Changing Olympic events

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby Jesse » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:27 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Dr. Diaphanous wrote:
UniqueScreenname wrote:I would watch Olympic rockclimbing.



What if there was a climbing wall that got harder the further up you climb, and the athlete who gets highest wins? That could work, though if the rating system is not precise enough it becomes a test of stamina.
And distance runs aren't tests of stamina?

Anyway, I'll second the Strongman style competitions. Or, really.. Timbersports. That shit is crazy. Crazy awesome.


I caught Timbersports on tv once, it was the greatest experience of my life.

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby UniqueScreenname » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:27 am UTC

natraj wrote:... archery is wicked sexy.

Amen.

My thought for rockclimbing was identical walls and making it a timed event, like the linked video (btw, were there only holes in the walls? That's epic.[/i]

How would Calvinball even work? Would they have every piece of equipment from every sport ever on the court at all times? That seems nuts.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby pizzazz » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:22 am UTC

Modern pentathlon should be updated. It was originally based on what skills a military officer would need, but the combination of fencing, pistol shooting, and equestrian doesn't make much sense any more, it just feels random. If we try to keep the spirit of military officers, we might end up with something like knife-fighting, rifle shooting, and an obstacle course on top of the running and swimming. Actually now that I think about it, swimming doesn't necessarily make sense either; what about an orienteering race?

Also, fencing should have 12 events. It's pretty silly they have to drop 2 team events every year. Maybe I'm just biased because this year, one of the events dropped was men's epee, and the US men's epee team is #1 in the world right now.

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:05 pm UTC

Team Combat Sports. I've mentioned paintball (team shooting), but what about team fencing or even team MMA? Is there any way to make that safe?
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby cegan09 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:36 pm UTC

I want some sort of motorsport. The two that make the most sense are karting and Race of Champions.

Karting works like rowing and sailing, everyone gets the same kart, may the most skilled driver win.

race of champions already happens, and seeks to find the best all around driver out there. Why not give them a little Olympic glory every 4 years.

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby AvatarIII » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:02 pm UTC

cegan09 wrote:I want some sort of motorsport. The two that make the most sense are karting and Race of Champions.

Karting works like rowing and sailing, everyone gets the same kart, may the most skilled driver win.

race of champions already happens, and seeks to find the best all around driver out there. Why not give them a little Olympic glory every 4 years.



how about something like the A1 Grand Prix that was going for a few years, basically Formula 1 racing, but people raced for their country rather than a team, and everyone had an identical car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1_Grand_Prix

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby eSOANEM » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:13 pm UTC

cegan09 wrote:Karting works like rowing and sailing, everyone gets the same kart, may the most skilled driver win.


Even in the Olympics where all the boats are "one-design" classes, this is not quite the case. In one of the classes (470 I think) the teams are free to pretty much do what they like with their sails provided they have only 3 (including 1 spinnaker) and they attach at the same points (mast and boom for the main, forestay and mast for jib and spinnaker pole and mast for the kite), in other classes like the star, there are several manufacturers of the same class who make the boats slightly differently with slightly different materials (this Olympics all but 2 boats chose the same manufacturer though, IIRC one of those 2 though got bronze). There are others like the FInn where it's pretty fixed but the competitors provided their own boat (and Ben Ainslie sailed his boat from Athens rather than the new one he had been given) and some even more restricted like the laser and laser radial with just one manufacturer world-wide, no modification allowed at all and the boats provided by the host.

So even within "one-design" racing there's quite a bit of variation and some of that would transfer to motor-racing so you'd have to make a choice.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby cegan09 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:31 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
cegan09 wrote:Karting works like rowing and sailing, everyone gets the same kart, may the most skilled driver win.


Even in the Olympics where all the boats are "one-design" classes, this is not quite the case. In one of the classes (470 I think) the teams are free to pretty much do what they like with their sails provided they have only 3 (including 1 spinnaker) and they attach at the same points (mast and boom for the main, forestay and mast for jib and spinnaker pole and mast for the kite), in other classes like the star, there are several manufacturers of the same class who make the boats slightly differently with slightly different materials (this Olympics all but 2 boats chose the same manufacturer though, IIRC one of those 2 though got bronze). There are others like the FInn where it's pretty fixed but the competitors provided their own boat (and Ben Ainslie sailed his boat from Athens rather than the new one he had been given) and some even more restricted like the laser and laser radial with just one manufacturer world-wide, no modification allowed at all and the boats provided by the host.

So even within "one-design" racing there's quite a bit of variation and some of that would transfer to motor-racing so you'd have to make a choice.


I may have over generalized. But with karting you can make it extremely fair. Same karts, engines, tires, etc. Hell you can even add weight boxes to level the playing field that way if you wish. I just think motorsport deserves a spot, especially considering some events that are currently allowed.


speaking of 470's, My dad has one in the back yard, i really need to take it out sometime.

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby ahammel » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:42 pm UTC

Dr. Diaphanous wrote:Team Combat Sports. I've mentioned paintball (team shooting), but what about team fencing...

Already a thing that exists, and has been in the Olympics since 1904.

EDIT: but on that note: canne de combat would be crazy awesome.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby boXd » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:21 pm UTC

I want a Magic: The Gathering competition at the Olympics. I was going to suggest Dungeons and Dragons, but that doesn't quite seem to fit the spirit of a competitive game.

Oh, I know one! Team DM paintball! In kayaks!

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby JudeMorrigan » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:44 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:
Dr. Diaphanous wrote:Team Combat Sports. I've mentioned paintball (team shooting), but what about team fencing...

Already a thing that exists, and has been in the Olympics since 1904.

EDIT: but on that note: canne de combat would be crazy awesome.

I don't think that's what was meant by team fencing. I think the idea was more along the lines of a multi-person melee. Actual team fencing is multiple 1v1 bouts until a team gets enough combined touches, right?

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby ahammel » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:55 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:I don't think that's what was meant by team fencing. I think the idea was more along the lines of a multi-person melee.

Oh.

This would be an extremely difficult thing to score, and pretty dangerous. It also actually breaks the combat-simulation aspect of the sport, since fencing is done with foils of duelling weapons, melee weapons.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:15 pm UTC

It should be easy to score. They're all wired up, right? So if you are touched by a sword, it is registered electronically, it notifies you and your hits no longer count. Team loses when all the team are out. It shouldn't be hard to change to a more appropriate kind of sword: after all there are already 3 types. It shouldn't be more dangerous than 1-on-1 fencing, as long as you modify the protective clothing to give full protection including the back of the head.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby ahammel » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:30 pm UTC

Dr. Diaphanous wrote:It should be easy to score. They're all wired up, right? So if you are touched by a sword, it is registered electronically, it notifies you and your hits no longer count. Team loses when all the team are out.
What if it was an illegal touch or somebody wants to challenge? Stop the whole thing? How do you restart it?

Dr. Diaphanous wrote:It shouldn't be more dangerous than 1-on-1 fencing, as long as you modify the protective clothing to give full protection including the back of the head.
I'm more worried about corps-a-corps body checks (accidental or otherwise) than loose foils. Falling over in the middle of five or seven other people trying to fence with one another could be pretty nasty.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby pizzazz » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:52 am UTC

In practice, for fun, we did 2v2 epee one day earlier this year. You essentially had two strips set up next to each other, with 2 sets of boxes and 2 fencers similarly to normal , but when one person got a touch, the opponent on their side was locked out as normal while the other two each had one "beat" (the time for one action) to score before the ref called a halt. So you could have anywhere from 1 to 4 points scored at a time. Of course, if it actually became a sport, I'm sure one could develop electronic systems for whatever rules you wanted, or maybe add more people. It wouldn't really be much more dangerous than 1v1, since I suspect most teams are going to want to stay pretty close to in line.

JudeMorrigan wrote:Actual team fencing is multiple 1v1 bouts until a team gets enough combined touches, right?


Close. You have 9 periods, so that every member of each 3-person team fences every member of the opposing team. Each period ends after 3 minutes, or when the next multiple of five is reached (so the 1st period ends when someone has 5, the second when someone has 10, etc.). So in particular, it's possible, if you're behind, to get many more touches in one round than one could in a regular 3 minute bout.

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby Tyndmyr » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:08 pm UTC

pizzazz wrote:Modern pentathlon should be updated. It was originally based on what skills a military officer would need, but the combination of fencing, pistol shooting, and equestrian doesn't make much sense any more, it just feels random. If we try to keep the spirit of military officers, we might end up with something like knife-fighting, rifle shooting, and an obstacle course on top of the running and swimming. Actually now that I think about it, swimming doesn't necessarily make sense either; what about an orienteering race?


My experience with modern military officers indicates that you'll want to replace knife-fighting with filling out papers. :D

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby Epsocco » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:15 am UTC

The skills required of a modern military officer would not make for very good television.

They would include events such as coffee drinking, solitaire, filling out paperwork, browsing the internet, and showing up to work late. Just to name a few.

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby Angua » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:32 pm UTC

At juggling club, they had a game called Gladiators. You juggle with pins, and have to try and stop the other person from juggling while you keep juggling yours (so you periodically hold a pin for a second or two and wave it at your opponent). That could work as a sport.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:44 pm UTC

The race walk is pointless, just a running race with an annoying rule about how you place your feet. If you want a walking race you need a better reason for the athletes not to run. Therefore I propose that the race walkers must each carry a massively heavy backpack. They can run if they want, but then the weight is probably not heavy enough. Alternatively: Piggy back relay.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby ahammel » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:56 pm UTC

Dr. Diaphanous wrote:The race walk is pointless, just a running race with an annoying rule about how you place your feet. If you want a walking race you need a better reason for the athletes not to run. Therefore I propose that the race walkers must each carry a massively heavy backpack. They can run if they want, but then the weight is probably not heavy enough. Alternatively: Piggy back relay.
Or hoplitodromos.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby OP Tipping » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:07 am UTC

That sepak takraw is not already in the Olympics is a joke. It's the best sport ever.


Apart from that, I would like to see a combat heptathlon: start with Boxing and then Greco-Roman wrestling, Judo, Taekwondo, Fencing, Freestyle wrestling and then Mixed Martial Arts.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby ahammel » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:12 am UTC

Ooh, how about trail running? 10k over the nearest mountain.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby 3fj » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:43 am UTC

ahammel wrote:Ooh, how about trail running? 10k over the nearest mountain.

Then one year China and/or Nepal host it and everything gets out of hand.

Rugby. For good this time. Also, I think that if we're going to insist that there's a paralympic/olympic divide, then we should introduce wheelchair rugby to the olympics as well because it's the best sport on the planet.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:53 pm UTC

3fj wrote:Rugby. For good this time. Also, I think that if we're going to insist that there's a paralympic/olympic divide, then we should introduce wheelchair rugby to the olympics as well because it's the best sport on the planet.


Rugby 7s are in for Rio so rugby (in some form at least), is back.

Anyway, cheese rolling is my new suggestion.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby OP Tipping » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:46 pm UTC

And I vote yes for Calvinball.



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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby Jesse » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:18 pm UTC

Unable to sleep last night, thinking about SC2 in the Olympics, and then wondering why I've never seen any Olympic Chess, even though it'd be fucking boss.

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby 3fj » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:36 pm UTC

Chess Boxing. That'd be pretty sweet.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby yurell » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:17 am UTC

Jesse wrote:Unable to sleep last night, thinking about SC2 in the Olympics, and then wondering why I've never seen any Olympic Chess, even though it'd be fucking boss.


There's a chess Olympiad, but the Olympics doesn't allow chess for completely arbitrary reasons. The IOC even recognises it as a sport (had to use that fact to defend doing my Yr 10 PE project on chess).
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby crowey » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:14 am UTC

3fj wrote:
ahammel wrote:Ooh, how about trail running? 10k over the nearest mountain.

Then one year China and/or Nepal host it and everything gets out of hand.

Rugby. For good this time. Also, I think that if we're going to insist that there's a paralympic/olympic divide, then we should introduce wheelchair rugby to the olympics as well because it's the best sport on the planet.

been done http://www.everestmarathon.org.uk/

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby 3fj » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:31 am UTC

eSOANEM wrote:Rugby 7s are in for Rio so rugby (in some form at least), is back.


I hope they keep it in this time. I don't see how it's even up for debate (must be a pretty full category?)

crowey wrote:been done http://www.everestmarathon.org.uk/

Holy fuck. Still, you'd think that'd take different training than usual to cope with changes in altitude, etc.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby ahammel » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:09 pm UTC

yurell wrote:There's a chess Olympiad, but the Olympics doesn't allow chess for completely arbitrary reasons. The IOC even recognises it as a sport [...]
A fact which means that players in internationally-rated tournaments are subject to random tests for doping, much to their fairly uniform displeasure.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby yurell » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:12 pm UTC

All the costs, none of the benefits ...
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby freakish777 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:19 pm UTC

Paintball (or laser tag? you wouldn't want a judge missing to call someone out, would you?)
Robot Combat
MMA
Some variation of Tag with a scoring system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_(game)#Busted sounds awesome with the right "playground" equipment, scoring could be based on the amount of time you spent as it, low score wins?? something like this could replace gymnastics? Someone not "it" touches the ground, they become "it" someone who is "it" touches the ground, they are penalized 5 seconds?).

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:02 pm UTC

The Olympics are supposed to be about HUMAN competition. Robot wars would be incredibly off point. This is one of the reasons I'm less impressed by equipment intensive activities, especially ones like sailing.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby freakish777 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:16 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:The Olympics are supposed to be about HUMAN competition. Robot wars would be incredibly off point. This is one of the reasons I'm less impressed by equipment intensive activities, especially ones like sailing.


This is me not caring. All of the Robot Combat events are human built and controlled anyways (ie, HUMAN competition, just more minds instead of muscles, if Chess is recognized by the IOC, I see no reason Robot Combat shouldn't be).

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:01 pm UTC

3fj wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:Rugby 7s are in for Rio so rugby (in some form at least), is back.


I hope they keep it in this time. I don't see how it's even up for debate (must be a pretty full category?)


Because Rugby is a pretty small sport worldwide. There are loads of countries who couldn't field a team because no-one knows how to play.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:24 pm UTC

freakish777 wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:The Olympics are supposed to be about HUMAN competition. Robot wars would be incredibly off point. This is one of the reasons I'm less impressed by equipment intensive activities, especially ones like sailing.


This is me not caring. All of the Robot Combat events are human built and controlled anyways (ie, HUMAN competition, just more minds instead of muscles, if Chess is recognized by the IOC, I see no reason Robot Combat shouldn't be).

Chess is recognized, but not in the Olympics. Power boating shouldn't be an Olympic sport. Neither should NASCAR. The Olympics aren't 'games of the mind', but 'competition of the body', IMO.
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:24 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
freakish777 wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:The Olympics are supposed to be about HUMAN competition. Robot wars would be incredibly off point. This is one of the reasons I'm less impressed by equipment intensive activities, especially ones like sailing.


This is me not caring. All of the Robot Combat events are human built and controlled anyways (ie, HUMAN competition, just more minds instead of muscles, if Chess is recognized by the IOC, I see no reason Robot Combat shouldn't be).

Chess is recognized, but not in the Olympics. Power boating shouldn't be an Olympic sport. Neither should NASCAR. The Olympics aren't 'games of the mind', but 'competition of the body', IMO.


This is not the case historically. The first few olympiads had powerboating, motorsport, poetry and several other mental competitions as well. Furthermore, if any motorsport or powerboating were done to a strict one-design with all vehicles provided by the olympic committee and all identical, in what sense would they be sports "of the mind" anymore? The only competition would be in how well people can drive them which fits perfectly with the olympic ideal of "faster".
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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby boXd » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:11 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Chess is recognized, but not in the Olympics. Power boating shouldn't be an Olympic sport. Neither should NASCAR. The Olympics aren't 'games of the mind', but 'competition of the body', IMO.


Wouldn't that leave you with only athletics, rowing and swimming? There's plenty of tactics and strategy to be found in most other sports, making them 'games of the mind' in a sense. Where do you draw the line between 'games of the mind' and 'competition of the body', and how would you argue that this line isn't completely arbitrary?

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Re: Changing Olympic events

Postby Chen » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:29 pm UTC

boXd wrote:Wouldn't that leave you with only athletics, rowing and swimming? There's plenty of tactics and strategy to be found in most other sports, making them 'games of the mind' in a sense. Where do you draw the line between 'games of the mind' and 'competition of the body', and how would you argue that this line isn't completely arbitrary?


Clearly you'd need to use your body in SOME way for any game. I suppose you could add the distinction in that if you could replace the body with something computer controlled (or move the whole game to a virtual environment) and it didn't affect the competition at all, it wouldn't be a competition of the body anymore. Things like Chess and Bridge would fall into this category. Auto racing and sailing still wouldn't since you wouldn't be dealing with the real dynamic forces in the car/boat if you replaced the person with a remotely controlled robot.


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