## alternative mathematics

For the discussion of math. Duh.

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kumarevo
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:02 pm UTC

### alternative mathematics

Two axiom of mathematics - M.S. mathematics

NATURAL MATHEMATICS

Natural axiom
-along the natural
q1.png (122 Bytes) Viewed 4392 times

-Point is the beginning (end) longer natural
q2.png (3.84 KiB) Viewed 4392 times

-Natural longer connecting points(c)
q3.png (8.35 KiB) Viewed 4392 times

- there is always the starting point(A)
q4.png (858 Bytes) Viewed 4392 times

-Natural along the base length
points are marked (A,B,C,D,E,...)
natural mark along AB

MS.A-Natural along

MS.B-point
Last edited by kumarevo on Fri May 27, 2011 2:59 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

kumarevo
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### Re: alternative mathematics

theorem-Natural longer joining the initial point (A)

Cx-mark for the cycle (finite, infinite). Cycle is the process of proving theorems.

Ca AB-AB-(A-A)-A(B,C)
read: the first along the natural AB connects to second natural long AB , merging is done in point (A) first natural long and the point (A) second natural longer,is the renaming of points that neither would the same labels for points,result of the merger is based on primary links A(B,C)
Cb A(B,C)-AB-(A-A)-A(B,C,D)
Cc A(B,C,D)-AB-(A-A)-A(B,C,D,E)
Cd ....
primary links : A(B,C) , A(B,C,D) , A (B,C,D,E) , A(B,C,D,E,F) , ...

Last edited by kumarevo on Fri May 27, 2011 4:11 pm UTC, edited 8 times in total.

lightvector
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Based on the pattern, I'm guessing there's a error in the diagram, a missing line between A and D on the left half of Cb.

Other than that, I don't get it. All this seems to be expressing is some sort of distributive property, with some additional completely unexplained terminology.

314man
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Mathematics is also about communication. It's great if you discover something, but you also have to show that it makes sense to other people.
If you think you found something new and amazing (I doubt it... but still), try to communicate it clearly. This looks like gibberish to me, even after reading it a few times (including the previous locked thread).

Jyrki
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Agree. Alternative math looks like something written by a squirrel on LSD, so either explain your point or shut up. Getting the first thread locked up was supposed to be a hint.

Tirian
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### Re: alternative mathematics

lightvector wrote:Based on the pattern, I'm guessing there's a error in the diagram, a missing line between A and D on the left half of Cb.

Other than that, I don't get it. All this seems to be expressing is some sort of distributive property, with some additional completely unexplained terminology.

Perhaps he's changed it, but there is a line underneath A and D that would represent that connection.

I'm annoyed at the lack of verbs in the axioms, but this would seem to be a system of propositional logic (or perhaps it's to become fuzzy logic if that's what the arcs in the previous post were intended to represent). Using more conventional notation, Cb seems to be an axiom stating that from the truth of [imath]A\rightarrow B\wedge C[/imath] and [imath]A\rightarrow D[/imath] that we may infer [imath]A\rightarrow B\wedge C\wedge D[/imath] and that similar rules of inference apply for different numbers of consequents, and he may be furthermore implying from the first post that there is a proposition that is always true.

gmalivuk
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### Re: alternative mathematics

I can't make heads or tails of the OP, and I suspect I'm not alone.

But even if I could, I really really doubt it's something that can't already be expressed in standard mathematics. So kumarevo should just learn more real mathematics before deciding they've created something new and useful.
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kumarevo
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### Re: alternative mathematics

MS-my initials and last names

theorem:Natural longer and primary links are connected at any point

step d-disturbing any of the primary link or along the natural
step e-disturbing any of the primary link or along the natural , choose a point of merger, complete a merger (step d)
step f-disturbing any of the primary link or along the natural , choose a point of merger, complete a merger (step e)
step g...
example:

Ca A(B,C)-AB-(C-A)-A(B,C),CD
Cb A(B,C),CD-A(B,C,D)-(A-A)-A(B,C,E,F,G),CD
Cc A(B,C,E,F,G),CD-AB-(C-A)-A(B,C,E,F,G),C(D,H)
Cd ...

MS.D - line
Last edited by kumarevo on Fri May 27, 2011 4:19 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

Yesila
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### Re: alternative mathematics

kumarevo wrote:[b]Natural axiom: Natural along. ....

Two questions to start with.... is "Natural" a verb,noun, adjective,...etc? I can't tell if that word is telling us to do something, or if it's telling us something that we do something to, or...

and then "along" what? or is along another new word you're defining.

undecim
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Oh, its this guy again... From this and his previous thread, he seems to have poor English and is using diagrams to communicate better... I'll take a look at these diagrams and see if I can understand them.

alright, this first diagram seems analogous to logical imply. A->B, and A->C, so A->B^C. Simple enough

Diagram two, let's see... What?
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kalakuja
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### Re: alternative mathematics

I've heard rumours of a math professor that once proved something significant and then went mad and keeps posting about theorems that don't make sense or are just false. Urban myth?

mr-mitch
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### Re: alternative mathematics

The second image made sense (by itself). It seemed to be a graphical representation of functional dependencies.

The third image contradicts the second one, with the first operation on the third image giving a different value than the last operation on the second image. So I can only assume those two representations are equal, and thus you're just mentioning ways of joining lines together and the labels are meaningless.

What is your first language? Can you communicate in that?

Darrell88
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### Re: alternative mathematics

kumarevo wrote:Natural axiom: Natural along. Point is the beginning (end) longer natural. Natural along with 2 points. Natural along the base length. Natural longer connecting points. There is always the first point (A).
MS.A-Natural along . Point .

What does Natural along mean? Give us a clear and simple example of how we can say something is Natural along. And are the points you use actual points like in geometry or nodes like in a binary tree? And also explain concisely what Natural longer means and could there be a "natural shorter"?

It's highly probable that you need a better translator instead of Google translator or that you're a fraud who's gonna sell us a book full of gibberish to make \$1M.

kumarevo
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### Re: alternative mathematics

theorem:line consists of natural longer points in the direction AB

Ca AB-AB-(B-A)-ABC
Cb ABC-AB-(C-A)-ABCD
Cc ABCD-.AB-(D-A)-ABCDE
Cd ...

MS.E-along
Last edited by kumarevo on Fri May 27, 2011 4:33 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

Dark Avorian
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### Re: alternative mathematics

I am going to repeat what everyone else has said. Please explain this in words or you are being incredibly unhelpful. Diagrams are not clear...at all. AT ALL. You have lines connecting letters. Do you realize how unclear that is. That could represent any of the following

Lattice Diagrams
Vectors
Functions on Arbitrary yet small sets
Geometry between point
Graph Theory
Linking elements in a set with equivalence relationships
Binary operators on a set

More

And this is coming from a junior in High School with a decent curiosity in math.

Moreover, please note that almost every single phrase you have posted hear is incomprehensible. You aren't even posting valid sentences or obeying any of the rules set as standard in english grammar.
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Ddanndt
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### Re: alternative mathematics

I'm a sceptic but if you think you've found something quite significant, then publish it on arXiv.org http://arxiv.org/. It's " an archive for electronic preprints of scientific papers in the fields of mathematics, physics, astronomy, computer science, quantitative biology and statistics". Maybe you'll reach a bigger and more knowledgeable audience
God does not care about our mathematical difficulties — He integrates empirically.
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undecim
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### Re: alternative mathematics

We have some problems with communication. OP says that he's using Google Translate, but that appears to be doing a less than ideal job of translating his ideas.

(hint: Translation tends to work better when only simple sentences are being translated)

@kumarevo: Please communicate using standard mathematical expressions. Show how this "alternative mathematics" resembles "standard mathematics"

Is "A____B" similar to "A + B"?
Blue, blue, blue

achan1058
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Ddanndt wrote:I'm a sceptic but if you think you've found something quite significant, then publish it on arXiv.org http://arxiv.org/. It's " an archive for electronic preprints of scientific papers in the fields of mathematics, physics, astronomy, computer science, quantitative biology and statistics". Maybe you'll reach a bigger and more knowledgeable audience
Please don't tell him to do that. I don't want arxiv to be polluted with stuff that I am not going to read. It's a serious business there after all, with many profs and grads reading the articles to see whether there's anything interesting.

B.Good
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### Re: alternative mathematics

achan1058 wrote:
Ddanndt wrote:I'm a sceptic but if you think you've found something quite significant, then publish it on arXiv.org http://arxiv.org/. It's " an archive for electronic preprints of scientific papers in the fields of mathematics, physics, astronomy, computer science, quantitative biology and statistics". Maybe you'll reach a bigger and more knowledgeable audience
Please don't tell him to do that. I don't want arxiv to be polluted with stuff that I am not going to read. It's a serious business there after all, with many profs and grads reading the articles to see whether there's anything interesting.

Don't worry, not everything sent to arxiv is published.

Sizik
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### Re: alternative mathematics

I think it'd be better to get someone who is fluent in English and Serbian (which I assume is the OP's native language) to translate, instead of the OP using google translate.
she/they
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Sizik wrote:I think it'd be better to get someone who is fluent in English and Serbian (which I assume is the OP's native language) to translate, instead of the OP using google translate.

That sounds like way more effort than it's worth.
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ST47
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### Re: alternative mathematics

undecim wrote:My reactions to this thread:

Oh, its this guy again... From this and his previous thread, he seems to have poor English and is using diagrams to communicate worse

Fixed that for you.

kalakuja wrote:I've heard rumours of a math professor that once proved something significant and then went mad and keeps posting about theorems that don't make sense or are just false. Urban myth?

Every person with a degree in mathematics?

Dopefish
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Maybe just post one axiom/theorem in serbian and then let someone capable translate just that piece. If it looks like it's not nonsense, then expanding from there might be worthwhile. I very much doubt it will be however.

314man
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### Re: alternative mathematics

My background is serbian actually. My serbian is pretty shaky though because I was born in Canada and it took a backseat to english. I have lots of friends that are more fluent than me so I can let them translate through my account. Just need the OP to post it in serbian and I'll post the translated version asap

phlip
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### Re: alternative mathematics

314man wrote:My background is serbian actually. My serbian is pretty shaky though because I was born in Canada and it took a backseat to english. I have lots of friends that are more fluent than me so I can let them translate through my account. Just need the OP to post it in serbian and I'll post the translated version asap

Neat. Perhaps you should post this in serbain too, in case they're having as much trouble understanding us as we are them...

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314man
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Translation

Natural Axiom: Natural line. The beginning (end) of a natural line is a point. The natural line has two points. The natural line is the base of length. The natural lines are connected with points. There is always the first point (A).

Remark: I call it a natural line, because I first do the natural mathematics.

I'm going to use the existing symbols for the current mathematics. For the new terms (or ideas), I'm going to use my own symbols. Capital letters for points, the small letters and symbols (). *
Symbol (A) represents the first point, symbol W represents every other point except (A).
Cw is the symbol for cycle (finite, infinite), w- can be any small letter. Cycles is a process proving a theorem.

-------------------

* I think he missed a word somewhere over here. The second part of the sentence is literally "the small letters and symbols ()."
The serbian wasn't that great either, but I think it's clearer than what we started with

themandotcom
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### Re: alternative mathematics

I still have no idea what this guy is even driving at. Did he just create a line?
e^pi*i=WHAT??

Sizik
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Here's my interpretation:
kumarevo wrote:Natural axiom: Natural along. Point is the beginning (end) longer natural. Natural along with 2 points. Natural along the base length. Natural longer connecting points. There is always the first point (A).
MS.A-Natural along . Point .

Will use the tags as the current math, the new things I will bring in your tags.
Tags: Capital letters of the alphabet points. Lowercase letters of the alphabet. and ().,
Tag (A) is always present, mark (W) are used all the letters except (A).
Cw-labels for cycles (finite, infinite). w-any letter of the alphabet starting with a. The cycle is the process of proving theorems.

You've got what are essentially line segments of unit length, which go from point A to point W (where W is any non-A letter).

kumarevo wrote: theorem-Natural longer |MS.A|joining the initial point (A)

Ca AB..AC..A(B,C) ..- connecting points, A(B,C)-Natural longer AB AC are connected to point A
Cc A(B,C,D)..AE..A(B,C,D,E)
Cd ....

You can combine different line segments by connecting them at point A.

kumarevo wrote:after 5 -10 theorem will be much clearer to you my of thinking

theorem:Natural longer | MS.A |and primary links |MS.B | are connected at any point

Ca A(B,C,D)..AE..A(B,C,D),CE
Cb A(B,C,D),CE..A(B,C)..(F,G)A(B,C,D),CE
Cc (F,G)A(B,C,D),CE..A(B,C)..(F,G)A(B,C,D),CE(I,J)
C.....

MS.C - line

You can also connect them at any point. It becomes evident here that his point labels don't refer to specific points, but are there to distinguish different points in the same connected region (I'll call these graphs) from each other. For example, in cycle Cb, the B and C in the bottom graph are not the same B and C as in the top graph. If a point's label in one graph conflicts with one already in the other graph, it changes when the graphs are connected. It would probably make more sense if the labels weren't there.

kumarevo wrote:google translator-serbian (prirodna duž - natural along (English))

If the translation is bad, then watch the pictures (I guess you will understand the essence)

theorem:line|MS.C| consists of natural longer|MS.A| points in the direction AB

Ca AB..AB..ABC
Cb ABC..AB..ABCD
Cc ABCD..AB..ABCDE
Cd ...

MS.D-along

You can add line segments together to form longer ones.
she/they
gmalivuk wrote:
King Author wrote:If space (rather, distance) is an illusion, it'd be possible for one meta-me to experience both body's sensory inputs.
Yes. And if wishes were horses, wishing wells would fill up very quickly with drowned horses.

kumarevo
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### Re: alternative mathematics

[/size]
Theorem- points along (infinite) ABCD .... replace the signs (0), (0.1), (0,1,2), (0,1,2,3 ),...

m7.png (2.84 KiB) Viewed 5054 times

Ca N(0)={0,00,000,0000,...}
Cb N(0,1)={0,1,10,11,100,101,...}
Cc N(0,1,2)={0,1,2,10,11,12,100,...}
....
Cj N(0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9)={0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,...}
....
-number 0 represents the start point of 0
-number 1 represents the distance between the starting point 0 and last point of a 1
-number 2 represents the distance between the starting point 0 and last point of a 2
-number 3 represents the distance between the starting point 0 and last point of a 3
...
MS.F-number along

MS.G-basic set natural number-N

MS.H-starting point number

MS.I.-last point number
Last edited by kumarevo on Sat May 28, 2011 10:15 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

skeptical scientist
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### Re: alternative mathematics

There's no actual mathematics going on here, only notation.
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gorcee
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### Re: alternative mathematics

skeptical scientist wrote:There's no actual mathematics going on here, only notation.

Yeah. I, too, can claim some groundbreaking discovery and then choose some absurd nomenclature and notation to make my findings completely incomprehensible.

We've given the OP a fighting chance. Can this be locked now?

Dason
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### Re: alternative mathematics

skeptical scientist wrote:There's no actual mathematics going on here, only notation.

Not just notation. Notation done in a poor and confusing manner. I've been wondering why this hasn't been locked for a while. We gave them a shot but it really doesn't look like this is going anywhere.
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kumarevo
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### Re: alternative mathematics

theorem-point number has

m8.png (1.63 KiB) Viewed 5007 times

Ca Number 4=(.0,1,2,3,4) ,starting point-0 , last point-4
MS.1-points number
Last edited by kumarevo on Sat May 28, 2011 10:17 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

gmalivuk
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Dason wrote:
skeptical scientist wrote:There's no actual mathematics going on here, only notation.

Not just notation. Notation done in a poor and confusing manner. I've been wondering why this hasn't been locked for a while. We gave them a shot but it really doesn't look like this is going anywhere.
Honestly, because it's easier to just ignore one thread than to deal with someone who is mostly harmless apart from their insistence to constantly start new threads about whatever it is they believe they've figured out.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
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kumarevo
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### Re: alternative mathematics

theorem:Item points number turned upside down

m9.png (2.76 KiB) Viewed 4879 times

Ca Number 4=(s.0,1,2,3,4) , 0-opposite starting number , 4-opposite last number

MS.2 - opposite points number

MS.3 - opposite starting point number

MS.4 -opposite last point number
Last edited by kumarevo on Sat May 28, 2011 10:21 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

themandotcom
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Every single post of yours makes *absolutely* *no* *sense*, kumarevo. We can't read your mind, so make sensical graphics & arguments, or please stop posting.
e^pi*i=WHAT??

kumarevo
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### Re: alternative mathematics

themandotcom wrote:Every single post of yours makes *absolutely* *no* *sense*, kumarevo. We can't read your mind, so make sensical graphics & arguments, or please stop posting.

for their education (12 years) in mathematics and physics I had the best grades.
Since this is a completely different approach to math, I believe you that you can not connect things, the new thing at first difficult to comprehend, eventually you may realize, I spent five years thinking that I would come to this.

gmalivuk
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### Re: alternative mathematics

kumarevo wrote:for their education (12 years) in mathematics and physics I had the best grades.
That doesn't matter. You claim this is new math, so good grades for a few years doesn't mean this new stuff you're making up is sensible.

Since this is a completely different approach to math, I believe you that you can not connect things
No, it is not *our* fault we can't understand what you're talking about. Your posts are incomprehensible, and that is *your* fault.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
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Dopefish
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### Re: alternative mathematics

There might be some underlying valid math to what your doing somewhere (although it doesn't seem to be doing anything more than introducing strange notation for pre-existing mathematical ideas), and I don't think I've seen anything overtly wrong from what I have been able to decipher.

However, being able to communicate that math is very important, and your grammar is horrible. It isn't a matter of the mathematical concepts being so abstract/new that we can't comprehend it, it's that we can't get past the english to get at the math in the first place.

I suspect if there was a perfect English translation of everything you've done here then a number of us would quickly be able to go "oh, that's just a convoluted way of expressing these pre-existing ideas." or "Good try, but you have an error in your working when you try this step", or even "Wow, you've totally revolutionised math! You should win a number of prestigious awards for this work!". However, as things are now, you might as well be talking to yourself, since no one can really understand you.

(That said, a link to his full work in Serbian has been provided, so perhaps if there's any capable Serbian speaking mathematicians around they could look it over and let us know if there's anything to it.)

Ddanndt
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### Re: alternative mathematics

Or maybe if he showed us a simple application of his maths in everyday life ( or even how to solve the original problem he posted in his earlier closed thread) maybe people would understand.
God does not care about our mathematical difficulties — He integrates empirically.
—Albert Einstein