lorb wrote:Please don't just say my statements are wrong.
I didn't "just say" they are wrong. I've explained why I think so, and you haven't yet addressed the main point I've raised.
At least tell me why you think the example I gave is not an example of experiencing gravity. I don't understand from your answers why you think that.
Because I don't think that and I've never said that.
What I did
say, is that your example misses my point. I fully admit that you can experience this narrow and specific form of gravity. But this isn't true for other forms of gravity, nor is it true for the vast majority of the physical entities in the world.
We can't see the electrons inside an atom, either.
Also do you think that it is in principle possible to falsify the current theory in gravity?
Why wouldn't it be possible? I don't really understand the question. Nor do I understand what relevance it has to the discussion at hand.
PsiCubed wrote:But I still maintain that the axiom of infinity correlates much more directly with our senses, than the notion of the earth moving around the sun. The fact that numbers never end is so freaking obvious that most children deduce it on their own.
If that is so, what sensory input would falsify the axiom of infinity? (See link above)
You can't falsify an axiom.
You can, however, falsify theories regarding the way an axiom relates to the real world.
For example, if I added an apple to a row of four apples and didn't get five apples, that would falsify the notion that the set we intuitively call "the counting numbers" is infinite.
PsiCubed wrote:Just because stuff isn't always behaving the same way doesn't mean you can't observe it. Sure it's hard to get a really good understanding on gravity just by looking at the world, but that's what science does. Collect a lot of empirical data and try deduce some laws from it.
My point is that you can't even begin this process without - first - bringing some sort of mathematical model into the mix.
Sure, you don't need mathematics to observe that a thrown stone always falls down. Yes, there are certain limited aspects of gravity which are directly observable. But the statement that "every mass attracts every other mass" isn't one of them.
By the way, if you are using "children can deduce this on their own" as a test: while they may very often be able to deduce that numbers (theoretically
) go on forever after one has educated them one what numbers are and how they work, even more children figure out that stuff falls down on their own without even anyone needing to tell them. Even 3 year olds that can't count to 5 have a primitive concept of gravity.
True. But their concept of gravity is limited to the "it makes things fall down" notion. And this doesn't really change when they become older.
Every school physics teacher knows that human intuition is basically Aristotelian rather than Newtonian. It's one of the major challenges of teaching classical physics in high school.
There is also absolutely no requirement to understand something in order to experience it. I can have 0 knowledge about electricity, and still get burned badly by it. Even if you think the force that makes the earth go round the sun, and the force that makes things fall down are totally different things, they both impact your senses a lot more than any math could ever do.
But without mathematics, the force that makes the earth go around the sun doesn't seem "attractive". It seems to be pulling the earth sideways.
Only once we introduce the Newtonian concept of force and do (at least some primitive verson of) some calculus, we can sort that one out.