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Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:34 pm UTC
by chiisanatantei
Chocolate is poison to many animals, including birds, so would it also kill velociraptors?

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:43 pm UTC
by Charlie!
chiisanatantei wrote:Chocolate is poison to many animals, including birds, so would it also kill velociraptors?

Worth a shot :D

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:58 am UTC
by Diadem
Yes. Even in small quantities, chocolate is quite fatal for a velociraptor. In fact chocolate is such a good velociraptor defence that you need not worry about securing your windows or doors.

* The above post was paid in part by the Velociraptor fund for misinformation *

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:14 am UTC
by poxic
According to one veterinarian's website, theobromine has been "known to affect or kill" house pets, including reptiles.

If the toxicity level is similar for reptiles as for dogs, then it will take about 0.8 ounce of milk chocolate (0.1 ounce of unsweetened) per pound of the animal's weight. Wikipedia states that velociraptors weighed up to 15 kg or 33 lbs. So you could conceivably defend against velociraptors with a security system that forced them to consume at least 1.65 lbs of milk chocolate, or 3.3 ounces of unsweetened (baking) chocolate.

Sounds like you're better off going with the unsweetened chocolate defense. Perhaps your security system can include snack-sized critters laid out as bait, booby-trapped with baking chocolate (up to 8 ounces, to be safe). You'll want the chocolate to be powdered or otherwise prepared for fast digestion, as incapacitation may take hours to develop.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:31 am UTC
by mr-mitch
Chocolate also kills humans, but you need to consume about 10kg.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:12 am UTC
by UniqueScreenname
poxic wrote:According to one veterinarian's website, theobromine has been "known to affect or kill" house pets, including reptiles.

Please don't let anyone in my house learn this. I really don't want them to kill my snake.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:05 am UTC
by chiisanatantei
poxic wrote:According to one veterinarian's website, theobromine has been "known to affect or kill" house pets, including reptiles.

If the toxicity level is similar for reptiles as for dogs, then it will take about 0.8 ounce of milk chocolate (0.1 ounce of unsweetened) per pound of the animal's weight.Wikipedia states that velociraptors weighed up to 15 kg or 33 lbs. So you could conceivably defend against velociraptors with a security system that forced them to consume at least 1.65 lbs of milk chocolate, or 3.3 ounces of unsweetened (baking) chocolate.

Sounds like you're better off going with the unsweetened chocolate defense. Perhaps your security system can include snack-sized critters laid out as bait, booby-trapped with baking chocolate (up to 8 ounces, to be safe). You'll want the chocolate to be powdered or otherwise prepared for fast digestion, as incapacitation may take hours to develop.


Wouldn't you want the toxicity level for birds? Velociraptors are most similar to modern birds, right? I actually heard somewhere that scientists just proved that velociraptors had feathers. It's probably just a really funny rumor, but I like believing it, so I haven't looked it up. XP

Also, 85% dark chocolate (what I eat) should be a pretty good defense then. Provided I figure out a good way to make them eat it. Plus, I would have to make sure they all eat it within a short period of each other, or else they might figure me out...

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:18 am UTC
by yurell
chiisanatantei wrote:Wouldn't you want the toxicity level for birds? Velociraptors are most similar to modern birds, right? I actually heard somewhere that scientists just proved that velociraptors had feathers. It's probably just a really funny rumor, but I like believing it, so I haven't looked it up. XP


Confirmation for you.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:35 am UTC
by thoughtfully
All this talk of feathered raptors makes me think of these birds, second heaviest to ostriches, with a five inch talon on their middle toes, and a mean reputation, although there's only one documented human fatality (guess who started the fight). Still, if I were a mad scientist in that part of the world, I'd have some of these in my menagerie, if not a battle-ready army of them :)

Oh, and if the Wikipedia article is to be believed, they can run at 30 mph.. through dense rainforest! :)

Not really carnivorous, though. Diet of mostly fruit, with the occasional frog/snake/rodent.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:12 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
UniqueScreenname wrote:Please don't let anyone in my house learn this. I really don't want them to kill my snake.
If they want to kill your snake, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of ways that don't involve chocolate.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:31 pm UTC
by Qaanol
Okay, so here’s what we’re going to do. Obviously we can’t guarantee a raptor is going to eat any given chocolate-laced bait prior to killing humans. Therefore, we need to think on a more systemic scale. Here’s the plan.

Everybody has to eat as much chocolate as they can every day. That way everytime a raptor eats a human, it ends up ingesting a significant amount of chocolate. Any given raptor will only be able to eat a small number of people before it succumbs to chocolate overdose. This greatly limits the net danger of raptor attacks.

If we all work together, we’ll all be better protected against raptors. So fill up on chocolate daily. Do it for the human species. Help save everyone from the raptors.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:17 pm UTC
by userxp
gmalivuk wrote:
UniqueScreenname wrote:Please don't let anyone in my house learn this. I really don't want them to kill my snake.
If they want to kill your snake, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of ways that don't involve chocolate.

Similarly, I'm sure there are much better ways to kill a velociraptor too.

Opera wants me to change velociraptor to velocipede. I wonder if you could outrun a velociraptor with a velocipede.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:35 pm UTC
by Jumble
chiisanatantei wrote:Chocolate is poison to many animals, including birds, so would it also kill velociraptors?

I'm afraid my first reaction was that if you mould it into bullet shapes of a suitable calibre, freeze it and then mount it on enough live cartridges I'm sure chocolate will be lethal to velociraptors (and pretty much any other organic species).

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:50 am UTC
by Shivahn
userxp wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
UniqueScreenname wrote:Please don't let anyone in my house learn this. I really don't want them to kill my snake.
If they want to kill your snake, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of ways that don't involve chocolate.

Similarly, I'm sure there are much better ways to kill a velociraptor too.

Given that velociraptors probably weighed about thirty pounds, punching one really hard would probably kill it.

But that is not nearly as tricky as chocolate so I don't recommend it.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:52 am UTC
by Sockmonkey
chiisanatantei wrote:Chocolate is poison to many animals, including birds, so would it also kill velociraptors?

Best first post ever. At least for this forum. :lol:

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:59 am UTC
by poxic
chiisanatantei wrote:Wouldn't you want the toxicity level for birds?

That was harder to find online. Various sources seem to suggest that birds are more susceptible due to lower body weight, not because of being a different sort of animal than a dog (or velociraptor). I stand by my original estimate that was based on the toxicity per pound of body weight of dogs, with a safety margin of at least 2x.

Also, I have heard that there could be more effective means of defense against velociraptors. I would look into these first.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:39 pm UTC
by Gear
Qaanol wrote:Okay, so here’s what we’re going to do. Obviously we can’t guarantee a raptor is going to eat any given chocolate-laced bait prior to killing humans. Therefore, we need to think on a more systemic scale. Here’s the plan.

Everybody has to eat as much chocolate as they can every day. That way everytime a raptor eats a human, it ends up ingesting a significant amount of chocolate. Any given raptor will only be able to eat a small number of people before it succumbs to chocolate overdose. This greatly limits the net danger of raptor attacks.

If we all work together, we’ll all be better protected against raptors. So fill up on chocolate daily. Do it for the human species. Help save everyone from the raptors.


Also, eventually the velociraptors would eventually stop eating humans because of the poison, the same way that birds no longer (often) eat monarch butterflies. A possible problem however is the rate at which humans metabolize theobromine - I'm not sure if it would be possible to constantly eat enough chocolate to maintain raptor toxicity without killing oneself.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:07 pm UTC
by userxp
Gear wrote:Also, eventually the velociraptors would eventually stop eating humans because of the poison, the same way that birds no longer (often) eat monarch butterflies.

Depends. If the velociraptors are intelligent enough to learn from experience, then yes they could stop eating humans in less than one generation. If they aren't, then the only other way their behaviour could change is by natural selection, which means that you should try to wipe them all in one generation - if you don't they're going to develop an immunity to theobromine and keep eating you sooner or later.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:53 pm UTC
by Gear
userxp wrote:
Gear wrote:Also, eventually the velociraptors would eventually stop eating humans because of the poison, the same way that birds no longer (often) eat monarch butterflies.

Depends. If the velociraptors are intelligent enough to learn from experience, then yes they could stop eating humans in less than one generation. If they aren't, then the only other way their behaviour could change is by natural selection, which means that you should try to wipe them all in one generation - if you don't they're going to develop an immunity to theobromine and keep eating you sooner or later.


I thought that in larg-ish part, the threat of velociraptors was their relative intelligence? Therefore, they might well decide there are better/less deadly (and even in non-deadly levels, it might make them sick enough to be a deterrent) foodstuffs.

Also, it would depend on the rate of evolution - I don't know if they would evolve an avoidance instinct or a resistance first. I would guess at avoidance, but I don't actually know.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:30 am UTC
by OP Tipping
Clever girl...

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:13 am UTC
by Minerva
Oh, wait, I know!

If we inject the theobromine into ostrich eggs, and leave them laying around for the velociraptors to eat, that might just work!

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:30 pm UTC
by Sockmonkey
Gear wrote:I thought that in larg-ish part, the threat of velociraptors was their relative intelligence? Therefore, they might well decide there are better/less deadly (and even in non-deadly levels, it might make them sick enough to be a deterrent) foodstuffs.
Sigh. Raptors weren't really chimp smart like they were in JP. More like ostrich-level smart on a good day.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:42 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
What are you even basing that on? Why ostrich smart and not, say, parrot or raven smart?

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:52 pm UTC
by userxp

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:09 pm UTC
by Qaanol

Free chocolate to the first person who identifies the font in that PDF; payable next time we meet, you know, candy from strangers and all.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:40 pm UTC
by Gear
Sockmonkey wrote:
Gear wrote:I thought that in larg-ish part, the threat of velociraptors was their relative intelligence? Therefore, they might well decide there are better/less deadly (and even in non-deadly levels, it might make them sick enough to be a deterrent) foodstuffs.
Sigh. Raptors weren't really chimp smart like they were in JP. More like ostrich-level smart on a good day.


How smart does something need to be to recognize and avoid foodstuffs that make them sick?

Does anyone have any ostriches they're willing to sacrifice for the sake of science?

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:24 am UTC
by Sockmonkey
Funny thing is, I didn't even bother with Google since every paleontological article I've read in the past also says that.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:59 am UTC
by userxp
Qaanol wrote:

Free chocolate to the first person who identifies the font in that PDF; payable next time we meet, you know, candy from strangers and all.

Berlin Sans Roman

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:53 pm UTC
by Qaanol
Well done.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:30 pm UTC
by chiisanatantei
Well, if birds are smart enough to avoid monarchs, then velociraptors (if their intelligence is comparable to those birds) should be smart enough to avoid toxic humans. I think it would come down to how fast we metabolize the chocolate we consume and if avoidance or immunity would come fist. I would place money on avoidance due to the behavior of birds avoiding poison bugs. Anyone care to look up how long a human could stay toxic?

Also, thanks for confirming the feathers for me. ^_^ That made my day.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 am UTC
by Sockmonkey
IIRC it's the therobromine that does it, which is also found in coffee to various degrees. I'm probably raptor-poison already, being a hardcore java-head.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:42 pm UTC
by thoughtfully
Caffeine and theobromide are very similar chemicals. Caffeine is also toxic in sufficient quantities.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:42 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
Except I'm pretty sure avoiding bright coloring isn't a learned behavior so much as an evolved one. As in, birds that didn't avoid it didn't pass on their genes.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:54 pm UTC
by Krealr
gmalivuk wrote:Except I'm pretty sure avoiding bright coloring isn't a learned behavior so much as an evolved one. As in, birds that didn't avoid it didn't pass on their genes.


So we need to eat chocolate AND wear bright clothing?

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:59 pm UTC
by Quizatzhaderac
On that subject of the mythical 'raptor (tall as a man, smart as a chimp, scaly, knows no fear):

They would refuse to eat chocolate (or anything without blood). You might be able to trick them into eating a few grams, but not the 1 oz per pound body weight described above. That's like a person accidentally eating ten pounds of mud at once.

As for the actual (30 pounds and feathery) velociraptors:

I'd say they probably don't have a sweet tooth. If they would eat the chocolate there's still some chance that they'd be acclimated to theobromide somehow (finding it distasteful or being able to metabolize it like us).

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:28 pm UTC
by chenille
gmalivuk wrote:Except I'm pretty sure avoiding bright coloring isn't a learned behavior so much as an evolved one. As in, birds that didn't avoid it didn't pass on their genes.

Maybe in part, but birds do try to eat monarch butterflies and learn from experience that it's not a good idea. There is a classic photo of a vomiting blue jay, for instance on this page, used to illustrate the first part of this; I vaguely remember a follow-up shot of the same bird leaving another one alone, but I couldn't find it.

Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:32 am UTC
by poxic
I have no idea why I thought it would be a good idea to look at a picture of a vomiting blue jay. I suppose I can now say I've seen one. Go me.