Team Fortress 2

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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The Scyphozoa
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:24 pm UTC

Wawawait... which slot do the Booties take again? The wiki says it's the sticky slot, but it hasn't fully updated everything from the Uber update anyway.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:39 pm UTC

The wiki looks like it says the grenade launcher slot to me... which happens to be correct. Essentially you can use booties + shield + some melee weapon and have zero demolition ability whatsoever.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:44 pm UTC

Really? This is what I see...
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3rdtry wrote:If there ever is another World War, I hope they at least have the decency to call it "World War 2: Episode One"

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:48 pm UTC

Perhaps a different wiki? This is the official wiki: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Demoman
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:07 pm UTC

The boots are grenade launcher slot.

The stats on the booties wouldn't make much sense if they replaced your ability to charge :P

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:45 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:The boots are grenade launcher slot.

The stats on the booties wouldn't make much sense if they replaced your ability to charge :P

Well, maybe the "ability to charge" is implied, and that it has greater turning control while charging than the shields, but you lose the fire and explosion resistance. :?
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3rdtry wrote:If there ever is another World War, I hope they at least have the decency to call it "World War 2: Episode One"

doogly wrote:murder is a subset of being mean

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Beardhammer » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:56 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:I love finding demomen that use the booties and shield, I can just airblast them around as pyro and play with them. Then when I'm tired of that I'll just axtinguish them. I don't think I've run into a booties demoknight that was actually a threat, since I know they can't shoot at me.

Its odd, I don't feel useless when I destroy the other team using demoknight. Being able to one-shot most classes, having increased explosion & fire resistance, and still fire demo-spam grenades seems pretty useful. Oh, but wait, if you can't play demo w/o stickybombs you're doing it wrong apparently.


Considering stickies are the major reason for playing Demoman instead of, say, Soldier? Yeah, it really is doing it wrong.

Stickies are incredibly versatile. You can use them to stickyjump, they do more damage than pills, they're more accurate than pills, and you can use them to deny access points for enemies. It's awful hard for that scout to flank and take shots at your Medic if you have stickies in place to blow him apart. Demomen with stickies are also the best class for wrecking engi nests, even multiple engies. You can place stickies much faster than they can destroy them, and even with a wrangler it only takes a few stickies to destroy everything, including the engineer if he's anywhere nearby. Sollies can't do that, Pyros can't do that, and Demoknights DEFINITELY can't do that. An enemy Pyro nearby will make things difficult, but you can still fire faster than he can airblast. Moreover, that same Pyro will completely, totally neutralize the Demoknight while he can't do nearly the same to a regular Demoman. Demoknights are also incapable of handling groups of enemies at a time, and Demoknight will do nothing but die horribly if there's an alert Pyro around to simply airblast him back every time he tries to get close.

As for one-shotting low HP classes? Hey, cool, other classes can do that too, except they can do it better. Snipers can kill anything from 150 health and below with a charged bodyshot, and well over that with a charged headshot. And they can do it from range. Spies can instantly kill ANY class, regardless of health, with a backstab, and they can also sap buildings while doing so. If they're good at hiding among the enemy team, they can also provide excellent scouting information while waiting for an opportune moment. A Spy can consistently kill a Medic with an uber ready while a Demoknight is almost guaranteed to be unable to kill the Medic before the Medic pops his uber - hell, even an Ullapool Demoman has a better chance than a Demoknight, and even then the charge is pretty damn obvious with the noise it makes.

Demoknight is a "10th class" purely for people that don't know how to play and would rather mash charge and autoswing a melee weapon instead of learn a skill that's useful and applicable to competitive play.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:02 pm UTC

You used charged bodyshot as an example, I am dissapoint.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:06 pm UTC

Beardhammer wrote:Demoknight is a "10th class" purely for people that don't know how to play and would rather mash charge and autoswing a melee weapon instead of learn a skill that's useful and applicable to competitive play.

I would think that, by the time you find/unlock/craft a shield and a sword, you'd have learned how to play the game or quit trying.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Torvaun » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:33 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:
Beardhammer wrote:Demoknight is a "10th class" purely for people that don't know how to play and would rather mash charge and autoswing a melee weapon instead of learn a skill that's useful and applicable to competitive play.

I would think that, by the time you find/unlock/craft a shield and a sword, you'd have learned how to play the game or quit trying.

What about by the time you've bought them at the Mann store?
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vaniver » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:35 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:I would think that, by the time you find/unlock/craft a shield and a sword, you'd have learned how to play the game or quit trying.
Whatever gives you that impression? Remember the system rewards casual players who only log in once a week.
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:47 pm UTC

Has anyone made any alternate accounts to idly build up items? I considered using my woman's account to download the f2p and do that, but I haven't looked into whether there are restrictions on it or not.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vaniver » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:56 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:Has anyone made any alternate accounts to idly build up items? I considered using my woman's account to download the f2p and do that, but I haven't looked into whether there are restrictions on it or not.
Free accounts can only receive, not give, items.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:21 am UTC

Foiled again. :(

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Beardhammer » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:01 am UTC

broken_escalator wrote:You used charged bodyshot as an example, I am dissapoint.


A charged bodyshot will instantly kill any Engineer, Scout, Spy, Sniper, or Medic that isn't overhealed. You have a much greater chance of landing a bodyshot against someone than a headshot, especially since Medics and Scouts tend to move very fast. There's no reason to risk missing by attempting a headshot when an easier bodyshot will do the job. The only reason you'd want to use a headshot is you either haven't had time to charge, or they're overhealed.

Obviously you need headshots in every other case.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:35 am UTC

broken_escalator wrote:Foiled again. :(


You can buy any item in the Mann co store to gain full rights.

That includes the .49 cent sticky/rocket jumpers and .99 cent community map stamps that go to the community map makers.

I just bought a key since I already have all the stamps for maps I like.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Technical Ben » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:10 am UTC

broken_escalator wrote:Has anyone made any alternate accounts to idly build up items? I considered using my woman's account to download the f2p and do that, but I haven't looked into whether there are restrictions on it or not.

The only way to win is not to play Valves Game.
Just play as normal, and don't worry about what items you get. Weapons Cost £2.50, hats £12. Arguably, Weapons have a much higher demand (actually used for something), take more to design, and cost more in delivery than Hats do. Yet an artificial limited supply and demand system means the prices are swayed in Valves favour for maximum profit.

So basically, the "house" always wins.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vaniver » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:01 am UTC

Technical Ben wrote:So basically, the "house" always wins.
Ok, but you aren't playing for money; you're playing for enjoyable, which allows for positive-sum exchanges. The house and the player can both win, unlike gambling.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EmptySet » Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:16 pm UTC

Technical Ben wrote:The only way to win is not to play Valves Game.
Just play as normal, and don't worry about what items you get. Weapons Cost £2.50, hats £12. Arguably, Weapons have a much higher demand (actually used for something), take more to design, and cost more in delivery than Hats do. Yet an artificial limited supply and demand system means the prices are swayed in Valves favour for maximum profit.


On the other hand, if you lock all the cool guns away unless people pay through the nose for them, the customer base complains that you're only giving the full game experience (or, in bad cases, an "I WIN" button) to people who have more cash than they know what to do with. It's bad enough that the rich kids get all the fancy toys in real life. Nobody wants to play a game where they constantly get killed by some idiot who has a +46 Gatling Grenade Launcher because his parents are wealthy and indulgent. Having core gameplay items readily available while selling expensive cosmetic items is far preferable to the other way around.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Derek » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:09 pm UTC

Beardhammer wrote:A charged bodyshot will instantly kill any Engineer, Scout, Spy, Sniper, or Medic that isn't overhealed. You have a much greater chance of landing a bodyshot against someone than a headshot, especially since Medics and Scouts tend to move very fast. There's no reason to risk missing by attempting a headshot when an easier bodyshot will do the job. The only reason you'd want to use a headshot is you either haven't had time to charge, or they're overhealed.

Obviously you need headshots in every other case.

A fully charged shot also takes way too long to charge, meanwhile you're vulnerable to just about everybody. The only times you should go for a fully charged shot is against an overhealed Heavy or a Medic that you can't afford a second shot against. Everything else you're better off quickscoping. I think you can get close to three quickscope attempts in the time it takes to fully charge one shot.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby The Scyphozoa » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:50 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:
broken_escalator wrote:Foiled again. :(


You can buy any item in the Mann co store to gain full rights.

That includes the .49 cent sticky/rocket jumpers and .99 cent community map stamps that go to the community map makers.

I just bought a key since I already have all the stamps for maps I like.

That doesn't mean you can just send 49 cents and have trading rights. You have to "add funds", a minimum of $5. Today I bought $5 worth of cheap weapons (Force-a-Nature, BONK!, Brass Beast, Huntsman, Jarate, Backburner, and Axtinguisher, I believe).
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:17 pm UTC

I thought there was an option to only add as much money to your steam wallet as was needed for the transaction...
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby The Scyphozoa » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:32 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:I thought there was an option to only add as much money to your steam wallet as was needed for the transaction...

Nope. http://store.steampowered.com/steamaccount/addfunds
"Add 5 dollars (minimum fund level)."
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3rdtry wrote:If there ever is another World War, I hope they at least have the decency to call it "World War 2: Episode One"

doogly wrote:murder is a subset of being mean

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Kain » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:36 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:I thought there was an option to only add as much money to your steam wallet as was needed for the transaction...

Nope. http://store.steampowered.com/steamaccount/addfunds
"Add 5 dollars (minimum fund level)."


Which, as it turns out, is perfectly priced to buy 2 keys, but not 1 key and a number of those stamps to support the mapmakers.

Anyways, I started playing a couple days ago once I saw it was available free, liked it, and decided to buy something just to be able to trade should I ever want to. Anyways, originally planned on buying a stamp for the maps I liked at that point, but couldn't remember their names (still can't) after I had put the five dollars on the account. Anyways, my next drop was a supply crate (19, the demoman), and I bought a key, figuring I would get a weapon that would keep track of kills (which I consider kind of cool). Imagine then the irony that I would get a hat from it. A decent hat, mind you (the hustler's hallmark), but not something that keeps track of kills, which is more interesting to me than having the little character look a bit more like how I dressed back in high school.

Anyways, if I were interested in trading that hat away, what would be a reasonable exchange? I have no idea of the trade worth of any of the items right now, and certainly would not trade with anyone here (lest you decide to be a smidgeon untruthful with your answer :)), but am just curious as to how many (or how many fractions) of strange weapons a hat is considered to be worth.


(Edit, if there are any random letters in this post, well, my friend Catherine decided to walk over my keyboard and apparently hit page up and some other stuff, which I think I fixed, but who knows...)
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Derek » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:49 am UTC

Hats range from 1 refined (which imo is too low for any hat, I would rather craft it) to several several (5+) refined, depending on its rarity (~newness) and how much people like it. The average is probably around 2 refined, or slightly less. I can't tell you about that specific one though. I would tell you to go to tf2tp.com and search for what people are asking for that hat, but the search there is down right now. So instead just find a random trade server and ask for a price check, someone should be able to give you a ballpark. When you do try to sell it, be sure to haggle. It's more fun, and you can often get a better price for it ;)

For the price of a strange weapon, I've seen it very from 2 scraps for the bad ones (GRU and Pain Train) to over a refined for the good ones (rocket launcher, sticky launcher). However I expect that the prices of these will drop in the next few weeks, since they are easy to obtain from the new crates and people will be opening a lot of crates looking for them.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Kain » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:01 am UTC

Cool, thanks.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby mmmcannibalism » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:41 am UTC

Derek wrote:Hats range from 1 refined (which imo is too low for any hat, I would rather craft it) to several several (5+) refined, depending on its rarity (~newness) and how much people like it. The average is probably around 2 refined, or slightly less. I can't tell you about that specific one though. I would tell you to go to tf2tp.com and search for what people are asking for that hat, but the search there is down right now. So instead just find a random trade server and ask for a price check, someone should be able to give you a ballpark. When you do try to sell it, be sure to haggle. It's more fun, and you can often get a better price for it ;)

For the price of a strange weapon, I've seen it very from 2 scraps for the bad ones (GRU and Pain Train) to over a refined for the good ones (rocket launcher, sticky launcher). However I expect that the prices of these will drop in the next few weeks, since they are easy to obtain from the new crates and people will be opening a lot of crates looking for them.


Anyone find it odd that an item made from 3 refined is on average worth less then that?
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Derek » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:16 am UTC

So it makes perfect sense that a specific hat could be worth less than three refined, but as for why the average cost is less than that, I've wondered too, and I'm pretty sure the reason is crates. Crates cost a key (~2 refined) and a crate (~0) to open, and most of that value goes into the small chance of getting an unusual. So I figure the price of hats is lowered by people opening crates looking for unusuals and trading off the excess hats they don't want.

What I'm not sure of is how the strange weapons will affect the cost of crates, and how much strange weapons will ultimately cost. Clearly they add substantial new value to crates, but I'm not sure how that value is going to be distributed. With any luck, crates won't be worthless any more.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Kain » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:21 am UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:
Anyone find it odd that an item made from 3 refined is on average worth less then that?


Not really, if they were worth more than that on average, everyone would always rather craft their refined into hats, sell their hats for a profit, and repeat. After only a few iterations, no one would trade more than three refined for an average hat, as they could just craft the refined into the hat instead and hypothetically make a profit, especially considering that the effort to make the hat is much less than the effort to get the refined metal, or so I understand. Thus, people wanting to sell hats would eventually have to sell the hats such that the average price of the hats appeared to be equal to or less than the amount of refined required to create them.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby userxp » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:22 pm UTC

Cool moment: spawn in a CTF server as a scout, find the enemy intelligence right in front of me with absolutely nobody around, and score one point in less than five seconds.
Embarrassing moment: spawn in a CTF server as a scout, run into the enemy base, find the intelligence halfway, return to my base... and realize I don't know where the intelligence room is :oops: .

BTW, do other people trade crates for stuff? Because I have lots of crates and I don't want to pay to open them. What's the point anyway? Can't you just buy the object you want?

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby BurningLed » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:17 pm UTC

User: Hats are usually worth more than $2.50 and you also have something like a 1% chance on any crate to get an Unusual hat, which is a hat with a particle effect like flames or sunbeams. Those are really, really, really valuable and are pretty much the sole reason anyone uses crates.

To answer your question: Crates are damn-near worthless. You can occasionally fin someone willing to trade a scrap for 8, and the Refreshing Summer Coolers look to be a bit more valuable (Maybe a weapon per 1 or 2 crates) right now, but crates in general are near-worthless.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Derek » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:04 pm UTC

If the crates are 19-21, you might be able to get 1 wep per one or two crates because it contains at least a strange weapon. If it's a summer cooler (22) you can get a bit more. If it's anything less than 19, you're better off just deleting it.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EdgarJPublius » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:35 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:I thought there was an option to only add as much money to your steam wallet as was needed for the transaction...

Nope. http://store.steampowered.com/steamaccount/addfunds
"Add 5 dollars (minimum fund level)."


Damn, just checked it, the link I was thinking of only shows up if your cart has more than five dollars worth of items in it.

Still, you could buy 5+ dollars of stamps. Remember that profits from community submitted weapons and hats also go to their creators. So when you buy items from the Mann co store, you aren't just enriching Valve to get some cosmetic items or some weapons you can find/craft/trade for in game, you're helping to support community members who love and play the game. (This is one reason I think TF2 can continue to be successful as a F2P game for the foreseeable future. The community creators have incentive to continue creating new content, and new content attracts new players. Getting the community involved in both improving and profiting from the game was a master move.)
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby SirBryghtside » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:31 pm UTC

TF2 isn't working for me. At all.

Every time I try and go into a server, it flashes up AUTO DISCONNECT in the top right corner, and blows up. It's almost certainly not my internet connection, because there's one 'HellsGamers' Dustbowl server that works.

It's really, really annoying me - help?
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby mmmcannibalism » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:49 pm UTC

Is trading something that is okay/something we can do in this thread?
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby The Scyphozoa » Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:37 am UTC

Awesome moment: as a pyro on defense (control points), an enemy's rocket/bomb explodes behind me, and I am unexpectedly propelled up to a platform where several enemies are standing. I proceed to kill two of them and get one assist. I have the replay, but rendering doesn't work for me.

Also: I got the achievement "Burn Notice" (Survive 30 seconds after being ignited while cloaked.) after I had died as a spy and switched to soldier. A few seconds into the life as the soldier, I got the achievement.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Rek » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:55 am UTC

Awesome moment: Playing cp_orange (Sorry :oops: ) and I climb along the outside balcony to the top of the tower. I find a medic, demo and pyro busy capping the point, so I (a Pyro) jump in with a quick burst of fire which kills the apparently weak demo (why the medic was ignoring him I don't know). The pyro turns around pulling out his shotgun but I airblast him off the tower, and then turn around and Axtinguish the medic. The pyro then runs up the side and I oneshot him off the building with my shotgun and cap the point.
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thecommabandit
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby thecommabandit » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:04 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:Awesome moment: as a pyro on defense (control points), an enemy's rocket/bomb explodes behind me, and I am unexpectedly propelled up to a platform where several enemies are standing. I proceed to kill two of them and get one assist. I have the replay, but rendering doesn't work for me.

Pyro is my most played class and I only recently had my best moment with it. I was attacking on cp_gravelpit and there was a really, really annoying person on the other team who kept speaking on voice. Mostly he was whining about the free to play change but he also audibly panicked each and every time he was set on fire. Which was why I was playing pyro. Anyway, the last point was being contested with two heavies, a medic and a soldier or something on the top of the tower and me and a few other people hiding around the door that opens onto the control point area. I was having fun trolling the annoying guy by popping out to shoot flares at him, which were put out by the medic. But he still panicked every time. Then I looked at the clock and said "Oh shit, thirty seconds left. I guess I should take the point then." (I was on Skype to someone playing the same game). I then went through the door, ran up to the tower and proceeded to burn everyone and airblast them off the tower single-handedly, killing all of them and taking the point. The dude was so angry.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby SirBryghtside » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:25 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:Also: I got the achievement "Burn Notice" (Survive 30 seconds after being ignited while cloaked.) after I had died as a spy and switched to soldier. A few seconds into the life as the soldier, I got the achievement.

I once got 'Fall Classic' while using the stock Scattergun.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Beardhammer » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:20 am UTC

thecommabandit wrote:
The Scyphozoa wrote:Awesome moment: as a pyro on defense (control points), an enemy's rocket/bomb explodes behind me, and I am unexpectedly propelled up to a platform where several enemies are standing. I proceed to kill two of them and get one assist. I have the replay, but rendering doesn't work for me.

Pyro is my most played class and I only recently had my best moment with it. I was attacking on cp_gravelpit and there was a really, really annoying person on the other team who kept speaking on voice. Mostly he was whining about the free to play change but he also audibly panicked each and every time he was set on fire. Which was why I was playing pyro. Anyway, the last point was being contested with two heavies, a medic and a soldier or something on the top of the tower and me and a few other people hiding around the door that opens onto the control point area. I was having fun trolling the annoying guy by popping out to shoot flares at him, which were put out by the medic. But he still panicked every time. Then I looked at the clock and said "Oh shit, thirty seconds left. I guess I should take the point then." (I was on Skype to someone playing the same game). I then went through the door, ran up to the tower and proceeded to burn everyone and airblast them off the tower single-handedly, killing all of them and taking the point. The dude was so angry.


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