I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Things that don't belong anywhere else. (Check first).

Moderators: Moderators General, Prelates, Magistrates

User avatar
Bobber
contains Disodium Phosphate
Posts: 1357
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:09 pm UTC
Location: Holme, Denmark.
Contact:

I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Bobber » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:00 pm UTC

Why is it that I hear people say things like these:

"In the old days people used silly forms of toothpaste."
"They used weird things like baking soda and cinnamon!"
"That's so stupid! People were stupid back then!"
"Now we have toothpaste. It's so much better."

Do people like these (and I hear this too often, maybe almost once every second year, the last time was lately) actually realize what companies like Zendium put in toothpaste now?

I quote from the list of ingredients on my bottle of Zendium Mild Whitener:

"Water, Hydrated Silica, Sorbitol, Glycerol, Steareth-30, Disodium Pyrophosphate, Chondrus Crispus Extract, Disodium Phosphate, Aroma, Titanium Dioxide, Sodium Fluoride, Sodium Benzoate, Sodium Saccharin, Potassium Thiocyanate, Zinc Gluconate, Colostrum, Lysozyme, Lactoferrin, Lactoperoxidase, Amyloglucosidase, Glucose Oxidase."

(I translated stuff like Aqua into normal English Water, so it's not true to the wording.)

But I am a scientist, so I cannot just jump to conclusions like "there are a lot of chemicals in it so it must be bad!"
So I set out to research every single individual chemical in the toothpaste, to see if any of them were "bad" in some arbitrary way.
These are my results.

Water. No problemo.
Hydrated Silica. This is just a kind of thin gel-like abrasive composed of natural minerals (silicon dioxide) and water. No problemo.
Sorbitol. A sugar alcohol sweetener. Could induce adverse effects in people with certain gastrointestinal diseases, but the amounts are minute and it is probably safe.
Glycerol. An organic compound that the body safely metabolizes, especially at these minute amounts. No problemo.
Steareth-30. A polyethylene glycol ether of stearic acid. There are so many of these that they don't even have real names, they are just numbered. The FDA permits it but it doesn't have a lot of research on it. Probably safely metabolized into fat, but again, the amounts are very minute.
Disodium Pyrophosphate. This stuff has some serious industrial applications. "In leather treatment, it can be used to remove iron stains on hides during processing." "In petroleum production, it can be used as a dispersant in oil well drilling muds." This stuff is also used in canned seafood though, and the FDA permits it.
Chondrus Crispus Extract. Chondrus Crispus is a red alga which grows on the seabed on the American and European coasts of the Atlantic Ocean. Not poisonous, so very probably safe. This stuff is added to thicken the toothpaste.
Disodium Phosphate. This is added so the other ingredients blend evenly, I think. This stuff is bad. It is marked as an "Irritant" on the bottle that contains it, which alarms me. If others know better, I am very interested.
The Aroma could be anything, but maybe some people are allergic. You would think that they would know to use a non-allergenic aroma though. Probably safe.
Titanium Dioxide. Just the "rust" made by the metal Titanium. Added to make your teeth look whiter, I guess. Controversial studies claim that high concentrations this compound just miiiiight give you a little bit of cancer, but the amounts in the toothpaste are very small.
Sodium Fluoride. Strengthens the teeth. This is why you are even using the toothpaste at all!
Sodium Benzoate. Reacts with Vitamin C to form the compound Benzene, which is very carcinogenic. But even if you swish your mouth in lemon juice, bite into a lemon and brush your teeth with pulp still in your mouth, should there be any chance of enough Benzene to form to pose a threat. They claim.
Sodium Saccharin. An artificial sweetener which only causes bladder cancer in rats, not in any other mammal, as shown in countless studies since the fifties. Safe.
Potassium Thiocyanate. A chemical used for fake blood in movies. Just a salt, not known to be unsafe. FDA says go.
Zinc Gluconate. Some people are freaking about this chemical causing you to lose your sense of smell. I think it's just mass hysteria from one guy going "I think I'm losing my sense of smell since I started using this product!", and then a lot of people going "I am also using this product and I think my sense of smell has gotten worse". I think it's safe. Its purpose is to deliver zinc for the nutritional value.
Colostrum. I quote from Wikipedia: "Colostrum (also known colloquially as beestings,[citation needed], bisnings[1] or first milk) is a form of milk produced by the mammary glands of mammals in late pregnancy. Most species will generate colostrum within one day of giving birth." (I keep in the notation for its charm.). Ok so nothing to worry about here, just breast milk from some unknown mammal in late pregnancy. Cow, I guess? Right? Right...? :(
Lysozyme. An enzyme that is supposed to kill the bacteria in your mouth. I think this is another reason for why we are even using the toothpaste.
Lactoferrin. As far as I can infer from its Wikipedia article, this is a sub-ingredient of the Colostrum. WP says that the highest concentrations are in human milk, followed by cow milk. I don't think it likely that there are factories where human women work, pumping their breasts to get milk, then shipping it off to the Zendium Toothpaste Factory. So this affirms the fact the the milk in the toothpaste is cow milk. The reason for this ingredient is that it strengthens the mouth against bacteria.
Lactoperoxidase. Another sub-ingredient of the milk. Fights bacteria. Also an antioxidant (which is good).
Amyloglucosidase. Also known as Amylase. An enzyme also found in saliva, which breaks starch down into sugar. I don't know why this is in the toothpaste, but there is probably a rational explanation.
Last but not least Glucose Oxidase. Has a number of uses. I think the sought after use here is its function as a natural preservative. It's also antimicrobial. I believe it comes from honey. Safe I guess.

That took an hour to research. Wow. I swear that Wikipedia was not my only source.

There sure are a lot of ingredients in this toothpaste. I'd love it if there were people out there with those health-nut toothpastes who would post a list of ingredients if they have it. Otherwise, just read my pointless post and let it die. Everyone knows how it is to write a pointless post and then just end up deleting it, but I feel that the full hour this post took to type at least deserves fifteen seconds on the front page, so here goes.

Thank you if you took your time to read all this.
Also, sorry if you took your time to read all this.

EDIT: bolded ingredients.
Last edited by Bobber on Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:28 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
I don't twist the truth, I just make it complex.
mrbaggins wrote:There are two tools in life, duct tape and WD40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.

User avatar
The Scyphozoa
Posts: 2871
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:33 pm UTC
Location: Sector 5

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby The Scyphozoa » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:46 pm UTC

Brushing your teeth with cinnamon... I am so jealous.
Image
3rdtry wrote:If there ever is another World War, I hope they at least have the decency to call it "World War 2: Episode One"

doogly wrote:murder is a subset of being mean

User avatar
Fat Zombie
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:28 am UTC
Location: The comfy chair.

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Fat Zombie » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:53 pm UTC

Fascinating post. I liked! Also, I'm sure I read somewhere that the reason that you get a bitter aftertaste from food and drink after using most toothpastes is due to one of the chemicals they put into it to induce foaming (so you get visual results from the toothpaste). Toothpastes that aren't mint-flavoured don't tend to have the foaming agent, apparently. This is all based on something I read ages ago in an issue of New Scientist, however, so don't quote me on it.

Also, looking it up on wikipedia and HOLY SHI-

With the exception of toothpaste intended to be used on pets such as dogs and cats, and toothpaste used by astronauts, most toothpaste is not intended to be swallowed, and doing so may cause nausea or diarrhea; fluoride toothpaste can be toxic if swallowed in very large amounts. If a large amount of toothpaste is swallowed, Poison Control should be contacted immediately.


How did I survive my childhood?
...And before you ask: yes, I do like to listen to myself talk!

User avatar
poxic
Eloquently Prismatic
Posts: 4751
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:28 am UTC
Location: Left coast of Canada

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby poxic » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:57 pm UTC

I once tried brushing with a 3:1 baking soda:cinnamon mix. It was kind of nasty-tasting. Baking soda is gross.

I went back to regular toothpaste when I found that the cinnamon was getting stuck under my gums. I couldn't see any good coming of that.
A man who is 'ill-adjusted' to the world is always on the verge of finding himself. One who is adjusted to the world never finds himself, but gets to be a cabinet minister.
- Hermann Hesse, novelist, poet, Nobel laureate (2 Jul 1877-1962)

User avatar
TheKrikkitWars
Posts: 2205
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:08 pm UTC
Location: Bangor, Gwynedd, Gogledd Cymru
Contact:

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:27 am UTC

Fat Zombie wrote:Fascinating post. I liked! Also, I'm sure I read somewhere that the reason that you get a bitter aftertaste from food and drink after using most toothpastes is due to one of the chemicals they put into it to induce foaming (so you get visual results from the toothpaste). Toothpastes that aren't mint-flavoured don't tend to have the foaming agent, apparently. This is all based on something I read ages ago in an issue of New Scientist, however, so don't quote me on it.

Also, looking it up on wikipedia and HOLY SHI-

With the exception of toothpaste intended to be used on pets such as dogs and cats, and toothpaste used by astronauts, most toothpaste is not intended to be swallowed, and doing so may cause nausea or diarrhea; fluoride toothpaste can be toxic if swallowed in very large amounts. If a large amount of toothpaste is swallowed, Poison Control should be contacted immediately.


How did I survive my childhood?


Fluoride Ions are devastatingly bad for your blood, pure Sodium Fluroide is toxic, via the same mechanism as the poisoning resultant from hydrofluoric acid burns.

Thus, Kids-specific toothpaste is not flurodated.
Great things are done when Men & Mountains meet,
This is not Done by Jostling in the Street.

User avatar
Lazar
Landed Gentry
Posts: 2151
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:49 pm UTC
Location: Massachusetts

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Lazar » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:33 am UTC

Fluoride saps and impurifies all of our precious bodily fluids.
Exit the vampires' castle.

User avatar
poxic
Eloquently Prismatic
Posts: 4751
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:28 am UTC
Location: Left coast of Canada

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby poxic » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:39 am UTC

Heh. I used a health-type-no-icky-chemmies toothpaste for a while. Tom's of Maine, specifically. You don't realise how sweet normal toothpaste is until you try an unweetened one. :shock:

I switched back to the fluoridated stuff after a dental hygienist told me that long-term Tom's of Maine users get soft teeth. The fluoride is actually an important part of keeping your ivories strong and rot-free in the long term. Also, my teeth have become ridiculously sensitive, so I use a specific product for that. (Toothpaste by itself is NOT supposed to make your teeth hurt. >.< )
A man who is 'ill-adjusted' to the world is always on the verge of finding himself. One who is adjusted to the world never finds himself, but gets to be a cabinet minister.
- Hermann Hesse, novelist, poet, Nobel laureate (2 Jul 1877-1962)

User avatar
LongLiveTheDutch
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:17 pm UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby LongLiveTheDutch » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:21 am UTC

Thanks for the very interesting post :) One thing that would help with legibility is if you bolded your ingredients.

User avatar
Azrael001
Posts: 2385
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:15 am UTC
Location: The Land of Make Believe.
Contact:

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:29 am UTC

poxic wrote:Heh. I used a health-type-no-icky-chemmies toothpaste for a while. Tom's of Maine, specifically. You don't realise how sweet normal toothpaste is until you try an unweetened one. :shock:

I switched back to the fluoridated stuff after a dental hygienist told me that long-term Tom's of Maine users get soft teeth. The fluoride is actually an important part of keeping your ivories strong and rot-free in the long term. Also, my teeth have become ridiculously sensitive, so I use a specific product for that. (Toothpaste by itself is NOT supposed to make your teeth hurt. >.< )
When I was a kid my parents tried Tom's toothpaste. The fruit stuff was interesting, and like was mentioned earlier, it didn't lather.
23111

User avatar
Bobber
contains Disodium Phosphate
Posts: 1357
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:09 pm UTC
Location: Holme, Denmark.
Contact:

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Bobber » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:56 am UTC

Fat Zombie wrote:Fascinating post. I liked!
Thank you. Then it was not in vain after all. :D
Poxic wrote:Heh. I used a health-type-no-icky-chemmies toothpaste for a while. Tom's of Maine, specifically. You don't realise how sweet normal toothpaste is until you try an unweetened one.
I can only imagine. It find it humorous that it's not as good for you as the regular toothpaste.
I don't twist the truth, I just make it complex.
mrbaggins wrote:There are two tools in life, duct tape and WD40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.

MadParrot
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 9:48 am UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby MadParrot » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:45 am UTC

Huh interesting, annoyingly mine (colgate total) only has the 'active ingredients' - Soduim flouride 0.22% and triclosan 0.3% (pretty sure that's just some anti-bacterial stuff). I thought Australia usually had pretty good laws about such things, apparently not. The rest is obviously magic white gunk.

User avatar
Nith Azra
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:14 pm UTC
Location: B-Town/Bendighetto
Contact:

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Nith Azra » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:03 am UTC

Nah, in Australia it's mostly just paste made from ground-up teeth.

Works real well.
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:I wrote "moistly"... wierd.


::.._____..::ROYAL RAINBOW!!!::.._____..::

User avatar
TheKrikkitWars
Posts: 2205
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:08 pm UTC
Location: Bangor, Gwynedd, Gogledd Cymru
Contact:

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:45 am UTC

poxic wrote:Heh. I used a health-type-no-icky-chemmies toothpaste for a while. Tom's of Maine, specifically. You don't realise how sweet normal toothpaste is until you try an unweetened one. :shock:

I switched back to the fluoridated stuff after a dental hygienist told me that long-term Tom's of Maine users get soft teeth. The fluoride is actually an important part of keeping your ivories strong and rot-free in the long term. Also, my teeth have become ridiculously sensitive, so I use a specific product for that. (Toothpaste by itself is NOT supposed to make your teeth hurt. >.< )


The sweetener is there to mask the smell and taste of the sodium laureth sulphate which makes it lather, unadulterated it's not unlike rotten cabbage mixed with boiled eggs.

Also I lol'ed at the Dr Strangelove ref, but please Lasar there's no need to start an apocalyptic nuclear war over the supposed pollution of your life-essence.
Great things are done when Men & Mountains meet,
This is not Done by Jostling in the Street.

Chris Dude70
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:13 am UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Chris Dude70 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:11 pm UTC

I know that the toothpaste I used to use had the same stuff in it that causes washing poweder to foam...
Really best not to think about what goes into your mouth.

User avatar
boring bore
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:23 am UTC
Location: Don't stalk me, it's not worth it

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby boring bore » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:11 am UTC

Bobber wrote:Last but not least Glucose Oxidase.

Well, if it's the last in an ingredients list, it probably will indeed be the least prominent ingredient in the toothpaste. Sorry, I couldn't just keep that to myself, could I?

I don't really have any problem with toothpaste--I'm the type of person who follows things blindly as long as it's been used by everyone else without killing most of them. I kind of just hope the toothpaste makers and everyone who approved it knew what they were doing.
Image
Guys you should totally register for this and join the xkcd team! Rath358 started us off and we're kinda small so the more people who join us, the better for our team and, hopefully, for humanity!

User avatar
cypherspace
Posts: 2733
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:48 pm UTC
Location: Londonia

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby cypherspace » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:34 am UTC

Lazar wrote:Fluoride saps and impurifies all of our precious bodily fluids.
Damn Russkies...
"It was like five in the morning and he said he'd show me his hamster"

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:05 am UTC

There have been a few articles here and there about the excessive addition of fluoride to everything in the American landscape. I've spoken to a few dentists about whether or not I should switch toothpaste brands to something either more environmentally friendly (like Toms of Maine) or something less chemically doped, and have gotten firm and constant "just suck it up, the current incarnation of toothpaste is the best there has ever been [for your mouth], as we know it".
My biggest concern is that most of the companies (Proctor and Gamble, I'm looking at you!) are incredibly environmentally negligent in their habits.

But hell, all toothpaste I've seen strongly warns against swallowing the stuff. I mean, you wouldn't rub shampoo in your eyes, don't swallow tablespoons of toothpaste.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
LuNatic
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:21 am UTC
Location: The land of Aus

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby LuNatic » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:33 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:Brushing your teeth with cinnamon... I am so jealous.


♪ Brush yer teeth with orange juice! ♪
Cynical Idealist wrote:
Velict wrote:Good Jehova, there are cheesegraters on the blagotube!

This is, for some reason, one of the funniest things I've read today.

stevey_frac
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:27 pm UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby stevey_frac » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:37 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:Fluoride Ions are devastatingly bad for your blood, pure Sodium Fluroide is toxic, via the same mechanism as the poisoning resultant from hydrofluoric acid burns.

Thus, Kids-specific toothpaste is not flurodated.



LD50 for sodium floride is 52 mg/kg for rats.

So, theoretically, a good big tube of toothpaste could be fatal to a small child if they swallowed the whole thing at once. That's probably why kid tooth paste isn't flurodated.

In the tiny amounts in toothpaste, given that you aren't supposed to swallow it.. the exposure is low enough to be minimal, and the advantages to your teeth are significant. Enough that with proper use, flurodated tooth paste probably extends life expectancy, and improves quality of life enough to support it's continued use.

Also: since most kids loose that set of teeth anyways, who cares if they go a bit soft?
__Kit wrote:
Also, who the fuck wants to be normal? You got one lifetime, why be like everyone else?

User avatar
Cane
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:45 pm UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Cane » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:38 pm UTC

I think this qualifies as more than just a rant. Thanks for the info. Not sure what I would have expected, but certainly more active ingredients.
Red Hal: I'll tell you what you can do with your autoerotic anal penetration, young Cane, you can shove it up y... oh, hang on.

User avatar
wst
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:06 am UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby wst » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:30 pm UTC

stevey_frac wrote:So, theoretically, a good big tube of toothpaste could be fatal to a small child if they swallowed the whole thing at once. That's probably why kid tooth paste isn't flurodated.
This has given me terrible, terrible ideas. I'm just going to sign up for Dentist school now...
Anything I said pre-2014 that you want to quote me on, just run it past me to check I still agree with myself.

stevey_frac
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:27 pm UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby stevey_frac » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:54 pm UTC

wst wrote:
stevey_frac wrote:So, theoretically, a good big tube of toothpaste could be fatal to a small child if they swallowed the whole thing at once. That's probably why kid tooth paste isn't flurodated.
This has given me terrible, terrible ideas. I'm just going to sign up for Dentist school now...


If you couldn't work out that there was a reason why kids toothpaste wasn't fluoridated...

I have little fear that you will actually... like..

get in?
__Kit wrote:
Also, who the fuck wants to be normal? You got one lifetime, why be like everyone else?

User avatar
wst
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:06 am UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby wst » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:48 pm UTC

stevey_frac wrote:
wst wrote:
stevey_frac wrote:So, theoretically, a good big tube of toothpaste could be fatal to a small child if they swallowed the whole thing at once. That's probably why kid tooth paste isn't flurodated.
This has given me terrible, terrible ideas. I'm just going to sign up for Dentist school now...
If you couldn't work out that there was a reason why kids toothpaste wasn't fluoridated...

I have little fear that you will actually... like..

get in?
I thought it was for bone growth reasons. Also, I fix planes. That should scare you.
Anything I said pre-2014 that you want to quote me on, just run it past me to check I still agree with myself.

User avatar
Fat Zombie
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:28 am UTC
Location: The comfy chair.

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Fat Zombie » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:50 pm UTC

wst wrote:
stevey_frac wrote:If you couldn't work out that there was a reason why kids toothpaste wasn't fluoridated...

I have little fear that you will actually... like..

get in?
I thought it was for bone growth reasons. Also, I fix planes. That should scare you.


Well, as long as you don't try to fix them with toothpaste we should all be fine.
...And before you ask: yes, I do like to listen to myself talk!

User avatar
SurgicalSteel
Posts: 1926
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:18 pm UTC
Location: DMV, USA

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby SurgicalSteel » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:28 am UTC

I'm more concerned with the kind of "terrible, terrible ideas" that the phrase "So, theoretically, a good big tube of toothpaste could be fatal to a small child if they swallowed the whole thing at once. That's probably why kid tooth paste isn't flurodated" has given him.
"There's spray paint on the teleprompter
Anchorman screams that he's seen a monster (mayday)
There's blood stains on his shirt (mayday)
They say that he's gone berserk."
--Flobots "Mayday"

User avatar
TaintedDeity
Posts: 4003
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:22 pm UTC
Location: England;

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby TaintedDeity » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:36 am UTC

Feed kids toothpaste?
Ⓞⓞ◯

User avatar
PhoenixEnigma
Posts: 2303
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:11 am UTC
Location: Sasquatchawan, Canada
Contact:

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:41 am UTC

You know those powder candy disc things ("rockets" in Canada, "smarties" in the US, not sure what else they might be called)? I bet you could make knock-offs from dried toothpaste if you wanted. Just saying.
"Optimism, pessimism, fuck that; we're going to make it happen. As God is my bloody witness, I'm hell-bent on making it work." -Elon Musk
Shivahn wrote:I am a motherfucking sorceror.

User avatar
wst
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:06 am UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby wst » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:23 am UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:Feed kids toothpaste?
No, I'll just tell them it's astronaut food. Then I'm not culpable.
Anything I said pre-2014 that you want to quote me on, just run it past me to check I still agree with myself.

User avatar
Bobber
contains Disodium Phosphate
Posts: 1357
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:09 pm UTC
Location: Holme, Denmark.
Contact:

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Bobber » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:45 am UTC

I just fired a rubber band 20 feet with one finger.

Oh, and thanks for all the replies! I see my rant (okay so some of you wouldn't call it a rant, but still) has evolved into a discussion on fluoridation, which is also interesting.
Does anyone know if fluoridated water has any benefits when the person drinking it already brushes her teeth twice a day with "normal" fluoridated toothpaste?
Various websites tell me that the fluoridation levels of water (where this is done) is one part per million. Toothpaste, I reckon, has around 1200-1500 parts per million.
I don't twist the truth, I just make it complex.
mrbaggins wrote:There are two tools in life, duct tape and WD40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.

User avatar
SurgicalSteel
Posts: 1926
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:18 pm UTC
Location: DMV, USA

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby SurgicalSteel » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:08 pm UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:You know those powder candy disc things ("rockets" in Canada, "smarties" in the US, not sure what else they might be called)? I bet you could make knock-offs from dried toothpaste if you wanted. Just saying.
That's actually a really interesting thought. If you made them from kid's toothpaste so it'd be safe to swallow I wonder if they could be marketed as a candy that cleans your kid's teeth (well, as much a candy as smarties already are, which is to say, only sort of).
"There's spray paint on the teleprompter
Anchorman screams that he's seen a monster (mayday)
There's blood stains on his shirt (mayday)
They say that he's gone berserk."
--Flobots "Mayday"

stevey_frac
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:27 pm UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby stevey_frac » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:15 pm UTC

Bobber wrote:I just fired a rubber band 20 feet with one finger.

Oh, and thanks for all the replies! I see my rant (okay so some of you wouldn't call it a rant, but still) has evolved into a discussion on fluoridation, which is also interesting.
Does anyone know if fluoridated water has any benefits when the person drinking it already brushes her teeth twice a day with "normal" fluoridated toothpaste?
Various websites tell me that the fluoridation levels of water (where this is done) is one part per million. Toothpaste, I reckon, has around 1200-1500 parts per million.


It's so low level, that It will barely make any difference at all is my opinion.

If you look at people on city water, then at people on private wells, there doesn't appear to be a huge tooth decay difference anyway.
__Kit wrote:
Also, who the fuck wants to be normal? You got one lifetime, why be like everyone else?

User avatar
Cane
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:45 pm UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Cane » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:50 pm UTC

Bobber wrote:Various websites tell me that the fluoridation levels of water (where this is done) is one part per million. Toothpaste, I reckon, has around 1200-1500 parts per million.

But the relative quantities of the two substances are an even bigger factor.

1 g Toothpaste * 2 uses/day * 1500 ppm = 3 mg

2 L water/day * 1000 g/L * 1 ppm = 2 mg

I know these are all complete ball park figures, but the order of magnitude seems to be the same.
Red Hal: I'll tell you what you can do with your autoerotic anal penetration, young Cane, you can shove it up y... oh, hang on.

User avatar
viscusanima
Posts: 352
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:39 am UTC
Location: Cyprus!

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby viscusanima » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:21 pm UTC

Fluoride in toothpaste is one of the best ideas ever. Basically, normal enamel is called hydroxyapatite. It's pretty strong, it's pretty damn good. However, if you consume fluoride in small amounts during the time at which the enamel/tooth is formed, it doesn't form hydroxyapatite. Instead, it forms fluorapatite, which is a far denser structure, with the fluoride ions blocking up the holes in hydroxyapatite. There's also no hydrogen in it, don't know why. Normal enamel is composed of calcium, phosphorus, oxygen and hydrogen. Fluorapatite is calcium, phosphorus, oxygen and fluorine. Also, interesting little fact: enamel is the hardest substance produced by your body. Marvellous, isn't it?

Water fluoridation is also meant to accomplish this, but there are concerns over skeletal fluorosis, weakened bones and dental fluorosis (those white spots you can get on your teeth, they're not nice).

User avatar
Pianodog
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:24 pm UTC
Location: Just south of free health care.

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Pianodog » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:39 pm UTC

stevey_frac wrote:If you look at people on city water, then at people on private wells, there doesn't appear to be a huge tooth decay difference anyway.


Living out in the woods as I do, I'm on well water. While it tastes incredible (more or less like Poland Spring does), it doesn't have as much flouride as I might get in a city. Reading around, it seems the biggest differences you can make are generally taking good care of your teeth and going regularly to the dentist. From Wikipedia - Countries that stopped adding flouride didn't go up in tooth decay, but stayed the same or moved lower based on how much people actually take care of themselves (schools with dental awareness programs, dentist visits, etc).

So I suppose the lesson to be gleaned is that statistically, if you see someone who lives out in the woods and their teeth have rotted out, it's more likely because they don't take care of them and don't regularly see a dentist - as opposed to them lacking anything from their well water. I've seen plenty of city folk with half their teeth gone and the other half brown and yellow.

I've also head of people who are "prone" to cavities (my wife) and people who are resistant to them (me). I brush once a day and at 32, not having seen a dentist in 14 years, I have no cavities. She brushes twice a day and has had cavities as an adult, despite dentist visits. I'd be curious as to how much the extra flouride you might get from city water can help someone who's prone to cavities vs. not having it.

Hm. This thread makes me want to look for a toothpaste with a higher flouride content to help her teeth out.
http://www.lilliansolstice.com/soaps.html - Awesome Soap.

PSA: Support the gaming industry, but do it smartly. Remember to check for restrictive DRM before buying as a way to remind publishers that we're their customers, not their enemies.

User avatar
Cane
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:45 pm UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Cane » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:00 pm UTC

Of course general tooth care is the primary indicator of dental health. I've been trying to find when schools started administering fluoride treatments to kids. I think maybe it was started in the 70s (anyone know the actual start)? So it is difficult to compare how youth-based treatments affect adult health since so much has changed overall in the decades in between. Even things like changed attitude of insurance companies on preventative cleanings and the prevalence of employer-sponsored dental care may be drastically changed. It is difficult/impossible to know if those city folks with the messed up teeth would be as bad if they had had fluoride treatment during the time of their life where it would have been most effective.
Red Hal: I'll tell you what you can do with your autoerotic anal penetration, young Cane, you can shove it up y... oh, hang on.

stevey_frac
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:27 pm UTC

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby stevey_frac » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:57 am UTC

wst wrote:
stevey_frac wrote:
wst wrote:
stevey_frac wrote:So, theoretically, a good big tube of toothpaste could be fatal to a small child if they swallowed the whole thing at once. That's probably why kid tooth paste isn't flurodated.
This has given me terrible, terrible ideas. I'm just going to sign up for Dentist school now...
If you couldn't work out that there was a reason why kids toothpaste wasn't fluoridated...

I have little fear that you will actually... like..

get in?
I thought it was for bone growth reasons. Also, I fix planes. That should scare you.



Sorry about that. It was more of a 'I hope you aren't saying your going to hurt kids, jerk', and less of a 'I don't think you have the intellectual aptitude to be a dentist'
__Kit wrote:
Also, who the fuck wants to be normal? You got one lifetime, why be like everyone else?

Perpy
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:59 pm UTC
Location: Up north

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Perpy » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:08 pm UTC

I guess that most of the ingredients on that list, in a great amount, would be poisonous at some level. I mean, even water will kill you if you have enough of it. As for the disodium phosphate, do you mean that it's an "irritant" for the skin, or if it's swallowed? I'm thinking that if swallowed, it would metabolise into sodium- and phosphate-ions. In a great amount, the phophate-ions could be enough to disturb the pH of the blood stream, which would be really bad. Getting a few milligrams (if that) extra each day, should not be harmful. This is because the body will try to stabilise the pH-level, and get rid of the phosphate-ions pretty fast.

Fun fact: Sorbitol has a laxative effect when consumed in high enough doses, and many hospitals use it for this purpose.

User avatar
Bobber
contains Disodium Phosphate
Posts: 1357
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:09 pm UTC
Location: Holme, Denmark.
Contact:

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Bobber » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:59 pm UTC

Perpy wrote:As for the disodium phosphate, do you mean that it's an "irritant" for the skin, or if it's swallowed?

The Internet just says "irritant". So no idea.
I don't twist the truth, I just make it complex.
mrbaggins wrote:There are two tools in life, duct tape and WD40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.

Perpy
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:59 pm UTC
Location: Up north

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby Perpy » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:19 pm UTC

Through my powers of research, I found out that it's an eye and skin irritant (link). Also, it's actually considered an important salt for blood buffering, in other words keeping the pH in the blood stable.

User avatar
uncivlengr
Posts: 1202
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:35 pm UTC
Location: N 49°19.01 W 123°04.41

Re: I am angry: let me rant at toothpaste

Postby uncivlengr » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:12 pm UTC

Examining the individual chemicals and pointing out their other applications never seems to reflect anything meaningful (I'm alluding especially to the chemical also used in hide tanning). Various chemicals in various quantities in various circumstances produce various results - you don't look at water listed as an ingredient and think, "chemical that can cause severe burns in its gaseous form".

This is just a little step beyond the "oh my god look at all the chemicals" method of analysis.
I don't know what to do for you


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests