Baring my heart Venn Diagram question

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AmyLizK
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Baring my heart Venn Diagram question

Postby AmyLizK » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:29 pm UTC

What grade did you learn how to use Venn Diagrams?

My boyfriend and I got into an argument (we argue about math and linguistics for fun... who doesn't? heh) about this because he insists he learned about them back in grade school, whereas I'm sure they were brought to my attention in high school, I don't recall earlier, but I also know Venn diagrams are taugh in college level Stat I classes. Apparently my boyfriend took college level Third Grade. :roll: :wink:

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Postby xkcd » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:37 pm UTC

What grade did you learn how to use Venn Diagrams?

I am pretty sure I learned them from some random book or comic before we did them in school. But I also think I remember doing them in elementary school, then not doing them again for quite some time.

I guess they're one of those things that you CAN teach at any level, they're just of questionable usefulness, so they sometimes wait until there's a specific reason to teach them (which can be at any level).

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Postby James » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:42 pm UTC

Yeah, I'd say around somewhere 2nd-4th grade, leading into concept mapping.
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Postby Fluidfox » Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:27 am UTC

about 6th grade for me... they didn't rear their head intil stat in college after that. We spent like an hour on them in grade school..

Once again, it's just one of those things that is easy to teach... fluffs out the "here's what we taught your children" list. But considering it has very little application until you get into college level courses, I really think they just use it as filler material before that.

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Postby BanishedShadow » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:05 pm UTC

i am going into 10th grade and i can tell you without a doubt that they teach you venn diagrams in first grade, then second grade. then third grade. then fourth grade. then fifth grade. then sixth grade. then seventh grade.


and they treat it like its something extremely new and special EVERY TIME!!!

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Postby sxtxixtxcxh » Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:28 pm UTC

my daughter knows venn diagrams... and she's like... 3.

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Postby davean » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:24 pm UTC

Venn diagrams are only usefull for communication, they in no way constitute a proof or anything, so ...

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Postby Frankeinstein » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:00 pm UTC

I didn't know these spheres had a name before I read this thread.

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Postby Shoofle » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:12 pm UTC

They are circles, most of the time. I suppose they could be spheres, though. That would be nifty.

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Postby Frankeinstein » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:38 pm UTC

Stop shaking the very foundations of my faith. Do you have any idea how revolutionary that kind of thinking is? All my life I've been thinking they are spheres and now you tell me the can be spheres. And that they are actually usually circles.

This calls for pilgrimage to Vennland.

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Postby Fluidfox » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:10 am UTC

If they were plotted in three dimensions as overlapping spheres, they would be a more robust tool of communication...

Ok, I have to admit I just felt the need to say "Robust"

Herpes.

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Postby Chocobean » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:28 am UTC

BanishedShadow wrote:i am going into 10th grade and i can tell you without a doubt that they teach you venn diagrams in first grade, then second grade. then third grade. then fourth grade. then fifth grade. then sixth grade. then seventh grade.


See that's just north american school. When I was going to school in Hong Kong they never taught us this, because tools like this for "communication" and "brainstorming" is useless: It only serves as a tool for other kids to steal your ideas and "get ahead" i life. It could also lead to independent thought and visualising "ideas".

</bitter-sarcasm>

But seriously maybe HK was right this time, about not teaching this to kids repeatedly every year.

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Postby Spritzido » Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:43 am UTC

We get taught this when we reach year 6 (10-11 yr olds) in England. They're probably the most fun graph to do, mainly because you don't need a ruler and pinpoint accuracy to do them!

Me: "Haha! CIRCLES. Take that bar graph."
Bar Graph: ;-;
Line Graph: "Don't worry man. He'll come crawling back when he's doing statistics modules!"

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Postby RealGrouchy » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:42 am UTC

Frankenstein: love the squareland reference!

I first heard of them (by name, at least) in first-year logic, and like everything else in that class, when I saw them, I was like, "duh!" (and most of the rest of the class struggled like crazy!)

But they are useful for solving stuff, especially in those vague situations where complex words are used. "Wait, if only A is B, but some C are not B, when the hell do I get my chocolate ice cream sandwich?"

- RG>
Jack Saladin wrote:etc., lock'd
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:At least he has the decency to REMOVE THE GAP BETWEEN HIS QUOTES....
Sungura wrote:I don't really miss him. At all. He was pretty grouchy.

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Postby Shoofle » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:18 pm UTC

I've just always known about them, I think. I forget when I first learned them, but I think I just kind of figured that they were. They just were.

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Postby CactusEater » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:10 pm UTC

grade school.

ithink i was like 8

is taht grade school? i dont understand american schooling systems
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Postby deosilmau » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:03 pm UTC

f
Last edited by deosilmau on Tue May 14, 2013 5:01 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby davean » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:22 am UTC

deosilmau wrote:I think grade school ends at grade 7? Maybe grade 6? I have no idea. I went to a NORMAL school district, with a K-7 school and an 8-12 school.


Which is normal exactly where? No where I've heard of, and if I haven't heard of it, it doesn't matter.

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Postby kira » Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:22 am UTC

We seem to all be able to agree that Venn diagrams are learned early on in school at least. Which brings me to my point.

While on my travels in the southwest, I stopped at an information sign on the side of the road that discussed the various fires that had ravaged the area. There was an aerial map of the valley with a red outline demarking the area burned by a 1980s fire and a yellow outline showing the area burned in the 1990s. These two areas overlapped and, clearly written in the clearly overlapping area, was the explanation: "Area burned in both fires."

It boggles the mind.

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Postby xkcd » Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:31 am UTC

While on my travels in the southwest, I stopped at an information sign on the side of the road that discussed the various fires that had ravaged the area. There was an aerial map of the valley with a red outline demarking the area burned by a 1980s fire and a yellow outline showing the area burned in the 1990s. These two areas overlapped and, clearly written in the clearly overlapping area, was the explanation: "Area burned in both fires."

It boggles the mind.

What about the area not in either circle? What was that? Was there a label? What did it mean?

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Postby kira » Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:39 am UTC

I assumed that it was the area burned by previous fires, not listed on the diagram. You know, since it's the southwest and all, there is no area not burned by fires.

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Postby Chocobean » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:16 am UTC

wow kira, something like that is worthy of a picture I think. I wonder what people will think if it wasn't labelled in.
"oh this huge area in the middle is there NEITHER fires burned, clearly"

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Postby RealGrouchy » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:57 am UTC

Obviously they didn't. The fire of christmas past and the fire of christmas future could both see each other in the time-space continuum, and since it's a morality play, they kept their distance from each other in the middle area.

- RG>
Jack Saladin wrote:etc., lock'd
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:At least he has the decency to REMOVE THE GAP BETWEEN HIS QUOTES....
Sungura wrote:I don't really miss him. At all. He was pretty grouchy.

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Postby author-unknown » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:59 pm UTC

RealGrouchy wrote:Obviously they didn't. The fire of christmas past and the fire of christmas future could both see each other in the time-space continuum, and since it's a morality play, they kept their distance from each other in the middle area.

- RG>

Serves as a lesson to the rest of us sinners. Look how nice those fires treat each other! I'm ashamed not to be on fire.
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Postby davean » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:38 pm UTC

author-unknown wrote:
RealGrouchy wrote:Obviously they didn't. The fire of christmas past and the fire of christmas future could both see each other in the time-space continuum, and since it's a morality play, they kept their distance from each other in the middle area.

- RG>

Serves as a lesson to the rest of us sinners. Look how nice those fires treat each other! I'm ashamed not to be on fire.


Trust me, we can help you with this, how long do you want to burn? still burn on, and on, and on, and on...

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Postby RealGrouchy » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:04 am UTC

davean wrote:
Trust me, we can help you with this, how long do you want to burn? still burn on, and on, and on, and on...


(flamewars don't count!!!)
Jack Saladin wrote:etc., lock'd
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:At least he has the decency to REMOVE THE GAP BETWEEN HIS QUOTES....
Sungura wrote:I don't really miss him. At all. He was pretty grouchy.

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Postby author-unknown » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:49 pm UTC

davean wrote:Trust me, we can help you with this, how long do you want to burn? still burn on, and on, and on, and on...

FOREVER!
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Postby ivnja » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:38 am UTC

speaking of venn diagrams....which you guys were some six and a half months ago....a lot of the people on here would probably like the indexed blog. I don't know how or when I began reading it, I may even have seen it here in the forums, but I decided to go back and browse through the old topics and came across this thread and thought of that site. So whether or not people already knew about it, there it is.

Also, hooray for Billy Joel references :)
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Postby Hawknc » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:15 am UTC

zomg! I lost that site ages ago and I had no idea what it was called. Thanks!

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Postby Toeofdoom » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:21 am UTC

Venn diagrams were taught really stupidly at my primary school. It was like they were "too complicated for little kids to understand"... but maybe that was just me. I dunno, but they seemed to take forever just to get past 2 circles
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Postby aisling » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:40 pm UTC

I learned about them in about the 2nd or 3rd grade, but only the simple 2 circle variety. We got to do really stupid ones for like, characters in books and stuff. Personality traits. Blah. Actually, I don't think I've come across them since then. They're slightly useless. Can't you just figure out the differences/similarities in your head and know them?

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Postby Mathmagic » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:28 pm UTC

RealGrouchy wrote:Frankenstein: love the squareland reference!

I first heard of them (by name, at least) in first-year logic, and like everything else in that class, when I saw them, I was like, "duh!" (and most of the rest of the class struggled like crazy!)

But they are useful for solving stuff, especially in those vague situations where complex words are used. "Wait, if only A is B, but some C are not B, when the hell do I get my chocolate ice cream sandwich?"

- RG>

Yeah, I took first year logic too. 8)

All I can say is I really didn't find anything difficult about them, but the class average reflected the rest of the class' ability to grasp concepts taught in grade 3. :?

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Postby RealGrouchy » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:01 pm UTC

Who the fuck resurrected this old thread?

A pox on you!

- RG>
Jack Saladin wrote:etc., lock'd
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:At least he has the decency to REMOVE THE GAP BETWEEN HIS QUOTES....
Sungura wrote:I don't really miss him. At all. He was pretty grouchy.

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Postby Lani » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:07 pm UTC

I believe this image explains my situation nicely:

Image


(taken from a friend's avatar)
[/url]
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Postby thefiddler » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:10 pm UTC

lani wrote:I believe this image explains my situation nicely:

Image


(taken from a friend's avatar)

Hehehe. That is amazing.

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Postby Oort » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:59 pm UTC

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db ... =523#comic

I needed to post another cool Ven Diagram comic.

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Postby Toeofdoom » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:20 am UTC

hehehe.... thats evil.
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Postby Axolotl » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:16 am UTC

Fluidfox wrote:If they were plotted in three dimensions as overlapping spheres, they would be a more robust tool of communication...

Ok, I have to admit I just felt the need to say "Robust"

Herpes.


Heh. Everyone else seemed to pass that one by, so I just felt the need to add a :lol:

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Postby __Kit » Mon May 14, 2007 8:37 am UTC

We didn't learn them in school...I guess that makes them extra-curricular.
=]

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Postby German Sausage » Mon May 14, 2007 9:25 am UTC

RealGrouchy wrote:Who the fuck resurrected this old thread?

A pox on you!

- RG>

no wonder he's grouchy. here lies a time when RG was happy...
RealGrouchy wrote:Frankenstein: love the squareland reference!

I first heard of them (by name, at least) in first-year logic, and like everything else in that class, when I saw them, I was like, "duh!" (and most of the rest of the class struggled like crazy!)

But they are useful for solving stuff, especially in those vague situations where complex words are used. "Wait, if only A is B, but some C are not B, when the hell do I get my chocolate ice cream sandwich?"

- RG>

or at least not actively grumpy. things have changed since this forum started!
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