Team Fortress 2

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Jorpho » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:03 pm UTC

LuNatic wrote:
Jorpho wrote:I really ought to give this another try sometime. But how do you find a good server? The only ones my friends regularly play on is full of experienced players who know all the tricks, or so it seems. (That's why they disabled cool-looking maps like Egypt.)
Egypt is pretty unbalanced. First stage favours the defenders to the point where a prepared and coordinated team of 12 should be able to hold it indefinitely, even against triple/quad uber pushes. The rest of the map is a walkover for the attackers. Also, it's really easy to get lost in. As for good servers - look for servers provided by ISPs, they tend to run vanilla settings and map rotations.
Well, I wouldn't mind if I never saw 2fort again. :P

I also suspect it's difficult to avoid heavily-experienced players and total jerks at the same time, no? (My TF2 experience has been pleasantly jerk-free most of the time.)

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:43 pm UTC

Rakysh wrote:All I know is that, as a spy, I fear smg snipers with the sound turned right up the most. The majority of Jarate snipers will lose in a one on one to a spy with the revolver if they hear me, but smg snipers tend to beat me. Personally I'm currently loving the various iterations of Orange_3x maps. They are the bomb, often have FaN banned and are just nicer people.

Why is it that people detest the FaN so? I'm puzzled.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Wyvern » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:04 am UTC

Phen wrote:
Rakysh wrote:All I know is that, as a spy, I fear smg snipers with the sound turned right up the most. The majority of Jarate snipers will lose in a one on one to a spy with the revolver if they hear me, but smg snipers tend to beat me. Personally I'm currently loving the various iterations of Orange_3x maps. They are the bomb, often have FaN banned and are just nicer people.

Why is it that people detest the FaN so? I'm puzzled.


I'm pretty puzzled too....... I mean It is awesome, but it's not that awesome.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Kag » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:26 am UTC

FaN is bad if you have to shoot more than twice, or can't line up the second shot in under a third of a second.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Wyvern » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:50 am UTC

Kag wrote:FaN is bad if you have to shoot more than twice, or can't line up the second shot in under a third of a second.


I do find it a little bit harder to kill people with, since it is less forgiving than the scattergun, but it still kills well enough, and I find it has some extra practical values too, you can use the knockback to give yourself a third jump of sorts, and it's also useful for pushing people off of platforms and the like. (It's why I don't use the Backburner, the Airblast is just way too practical to give up)

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby LuNatic » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:41 am UTC

Wyvern wrote:
Phen wrote:
Rakysh wrote:All I know is that, as a spy, I fear smg snipers with the sound turned right up the most. The majority of Jarate snipers will lose in a one on one to a spy with the revolver if they hear me, but smg snipers tend to beat me. Personally I'm currently loving the various iterations of Orange_3x maps. They are the bomb, often have FaN banned and are just nicer people.

Why is it that people detest the FaN so? I'm puzzled.


I'm pretty puzzled too....... I mean It is awesome, but it's not that awesome.


Well, there's the dodgy knockback, which will knock a player straight up from any direction of fire and almost any range, while also halting any horizontal movement, effectively freezing its victim for roughly half a second per hit. Then there's the fact that an accurate 1-2 burst will do 170-210dmg(non-crit) in around a quarter second, effectively insta-killing anything short of a buffed soldier. Also, the third jump means only other FaN scouts have a keeping up with them when they have the intel. But the first two are why people hate it so much. You might think that a scattergun scout has the advantage over a FaN scout 1v1 because of quicker/less reloads, but if I tag you with the FaN on my first shot, even for as little as 15 damage, the bounce will give me a clean second shot that you will be very unlikely to survive.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Rakysh » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:42 pm UTC

That, really. Really good scouts can drop out of the sky, nail you with both bursts and the disappear. Even if you have a few hp remaining, one bat swing or a few pistol shots will take you out. It's not the knockback so much as the DPS for that quarter second; it's horrendous. I mean, heavies can do more, but if you get that close to a heavy you deserve it, imo (sucks to be a pyro). Scouts are too mobile to have that kind of firepower.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Numzane » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:26 pm UTC

Rakysh wrote:I mean, heavies can do more, but if you get that close to a heavy you deserve it, imo (sucks to be a pyro).
Flare gun 8)
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Wyvern » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:14 am UTC

Numzane wrote:
Rakysh wrote:I mean, heavies can do more, but if you get that close to a heavy you deserve it, imo (sucks to be a pyro).
Flare gun 8)


Not quite as deadly as the shotgun, but oh so much more annoying and disruptive.

I love it. <3

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Kag » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:27 am UTC

Rakysh wrote:That, really. Really good scouts can drop out of the sky, nail you with both bursts and the disappear. Even if you have a few hp remaining, one bat swing or a few pistol shots will take you out. It's not the knockback so much as the DPS for that quarter second; it's horrendous. I mean, heavies can do more, but if you get that close to a heavy you deserve it, imo (sucks to be a pyro). Scouts are too mobile to have that kind of firepower.


DPS is only a meaningful calculation for sustained damage, which the scattergun is obviously far better at.


The juggle is what makes the FaN the obvious choice for single opponents. Unfortunately, it completely fails to perform in every other situation.

In terms of burst damage, the two are virtually identical. FaN gets the second shot off 1/3 of a second faster, which doesn't seem as valuable as being able to meaningfully engage more than one enemy simultaneously.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Rakysh » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:58 am UTC

So the scout dies on the second guy, providing you're standing next to each other, but the first one will die, often with no warning.

It could easily be that the map these servers run isn't really balanced. Banning the FaN seems fair enough to me.

Flare gun: Meh. I never got good enough with it to prefer it to the shotgun.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:09 am UTC

I used to prefer the flare gun in arena because it could do heaps of damage, but I use the shotgun continually now, flare gun has always been very unreliable in the medium range area.

And yeah, the fan is stupid and annoying because it's the only instant-damage weapon that includes serious knockback in its effect... and you don't get time to save yourself in any way. It's not overpowered so much as infuriating (and usually making your game infuriating is a bad idea).
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:45 am UTC

I don't know, maybe I just havn't been up against very skilled scouts then. I don't really have a problem with it.
For the moment I use the flaregun as well, but the good ol' shotty is still excellent for moving down fleeing targets outside the flamethrower range.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Numzane » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:37 pm UTC

The only time I really miss the shotty is when someone goes underwater, because then I have nothing. I usually have flamethrower/flare/crit axe; the idea being to set them on fire and then hit them with the axe. The flare gun is really fun, and actually pretty decent if you can consistently hit people two or three times in a row, since it minicrits if they're already on fire. Also, it gives me something to do when it's a bad idea to run in for a kill.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Okita » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:16 am UTC

Numzane wrote:The only time I really miss the shotty is when someone goes underwater, because then I have nothing. I usually have flamethrower/flare/crit axe; the idea being to set them on fire and then hit them with the axe. The flare gun is really fun, and actually pretty decent if you can consistently hit people two or three times in a row, since it minicrits if they're already on fire. Also, it gives me something to do when it's a bad idea to run in for a kill.


Eh, I used to use the flare gun all the time but switched to the shotgun once I got killed one too many times in pyro v. pyro battles.

Generally, if it's Arena where heals are hard to come by and there's no respawning, setting your opponent on fire works really well. Otherwise, chances are if you set someone on fire, they'll just escape and heal up (because you're flaring from at least medium range) or they'll push forward (in which case, why not just let them die due to flamethrower?).

I did find that flares are pretty good at distracting snipers. They don't have enough hp but are stationary enough to hit so either you've forced them out of scope or you've sent them running back to a healthpack.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:10 am UTC

Yeah, but firing the shotgun at a long range sniper and dodging generally keeps you alive anyway... probably not as annoying to the sniper because it doesn't last as long, but you're not in any extra danger. Plus good snipers will dodge flares and probably be seated right near a health pack anyway.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Rakysh » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:16 am UTC

Toeofdoom wrote:Yeah, but firing the shotgun at a long range sniper and dodging generally keeps you alive anyway...

hehehe... you need to meet some better snipers :P

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:59 am UTC

Well, that's assuming you don't have to stay out in the open too long, you know where they are and you have the time to shoot at them... not many snipers I meet can hit that sort of target consistently while being hit by the shotgun. Otherwise, the flare gun won't save you anyway and a good sniper will dodge, as I said.

Plus I said alive, not unharmed.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Rakysh » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:19 am UTC

hehe.. I spose I've been playing a fair few custom maps recently, which are quite sniper-biased, but I know a sniper who WILL headshot a scout within half a second of scope time 9 times out of 10. They are not fun to play against.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby lu6cifer » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:36 pm UTC

What are the most annoying classes? My list goes like this:

1. Spy
2. Pyro
3. Sniper
4. Scout
5. Engie/Sentries
6. Demo
7. Soldier
8. Heavy
9. Medic

Though Soldier, Heavy and Medic are never really 'annoying' for me.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby psion » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:02 pm UTC

I'm only really annoyed by good demos. With a medic they're unstoppable killing machines that can kill without even coming into anyone's line of sight. Every other class feels somewhat 'rock/paper/scissors'-like, but a good demo doesn't really have any counter but sheer force.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Rakysh » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:03 pm UTC

Snipers?

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EdgarJPublius » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:53 pm UTC

a demo watching his mine-field isn't watching his back and should soon find a knife there.

Also, scouts can usually get close enough to a demo that their lack of close-range weapons becomes a serious problem
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Cynical Idealist » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:04 pm UTC

lu6cifer wrote:What are the most annoying classes?


1. Spy
2. Spy
3. Spy
4. Sniper
4. Demo (tied with Sniper)
6. Medic (with medigun...hate ubers)
7. Pyro or Heavy (with Medic)

By the way, I play engi a lot. And sniper.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Box Boy » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:08 pm UTC

1) Engineer
2) Sniper
3) Spy
4) Pyro
5) Demo
6) Medic
7) Heavy
8) Soldier
9) Scout

Scouts die really fast, spys are easy to find, I play pyro a lot so other ones are difficult to kill, engineers force me to swap ckasses a lot and are ridiculosly good if they are even mildly competent and I just plain ol' hate snipers.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Numzane » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:03 pm UTC

I usually find snipers and spies to be the most annoying, for the insta-kill. Also backburner pyros for the near-instakill.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby aion7 » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:33 am UTC

It depends on what class I'm playing. Spy, sniper, and engie are generally near the top though.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Wyvern » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:07 am UTC

Well, Here's my Most annoying List:

1. Demoman
2. Scout
3. Sniper
4. Engineer
5. Spy
6. Pyro
7. Heavy
8. Soldier
9. Medic

I mostly Play Heavy and Medic. You'd think that Spy would be up there, but no, I'm way too paranoid for that. (And if they're a really good Spy, then they have my respect. Good Spies Make a Very Entertaining Game.) Demoman is my top choice. (explained below) Scout is up there because, well, they're damn annoying. You'd have to be brain dead to not know that Scout > Medic. And when I'm playing as Heavy, They really can't do much, (unless perhaps you're alone and they have the sandman) but they still love to pop out, blast you a few times, then zip off around a corner to some other area and RRAAAGGGHHH I can't Catch Those Speedy Little F&#%@%! RAAAGGGEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

psion wrote:I'm only really annoyed by good demos. With a medic they're unstoppable killing machines that can kill without even coming into anyone's line of sight. Every other class feels somewhat 'rock/paper/scissors'-like, but a good demo doesn't really have any counter but sheer force.


Ever play against a good demoman backed by two medics rotating their Kritzkreig Ubercharges? All he has to do is spam stickymines at any major chokepoint. Get to close to even one of them, and you're dead. (especially when you're slow and can't run!)

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby lu6cifer » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:12 am UTC

huh. Would've thought pyro would be higher up on people's lists.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby LuNatic » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:33 am UTC

Nah, pyros are really predictable, making them easy to kill.

Most annoying classes:

1. Friendly snipers (Block/push the bloody cart you morons!)
2. Enemy snipers
3. FaN Scouts (Kritz at 90%, kritz at 95%, alright here we.. WTF how am I dead?)
4. Soldiers (try our new improved 'Point and Crit' action)
5. Demoman (Wtf? I didn't see any stickies)
6. Demoman (Wtf, that sticky was miles away when it detonated)
7. Demoman (Oh me yarm i had full health, how can a non crit weapon do that much damage in one shot?)
8. Engineers
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Wyvern » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:47 pm UTC

LuNatic wrote:1. Friendly snipers (Block/push the bloody cart you morons!)


This. It is oh so annoying.

If only people would actually listen to the Heavy when he screams "STAND NEXT TO LITTLE CART!"

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Josephine » Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:12 am UTC

True. Snipers picking off the cart people, on the other hand, are very useful.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby thecommabandit » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:39 am UTC

I have a problem with people who insist on going Sniper even when they're no good. This is partially because I'm sometimes that guy. But I don't think I find any one class annoying. I only tend to get annoyed when I was killed cheaply. Don't ask me what a cheap kill is though, it's probably highly situational.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Upsilon » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:05 pm UTC

Critical rockets are always a cheap kill.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Box Boy » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:36 pm UTC

Upsilon wrote:Critical rockets are always sometimes a cheap kill.

Have you ever seen a Heavy or Pyro during a crit period?Heck, Demoman's critical stickies are able to kill nearly anyone in one shot.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:41 am UTC

I've seen a pyro with crits... everyone backs away, no-one dies, crits did nothing. It sometimes works, but it's not on the same level as rockets or stickies.

Cheap kill list:
Stickys, often.
Engineers that continually turn around for completely unrelated reasons just as you click "backstab" (grrrr)
Spawn camps that weren't earned (ie if you go charging ahead stupidly and don't pay attention to anyone behind you, as a team).
Scouts that apparently exist just to piss off snipers.


Also I'd like to note that a sniper on the cart is the most vulnerable of all classes there, whereas a spy can cloak, scout can piss off and engi wasn't doing shit anyway (if they were on the cart, their sentry was complete or obsolete), a sniper has no "get-away" and is usually slower than those classes because they're zoomed in or holding an arrow back. These apply slightly less for an SMG sniper, but otherwise they're pretty likely to end up dead.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby folkhero » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:24 am UTC

and that's why having a bunch of snipers on offense on a cart push map is so annoying.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby KrazyerKate » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:36 pm UTC

Toeofdoom wrote:Scouts that apparently exist just to piss off snipers.


whenever I need to blow off some steam I go to a 24/7 2fort server, jump across the bridge to the enemy battlements, and harass the snipers. I also rocketjump onto the battlements for the same reason. I'd apologize, but I think snipers deserve it.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby headprogrammingczar » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:33 pm UTC

Toeofdoom wrote:I've seen a pyro with crits... everyone backs away, no-one dies, crits did nothing. It sometimes works, but it's not on the same level as rockets or stickies.

Generally, a crit pyro is only useful if the other team is clustered together and doesn't see you coming, and in that case, why not just use the backburner?
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Rakysh » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:17 pm UTC

Because you will get rocketed in the face. IN THE FACE.


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