Question your longheld stereotypes...

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The Mighty Thesaurus
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:08 pm UTC

Chuff wrote:I have a question for people who live in modern, liberal, western, constitutional monarchies:
I am under the impression that most of you lot are pretty cool with having Kings and Queens.* Why doesn't it bother you? Especially if, like the British Queen, they do still have power, they just have not so far chosen to use it?


*I know this isn't all cases. I've heard the Aussies are pretty tired of having a monarchy. But then, Canucks seem to like her as much as Englishmen. Oh! On Canadians and the Queen: As far as I can tell, part of the reason you like her is that having a Queen is un-American, and you don't like being grouped with 'Mericans. Is this true?

To say that Her Majesty has power is disingenuous; were she to exercise her power, she would find them curtailed.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Chuff » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:12 pm UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:To say that Her Majesty has power is disingenuous; were she to exercise her power, she would find them curtailed.
Her direct representative in Canada was actually asked to make a decision that effected who was the PM a couple of years ago. True story.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Adacore » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:35 pm UTC

Again, born, raised & identify as male. I never felt like being male was wrong, or didn't fit me - I don't know why, it's just the way things are. But, having said that, I don't have a massively strong attachment to my gender identity; if I were in a 'female' body, I don't think I'd have a problem with it. I'd probably be pretty comfortable identifying as female. Does that mean I don't currently identify as male? I don't think it does. I guess this is the reason I have a bit of trouble empathising with people who do feel very strongly that they're in the wrong gender body.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:39 pm UTC

Was it anything like the situation we had here in Australia in 1975?
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby kinigget » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:21 am UTC

Goldstein wrote:
To get to the root of the question, can I turn this one around? For those whose gender didn't align with society's expectations, or who don't feel that they belong to any particular gender, are you able to put into words why that might be? There are a lot of guys that I don't like at all, and then there are a lot of guys that I feel to share an understanding with. That's the best reason I can give for thinking of myself as male. Am I overlooking something that I take for granted in identifying with other men?

Actually, you more or less just answered your own question. There isn't really a definable "why", at least not for me. I don't actually strongly identify with any gender, but I would much prefer to be a girl. That said, I couldn't exactly tell you why this is, but the feeling is there nonetheless. I don't think I'm really explaining this very well, but hey, something is better than nothing right?
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Shivahn » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:20 am UTC

kinigget wrote:
Goldstein wrote:
To get to the root of the question, can I turn this one around? For those whose gender didn't align with society's expectations, or who don't feel that they belong to any particular gender, are you able to put into words why that might be? There are a lot of guys that I don't like at all, and then there are a lot of guys that I feel to share an understanding with. That's the best reason I can give for thinking of myself as male. Am I overlooking something that I take for granted in identifying with other men?

Actually, you more or less just answered your own question. There isn't really a definable "why", at least not for me. I don't actually strongly identify with any gender, but I would much prefer to be a girl. That said, I couldn't exactly tell you why this is, but the feeling is there nonetheless. I don't think I'm really explaining this very well, but hey, something is better than nothing right?


... I will second that. I have trouble identifying as anything, and putting pronouns on myself feels either wrong or disheartening, but would much rather have been born with the internal machinery. That would just be... better, and there's no way to explain it other than a vague feeling that something should have been different.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Sarr » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:26 am UTC

Here's the thing - this:
Aaeriele wrote:
Midnight wrote:I think that someone who DOESN'T come from the same background, be they gay, transgendered, cis-gendered, I-don't-know-other-terms-but-i'm-trying-to-be-all-inclusive, would say the same. That's just how they feel. That's how it is.
Yep, that's pretty much what I'd say as well.
Is about what you're going to get from most trans folks. Because that's what most of us have. We know what feels right, and what doesn't, and it's not something that's easy to explain to people who haven't felt it.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby EmptySet » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:14 am UTC

Chuff wrote:I have a question for people who live in modern, liberal, western, constitutional monarchies:
I am under the impression that most of you lot are pretty cool with having Kings and Queens.* Why doesn't it bother you? Especially if, like the British Queen, they do still have power, they just have not so far chosen to use it?


Well, it's not like she could be any more useless than the rest of the politicians, haha. But the Australian monarchy are basically powerless figureheads. If they actually tried to interfere with our government it would pretty much guarantee the success of the republican movement, and they know it. They're kind of a waste of money, but a lot of people like them because of tradition and because they're an amusing source of gossip.

Adacore wrote:Again, born, raised & identify as male. I never felt like being male was wrong, or didn't fit me - I don't know why, it's just the way things are. But, having said that, I don't have a massively strong attachment to my gender identity; if I were in a 'female' body, I don't think I'd have a problem with it. I'd probably be pretty comfortable identifying as female. Does that mean I don't currently identify as male? I don't think it does.


Similar. I'm male. I'm also right-handed! It's not that I would have a problem with being a leftie, but I'm not one.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Chuff » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:56 am UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Was it anything like the situation we had here in Australia in 1975?
I don't know what happened there, so I guess you can decide for yourself. Gist of it was: Opposition Liberals, NDP and Bloc wanted to form a coalition, giving them a majority, and Conservative PM Stephen Harper was all like "Hey Governor General, prorogue parliament, k?" and the Governor General was like "fine" and then the new coalition couldn't have a non-confidence vote, so Harper stayed in power. And now he has a majority.
Last edited by Chuff on Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:02 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Manial » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:00 am UTC

Chuff wrote:
The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Was it anything like the situation we had here in Australia in 1975?
I don't know what happened there, so I guess you can decide for yourself. Gist of it was: Opposition Liberals, NDP and Bloc wanted to form a coalition, giving the a majority, and Conservative PM Stephen Harper was all like "Hey Governor General, prorogue parliament, k?" and the Governor General was like "fine" and then the new coalition couldn't have a non-confidence vote, so Harper stayed in power. And now he has a majority.
I'm not sure of the details myself (it happened long before I was born), but as I recall the Governor General dismissed the elected PM, Gough Whitlam and dissolved parliament because the senate was deadlocked over a budget. I think the public's response was "They can do that?!".

This wiki page is a lot better at explaining it.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby meridian » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:07 pm UTC

Shivahn wrote:
kinigget wrote:
Goldstein wrote:
To get to the root of the question, can I turn this one around? For those whose gender didn't align with society's expectations, or who don't feel that they belong to any particular gender, are you able to put into words why that might be? There are a lot of guys that I don't like at all, and then there are a lot of guys that I feel to share an understanding with. That's the best reason I can give for thinking of myself as male. Am I overlooking something that I take for granted in identifying with other men?

Actually, you more or less just answered your own question. There isn't really a definable "why", at least not for me. I don't actually strongly identify with any gender, but I would much prefer to be a girl. That said, I couldn't exactly tell you why this is, but the feeling is there nonetheless. I don't think I'm really explaining this very well, but hey, something is better than nothing right?


... I will second that. I have trouble identifying as anything, and putting pronouns on myself feels either wrong or disheartening, but would much rather have been born with the internal machinery. That would just be... better, and there's no way to explain it other than a vague feeling that something should have been different.



I'm going to third this -- and whoever said that thing earlier to this effect.

I don't identify as female. Physically, I am female. Mentally, I'd have to say I identify as tomboy androgynous. I have always wanted to be male, but recognized that even as a child, it was because being male had some inherent advantages. I only had male friends, for the most part, as a child and found female emotions (as expressed by girls my age) trite and annoying and hard as hell to understand/predict. As I grew up, I acquired curves that would not hide my gender and I despaired. As I began to experience physical intimacy, I've found I thought something was missing... "mechanically" (if you will) on my end.

However, I'm comfortable with my body and it's advantages and disadvantages (okay, maybe not the disadvantages). I don't know what this means other than I don't want to actively seek changing it. I also don't feel comfortable enough with my determination in the strongly feminist or actively masculine topic (as I still don't know) to want to change my pronouns. I'm okay with gender simply not mattering to me, in my sexual preferences and my own self perceptions.

Can I say why this is? Nope. I may just be rebelling against social constraints. All I know is that I started this very young, to the point of rejecting any other color than blue as my favorite as it is the boy's color.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby AngrySquirrel » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:37 pm UTC

What meridian said. More or less, I chose black over blue.

It's like I've shown up to a party where everyone's dressed in either suits or coctail-dresses and I'm there dressed as a bear. And while I could put on a suit or a dress, it just won't fit. The dresses would be too tight and the suits would be too big and no matter how much I sew they still will never fit.

I let people refer to me as female because it's easier that way. That way I don't have to explain myself at every turn. But whenever someone talks to me with my name or refer to me as such I feel like they are talking to a different person. Someone whose face I'm just borrowing. I've tried defining where I belong, but it just made me feel miserable. So I don't do that anymore. The labels don't fit me and I won't be happy if I change myself to fit the labels.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby M1k3_Nix » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:50 pm UTC

Chuff wrote:I have a question for people who live in modern, liberal, western, constitutional monarchies:
I am under the impression that most of you lot are pretty cool with having Kings and Queens.* Why doesn't it bother you? Especially if, like the British Queen, they do still have power, they just have not so far chosen to use it?


*I know this isn't all cases. I've heard the Aussies are pretty tired of having a monarchy. But then, Canucks seem to like her as much as Englishmen. Oh! On Canadians and the Queen: As far as I can tell, part of the reason you like her is that having a Queen is un-American, and you don't like being grouped with 'Mericans. Is this true?

I like having a monarchy. it feels traditional and 'Britishy'

AS with regards to power, I believe the British monarch is still involved in the Law making process*, eg she has final say so on whether or not a law is past. It is however, very rare for such a use of power to be displayed

*may be a little fuzzy on the details, trying to recall that one from GCSE Law class
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:31 pm UTC

As a child, I thought I was Humphrey Bogart. Now I know I was just Michel Poiccard.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Hammer » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:05 pm UTC

Question for anyone with a "disability": On TV, people with disabilities are often portrayed as having a "superpower" directly resulting from their disability. Examples includes a person who is blind with an absurdly powerful sense of smell and a person with a mental disability being a prodigy at some specific thing like playing the piano or learning languages. Has your disability compensated you with any superpowers? How do you feel about the tendency to portray people with disabilities that way?
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Ptolom » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:13 pm UTC

Not exactly a disability perhaps, but the depiction of OCD in Monk is bullshit. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm not tidy. I'm mostly too anxious to get around to any tidying.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:18 pm UTC

Ptolom wrote:Not exactly a disability perhaps, but the depiction of OCD in Monk is bullshit. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm not tidy. I'm mostly too anxious to get around to any tidying.
the depiction of aspergers on tv tends to be largely bullshit, at least in my experience.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby broken_escalator » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:21 pm UTC

The depiction of losing glasses/contacts on TV is also largely bullshit, goddamn Velma making us out to be helpless.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby fuzzycuzzy » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:22 pm UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:
Ptolom wrote:Not exactly a disability perhaps, but the depiction of OCD in Monk is bullshit. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm not tidy. I'm mostly too anxious to get around to any tidying.
the depiction of aspergers on tv tends to be largely bullshit, at least in my experience.

is there ever a case where the portrayal on tv is close to reality?

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Shivahn » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:24 pm UTC

Ptolom wrote:Not exactly a disability perhaps, but the depiction of OCD in Monk is bullshit. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm not tidy. I'm mostly too anxious to get around to any tidying.


Er, it's not exactly bullshit. There are people who get OCD symptoms like that.

The real problem is that it's a broad disorder, and for some reason in TVland OCD is ALWAYS germ-phobia and tidiness, and they don't focus so much on the fact that that's nowhere near an exhaustive list of symptoms.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby JudeMorrigan » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:55 pm UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:
Ptolom wrote:Not exactly a disability perhaps, but the depiction of OCD in Monk is bullshit. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm not tidy. I'm mostly too anxious to get around to any tidying.
the depiction of aspergers on tv tends to be largely bullshit, at least in my experience.

Having a nephew who suffers from severe autism, I'd personally say that's true of the autism spectrum in general.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby KestrelLowing » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:59 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:
The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:
Ptolom wrote:Not exactly a disability perhaps, but the depiction of OCD in Monk is bullshit. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm not tidy. I'm mostly too anxious to get around to any tidying.
the depiction of aspergers on tv tends to be largely bullshit, at least in my experience.

Having a nephew who suffers from severe autism, I'd personally say that's true of the autism spectrum in general.


I think autism is one of the hardest disorders to depict because there are so many variations. OCD's a little like that too, but yes, for some reason it's always about the germs!

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Hammer » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:10 pm UTC

Ptolom wrote:Not exactly a disability perhaps, but the depiction of OCD in Monk is bullshit.

Monk is a great TV example of having a disability confer a superpower.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Ptolom » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:30 pm UTC

The most unconvincing thing about Monk, is that he has every single stereotypical flavour of ocd the writers could think of. People aren't just "ocd" in general. They have ocd, which is fixated on one or two issues, and often a specific fear. For example, my ocd is mostly a response to a fear of accidental brain damage.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby DSenette » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:09 pm UTC

fuzzycuzzy wrote:
The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:
Ptolom wrote:Not exactly a disability perhaps, but the depiction of OCD in Monk is bullshit. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm not tidy. I'm mostly too anxious to get around to any tidying.
the depiction of aspergers on tv tends to be largely bullshit, at least in my experience.

is there ever a case where the portrayal on tv is close to reality?

depends? (not asperger's.....or T.V. but....) Rainman was a technically accurate portrayal of autism*

*a very specific incident of autism that one guy had (the guy they modeled the character off of) and not specifically autism in general
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Aaeriele » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:15 pm UTC

The main issue with TV portrayals is the general assumption that they are representative as opposed to just demonstrative.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby fuzzycuzzy » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:54 am UTC

Aaeriele wrote:The main issue with TV portrayals is the general assumption that they are representative as opposed to just demonstrative.

when you think about it, that could very well be the stem of all racism and sexism, what you just said...

Question for those who identify as female with some technology career: How does it feel to be part of a field largely dominated by men? Do you care? Do think it actually makes a positive difference?

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Goldstein » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:01 am UTC

I suspect there might have been racism and sexism before TV.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:09 pm UTC

The problem with Oedipus Rex is that people assumed everyone raised in Corinth was into parricide and incest.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby felltir » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:56 pm UTC

My ehlers-danlos syndrome gives me great party tricks, and I could work as a contortionist if I wanted. That's the closest I've got.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby natraj » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:14 pm UTC

When I lost my hearing I developed the ability to read minds as direct compensation for not being able to hear people anymore, it helps a lot with communication. I can also shoot lightning from my fingertips; it started at the same time but I've never been able to figure out the correlation.

In all seriousness I would like some superpowers but the universe has not yet seen fit to bestow them upon me. I, uh, can read lips super good? That is less superpowery and more Lots Of Practice, but when I am with hearing friends in loud places they are screwed and I am not so hey! Really, anything that I tend to do better these days (as a result of being deaf) is just because I had to work at it to compensate and not because any senses/facilities of mine magically got better. Like I tend to be really hyper-aware of my surroundings and notice tiny details and movements a lot quicker than people, but that's cuz I have to pay attention to everything visually that other people can rely on hearing for!

Similarly, my best friend growing up went blind, and he'd always notice sounds before other (hearing) people did, not because he developed super-hearing but because he had no eyesight to rely on, so when you have fewer senses to focus on, you focus on them more.

I suspect if you (generic Fully Able-Bodied You) tried blindfolding yourself for a week or putting earplugs in your ears all week etc., by the end of the week you would notice similar changes in the way you paid attention to the world, with no actual change in your levels of sensory ability, but I can see how it might otherwise seem like going blind/deaf/etc made your other senses improve.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Shivahn » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:23 pm UTC

Hammer wrote:
Ptolom wrote:Not exactly a disability perhaps, but the depiction of OCD in Monk is bullshit.

Monk is a great TV example of having a disability confer a superpower.

Actually, if you consider OCD a disability, it has given me super powers. They are just the kind of super powers that suck.

For example, I rarely miss things, or enter numbers into databases incorrectly. This is a direct result of me feeling very anxious if I've checked less than two or three times. I never leave doors unlocked when leaving work, but that's because I come back and check twice even if I only remembered to check when I'm in the car and four minutes away (I've never actually found the door unlocked when I went back and checked. I always lock it the first time).

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby D.B. » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:56 pm UTC

Re: monarchs.

I'm not awfully fussed about them either way. We could have a president, sure. But this would presumably be someone who would otherwise be in the House of Commons/Lords, and I'm not awfully convinced any of them would be better than what we have now :P . So long as they don't actually interfere and keep the tourists coming in, I don't really care.

Chuff wrote:
The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Was it anything like the situation we had here in Australia in 1975?
I don't know what happened there, so I guess you can decide for yourself. Gist of it was: Opposition Liberals, NDP and Bloc wanted to form a coalition, giving them a majority, and Conservative PM Stephen Harper was all like "Hey Governor General, prorogue parliament, k?" and the Governor General was like "fine" and then the new coalition couldn't have a non-confidence vote, so Harper stayed in power. And now he has a majority.


Am not familiar with Canadian politics, but my gut feeling is that I'd be more worried if the Governor General ignored a direct request from the PM on such an important topic. At that point you'd have a non-elected official acting in a way that directly contravened the wishes of an elected one. Going by this article, at the time it was written a prorogue request had never been refused.

Felltir wrote: Also, if she was to be asked to step down, a lot of our armed forces would react similarly to america outlawing guns.

Really? That's not been my impression at all.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby felltir » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:58 pm UTC

D.B. wrote:
Felltir wrote: Also, if she was to be asked to step down, a lot of our armed forces would react similarly to america outlawing guns.

Really? That's not been my impression at all.


Do you know many people in the armed forces? A lot of them, in my experience, are fiercely loyal to the monarchy. They fight for Queen and Country. Queen first.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby D.B. » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:18 pm UTC

Felltir wrote:Do you know many people in the armed forces? A lot of them, in my experience, are fiercely loyal to the monarchy. They fight for Queen and Country. Queen first.

I was in the RN for a while. Mind you, it wasn't a topic I went around asking about - my response was based more on day to day observation and the 'feel' of things. Perhaps had I dug a bit more it would have been more apparent. Hmm.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Aaeriele » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:39 pm UTC

fuzzycuzzy wrote:Question for those who identify as female with some technology career: How does it feel to be part of a field largely dominated by men? Do you care? Do think it actually makes a positive difference?


It can be somewhat... lonely? at times. Also see here (but keep in mind that is a Dear SB thread).
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Chuff » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:04 pm UTC

D.B. wrote:Re: monarchs.

I'm not awfully fussed about them either way. We could have a president, sure. But this would presumably be someone who would otherwise be in the House of Commons/Lords, and I'm not awfully convinced any of them would be better than what we have now :P . So long as they don't actually interfere and keep the tourists coming in, I don't really care.
Or, you know, a PM with slightly more power, I guess. And ideally, to my anti-nobility mind, no House of Lords.

D.B wrote:Am not familiar with Canadian politics, but my gut feeling is that I'd be more worried if the Governor General ignored a direct request from the PM on such an important topic. At that point you'd have a non-elected official acting in a way that directly contravened the wishes of an elected one. Going by this article, at the time it was written a prorogue request had never been refused.
My problem isn't that she granted the request, but more that it was her decision in the first place.

Also, I'm not trying to offend. I personally wouldn't like having a Queen, but I do find the peerage fascinating, so I kind of understand it.
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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby KestrelLowing » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:18 pm UTC

fuzzycuzzy wrote:Question for those who identify as female with some technology career: How does it feel to be part of a field largely dominated by men? Do you care? Do think it actually makes a positive difference?


The biggest deal is that some men have an unconscious bias that females don't know as much or are less able. Hardly anyone is openly or consciously sexist, but society just has a way of sticking with you. They're just less like to trust women and I feel like I have to prove myself than other males in my same position. Also, there's the "wow, you suck at math" "wow, girls suck at math" which is kind of annoying.

In the places I've been a co-op, most every engineer is at least 55, white and male. This leads them to basically see me similarly to their daughters, so some are a little patronizing, but that's obviously a factor of my age as well.

Also, the assumption that you're a secretary is sometimes made.

But yeah, it can be lonely when you're the 'odd one out' and don't fit in the "old boy's club"

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby Ptolom » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:42 pm UTC

Shivahn wrote:For example, I rarely miss things, or enter numbers into databases incorrectly. This is a direct result of me feeling very anxious if I've checked less than two or three times.

I have that one too. It may be useful, but it makes online shopping a pretty intense experience.

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Re: Question your longheld stereotypes...

Postby D.B. » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:07 pm UTC

Chuff wrote:My problem isn't that she granted the request, but more that it was her decision in the first place..
Okay then. That's a totally defensible position to my mind.

As for the house of lords, yeah, it's troubling. But there's something of a perception in the uk (not awfully sure how accurate it is, have never done any proper research) that our attempts to reform this over the last few years have resulted in it becoming much more partisan, which I don't like either. It would be nice to do some proper reform, but I just don't trust very many of the current people who have the power to do this to not act solely in their own self interest when doing so. Which I guess leaves me with...no viable solution.

And if the not-trying-to-offend remark was aimed at me, don't worry. This thread is about asking questions about things, right? :)


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