" to which the ashpd is a scaled version.

Aperture science has several off sites-going to their website you find one facility that is still "occupied" but under lock down. GLaDOS is probably still alive by means of backup systems in these facilities.

The GLaDOS you fight isn't actually GLaDOS at all-how many computers do you know of have spinning disks, mechanical arms, spheres and a near by incinerator. here is my theory on this, the GLaDOS you fought was originally part of the test and isn't a computer at all. its just another extension of the real GLaDOS like the cameras and doors and turrets and everything else in the enrichment center.

the part after tc-19 was still part of the test-the enrichment center, like GLaDOS, was never completed. they had planned to build more of it but only built up to tc-19 before going into lock down or evacuating or something. thats why it was so easy to escape the fire (it wasnt supposed to be a fire pit in the first place). thats also why the "back areas" worked so well as puzzles. they were meant to be additional test chambers that weren't finished, eventually leading to the GLaDOS test chamber for ASHPD combat training. The real GLaDOS uses this fact to play with you, make you think that your escaping and out of her control when really she sees you the entire time. The real GLaDOS is probably a defenseless server farm in a basement that can eaisly be unplugged once you find her.
-President of the peoples republik of the internet.

screw your coffee, i download my java!

LTK
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 8:46 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby LTK » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:52 am UTC

I recently replayed Portal and took a closer look at some things.

The clipboards mentioned have either a testing sheet or a damage warning label sheet. The latter lies in your room when you wake up. The former lies in one of the observation areas you find when you escape. These are not human results, though: There is a diagram of the skeleton of a chicken in a corner. They were probably using chickens to observe the effect of travelling through portals in organic beings.

There is more to find in the observation areas: When you look closely at the computer screens with scrolling code, you can make out distorted words that seem to be ingredients. A lot of the ingredients seem to be fish-shaped. In one observation area there is also a vague drawing on the wall of a jellyfish. It looks distinctly like a child's drawing.

In the early break-out, you can see a room with a slideshow running about Aperture competing with Black Mesa. Several things can be concluded from this slideshow:

It shows a graph of projects that were requested and awarded to Aperture Science and Black Mesa respectively. Aperture Science requested a lot of projects, and was awarded only a few. Black Mesa requested a small number of projects, and they were all awarded to them.

Another slide shows Black Mesa's project history: Only a few percent of their projects were competed over with other companies, while the overwhelming majority of projects (88%) were exclusive to them, and they also receive large sums of government funding. Aperture Science's project history is more balanced, but has very little government support. From these two slides can be concluded that someone from up high, presumably the G-Man, was guiding the progress of Black Mesa, probably in preparation of the Black Mesa incident.

But that's beside the point, and there are other slides. One of the projects Aperture Science is competing over with Black Mesa is a device that inhibits the forming of ice in an unmentioned process. This could be portal technology, as they've both developed this. The slide also states that Black Mesa's device for inhibiting icing is expensive and labour-intensive, given the limited skillset of Black Mesa employees. Aperture Science's device, however, not only inhibits icing, but is also a fully functioning Disk Operating System and 'arguably alive'. This is GLaDOS, naturally.

The funny thing is that, when you look at Aperture Science in particular, they seem to have absolutely no clue as to what they're doing. Take, for example, the website aperturescience.com, login: cjohnson and password: tier3. If you read the company history on that site, you find out that the portal technology started in development as shower curtains. They develop portal technology from shower curtains, I tell you! And for inhibiting icing they create a crazy artificial intelligence! What madmen are doing these things?! *pulls hair*

User avatar
LE4dGOLEM
is unique......wait, no!!!!
Posts: 5972
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:10 pm UTC
Location: :uoıʇɐɔol

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:58 pm UTC

icing -> cake
Image Une See Fights - crayon super-ish hero webcomic!
doogly wrote:It would just be much better if it were not shitty.

User avatar
Von Haus
Posts: 757
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:15 pm UTC
Location: Probably somewhere he shouldn't be...

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Von Haus » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:59 pm UTC

I personally favour the idea that the chamers were flooded with Neurotoxin during the bring your daughter to work day. All of the adults and staff were killed but the children were presumably in relaxation chambers at the time, or by some other way kept safe be GLaDOS in order to ensure a supply of test subjects once the scientists who were hampering her progress and preventing her doing some of the tests she deemed neccessary in order to acheive her goal, optimisation of the ASHPD.
This would support: Chell not being a full time employee, she was the daughter of one instead. Previous people going through the chambers, the other girls some of whom made it farther than others. The constant cake references, children like cake, cake was probably planned for the girls at the end of Bring Your Daughter to Work Day, so GLaDOS still see's this as the ideal reward to offer in order to entice the girls to continue. This would also justify the existence of the cake at the end, there was a cake made for the Daughter to Work Day it's just yet to be eaten.
If we are working on the basis that the final boss is NOT GLaDOS, and there is little reason why it would be. (She's more likely to be fully integrated into the entire system. Would destroying three orbs really cause the rest of the machine to break apart? They weren't even connected when destroyed so GLaDOS can function without them anyway. She's already shown she can drop the Cores at will, the missiles cause no other damage to the hanging "body" where they impact no where near the orbs, so more than likely she's just dropping them of her own accord to mimic you actually having some effect.) Then it follows that the Morality Core was just another arbitary sphere that was on the final test boss. She can still fill the chamber with deadly Neurotoxin whenever she wants she just doesn't until the end. As for the disposal of the bodies. They are in a building able to reorganise it's internal structure at will and has many handy incinerators, no other people are required to enter the chamber since the gassing to clean them away.
Now I doubt the areas after chamer 19 were originally parts of the test chamber, but GLaDOS would still have full schematics of them, and control over all moving parts so it is quite possible that she simply extended the test chambers in to the now empty background workings of the facility.

One thing i've never been sure of at one point she says something to the effect of "at the end of the test you will be m------ and then there will be cake." That's not quite the right wording but probably enough for someone to figure out what i'm refering to, it's in one of the earlier test chambers. What I don't know is if she says "missed" or "minced".
A bee sees Dee 'effigy' Hitch, I 'Jay' kill, amen OP, queue arresty UV double, you ex-wizard!

LTK
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 8:46 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby LTK » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:06 pm UTC

Von Haus wrote:One thing i've never been sure of at one point she says something to the effect of "at the end of the test you will be m------ and then there will be cake." That's not quite the right wording but probably enough for someone to figure out what i'm refering to, it's in one of the earlier test chambers. What I don't know is if she says "missed" or "minced".


You've got two quotes mixed up. There is "As part of a required test protocol we can no longer lie to you. When the testing is over, you will be... missed." You can read it in the subtitles. There is also "When the testing is over, you will be baked, and then there will be cake." which GLaDOS says very clearly, but the subtitles say "You will be baked [garbled] cake."

LE4dGOLEM wrote:icing -> cake


Heh, I missed that one. I think that, in the slideshow, the word 'icing' is used once (mistakenly) when they mean 'the forming of ice'. I'll go back to that little office so that I can copy it accurately.
Last edited by LTK on Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:07 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Amnesiasoft
Posts: 2573
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 4:28 am UTC
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby Amnesiasoft » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:06 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure it was "you will be baked"

EDIT: Stop ninjaing me. I can't take the blood loss to shuriken wounds anymore.

LTK
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 8:46 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby LTK » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:26 pm UTC

'scuse me. :P

Here, I'm going to make some screenshots of the slideshow and other stuff. This one shows the jellyfish drawing, and Chell's evaluation sheet, identifiable by #234.

In the office where the slideshow is running I found two clipboards: One is Chell's evaluation, the other is information on Black Mesa's Mark V Hazardous Enviroment Suit. I also have slides one, two, three, and four.

It looks like these are Department of Defense (DoD) contracts. Slides two and three tell us that Black Mesa is the government's pet. Slide four is interesting: They compete for development of a Fuel System Icing Inhibitor. They could have used 'icing' on purpose, yes...
Last edited by LTK on Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:47 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
pseudoidiot
Sexy Beard Man
Posts: 5101
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:30 pm UTC
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby pseudoidiot » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:39 pm UTC

I like that under the jellyfish drawing it says "nice little jellyfish".
Derailed : Gaming Outside the Box.
SecondTalon wrote:*swoons* I love you, all powerful pseudoidiot!
ShootTheChicken wrote:I can't stop thinking about pseudoidiot's penis.

LTK
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 8:46 pm UTC

Re: Portal Secrets and Storylines? - ***spoiler warning***

Postby LTK » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:54 pm UTC

Yeah, it's cute. :) I guess some girl from the Aperture Science Bring Your Daughter To Work Day drew it there.

I found another clipboard with the schematics for Chell's lower leg enhancement. It seems to be a complete modification of the knee joint. Here it is.

nowfocus
Posts: 948
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:34 am UTC

Re: Portal + HalfLife

Postby nowfocus » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:25 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:At least this one would be mute too.


Interesting you mention that...
Jahoclave wrote:Besides if you observe romance, you change the outcome. Especially if you put his/her friend Catherine in a box.

Menacing Spike wrote:Was it the copper hammer or the children part that caused censoring?

User avatar
EdgarJPublius
Official Propagandi.... Nifty Poster Guy
Posts: 3726
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:56 am UTC
Location: where the wind takes me

Re: Portal! WILD MASS GUESSING AND THEORIZING AND BULLSHIT!

Postby EdgarJPublius » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Portal Update Released
Portal Update Released
March 1, 2010, 2:33 pm - Valve - Product Update

Updates to Portal have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted.

Portal

* Changed radio transmission frequency to comply with federal and state spectrum management regulations


WHAT DOES IT MEAN???
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

-still unaware of the origin and meaning of his own user-title

User avatar
Amalith
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:39 am UTC

Re: Portal! WILD MASS GUESSING AND THEORIZING AND BULLSHIT!

Postby Amalith » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:30 am UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:Portal Update Released
Portal Update Released
March 1, 2010, 2:33 pm - Valve - Product Update

Updates to Portal have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted.

Portal

* Changed radio transmission frequency to comply with federal and state spectrum management regulations


WHAT DOES IT MEAN???


It also comes with an achievement transmission recieved with a picture of a radio. The steam forums already have it solved, so I could tell you, but incase you don't want me to, then don't click the spoiler.

Spoiler:
The radios are now broadcasting message(s?) ingame (in morse code) that (the first one? the only one?) decyphers to:

"interior transmission active
external data line active
message digest active"

GladOS is booting back up. Yay Portal 2 Viral advertising!


I haven't actually gone ingame to see for myself what's going on though.


Return to “Gaming”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests